My Experience On the Anabolic Diet Part II

[Max888]

[quote]FFB WannaB wrote:
Max
Just some advice from someone who has been on the AD for about 2 years and has no patience, give it 12 weeks. You are tracking everything way too close, especially your body comp. I know, you sound just like I did early on. I was always on the scale and measuring every spot on me. Spread it out to a week or two, that is often enough to see and make changes without driving yourself crazy obcessing(sp?) over every little detail.

Adaption takes time. The diet works, all diets work if you exercise and have a caloric deficit. The AD is special, you are eating above your maintenance level for your body and exercise level, most diets will make you fat very fast doing that, the AD doesn’t.

I dropped about 25% of my body weight(pure fat) on the AD lifting 3 times per week and doing long walks 5 times per week. If I dropped back on my exercise, which I did for a year, I stopped losing fat, but I never gained a pound and my waist still slowly went down(slowly!!!). When I added 2 short interval sessions to my workout, the fat would fall off. This diet requires effort on your part, but not near as much as other diets.

Right now I am only lifting 2 times per week full body and doing no cardio. I am gaining weight, but my waist is not growing, my belt is my measuring stick, muscle comes on easy too with the AD if that is what you want as well.
Sorry to go off on a rant, but when I am not lazy, the AD works wonders for me. When I am lazy(most of the time), it keeps me from gaining it back, no other diet has ever done that for me.
Give it some time, it is a lifestyle, like you have read hundreds of times before in both the threads. Listen to the advice on here, it is great, but ultimately what works for you will be what works for you, just give the AD a chance(few months) I feel you will appreciate it more at that time.[/quote]

Hey FFB,

Its encouraging to hear your words. It has only been a week, and I know there are things I need to tweak (protein, exercises, fat intake etc), so Im sticking with it. Having all the advice from guys on this thread is invaluable and helps to keep me focused.

The hardest thing is reading all the massive amounts of hype about the AD before you start it! You hear about ‘fat burning’, about ‘energy rushes’, ‘fat adaptation’ and ‘shrinking waists’, and you think this is amazing. So when you get there and your body does the OPPOSITE of all of that…you think “hang on…what the hell am I doing wrong…I followed the good doctor!!!”…

I have faith. I can see the logic of the AD. I understand why it works. I guess I was naive to think I could just follow what DiPasquale preached and it would all perfectly fit into place!!. As Bulgarian said, its all science, and once tweaked correctly over time…it has to work. I like that!!

Will keep you posted!!

Cheers

~M~

[bkmacky9288]

The only thing thats keeping from jumpin back on the AD ( was on for 3 years joined original thread on page like 30 ionno) is Chris Shugarts regards of the AD. Originally a participant, he jumped off for “proper” W/O nutrition. Now, I tried fuel and I’ve never felt so alive in the gm, also I gained a shit load of strength using Berardi’s PN system. And another thing the AD is super expensive! Ya see Im big into grass-fed beef turkey bacon chicken sausage and the rest. Thats all expensive!

But the biggest thing is Workout nutrition. I believe the AD protocol worked out best with the power lifters because of there supp. intake and training style so the whole hormone thing worked fro them best. But if someone can convince this AD retiree to re-enter and drop my Fuel and Recovery then do it! And really I think it’d take up to date info

[Evil1]

…

I am gonna play a little devil’s advocate here and take the stance that you don’t need special workout nutrition as long you eat enough prior to and after your workouts.

My main issue with any PWO protocol (from malt/dext to BCAA to Glutamine) is that it goes completely against the goal of keeping consistently low insulin for 5-6 days. But, I am an all or nothing kind of guy, in that respect.
Also, consider that your body is super sensitive to anything that spikes insulin, so you need way less of a PWO drink to do the job. At that point, normal food will also raise insulin to the same extent making special supplementation unnecessary.

PWO nutrition (IMO) boils down to a combination that will spike insulin to transport protein into muscle cells for recovery. There are no two ways to do this, if you prescribe to the PWO nutrition philosophy.

Surge is a mix of salts for re-hydration, sugars to carry stuff in and MAG-10 amino mix. If you take out the sugars you will still get an insulin rise from the aminos alone. And you can make your rehydration drink with magnesium, potassium, calcium and add in the Vit C for cortisol control.

