No. Just keep going for the full 12 days. Even 21 is just fine. Just correct your mistake and continue on. A single slip of 15g shouldn’t matter much, if corrected.
DH
[quote]b3ta wrote:
quick question, when you’re on your induction phase, if you happen to go over 25g effectives carbs by about 20g would that mean that you would have to start again?[/quote]
Random here but I’m reading through the original AD thread now and am on page 10. Looking at what “JoeBob” ate…holy crap his meals were insanely huge, one meal had like 140g of fat alone. Even with this crazy amount he went from 205 to 191 before his first carbload. Large 2 day carb up too. Obviously a lot of water and glycogen but still thats pretty crazy. He said his fat was down 2% too but not sure how he measured that.
[quote]DH wrote:
Looks good, bub.
Get some BCAA powder at bulknutrition or superior nutraceuticals. They are very economical. Just add it to crystal lite or better yet a carbonated sugar free drink. Let it set for a bit if you want it to be less chunky.
DH
[/quote]
Do you have a link to which you think is the best quality for the cheapest price? How does it compare to TP?
Do you think it makes a big difference? I’m just really reluctant to spend more money on supplements. If anything maybe once I’m completely used to the AD so I can tell if it makes a difference for me?
[quote]DH wrote:
P340, you can have that extra protein post if you like. No problems. But I like some BCAA (to get PS maximized) with a scoop of whey (or two). We use protein for other processes than just simply maximizing PS. Sometimes its just acceptable calories and/or a glycogen replacement tool.
BCAA will have hyperaminoacidemia in full gear within 30 mins. And they whey will give additional substrate as needed and help allow the FFAs to do their job.
DH
[/quote]
OK but regardless of if I have protein or protein+BCAA your saying I should definitely have one of those PWO in addition to what I listed as my meal plan above? as opposed to just having meal 1 PWO. Again the only reason I was worried/wondering about it is because it brings my protein up another 23g at least (that would be just adding 1 scoop PWO without BCAA or anything) and I didn’t know if that was too much for the starting phase or even in general.
[quote]DH wrote:
At first glance I suspect you may have never depleted your glycogen levels sufficiently to really start burning fat. By getting 100g per day on training days, you’re running the risk of keeping the muscle and liver just filled enough to blunt serious fat burning.
I don’t dig carb cycling as per Justin Harris. Its better than high CHO, but I think it works better for guys who are “on”. Just my opinion.
DH
David1991 wrote:
Can someone explain this to me:
Last summer I followed a carb cycling approach like that from Christian Thibaudeau’s Carb Cycling Codex. I did this for 6 weeks and had pretty good results, then because I would be living away from my house I switched to a low carb/High fat diet for convenience. I tend to gain fat easily so I thought if nothing else this would help me stay leaner while I was away. Well for 4 weeks everything was high protein and fat except for Pre/Post workout which would be about 100g of carbs added total (maybe a banana before, banana and oatmeal after). During this 4 weeks I gained 2lb, according to my measurements I gained close to 3lb of fat and lost some LBM. I’m guessing the LBM loss was glycogen/water from less carbs since I was gaining strength during this time so I doubt it was muscle…but as I said I gained 2-3lb. of fat in a relatively short time.
Seeing as that was very similar to the AD why did I get such bad results and gain fat? I basically stuck to nuts, protein powder, chicken, cottage cheese, hamburgers, eggs, egg whites, cheese, etc…(high fat/protein) and then like I said peri-workout was 100g of clean carbs and that was 3-4x a week. So what gives? Thanks for the help
[/quote]
Yea but why would the results on the TKD be worse than the results from carb cycling? What I’m saying is I was doing carb cycling for 6 weeks which was based on CT’s method but was actually very close to the Troponin method. Fat never gone above about 70g or so. Then I switched the the TKD (basically AD with the carbs around workouts…an AD option really) but I clearly gained significantly more fat even though it was gained at a slow pace with good strength gains. Just really doesn’t make sense to me, especially as a person who gains fat easily (I would think the higher fat, lower carb method placed just around workouts would help me stay leaner) 
I get the “house” brands. And I acutally like superior, bulk, and TP for it.
