My Experience On the Anabolic Diet Part II

Nutrition
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EVERYONE JUST A REMINDER AD IS NOT A KETOGENIC DIET!!!Nor is it a diet it’s a lifestle… I think everyone new should be required to read all of DH’s posts on the original AD thread.

Phatkins, start with the 12x’sBW for cutting. Then assess and change if needed. Thats the same for every diet. The carb-load here is for constructing a better hormone profile mainly. And duh calories matter on the AD the thing is that you can get away with more on the AD. This whole way of living has turned into a game of telephone…all noobs do yourself a favor and read all DH’s posts. EVERYTHING has been covered there.

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The AD isn’t a ketogenic diet? The idea behind low carb diets is to induce ketosis and use fat for fuel. While Di Pasquale may not have explicitly stated this (as he’s trying to differentiate himself from Dr. Atkins and others), that’s the idea of the low-carb week.

[quote]bkmacky9288 wrote:
And duh calories matter on the AD the thing is that you can get away with more on the AD. This whole way of living has turned into a game of telephone…all noobs do yourself a favor and read all DH’s posts. EVERYTHING has been covered there. [/quote]

What do you mean by getting away with more on the AD? Calories matter right so if by more you mean more calories, that’s contradictory. I read through most of the first thread and I’m just trying to get some perspective comparing the AD method (high fat/mod protein/low-no carb) with other low-carb diets.

I’ll leave the thread to the elites I suppose!

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To take what I’m pulling form the original as an attack…I just get a little too into my habits and take offense easily…sorry :)…anyways yes on the AD you can get away with a little more calories because of how your manipulating your body to use the fuel your giving it. Think of it this way…when you work out you burn calories…by eating this denser food (fat=9cals) it takes more energy to break that down…now this is a super-oversimplification since there are many scientific explanations that DH and other old Vets have uncovered and shared. Just sayin. Take this diet all the way or leave it! It’s a hell of a ride and makes life and learning about your own body easy(as i believe the Velocity diet also does…I’m finishing up my last week myself)

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other methods of low-carb diets, btw, do (mostly) rely on ketogenics. The AD is a lifestyle, it will work for every sort of cycle. And its low carb w/out the ketones. So its just (in my opinion plus many others) the best way of eating.

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[quote]phatkins187 wrote:
The AD isn’t a ketogenic diet? The idea behind low carb diets is to induce ketosis and use fat for fuel. While Di Pasquale may not have explicitly stated this (as he’s trying to differentiate himself from Dr. Atkins and others), that’s the idea of the low-carb week.
[/quote]

Nope. If you read the book, the good doc mentions that Ketosis is thoroughly catabolic. He also mentions that while you will may enter ketosis in the beginning weeks, the time spent in it decreases and ketosis becomes transient at best.
The idea of the low-carb week is to increase the production of IGF-1, HGH, Testosterone and Glucagon. These four together are important for creating an optimal environment for muscular hypertrophy and fat loss.

[quote]
What do you mean by getting away with more on the AD? Calories matter right so if by more you mean more calories, that’s contradictory. I read through most of the first thread and I’m just trying to get some perspective comparing the AD method (high fat/mod protein/low-no carb) with other low-carb diets.

I’ll leave the thread to the elites I suppose![/quote]

You can get away with more, because, the AD uses metabolic pathways that are energy expensive. Protein metabolism is only 20%-30% efficient and Triglyceride break-down is also energy expensive since not all the the stored amount can be used for energy.eg: you breakdown 9 calories but can use only 6-7 of them.

The Cori cycle (during exercise) is also very energy wasting, it takes 6 ATP to generate 2 ATP of energy. So your workouts are more calorically draining as well. This cycle gets bypassed on diets with carbs peri-workout because the liver has ready stores of glucose from external sources.

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Evil1 I really appreciate the scientific back-up! Its too bad that this thread doesn’t have a life like the old one use to. Well as soon as I jump back on(this upcoming Monday)Im gonna post my induction experience and everything.

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Thanks for all the info guys…I’m a fairly cerebral person and have become a lot more sensitive to the possibility of catabolism after working very hard in the gym (which is why I’m exploring options for a cut)!