On the issue of getting faster digesting proteins, I argue, that something like eggs or fish or cottage cheese (part whey) will do be sufficient.

Cost Issue: If you like lean sausage (lol), you can always make your own. you get the casing from a butcher and stuff it with ground meat, spices n salt.

Grass-fed beef: a lot cheaper if you buy like half a cow at once (freeze it or split with someone)

I am not a power-lifter and train using GVT principles.

[nz6stringaxe]

Evil, how do you like GVT? Once I’m done dieting, I’m planning on taking on CT’s OVT since I really liked the idea behind GVT but saw some huge improvements.

I’m inferring you ALWAYS use GVT?? Do you never rotate your training principles/phases? How has this worked out for you?

[Evil1]

[quote]nz6stringaxe wrote:
Evil, how do you like GVT? Once I’m done dieting, I’m planning on taking on CT’s OVT since I really liked the idea behind GVT but saw some huge improvements.

I’m inferring you ALWAYS use GVT?? Do you never rotate your training principles/phases? How has this worked out for you?[/quote]

I started on GVT late last November, but have always done higher volume stuff. Since, After half-assing it for December, I really went all out since January , 09.
I have modified it a bit, in the sense that I still do a 10x10 but with consistently heavier weight.
I super-set the two main exercises with 60 sec rest and the two supplementary ones with 30sec rest.

Sample Chest/Back Day:
10x10
A1) DB Bench (change incline/decline every 2 workouts)
A2) Bent-Over Barbell rows (alternate with pull-downs)
3x10
B1) Decline/Incline/Flat bench Pec Flyes
B2) One Arm rows

Doing this, my legs have really improved (I use front/back squats and leg press w/ RDLs/SLDLs/Lying Leg Curls)
I think I needed more frequent stimulation for chest and shoulders for more growth (just got a little more defined).
I recently switched to a upper/lower split for that purpose but still work legs GVT style.
I do agree that it’s hardly a ‘bodybuilding’ program, in that it’s not the best for ‘sculpting’. It is good for bringing up lagging parts.

I am looking for another program now. I am gravitating towards the Gironda mindset. “Focus on Aesthetics and Sculpting as opposed to strength and functionality”.

Any opinions on it?

[nz6stringaxe]

Scott Abel just put up a good thing on training legs like, last week. The leg extension exercise using a bench blew my mind.

You could look up some other program…y’know I couldn’t even describe it for you. I’ll see if I run across it…

It was basically like, geared towards bringing up lagging parts and detailing everything. It had two major components to it. I never used it, and I can barely remember it, but it should be somewhere in the archives of training within the last year.

As for that mantra, I’m too concerned with putting some meat on my bones before worrying about their shape.

[bulgarian]

[quote]bkmacky9288 wrote:
The only thing thats keeping from jumpin back on the AD ( was on for 3 years joined original thread on page like 30 ionno) is Chris Shugarts regards of the AD. Originally a participant, he jumped off for “proper” W/O nutrition. Now, I tried fuel and I’ve never felt so alive in the gm, also I gained a shit load of strength using Berardi’s PN system. And another thing the AD is super expensive! Ya see Im big into grass-fed beef turkey bacon chicken sausage and the rest. Thats all expensive!

But the biggest thing is Workout nutrition. I believe the AD protocol worked out best with the power lifters because of there supp. intake and training style so the whole hormone thing worked fro them best. But if someone can convince this AD retiree to re-enter and drop my Fuel and Recovery then do it! And really I think it’d take up to date info[/quote]

Actually for me the ad is cheaper, i eat mostly eggs and have shakes with olive oil and whipping cream. I eat 1 steak per day which is like 2.50 so not too much. Charles poliquin has said numerous times that most people do not need more than 50g of carbs per day and he recommends bcaa’s pre and post workout. Large amounts of bcaa’s. I’ve tried that and it made an awesome difference.

Everyone however is different and im not sure how your experience was on the AD. For me, its something i will stick to. When you add the Bcaa’s,glutamine and creatine you do not need anything else.

[B85]

Well, I cheated on my diet today for the first time in twelve weeks. The lack of progress finally took a toll on my mental ability to stay dedicated. I have stuffed myself with an abundance of simple carbohydrates. As a consequence, I feel terrible emotionally and physically.