Just have some whey (at least 25-30g to get 3g or so of Leucine)about 45 mins prior to working out. Then take another hit afterward. This will give whey time to get in and boost aminos during the workout and then allow it to fall a bit so you can get another “hit” thereafter.
This will work fine.
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Random here but I’m reading through the original AD thread now and am on page 10. Looking at what “JoeBob” ate…holy crap his meals were insanely huge, one meal had like 140g of fat alone. Even with this crazy amount he went from 205 to 191 before his first carbload. Large 2 day carb up too. Obviously a lot of water and glycogen but still thats pretty crazy. He said his fat was down 2% too but not sure how he measured that.
DH wrote:
Looks good, bub.
Get some BCAA powder at bulknutrition or superior nutraceuticals. They are very economical. Just add it to crystal lite or better yet a carbonated sugar free drink. Let it set for a bit if you want it to be less chunky.
DH
Do you have a link to which you think is the best quality for the cheapest price? How does it compare to TP?
Do you think it makes a big difference? I’m just really reluctant to spend more money on supplements. If anything maybe once I’m completely used to the AD so I can tell if it makes a difference for me?
DH wrote:
P340, you can have that extra protein post if you like. No problems. But I like some BCAA (to get PS maximized) with a scoop of whey (or two). We use protein for other processes than just simply maximizing PS. Sometimes its just acceptable calories and/or a glycogen replacement tool.
BCAA will have hyperaminoacidemia in full gear within 30 mins. And they whey will give additional substrate as needed and help allow the FFAs to do their job.
DH
OK but regardless of if I have protein or protein+BCAA your saying I should definitely have one of those PWO in addition to what I listed as my meal plan above? as opposed to just having meal 1 PWO. Again the only reason I was worried/wondering about it is because it brings my protein up another 23g at least (that would be just adding 1 scoop PWO without BCAA or anything) and I didn’t know if that was too much for the starting phase or even in general.
[/quote]
David1991, too many variables that I personally was not there to oversee.
Try doing the AD as it should be. Save some CHO througout the day and use about 10-20g post workout if this is what you like to do. Just keep total limits under the AD guidelines.
Give it a good run and then maybe we can help you out as you go.
DH
[quote]DH wrote:
I get the “house” brands. And I acutally like superior, bulk, and TP for it.
Just have some whey (at least 25-30g to get 3g or so of Leucine)about 45 mins prior to working out. Then take another hit afterward. This will give whey time to get in and boost aminos during the workout and then allow it to fall a bit so you can get another “hit” thereafter.
This will work fine.
[/quote]
OK thanks a lot man, so then I should add another protein shake on workout days. Honestly I’m so tempted to start ASAP but considering I gained about 3lb. this week with only 2300 calories I was planning on waiting one more week and then starting on the 10th with the diet mentioned above. You think your gonna be sticking around the forums for awhile? I hope to post some updates throughout the weeks/months.
Probably a bit less in a few weeks. But still about 1-2x per week after August.
DH
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
DH wrote:
I get the “house” brands. And I acutally like superior, bulk, and TP for it.
Just have some whey (at least 25-30g to get 3g or so of Leucine)about 45 mins prior to working out. Then take another hit afterward. This will give whey time to get in and boost aminos during the workout and then allow it to fall a bit so you can get another “hit” thereafter.
This will work fine.
OK thanks a lot man, so then I should add another protein shake on workout days. Honestly I’m so tempted to start ASAP but considering I gained about 3lb. this week with only 2300 calories I was planning on waiting one more week and then starting on the 8-9th with the diet mentioned above. You think your gonna be sticking around the forums for awhile? I hope to post some updates throughout the weeks/months. [/quote]
[quote]DH wrote:
Probably a bit less in a few weeks. But still about 1-2x per week after August.
[/quote]
OK sounds good. I’m expecting it to be smooth sailing but hopefully if something weird happens Trib or another AD vet can help me out, although your obviously the most knowledgeable on the topic. I was actually thinking of starting a “DH how do you train” type thread like they have for some of the biggest guys on here.
Would it be fine to start off with say, 7-8 days of the typical high fat/low carbs and then have the first “carb up” after those 7-8 days, and then go from that point on with 5/2? Or would this be less than optimal? My plan was after the 7-8 days just have a 1 day carb up of 2-300g and then continue with the 5/2 plan from there.
