My Experience On the Anabolic Diet Part II

Nutrition
121

[quote]bulgarian wrote:
now bcaa’s are essential and i think should be taken. Especially leucine. My bcaa’s infact contain 4:1:1 ratio of leucine,valene and isoleucine. From my understanding, bcaa’s especially leucine stimulate insulin release significantly even more so than carbohydrates. The thing is though the insulin will shuttle the nutritents in your muscles, in our case amino acids but since the bcaa’s are not actually brocken down in sugar, our blood sugar drops and we feel drowsy for a bit or really exhausted.

That is how i felt after following what DH posted above. It lasts only about half an hour. We are not actually switching back to carbs here we are just stimulating insulin release through a different mechanism. I saw great results when i followed the above ratios, i only do that when im cutting down for a show though. When i eat 4500 calories i get plenty of everything from my foods.

That is my understanding, not very scientific but you guys can chime in and correct me if i have something mistaken[/quote]

So during W/O use maybe 1-2 scoops L-leucine and 30-45 min after the W/O have whey?

122

Max, I think I kind of mentioned this in one of our PM’s. You don’t have to NOT COUNT, but don’t let numbers tell you how you feel.

Let your body tell you what feels good and such, while merely using the numbers as a separated observation, relating the feelings/experience to data.

As for this PWO stuff, the first thing I think reading DH’s post is that frequently using that amount of BCAA is absurdly expensive. For that reason alone, I’d prefer to buy my maltodextrin and dextrose in bulk, 20lbs for the same price that would yield me about 5 of those servings of BCAA.

123

[quote]bkmacky9288 wrote:
bulgarian wrote:
now bcaa’s are essential and i think should be taken. Especially leucine. My bcaa’s infact contain 4:1:1 ratio of leucine,valene and isoleucine. From my understanding, bcaa’s especially leucine stimulate insulin release significantly even more so than carbohydrates. The thing is though the insulin will shuttle the nutritents in your muscles, in our case amino acids but since the bcaa’s are not actually brocken down in sugar, our blood sugar drops and we feel drowsy for a bit or really exhausted.

That is how i felt after following what DH posted above. It lasts only about half an hour. We are not actually switching back to carbs here we are just stimulating insulin release through a different mechanism. I saw great results when i followed the above ratios, i only do that when im cutting down for a show though. When i eat 4500 calories i get plenty of everything from my foods.

That is my understanding, not very scientific but you guys can chime in and correct me if i have something mistaken

So during W/O use maybe 1-2 scoops L-leucine and 30-45 min after the W/O have whey?
[/quote]

yeah have 20-30g of leucine or bcaa’s during workout if your are leaning out and having sub maintenance calories. And then have 50g of whey 30-45 min post workout. 1-1.5 hours after the sahke, have a solid meal of fat and protein. Only if your cutting though. If your having an abundance of calories dont waste your money on supplements body knows what to do

124

[quote]bulgarian wrote:
bkmacky9288 wrote:
bulgarian wrote:
now bcaa’s are essential and i think should be taken. Especially leucine. My bcaa’s infact contain 4:1:1 ratio of leucine,valene and isoleucine. From my understanding, bcaa’s especially leucine stimulate insulin release significantly even more so than carbohydrates. The thing is though the insulin will shuttle the nutritents in your muscles, in our case amino acids but since the bcaa’s are not actually brocken down in sugar, our blood sugar drops and we feel drowsy for a bit or really exhausted.

That is how i felt after following what DH posted above. It lasts only about half an hour. We are not actually switching back to carbs here we are just stimulating insulin release through a different mechanism. I saw great results when i followed the above ratios, i only do that when im cutting down for a show though. When i eat 4500 calories i get plenty of everything from my foods.

That is my understanding, not very scientific but you guys can chime in and correct me if i have something mistaken

So during W/O use maybe 1-2 scoops L-leucine and 30-45 min after the W/O have whey?

yeah have 20-30g of leucine or bcaa’s during workout if your are leaning out and having sub maintenance calories. And then have 50g of whey 30-45 min post workout. 1-1.5 hours after the sahke, have a solid meal of fat and protein. Only if your cutting though. If your having an abundance of calories dont waste your money on supplements body knows what to do
[/quote]

wow that’s quite against what Im use to…but when Im done with the velocity diet (half way into week 1 of transition)I’m going to start my second 12 induction phase and give no powders a try. I wanna stick with maintenance up until September so I like that advice. So does my college-esque size wallet.