I’ve decided to give the AD a try with different types of sub-maintenance calorie weekdays and a 12 hour carb-up/refeed on the weekend. I’ve had two 70/30 F/P days starting yesterday and I’m going to probably do two days with slightly higher protein but keep the carbs <30g throughout (until Sunday).

I’m currently following a 3X’s a week total body routine followed by ~20 min of walking on incline and would like to incorporate some cardio on my off days. Is HIIT a good method on the AD or should I stick to more NEPA?

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[quote]phatkins187 wrote:
Thanks for all the info guys…I’m a fairly cerebral person and have become a lot more sensitive to the possibility of catabolism after working very hard in the gym (which is why I’m exploring options for a cut)!

I’ve decided to give the AD a try with different types of sub-maintenance calorie weekdays and a 12 hour carb-up/refeed on the weekend. I’ve had two 70/30 F/P days starting yesterday and I’m going to probably do two days with slightly higher protein but keep the carbs <30g throughout (until Sunday).

I’m currently following a 3X’s a week total body routine followed by ~20 min of walking on incline and would like to incorporate some cardio on my off days. Is HIIT a good method on the AD or should I stick to more NEPA?[/quote]

Don’t mess with the ratios too much. It’s ok to experiment but give the basic plan a genuine attempt before changing/modifying the % ages too much.

Depending on whom you ask, HIIT on low-carbs is great or it’s stupid.
The fact is, HIIT AND muscle mass use Glycogen, which is in short supply, during the week. So if you do too much HIIT, your workout may suffer a little (bad for strength athletes/PL’ers or bodybuilders on split routines)

On a split routine, giving each bodypart equal work is important. So adding HIIT mid-week would decrease energy available for body part s coming after HIIT.
This ‘balance n symmetry’ problem should not arise on a TBT routine, you are giving the same effort to each bodypart each time so you could add in HIIT toward the end of the week.

Go over to the Figure Athlete forums and search through Jen Heath’s articles. There is one called 'Training on Low Carb Diet" and it gives examples of a split and a TBT plan for maximizing fat loss.
Search for an article titled “training on a Low carb Diet” by Jen Heath. It should be in the Figure Athlete archives.

I should add that, your training does not HAVE to change on the AD. you could stay with what you have right now, and do just fine. These are tweaks you can use when you have a specific goals(competition, wedding, the beach etc)

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About the training, in the oriinal thread many touted loosing fat while on strength programs. Consequently, these individuals also gained LBM. So basically just take any W/O here on T-Nation and your set!

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[quote]Evil1 wrote:

Go over to the Figure Athlete forums and search through Jen Heath’s articles. There is one called 'Training on Low Carb Diet" and it gives examples of a split and a TBT plan for maximizing fat loss.
Search for an article titled “training on a Low carb Diet” by Jen Heath. It should be in the Figure Athlete archives.
[/quote]

Cool, thanks for yet another good resource. Jen even talks about a weekend carb-up! I did Atkins once and the concept is completely foreign in that realm of low-carb dieting. I’m probably going to try the fat loss blitz between 4/20 - 5/20 right before a trip to Vegas so go for the depletion (hi rep) exercises. I’ve done low rep/high weight for such a long time I’ll probably be dripping blood, sweat, and tears!

The cardio portion is sort of ambiguous so I’ll go ahead and do my HIIT because she never explicitly says “Don’t do HIIT.”

I’m starting to realize that losing muscle mass isn’t as big a concern as it should be if I eat enough protein and work just as hard in the gym.

Does anyone have anecdotal experience that can shed some light on the difference between a 12, 24, and 36-hour weekend carb-up? For example, to maximize fat loss would a shorter duration refeed be smart?

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Hey guys!

Well my first weekend carb up went okay. I didnt count calories, just ate lots of clean carbs (and a few donuts), on Sat& Sun, and just watched my bloating levels! I wasnt too strict on fat intake which was my only mistake, but otherwise, I enjoyed pancakes for breakfast with apple sauce!! :slight_smile:

My first gym session (post carb-up) was yesterday, and I could certainly feel more of a pump and drive in my endurance levels.

On a good note, my energy levels have definitely gone up this week (week 3 on AD), and Im noticing a significant difference waking up in the morning! (did my first 6am start in ages yestrday, without feeling like crap!), and also feeling good throughout the day!. Im pushing to do 6am starts for the next 30days, and track my energy levels.