I know it has been mentioned that 5/2 from the beginning is fine but it would take longer to adapt. This would be 7-8/1 (and that 1 being 2-300g) and then 5/2 on from then. If it’s at all worse though let me know because I’m also wondering for future recommendations as well.
edit: IF the 7-8/1 plan is good would you suggest no/little veggies during this time to ensure I’m getting low enough carbs to adapt faster? And then adding more in eventually.
DH
Can you outline your current stats regarding body comp and the pulsing protocol you use?
Cheers
JB
Bout all I can really say is that I can maintain/gain with fewer calories and my muscles stay fuller longer. Also, my recovery is better.
But, I’ve not been able to really hit my workouts as hard as I’d like the last 20 months or so. I look forward to being able to try it during a serious training period.
DH
My pulsing protcol is basically laid out in Thibs threads.
I eat every 4 hours.
I pulse with BCAA between.
8am meal
10am BCAA (10g to get 5g LEU)
12pm meal
2pm BCAA
4pm meal
6pm BCAA/whey
Train 6:30-7:30
8pm BCAA/whey
10pm meal
ha. PauliD, and Trib can help you out for sure. And I don’t know where that old bear Il Cazzo is anymore.
And as far as the “how do you train” threads, well most of my posts probably give an overview.
As you know, Im doing some BBB currently.
And, at the push of my wife, am considering doing a book of sorts on various BB issues.
Maybe…
DH
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
DH wrote:
Probably a bit less in a few weeks. But still about 1-2x per week after August.
OK sounds good. I’m expecting it to be smooth sailing but hopefully if something weird happens Trib or another AD vet can help me out, although your obviously the most knowledgeable on the topic. I was actually thinking of starting a “DH how do you train” type thread like they have for some of the biggest guys on here. [/quote]
its best to go the 12 (and more is fine too). Just to be sure you’ve really depleted your stores and to see how you fare.
DH
[quote]Needmassquick wrote:
Would it be fine to start off with say, 7-8 days of the typical high fat/low carbs and then have the first “carb up” after those 7-8 days, and then go from that point on with 5/2? Or would this be less than optimal? My plan was after the 7-8 days just have a 1 day carb up of 2-300g and then continue with the 5/2 plan from there.
I know it has been mentioned that 5/2 from the beginning is fine but it would take longer to adapt. This would be 7-8/1 (and that 1 being 2-300g) and then 5/2 on from then. If it’s at all worse though let me know because I’m also wondering for future recommendations as well.
edit: IF the 7-8/1 plan is good would you suggest no/little veggies during this time to ensure I’m getting low enough carbs to adapt faster? And then adding more in eventually. [/quote]
[quote]DH wrote:
Bout all I can really say is that I can maintain/gain with fewer calories and my muscles stay fuller longer. Also, my recovery is better.
But, I’ve not been able to really hit my workouts as hard as I’d like the last 20 months or so. I look forward to being able to try it during a serious training period.
DH
My pulsing protcol is basically laid out in Thibs threads.
I eat every 4 hours.
I pulse with BCAA between.
8am meal
10am BCAA (10g to get 5g LEU)
12pm meal
2pm BCAA
4pm meal
6pm BCAA/whey
Train 6:30-7:30
8pm BCAA/whey
10pm meal[/quote]
So only 4 meals/day with roughly 3200 calories? You must be getting close to 50g of fat per meal then right?
Out of curiosity why haven’t you been able to push it the last 20 months?
[quote]DH wrote:
ha. PauliD, and Trib can help you out for sure. And I don’t know where that old bear Il Cazzo is anymore.
And as far as the “how do you train” threads, well most of my posts probably give an overview.
As you know, Im doing some BBB currently.
And, at the push of my wife, am considering doing a book of sorts on various BB issues.
Maybe…
DH
[/quote]
Sounds like a cool idea, I’d read it. Since you’ve had such success with the AD you should include a part with how the various training methods could go along with the it (not that you need to change much for it but still it would be interesting)
Edit: Man I’m just getting through the BBB thread now, both you and Modok had really similar results starting that with the AD. I had no idea your strength shot up that much that’s crazy, with only 1 year experience! What was your weight at the beginning and end of that BBB cycle and was the cycle the full 18 weeks?
