My Experience On the Anabolic Diet Part II

Pauli_D · July 27, 2009, 5:06pm

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Sounds good. Yea I noticed Poliquin believes most do well with lower carbs too but I don’t think he has many get rid of carbs entirely or try to become fat adapted (am I wrong about that?). So have you never actually done the AD? [/quote]

As practitioners of Charles’ BioSignature Modulation program, we recommend dietary strategies specifically designed to benefit the client and meet their needs. If the client is fat, has a high subscapular reading and/or a high suprailiac reading then yes, absolutely. The typical recommendation would include a 14 day induction similar to the AD. The client would then be reassessed weekly and adjustments made as necessary.

I have used the AD myself, yes and I have used the AD with certain clients but again, dependent upon the specific needs of the individual.

The AD is a very effective nutritional strategy and it’s a very ‘user-friendly’ program. You can ‘do-it-yourself’ so to speak and it works wonderfully well.

DH1 · July 27, 2009, 5:50pm

Yes. It is so managable and friendly that it is my preferred method with 99% of those I advise. Gironda, Blair, Poliquin, Faigin, Volek, and many others all use similar protocols.

The principles are the same, but the methodologies are somewhat varied. I have no problem endorsing any of the above as great folks to follow to gain muscle and lose/control fat.

But when put side by side, the AD is so social, easy, and effective that it is the “best” if done correctly. My big worry is that many guys like to choke down a gallon of chocolate milk and a dozen Krispy Kremes and continue on.

I’ve done this when I was younger. And I went into the diet pretty lean so I had some insane pumps and little damage. But I realized that this wasnt optimal.

Now I work it like I mentioned above. I put treats in a strategic postion and load up on good stuff that I’ve been craving. For me, I love big traditional meals. Lasagna, breadsticks, corn, mashed taters, green beans, meatloaf and biscuits. I get my salads and veggies, use fish oil and vinegar/lemon and then load up on “dinner” type carbs. Then maybe a treat a little later.

The structure of the diet allows you to have dates, go to weddings, parties, church socials etc… and dig in. This is much easier than doing a meal every 3-5 days or having a CHO bolus around a workout etc…

The “psychology” of the diet makes it very user friendly. You work, train, and keep that focus on the weekdays. Then you let it all out and relax on the weekends.

DH

[quote]Pauli D wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
Sounds good. Yea I noticed Poliquin believes most do well with lower carbs too but I don’t think he has many get rid of carbs entirely or try to become fat adapted (am I wrong about that?). So have you never actually done the AD?

As practitioners of Charles’ BioSignature Modulation program, we recommend dietary strategies specifically designed to benefit the client and meet their needs. If the client is fat, has a high subscapular reading and/or a high suprailiac reading then yes, absolutely. The typical recommendation would include a 14 day induction similar to the AD. The client would then be reassessed weekly and adjustments made as necessary.

I have used the AD myself, yes and I have used the AD with certain clients but again, dependent upon the specific needs of the individual.

The AD is a very effective nutritional strategy and it’s a very ‘user-friendly’ program. You can ‘do-it-yourself’ so to speak and it works wonderfully well.
[/quote]

DH1 · July 27, 2009, 6:06pm

Hey, we can eat whatever we want on the Weekends!

DH1 · July 27, 2009, 6:07pm

Well, PauliD! I had no idea you worked with Charles. Have you personally used his protocol of reducing total workload by 40-60% every third workout for each bodypart? If I understand that correctly.

DH

DH1 · July 27, 2009, 6:14pm

Well, on para-workout nutrition there are a few good ways to go. I’ve hit on what I like on Thib’s Amino Acid pulsing and paraworkout threads.

Hydrolysates are fine and will give a good insulin response. But they are not necessary. I posted a study (or two) comparing insulin response to whey vs its hydrolysate and there is some benefit to hydro, but not enough to make me pay the price.

BCAA are my weapon of choice. I like the bolus that Poliquin recommends (which came from Doc). Take 1/2 about 30-40 mins prior to the workout to allow it to stimulate insuin and begin to create hyperaminoacidemia(say 15-20g) and then take the rest either during or after.

You can take regular whey with this as well, which sometimes help keep blood sugar levels a bit more stable.

Let me see if I can find some of my posts in those theads and I’ll move them over here too.

system · July 27, 2009, 6:42pm

DH, while I know your around let me post my diet for the transition phase Anyone else who has any opinions on it please feel free to comment

I’ll get back to all your comments in a minute, haven’t read them yet.

OK I’m trying to get as close to 35p/5c/60f as possible. I still have to add about 10-15g of fat and I’ll be there.

My main problem is that the veggies are really screwing me with the carbs. without them I’d be at 20g…with them I’m at about 53g and taking the fiber out I’m at 37g. I hear about some guys eating tons of green veggies…I’d only be eating 18oz. a day so I don’t know how they could be under 30g. Should I take some out?