I’m going to start another induction period tomorrow, with the low carbohydrate period lasting nine days (Thursday-Saturday) and the carbohydrate loading taking place on the tenth day (Sunday).

I’m so confused as to why I hit a plateau. I don’t know if I ran my metabolism into the ground during the weekdays with low calorie intake, or if I was over-feeding on the weekends whilst carbohydrate loading. Clearly, I don’t know as much about the Anabolic Diet as I thought I did, and that’s what worries me.

[quote]Evil1 wrote:
Where are you at right now, body comp wise?
Where do you want to be?
Whats your workout plan like?
Are you getting at least 1gm/lb of protein?
Whats a typical days intake on weekdays? weekends?
Do you go 24 hours or 48 hours on carb-ups?

bwx12 seems kinda low. And I would keep cals high and add in more exercise rather than cut cals first.
[/quote]
I’d say I’m approximately 15% body fat (I’d post a picture and ask your opinion, but whenever that happens on T-Nation people seem to get harshly criticised). I’m still carrying a layer of fat on my lower abdomen and some “love handles”. I wanted to be approximately 10% body fat before bulking.

My workout plan consists of three total body workouts (which are based on Chad Waterbury’s principles) per week. I currently do no cardiovascular exercise (apart from an occasion game of basketball during the week), as I wanted to try and preserve as much LBM as possible. I’m considering doing daily fasted H.I.I.T due to lack of progress, but this is really just out of desperation.

In regards to protein intake, I believe I am getting enough. However, I will take detailed food logs over the next few days and this should provide a clearer picture as to what is going on.

The carbohydrate loading only lasts twelve hours (typically, one whole day). However, the food choices have not been ideal.

[oculus1857]

[quote]phatkins187 wrote:
The initial fat adaptation phase should last 12 days so your first carb up should be the second weekend. Maybe someone more experienced than myself can shed some light on the metabolic shift that is supposed to occur.[/quote]

Thanks for the reply. I will have to go back and check the AD book, but I think you are right. I know it will take 2 to 3 months for my body to full be AD Life Style. I have no problems planning my work and working my plan so I’ll get my food compass set and let you all know how it goes. Good luck with your quest on a new more better you.

B85 - Don’t get to discouraged. I think we have all been there at that point of trying to break the physical plateau. Recalibrate and go forward with confidence. I know words coming from a n00b on the forums here doesn’t seem like much, but I, like so many others here, want nothing but success for all.

[Max888]

[quote]B85 wrote:
Well, I cheated on my diet today for the first time in twelve weeks. The lack of progress finally took a toll on my mental ability to stay dedicated. I have stuffed myself with an abundance of simple carbohydrates. As a consequence, I feel terrible emotionally and physically.

I’m going to start another induction period tomorrow, with the low carbohydrate period lasting nine days (Thursday-Saturday) and the carbohydrate loading taking place on the tenth day (Sunday).

I’m so confused as to why I hit a plateau. I don’t know if I ran my metabolism into the ground during the weekdays with low calorie intake, or if I was over-feeding on the weekends whilst carbohydrate loading. Clearly, I don’t know as much about the Anabolic Diet as I thought I did, and that’s what worries me.

Evil1 wrote:
Where are you at right now, body comp wise?
Where do you want to be?
Whats your workout plan like?
Are you getting at least 1gm/lb of protein?
Whats a typical days intake on weekdays? weekends?
Do you go 24 hours or 48 hours on carb-ups?

bwx12 seems kinda low. And I would keep cals high and add in more exercise rather than cut cals first.

I’d say I’m approximately 15% body fat (I’d post a picture and ask your opinion, but whenever that happens on T-Nation people seem to get harshly criticised). I’m still carrying a layer of fat on my lower abdomen and some “love handles”. I wanted to be approximately 10% body fat before bulking.

My workout plan consists of three total body workouts (which are based on Chad Waterbury’s principles) per week. I currently do no cardiovascular exercise (apart from an occasion game of basketball during the week), as I wanted to try and preserve as much LBM as possible. I’m considering doing daily fasted H.I.I.T due to lack of progress, but this is really just out of desperation.