125

Do you guys supplement with anything on your carb-up days? I remember reading about r-ALA on the part 1 thread and that it slows digestion or absorption? Would it benefit?

126

alright…so I’ve gone back to the good ol’ days and started reading, from the beginning, that first triumphant thread…and I’m gonna jump back on the AD train…after next week. Still have to finish my final week of transitioning off the V-diet. Ugh I can’t wait to start downing lbs of meat again.

I believe we should perhaps post logs like the old vets used to do. Or just nice recipes, this could add more food to the menu to some AD’ers. Also, perhaps sticky links to any low-carb/anabolic diet studies and what not

127

[quote]phatkins187 wrote:
Do you guys supplement with anything on your carb-up days? I remember reading about r-ALA on the part 1 thread and that it slows digestion or absorption? Would it benefit?[/quote]

r-ALA helps to raise insulin sensitivity preferentially in muscle. I take 300mg with every meal or just take 150mg every 3 hours throughout the carb-up. I find it to also help with the bloating from glycogen.
really intensive self-experimentation w/bg monitor.

www.steroidology.com/forum/anabolic-steroids-bodybuilding-articles/741-r-ala-vs-racemic-ala-case-study-fonz.html

Summary: r-ALA is a very powerful tool in glucose uptake and disposal.

Random AD Recipe:

  1. cheese burger:

2 cheese singles (the kraft cheese product kind)
Hamburger patty (ground beef + 1 egg + flax)
lettuce
mustard/salsa

  • Nuke the cheese singles on a sheet of parchment paper for 30-45 secs. It will puff up and dry out and become stiff.
  • mix the ground beef, egg and falx and pan-fry/grill till cooked to your liking.
  • Then its just a matter of assembling your favorite burger, using the nuked singles as ‘bread’. Go nuts…add bacon, mayo, spices etc.
    CHO counts for processed cheese singles ranges between 1 to 4gm a slice, so choose carefully…Pres. choice rounds work well for those in Canada)
  1. chocolate cake (I’m not kidding)

2 Tbl of unsweetened Cocoa powder
1/2 Tsp of baking powder
1 Egg
Equivalent of 2 Tbl of sweetener, wet or dry, doesn’t matter

  • Mix dry ingredients together with a fork.
  • Crack the egg on top. Beat until yolk and white are pretty well blended.
  • If you use a dry form of sweetener (like splenda) you’ll probably need to add 1 Tbl of water, cream, oil, something like that. If you used a syrup sweetener, like Da Vinci/Torani, you can most likely skip that.
  • Microwave for about 1 minute. Until just set up, you don’t want to overcook!
  • for a gooey centre, nix the baking powder and drop a teaspoon on butter with some 99% lindt into the middle, before microwaving*
128

I want to know more about the preparation of this chocolate cake, Evil.

129

Hey guys, I’d like to request the shedding of light upon something I’ve never fully grasped regarding carb-restricted diets because in the words of Chris Shugart, I’m an idiot.

So, as I understand from the AD, your insulin sensitivity INCREASES because intake of CHO is less frequent, and it’s only logical.

However, I’ve read from several places (I think Question of Strength with Poliquin mentioned this) that restricted carb diets DECREASE insulin sensitivity, but I’m not exactly sure why. The logical deduction in my mind is that CHO is no longer a prominent part of the diet and insulin doesn’t get its ‘exercise’? Suffice to say, this particular notion doesn’t make complete sense to me.

In addition to where ever else I read it, I just read something in JB’s Getting Unshredded article:

[quote]4) Exaggerated Insulin Response

Lower carbohydrate diets can lead to short-term insulin insensitivity in the face of higher carbohydrate intakes. Now, that’s not such a big deal while still on the lower carb diet. After all, insulin sensitivity doesn’t have to be so good when carbs are restricted. But, when you start eating carbs again, this exaggerated insulin response can be a problem.