ANABOLIC DIET

Pre-exercise/Upon waking
-Protein powder, 1 scoops (22g): 120 calories, 23g protein, 2g carbs, 2.5g fat

Meal 1
-steak, 3 oz.: 171 calories, 30g protein, 0g carbs, 5.1g fat
-1oz. cooked Bacon: 153 calories, 10.5g protein, 0.4g carbs, 11.9g fat
-Brocolli, 6 oz: 60 calories, 4.8g protein, 11.2g carbs, 0.7g
-Olive Oil, 1.33tbsp: 160 calories, 0g protein, 0g carbs, 18.67g fat
TOTAL: 544 calories, 45.3g protein, 11.6 (7.2) carbs, 36.37g fat

*I don’t even really care to have the bacon here, just adding it since most of the animal sources I’m eating are lean except eggs and I keep hearing I should be eating fattier animal cuts so there it is.

Meal 2
-6 whole eggs: 420 calories, 36g protein, 3.3g carbs, 27g fat
-Brocolli, 6 oz: 60 calories, 4.8g protein, 11.2g carbs, 0.7g
-1tsp Olive Oil: 40 calories, 0g protein, 0g carbs, 4.67g fat
TOTAL: 520 calories, 40.8g protein, 14.5 (10.1)g carbs, 32.37g fat

Meal 3
-Chicken, 5.5 oz: 182calories, 38.5g protein, 0g carbs, 5.5g fat
-Brocolli, 6 oz: 60 calories, 4.8g protein, 11.2g carbs, 0.7g fat
-Olive Oil, 2 tbsp: 240 calories, 0g protein, 0g carbs, 28g fat
TOTAL: 482 calories, 43.3g protein, 11.2 (6.8)g carbs, 34.2g fat

Meal 4
-1/2 can tuna: 62.5 calories, 13.75g protein, 0.5g carbs, 1.25g fat
-50% fat cheese, 1oz.: 70 calories, 8g protein, 0g carbs, 4.5g fat
-Salmon, 3.3oz.: 135 calories, 19.5g protein, 0g carbs, 6g fat
fish oil, 4 pills: 40 calories, 0g protein, 0g carbs, 4.5g fat
-Olive Oil, 1.5tbsp: 180 calories, 0g protein, 0g carbs, 21g fat
TOTAL: 487.5 calories, 41.25g protein, 0.5g carbs, 37.25g fat

Meal 5
-Cottage cheese, 1/2 cup: 100calories, 15g protein, 6g carbs, 1.5g fat
-1 turkey burgers: 160 calories, 19g protein, 0g carbs, 9g fat
-2 tbsp PB: 200 calories, 8g protein, 7g carbs, 16g fat
TOTAL: 460 calories, 42g protein, 13 (10)g carbs, 26.5g fat

TOTALS: 2613.5 calories, 235.65g protein, 52.8(36.6)g carbs, 169.19g fat
36.9% protein 5.7% carbs 57.38% fat

And like I said I’ll be adding another 10-15g of fat

David1991 · July 27, 2009, 9:02pm

Can someone explain this to me:

Last summer I followed a carb cycling approach like that from Christian Thibaudeau’s Carb Cycling Codex. I did this for 6 weeks and had pretty good results, then because I would be living away from my house I switched to a low carb/High fat diet for convenience. I tend to gain fat easily so I thought if nothing else this would help me stay leaner while I was away. Well for 4 weeks everything was high protein and fat except for Pre/Post workout which would be about 100g of carbs added total (maybe a banana before, banana and oatmeal after). During this 4 weeks I gained 2lb, according to my measurements I gained close to 3lb of fat and lost some LBM. I’m guessing the LBM loss was glycogen/water from less carbs since I was gaining strength during this time so I doubt it was muscle…but as I said I gained 2-3lb. of fat in a relatively short time.

Seeing as that was very similar to the AD why did I get such bad results and gain fat? I basically stuck to nuts, protein powder, chicken, cottage cheese, hamburgers, eggs, egg whites, cheese, etc…(high fat/protein) and then like I said peri-workout was 100g of clean carbs and that was 3-4x a week. So what gives? Thanks for the help

Anabolic_Bob · July 27, 2009, 9:13pm

Weekday High A Food/Supplement/Drink Complete Protein Protein Carbohydrates Fat Kcal
Wake-up

Meal 1 1 Tsp Fish Oil 0 0 0 5 45
2 Omega-3 Eggs 14 14 0 8 180
1/2 lb ground lamb 56 56 0 45 639
4 Thin slices Bacon (2-3 Thick) 10 10 0 18 200
3 Fiber Caps

Meal 1 total:		80		80	0	76	1064

Meal 2 6 oz Grass Fed Ground Beef 33 33 0 0 295
2 Tbsp Olive Oil 0 0 0 28 240
1/2 scoop Super Seed 0 3 1 0 40
1 Tsp Fish Oil 0 0 0 5 45