In regards to protein intake, I believe I am getting enough. However, I will take detailed food logs over the next few days and this should provide a clearer picture as to what is going on.

The carbohydrate loading only lasts twelve hours (typically, one whole day). However, the food choices have not been ideal.[/quote]

Hey B85,

I know you’re worried about putting pics on here and getting criticised. But dont worry about it, most people on this thread are here to support you and share their successful advice.

I was in two minds about posting my pics uptoo…but I did it. I let go of my ego, and realised my health and body were more important then people’s bitching comments.

Besides if anyone rag’s on you…we’ll flame the fucker!! hahaha!!

Good luck man!

~M~

[bulgarian]

[quote]B85 wrote:
Well, I cheated on my diet today for the first time in twelve weeks. The lack of progress finally took a toll on my mental ability to stay dedicated. I have stuffed myself with an abundance of simple carbohydrates. As a consequence, I feel terrible emotionally and physically.

I’m going to start another induction period tomorrow, with the low carbohydrate period lasting nine days (Thursday-Saturday) and the carbohydrate loading taking place on the tenth day (Sunday).

I’m so confused as to why I hit a plateau. I don’t know if I ran my metabolism into the ground during the weekdays with low calorie intake, or if I was over-feeding on the weekends whilst carbohydrate loading. Clearly, I don’t know as much about the Anabolic Diet as I thought I did, and that’s what worries me.

Evil1 wrote:
Where are you at right now, body comp wise?
Where do you want to be?
Whats your workout plan like?
Are you getting at least 1gm/lb of protein?
Whats a typical days intake on weekdays? weekends?
Do you go 24 hours or 48 hours on carb-ups?

bwx12 seems kinda low. And I would keep cals high and add in more exercise rather than cut cals first.

I’d say I’m approximately 15% body fat (I’d post a picture and ask your opinion, but whenever that happens on T-Nation people seem to get harshly criticised). I’m still carrying a layer of fat on my lower abdomen and some “love handles”. I wanted to be approximately 10% body fat before bulking.

My workout plan consists of three total body workouts (which are based on Chad Waterbury’s principles) per week. I currently do no cardiovascular exercise (apart from an occasion game of basketball during the week), as I wanted to try and preserve as much LBM as possible. I’m considering doing daily fasted H.I.I.T due to lack of progress, but this is really just out of desperation.

In regards to protein intake, I believe I am getting enough. However, I will take detailed food logs over the next few days and this should provide a clearer picture as to what is going on.

The carbohydrate loading only lasts twelve hours (typically, one whole day). However, the food choices have not been ideal.[/quote]

For the few times i’ve cheated on the ad in the past year, it was become of overconsumption of stimulants. I found myself at night not wanting to go to bed, i don’t watch much tv and if im not going out, i just wonder in the house and if i really go overboard on the caffeine i even question my progress and end up eating lots and lots of peanut butter. 4 weeks ago i got fed up with this, it would happen once a week and i would cut my carb ups in half to punish myself for it which in turn caused it to repeat.

Dont bother with another induction, 5 days low carbs 2 day carb up. Do not punish yourself like i did it doesnt work. Do the normal ad with 2 days carb up and up your calories a bit for a week or 2 to get your metabolism back in check. Have normal 36hr carb ups but NO JUNK FOOD and post your daily nutrition on the low carb days as well as how your weight changes in before the carb ups. after 2 weeks of consistently eating higher calories and following the ad with 36hr carb ups, we can readjust to fit your goals.

and trust me cut the starvation hiit not a good idea.in fact cut out all the cardio for the next 2 weeks and just observe how your body reacts to the increased calories and the ad regiment you will feel much better both emotionally and physically

[phatkins187]

Yeah Peanut Butter is so delicious…but pretty carby in large amounts! What are some better nut butters with low carb amounts to gorge on?

I’m going to try a shake composed of heavy cream, BP, and casein protein. It sounds good on paper!

[nz6stringaxe]

I’d just like to say that I couldn’t even believe how delicious a glass of heavy cream was until I tried it haha.