This to me was ONE BIG reason to get onto the AD- to have more energy, and elevated endurance throughout the day!

However…Ive hit a small injury snag (pulled a muscle near the groin), which is not hampering, but needs attention. My Physio at the gym told me to pack myself in ice, and I should only do Upper Body work for at least a week.

So I wanted to ask about what adjustments should be made on the AD during times when you aren’t hitting the gym very hard… (in my case no Lower Body work), or if you decide to rest from the gym completely for a while (ie 1week+)???..

Cheers
~M~

(ps- Bulgarian, where are you dude?!?)

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I would suggest curtailing your calories proportionally to your exercise. If your goal is to cut body fat, you should:

  1. eat sub-maintenance calories
  2. strive to build muscle (and thus burn fat)

The age old adage is to eat more on your workout days so keep that in mind. For example, I’m on a ~1900 kcal per day diet for my non-lifting days which is 5-600 below maintenance and up near 2,300 kcal (still in a deficit) when I lift for PWO nutrition.

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[quote]phatkins187 wrote:
Evil1 wrote:

Go over to the Figure Athlete forums and search through Jen Heath’s articles. There is one called 'Training on Low Carb Diet" and it gives examples of a split and a TBT plan for maximizing fat loss.
Search for an article titled “training on a Low carb Diet” by Jen Heath. It should be in the Figure Athlete archives.

Cool, thanks for yet another good resource. Jen even talks about a weekend carb-up! I did Atkins once and the concept is completely foreign in that realm of low-carb dieting. I’m probably going to try the fat loss blitz between 4/20 - 5/20 right before a trip to Vegas so go for the depletion (hi rep) exercises. I’ve done low rep/high weight for such a long time I’ll probably be dripping blood, sweat, and tears!

The cardio portion is sort of ambiguous so I’ll go ahead and do my HIIT because she never explicitly says “Don’t do HIIT.”

I’m starting to realize that losing muscle mass isn’t as big a concern as it should be if I eat enough protein and work just as hard in the gym.

Does anyone have anecdotal experience that can shed some light on the difference between a 12, 24, and 36-hour weekend carb-up? For example, to maximize fat loss would a shorter duration refeed be smart?[/quote]

There’s no definite answer for this…many have lost fat using each time-frame. The coolest part of this diet, second to the food choices, is that you learn what works for you. Nothing is set in stone you have to learn what works. Some people found they didn’t lose weight until they ate massive on their loads. Sorry, just like getting nice results, there is no quick fix…stick with the 36 hours window and eat 60% of however many calories your getting in as carbs.

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[quote]Max888 wrote:
Hey guys!

Well my first weekend carb up went okay. I didnt count calories, just ate lots of clean carbs (and a few donuts), on Sat& Sun, and just watched my bloating levels! I wasnt too strict on fat intake which was my only mistake, but otherwise, I enjoyed pancakes for breakfast with apple sauce!! :slight_smile:

My first gym session (post carb-up) was yesterday, and I could certainly feel more of a pump and drive in my endurance levels.

On a good note, my energy levels have definitely gone up this week (week 3 on AD), and Im noticing a significant difference waking up in the morning! (did my first 6am start in ages yestrday, without feeling like crap!), and also feeling good throughout the day!. Im pushing to do 6am starts for the next 30days, and track my energy levels.

This to me was ONE BIG reason to get onto the AD- to have more energy, and elevated endurance throughout the day!

However…Ive hit a small injury snag (pulled a muscle near the groin), which is not hampering, but needs attention. My Physio at the gym told me to pack myself in ice, and I should only do Upper Body work for at least a week.

So I wanted to ask about what adjustments should be made on the AD during times when you aren’t hitting the gym very hard… (in my case no Lower Body work), or if you decide to rest from the gym completely for a while (ie 1week+)???..

Cheers
~M~

(ps- Bulgarian, where are you dude?!?)[/quote]

What I would do is keep cals a maintenance as suggested and wave cals according to if its workout day or not. You should include some NEPA walks or some light AR (active recovery)days for your pulled muscle. It’s been said time and time again that you should work the nagging muscle enough to let it know how to fdo its job and the work and food you take in will help heal it faster. I’d keep the carb-up to one day this week around though.