Meal 2 total:		33		36	1	33	620

Meal 3 6 oz Grass Fed Ground Beef 33 33 0 0 295
2 Tbsp Olive Oil 0 0 0 28 240
1/2 scoop Super Seed 0 3 1 0 40

Meal 3 total:		33		36	0	28	575

Meal 4 6 oz Grass Fed Ground Beef 33 33 0 0 295
2 Tbsp Olive Oil 0 0 0 28 240
1/2 scoop Super Seed 0 3 1 0 40
1 Tsp Fish Oil 0 0 0 5 45

Meal 4 total:		33		36	1	33	620

Meal 5 2 scoops WPI 50 50 0 0 200
Pre-Workout 10 g Flax Seeds 0 0 0 4 40
2 Tbsp Heavy Whipping Creme 0 0 0 12 100

Meal 5 total:		50		50	0	16	340

Meal 6 2 scoops WPI 50 50 0 0 200
Post-Workout Apak

Meal 6 total:		50		50	0	0	200

Meal 7 6 oz Grass Fed Beef 32 32 0 21 322
1 oz Cheese 0 7 1 9 113
1 Tbsp Olive Oil 0 0 0 14 120
3 Fiber Caps

Meal 7 total:		32		39	1	44	555

Meal 8 1 Tsp Fish Oil 0 0 0 5 45
2 scoops Casein 50 50 200
2 Tbsp Heavy Whipping Creme 0 0 0 12 100

Meal 8 total:		50		50	0	17	345

Totals 361 377 4 247 4319

kcal

Protein 1508 40%
Carbohydrates 16 0%
Fat 2223 60%
3747 100%

I just pasted this from my spreadsheet, so the formatting might look wonky.

This was from the 12 days where I was getting adapted. Now I have veggies on every solid meal (usually a dark leafy greens like collard greens, Swill Chard, spinach, kale, etc, and another like cauliflower, broccoli, green bell pepper, dandelion, etc. I eat a different combination of 2 each week to keep meals interesting). I don’t count any of the CHO from vegetables, because I’m sure their benefits far outweigh a slight chance of going over 30 g. However, because I don’t count veggies, I limit walnuts and cheese to 1 oz a day each, and leave stuff like ketchup, nut butters, etc, for the weekend.

Should I be counting CHO from vegetables? It’s not like I’m eating carrots or squash.

Also, I get DELICIOUS grass fed beef from a local farmer, and I’m addicted to it. Do you guys think eating 18 - 26 oz a weekday is going overboard? Do I have a cow problem that I need to address? I don’t eat any on weekends most of the time to give myself a break, and every 3rd or 4th week I’ll just do shakes or chicken for a full 7 days instead of steer.

guillaume76 · July 28, 2009, 9:30pm

DH,

You were probably talking about your post in the following thread :

It is clear from your graph that WH peaks amino 20mn later, against 60mn for W.
Said another way, WH peaks amino acid 40mn earlier than standard Whey, and last nearly as long.

I do not see a clear winner though between WH and CH.

Regards,
Guillaume.

EDIT : just did a dirty photoshop work, I moved 3 graph exactly in top of each other, but I traced the line in color with a free hand, so that may not be the more correct graph possible, but it is nice to compare Whey VS Whey Hydrolysate VS Casein Hydrolysate.

At 20mn (roughly) :

CH is at 4750
WH is at 4550 (-200)
W is at 3950 (-800)

(my picture does not seem to show yet, probably awaiting for moderator validation?)

DH1 · July 28, 2009, 5:57pm

yes, G76. I think CH is overhyped compared to WHY. And if you constructively time standard whey and/or BCAA you can get a perfectly acceptable insulin surge (without CHO) and also get the amino peaks as well. All for a much better price too.

I posted quite a bit on the amino pulsing thread.

DH

DH1 · July 28, 2009, 6:18pm

Cut the peanut butter. That will save you some CHO. Also, I don’t like cottage cheese (for me) and cutting it will cut another 6 carbs. There is a savings of 13g.

Also, you may be overestimating your CHO intake from the Broccoli. Subtract the fiber. That will save you 6g CHO in total over your 3 servings. We’ve just removed 19g total from your list.

You are doing fine. “tons” is very subjective. Add some salad too with fresh spinach, romaine lettuce, radishes, red onion, green peppers, banana peppers etc… too.

Don’t just eat broccoli all the time. Throw in some other acceptable veggies too for variety.

DH

Overall you are fine. Just by dropping the cottage cheese or peanut butter you’re down to 30g. And after you adapt you can probably add back in 10g or so of CHO.

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
DH, while I know your around let me post my diet for the transition phase Anyone else who has any opinions on it please feel free to comment