Two refeeds ago I remember scouring for food to eat (to make the most of my day) and we have a roommate we hate…who happened to have heavy cream in a little carton. I’m dieting, I don’t have heavy cream! I saw this, and my eyes lit up…

He was unable to find his heavy cream after that. “Who would drink heavy cream??” What a crazy thought, indeed.

[bkmacky9288]

[quote]Evil1 wrote:
…

I am gonna play a little devil’s advocate here and take the stance that you don’t need special workout nutrition as long you eat enough prior to and after your workouts.

My main issue with any PWO protocol (from malt/dext to BCAA to Glutamine) is that it goes completely against the goal of keeping consistently low insulin for 5-6 days. But, I am an all or nothing kind of guy, in that respect.
Also, consider that your body is super sensitive to anything that spikes insulin, so you need way less of a PWO drink to do the job. At that point, normal food will also raise insulin to the same extent making special supplementation unnecessary.

PWO nutrition (IMO) boils down to a combination that will spike insulin to transport protein into muscle cells for recovery. There are no two ways to do this, if you prescribe to the PWO nutrition philosophy.

Surge is a mix of salts for re-hydration, sugars to carry stuff in and MAG-10 amino mix. If you take out the sugars you will still get an insulin rise from the aminos alone. And you can make your rehydration drink with magnesium, potassium, calcium and add in the Vit C for cortisol control.

On the issue of getting faster digesting proteins, I argue, that something like eggs or fish or cottage cheese (part whey) will do be sufficient.

Cost Issue: If you like lean sausage (lol), you can always make your own. you get the casing from a butcher and stuff it with ground meat, spices n salt.

Grass-fed beef: a lot cheaper if you buy like half a cow at once (freeze it or split with someone)

I am not a power-lifter and train using GVT principles.[/quote]

Its not necessarily that its lean its that its healthier…im an ingredients freakazoid! But ya know what if BCAAs work just as well then what would be the right way to go with PWO

[Evil1]

[quote]bkmacky9288 wrote:
Its not necessarily that its lean its that its healthier…im an ingredients freakazoid! But ya know what if BCAAs work just as well then what would be the right way to go with PWO[/quote]

I know exactly what you mean. i tend to think about purchasing any product if it contains more than 3-4 ingredients.

You could just get a CLA supp. I think Flameout already has a bunch in it.

From the research abstracts and discussion I have read, BCAA’s alone have a greater insulin release than carbs alone!!
The difference being that the BCAA release is a single phase release and not biphasal like from carbs. (i have no clue that that means and am trying to find out)

There is a thread somewhere here titled “Low Carb PWO” or something like that. Tons of people gave their input on it including CT and some other low carbers.

Maybe DJS or Bulgarian could shed somelight on this. I dont use anything so I am not the best person to ask.

[bulgarian]

[quote]Evil1 wrote:
bkmacky9288 wrote:
Its not necessarily that its lean its that its healthier…im an ingredients freakazoid! But ya know what if BCAAs work just as well then what would be the right way to go with PWO

I know exactly what you mean. i tend to think about purchasing any product if it contains more than 3-4 ingredients.

You could just get a CLA supp. I think Flameout already has a bunch in it.

From the research abstracts and discussion I have read, BCAA’s alone have a greater insulin release than carbs alone!!
The difference being that the BCAA release is a single phase release and not biphasal like from carbs. (i have no clue that that means and am trying to find out)

There is a thread somewhere here titled “Low Carb PWO” or something like that. Tons of people gave their input on it including CT and some other low carbers.

Maybe DJS or Bulgarian could shed somelight on this. I dont use anything so I am not the best person to ask.[/quote]

This is a quote from DH from the other thread.

"FUN WITH AMINO ACIDS:

This is a little thing I did a few years ago, and greatly enjoyed it. Very good pumps, fast recovery, good growth. Poliquin used similar principles as per conversations with Doc Di Pasquale.

Enjoy my little home brew etc…

Cut your CHO, even PW, if you want to lean up further. Take the following:

1. 35-50g BCAA during workout
2. 40-50g glutamine or glutamine peptides just after workout.
3. 50g of protein with AT MOST 20g of simple CHO at about 45mins post workout. Best option, skip the CHO entirely.

Glutamine will replenish glycogen in place of CHO, BCAA’s will assist and place you in an anabolic state even BEFORE you enter catabolism. Supplies the amino acids your body desires without having to get them from muscle.