Oh, it’s not so bad for the first day or two of higher carbohydrate intake. The depleted liver and muscle glycogen stores will greedily gobble up those carbs. But remember, although the carbs are being gobbled up by the muscles and liver, there’s still an exaggerated insulin response. And with high insulin comes a reduction in fat mobilization and oxidation.

So even while the muscles and liver are filling up, there’s an anti-lipolitic effect. And once those glycogen stores fill up, if the carbs aren’t introduced slowly and the insulin controlled, fat gain can be rapid.[/quote]

He says insulin sensitivity is temporarily decreased? Yet, when returning to normal CHO intake, the insulin sensitivity is way elevated. Does this have anything to do with the empty liver/muscle glycogen stores? What I’m deducing is that insulin sensitivity is LOWER because the glucose goes STRAIGHT to its open sites to replenish glycogen without ‘hanging around’ in the blood too long. Now, the insulin sensitivity is HIGH (which makes logical sense in the first place) when normal CHO intake is present because the glycogen stores are filled and blood glucose functions as it “normally” would.

Could any of you provide a critique of my thought process, corrections, elaborations, etc.? I’d just like to get this physiological aspect sorted out.

EDIT: By the way, one more quick question, does sodium have ANYTHING to do with actual adipose tissue (formation, reduction) or is it merely related to water in smoothing out your physique?

130

Any disadvantage to starting carb-up Friday morning - Sat Night then back to PF on Sunday?

I think i could get better carbs and more cals this way + I train in Friday morning so I could start carb up with PWO…

Thanks.

131

everything can be individualized so go for it!! As for AD’ers with a lactose intolerancy I suggest buying aged cheddar. The fermentation it goes through kills the lactase and also the cultures that are added further the natural process. One cheese i found, Cabot’s Naturally aged cheddar, says under the nutrition label 0g lactose per serv. I’m gonna give it a shot when I start my induction phase on the 13th to make getting fats in easir…not to mention tastier :slight_smile:

In order to get an abundance of fat in I plan on counting everything, carbs of course duh, but add cheese to most meals but not count it. See how that goes progress wise. My first go at the AD was nice…I constantly underate though because I was a FFB noob who was scared. However, now that I’m 10-11%BF I want to get big, and in DH words HYUGE!..but even while undereating and being a half slob on carb ups I still maintained weight. This go around however I know will be better as I’m actually going to share everything here once I start food logs, grocery list, whatever measurements I happen to take.

132

Can anyone tell me the truth behind bacon and eggs. I am finding that there are vast discrepancies on the nutritional information for eggs and bacon. At the grocery store a pack of no-name bacon says it 0 carbs but brand name products say there is 1 gram per piece of bacon.

The same goes for eggs…If I look up nutritional information for eggs online it says there are 0-0.5 carbs but some brands say there is 1 gram per egg. On fitday.com a thick piece of bacon is 6g Fat 4g Protein and 0g Carbs. The pack of thick cut bacon I bought says it has 1g of carbs and 18g of Fat per piece…this is 3 times the amount reported by fit day and other websites. Do bacon and eggs lose their carbs when cooked?

In the anabolic diet book it recommends eating 4 eggs and 4 pieces of bacon for breakfast but this is 8g of carbs by some calculations which is a lot when you are eating 6 or more meals a day like I am.

133

I think I can shed at least some light on the topic.

For eggs, I’m pretty sure the actual carb count is TYPICALLY (eggs are, after all, different sizes) around .5g carbohydrate. The nutrition labels more often than not round their numbers up (unless we’re talking about trans fats in which they always seem to round them down…Hm, how interesting!)

For bacon, it’s cured with a bunch of different things depending on what kind you get. In the meat itself, there would be no CHO. The carbs would come from the curing which normally involves at least some sugar (why is there sugar in my mayo!?). As for fat, this is even more individual than eggs with CHO, I’d say. Every cut of bacon is vastly different in thickness and leanness, even within the same package. During my stint with bacon I remember most of my pieces being 51+% fat, but at least once I had a package where there seemed to be no fat at all!