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From the original thread, and book, regarding protein on weekends:

Just thought I’d share this quote from the Anabolic Solution (Anabolic Diet) Ebook about eating less protein on the weekend:

“Studies have shown that protein utilization after relative protein restriction rebounds to higher levels than was present prior to the restriction. Studies have also shown that in times of protein depletion, the body likely conserves muscle protein and increases the burning of fat stores for energy. This adaptation is usually lost when body fat stores near exhaustion.”

Just thought I’d point that out to those of you who think you need LOTS of protein on the weekend :wink:

Even though it says the percentage of protein should be between 15-30 percent, Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale says that he has seen great results from Anabolic Dieters taking in only 7-10% of daily calories of protein on the weekend.

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Ok so just listened to a Justin Harris interview and he was talkin how on a carb load, you need a transport for the carb to glycogen stores…sodium! So I’d say add salt to carbs and drink between meals. He goes on to say that the salt takes the water from beneath the skin to transport to the muscles…so perhaps people who ‘smooth out’ over the course of 2 carb meals…I’d suggest try taking in some sodium and see how it affects that.

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[quote]bkmacky9288 wrote:
Ok so just listened to a Justin Harris interview and he was talkin how on a carb load, you need a transport for the carb to glycogen stores…sodium! So I’d say add salt to carbs and drink between meals. He goes on to say that the salt takes the water from beneath the skin to transport to the muscles…so perhaps people who ‘smooth out’ over the course of 2 carb meals…I’d suggest try taking in some sodium and see how it affects that. [/quote]

That’s easy to do on a carb load considering tons of high GI carbs are salty. Crackers, pizza, cookies, etc.

In terms of water, if you are hydrated during the week you probably don’t need to drink a lot of water during your carb load. The reason being, any water that’s beneath the skin or stored in fat cells will be pulled away during glycogen update by the muscles (from carbs and transported via sodium). It also can make carb loads uncomfortable because water fills up the stomach.

I’ve seen differing views on the carb up. Di Pasquale’s ebook says only eat the alloted calories on your 36 hour carb up but anecdotal (previous AD thread) and other pros have suggested eating until you’re full, which can lead to a calorie surplus to shock the body into anabolism, supercompensation of glycogen uptake, and further fat loss the following week.

So the question is eat more calories on carb ups or not?

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I’m on day 10 right now and I’m already through my ‘Wall’ and I can feel the difference. So ready for my carb day(s) because going 10 through this transition is hard enough on it’s own and even harder with out a beer. :smiley:

As far as ‘How many calories on the carb days’ I am not sure. I know the micro nutrients have to be, but not how many calories. I read Dr. D’s ebook and he says, “They feel puffy and bloated and can even sense the fat coming on. At that point it?s time to stop and go back to restricting the carbohydrates. This point will vary widely from person to person.”

That’s all I have found him saying about this. Since I haven’t been through this part personally I don’t know what to tell you.

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x2 - this tip was given to me by a Poliquin trainer as well. He got it from Harris as well. I’ve tried and the difference in post-carbup condition is pretty great. Although, you have to take into account that you will feel a little more bloated as the salt will pull in more water along with the water already being held due to the glycogen.

Bloat-Reducing: If you are really bloated and want to decrease it, take an epsom salt bath during your carb-up or before going to sleep.

[quote]
I’ve seen differing views on the carb up. Di Pasquale’s ebook says only eat the alloted calories on your 36 hour carb up but anecdotal (previous AD thread) and other pros have suggested eating until you’re full, which can lead to a calorie surplus to shock the body into anabolism, supercompensation of glycogen uptake, and further fat loss the following week.

So the question is eat more calories on carb ups or not?[/quote]

It’s like this:

  1. Same calories = 2 day carb-up
  • If you can control your cravings and caloric intake, then you could possibly go the 48 hours.

OR

  1. Gonzo Calories = 24-36 hours.
  • If you find that once the carbs start you keep shovelling it in like a starved Ethiopian, this is the option for you. Gives 1 day of mental freedom.

FWIW, I like the 24-36 hour set-up just because I start to crave meat and fat half way through carb-ups.

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damn me and my stubborness to finish the last 3 days of the V-Diet. I wanna jump onto the AD train SSOO BAD!