Also leucine is a strong insulin stimulator. For us on the Anabolic Diet, the only real benefit to CHO is to cause an insulin surge that drives AA into the muscle for growth/recovery. We can get our glycogen replenishment slowly via diet. Barr points this out in his myths article. Leucine and glutamine will boost insluine and fill glycogen independent of CHO. So BCAA and glutamine will be great options.

Then wait a while and take your protein and (not at all necessary)minimal CHO drink.

Only when you are at your desired level of bodyfat should you use more CHO post workout (IF you must, and most don’t need it). If you are leaning, don’t include CHO post workout. If you are massing and want to avoid as much potential for fat accumulation as possible, then do the same. Otherwise, you can take 50g CHO post workout and keep the rest of your day strict.

Best,
DH"

[bulgarian]

now bcaa’s are essential and i think should be taken. Especially leucine. My bcaa’s infact contain 4:1:1 ratio of leucine,valene and isoleucine. From my understanding, bcaa’s especially leucine stimulate insulin release significantly even more so than carbohydrates. The thing is though the insulin will shuttle the nutritents in your muscles, in our case amino acids but since the bcaa’s are not actually brocken down in sugar, our blood sugar drops and we feel drowsy for a bit or really exhausted.

That is how i felt after following what DH posted above. It lasts only about half an hour. We are not actually switching back to carbs here we are just stimulating insulin release through a different mechanism. I saw great results when i followed the above ratios, i only do that when im cutting down for a show though. When i eat 4500 calories i get plenty of everything from my foods.

That is my understanding, not very scientific but you guys can chime in and correct me if i have something mistaken

[Max888]

Hey guys!,

I coming up to my first carb up on Saturday!!

Ive read quite a bit about how to structure this… 60% carbs, 30% Fat, 10% Protein etc, and am aware I should only eat ‘clean carbs’ - rice, pasta, fruits etc, and avoid the junk as much as possible!!

My only frustration is that I havent had the elusive energy rush from the AD yet. So Im concerned that any energy boost I get on Saturday will be a direct result of the carb-up, and trick me into thinking the AD is now really kicking in. I want to prime myself to run high octane on fat…not the rush of CHO!! So wondering whether to delay the carb-up?

Now DiPasq says not to count the calories during the carb up - just gorge like a mofo until you smooth out, or bloat like a wild boar!!.. any counter to this notion?

Also, any experienced tips on what to do & def not do on the carb up?

Cheers

~M~

[DJS]

[quote]Max888 wrote:
Hey guys!,

I coming up to my first carb up on Saturday!!

Ive read quite a bit about how to structure this… 60% carbs, 30% Fat, 10% Protein etc, and am aware I should only eat ‘clean carbs’ - rice, pasta, fruits etc, and avoid the junk as much as possible!!

My only frustration is that I havent had the elusive energy rush from the AD yet. So Im concerned that any energy boost I get on Saturday will be a direct result of the carb-up, and trick me into thinking the AD is now really kicking in. I want to prime myself to run high octane on fat…not the rush of CHO!! So wondering whether to delay the carb-up?

Now DiPasq says not to count the calories during the carb up - just gorge like a mofo until you smooth out, or bloat like a wild boar!!.. any counter to this notion?

Also, any experienced tips on what to do & def not do on the carb up?

Cheers

~M~[/quote]

Don’t over think it. Everyone is different and it will take you a while to fully fat adapt anyway. I didn’t even crash until day 12 of induction phase. The day before my first carbup i just totally crashed and felt like i had the flu. I could barely see straight. So no crazy energy rush there! Do your carbup and take it from there. No reason to delay it.

[oculus1857]

[quote]
Don’t over think it. Everyone is different and it will take you a while to fully fat adapt anyway. I didn’t even crash until day 12 of induction phase. The day before my first carbup i just totally crashed and felt like i had the flu. I could barely see straight. So no crazy energy rush there! Do your carbup and take it from there. No reason to delay it. [/quote]

Good to know. I am on day 4 right now of the introduction phase so I am heading in the right direction for transition. I haven’t hit the ‘I feel I’m sick’ but I’m sure it’s coming.