Also, even within the same package (I know there are differing thicknesses sold) there are variances in thickness. Some slices I’d straight up be able to see through and would have cooked in about one minute, while others would be 3x the thickness of that paper-thin cut (again, within the same package).

For your counting purposes, I would recommend picking a logical point in the middle. If a million sources tell you it’s 5g and 100 tell you it’s 4g, then maybe you’d count more around 4.75 (for example). Just get it so you’re covering your bases and not cheating yourself.

134

Here’s my grocery list starting in a week:

Beans-black, kidney, pinto, navy, lima(buy in bulk dried saving for carb up)
fatty bacon-pancetta, prosciutto
2lb brick of aged cheddar and some feta
lb olives
1 eggplant
1lb wild rice(for carb up)
pumpkin seeds
whole chia seeds
3 Hass Avocados
EVCO&EVOO&Nut Oils(in big tins)
One of every frozen veggie
shiitake mushrooms-love 'em in eggs, stuffed burgers, salads
kale
apricot(carb up)
mixed berries-(1/4-1/2 serv during weekdays, all day on carbups)
org. 100% cacao
cinnamon
1 lb oats-carb up
Some bulk whole grain cereal(carbup)
almond milk(carbup)
now when it comes to meat I’m thinking I’ll buy a 1/2lb of everything!
walnuts, almonds, cashews, macadamian, brazil,pecans, pistacios, pumpkin,sunflower(make a giant container of mixed nuts)
1lb golden flax
1lb quinoa (carbup)
3 tomatoes
High fiber wraps
salsa
hot sauce
Bunch of fruits for carb up

Now of course this isn’t weekly some of these will last a month or two…and yea the more sugary everyday foods like the berries I’ll prob have them 2 or 3 times (1/4 serv) during the induction phase. After that my carb-ups will be based around 1-2 serv of lowGI carb (quinoa, beans, oats, etc.) with fruit making up the rest.

135

[quote]bkmacky9288 wrote:
fatty bacon-pancetta, prosciutto
[/quote]
When using this, try it with 1 tsp of a flavored vinegar during the last 15 sec of frying. balances the saltiness.

One word: TAPENADE!!! lather it over meats. Also search out: chimichurri.

Why only for carb-ups? The unsweetened one is about 2gm per cup if I remember correctly, and it makes wonderfully thick protein shakes

2 tbsp ground flax with 1 scoop powdered eggs/whey and 1 cup water.
Let it stand and add in cinnamon etc for a oatmeal substitute.

136

aw wow mucho thanks! never saw the potential in my grocery list besides some nice spiced up meats and bacon and eggs!

137

I keep seeing people using Balsamic Vinegar on the AD. How do they get away with this when most brands I checked out have 5 carbs per TBSP? I can’t imagine using so little vinegar, as I love it.

138

[quote]esk221 wrote:
I keep seeing people using Balsamic Vinegar on the AD. How do they get away with this when most brands I checked out have 5 carbs per TBSP? I can’t imagine using so little vinegar, as I love it.[/quote]

5 Carbs per TBSP?? wow…the ones I’ve seen run about 1gm/tbsp. you sure you aren’t looking at a balsamic glaze? Anyway, I use natural appple cider vinegar and wine vinegars only. But after you’ve been on for a while 1-2 gm over the limit occasionally ain’t gonna hurt you.

139

Yeah man, some of them even have a decent amount of sugar. I stick to Red Wine vinegar as well.

140

I have a question that’s been bugging me today. Do total calories matter during the week on the AD like they do on non-ketogenic diets like the UD 2.0, get shredded, or the like? It seems that many of these diets restrict to calories around 1,400-1,700 on low days while the AD doesn’t set the calories as low on a cut (12X’s bodyweight so for me ~2,200).

I’ve heard repeatedly that calories DO matter on the AD as much as any diet but would I see similar fat loss with ~500 more daily calories than non-ketogenic approaches?

It seems refeed/carb up days have similar purposes on keto/non-keto diets to promote anabolism, restore regular hormone levels, and ease the psychological effects of the diet. Just thinking out loud here…