After reading through I’m actually considering trying the 6 day first instead of the 4 day. Unfortunately I JUST started 5/3/1 before beginning that thread so it’ll likely be months before I even start to really think about switching to BBB.
[quote]DH wrote:
And, at the push of my wife, am considering doing a book of sorts on various BB issues.
Maybe…
DH
[/quote]
You are an eloquent writer, DH -wise and learned -experienced and educated. Self-publishing is easier than ever these days and a little push (and a few phone calls from a pal or two) and you could garner the attention of more than a few established publishing houses.
I’m backing up the better-half on this one.
Start it…Just start writing it -and see if it just doesn’t have some wings.
I know that it will!
-paul
[quote]DH wrote:
its best to go the 12 (and more is fine too). Just to be sure you’ve really depleted your stores and to see how you fare.
[/quote]
well that sucks. I was really planning on starting tomorrow and going 8 days then only doing the 1 day so it wouldn’t be as big of a deal. Would it help to do a glycogen depletion workout during the 8 days and take away some carbs from vegetables to be even lower in carbs or still no? Or even go another 12 days after that?
Sorry to be so problematic about this, the only reason I’m trying to find a way is because I have a social event after the next 8 days so I figured if I had that as my carb up that would be really good timing.
Is it okay to do sprints/HIIT? Like say 8 intervals of 30sec sprint/1min. walk? I did this last time and didn’t notice an issue but I don’t know if it is really optimal or not.
[quote]DH wrote:
David1991, too many variables that I personally was not there to oversee.
Try doing the AD as it should be. Save some CHO througout the day and use about 10-20g post workout if this is what you like to do. Just keep total limits under the AD guidelines.
Give it a good run and then maybe we can help you out as you go.
DH
[/quote]
Do you guys REALLY feel a difference when consuming 30g of CHO or 50-60g (just from veggies and some berries)?
Once you are fully adapted, then most likely no. There are folks who have to keep CHO as low as 20g during the week though. But you must see how you fare on very low carbs and you need to fully depelete yourself and experience how your body reacts to various food combos (especially on the loads).
After this, many people find hitting 40-50g IF done with high quality veggies/fruit works just as well.
DH
And remember, you can (and should) get lots of vegs and fruits on the loads in addition to your starches etc…
[quote]Philo wrote:
DH wrote:
David1991, too many variables that I personally was not there to oversee.
Try doing the AD as it should be. Save some CHO througout the day and use about 10-20g post workout if this is what you like to do. Just keep total limits under the AD guidelines.
Give it a good run and then maybe we can help you out as you go.
DH
Do you guys REALLY feel a difference when consuming 30g of CHO or 50-60g (just from veggies and some berries)?
[/quote]
P340,
This would be an example of a training day. I usually like to get 5 solids in when I want to gain. 4 to maintain or even slow gain.
And I stagger my fat a bit depending on the time of day. Less as the day goes on. A bit of a smaller spike in the early afternoon before a workout (at least 2 hours before taking your pre-BCAAs.)
so…
8am Meal (50p/70f/5c) @850 cals
10am BCAA (6-10g total) 6g will provide 3g LEU which will allow a VERY significant PS increase.
10am Meal (50p/50f/5c) @650 cals
12pm BCAA (again, 6g will work very well)
2pm Meal (50p/60f/5c) @750 cals
4pm BCAA (6-10g)
6pm Meal (50g/40gf/5c) @575 cals
8pm BCAA (6g)
10pm Meal (50g/10-15gf/2c) @300cals
Counting BCAA toward my daily pro intake would yield about 275-290g pro; 230f; and about 25CHO: @3200 cals.
I don’t need much to grow on. And I get about 4000 on the load days. But at my weight, I’ve never needed huge amounts to grow on. And most people dont need to take in Berardi numbers to grow either. Its about setting up the right environment, and timing your protein pulses to maximize anabolism.
Sheer caloric bulk, while effective, is a primitive tool. It will work but its heavy and cumbersome. People eat large quantities to do two things: maximize PS, minimize breakdown. Well, the AD keeps you from breaking down muscle to fuel the machine because we aren’t CHO burners. Those on a CHO based diet are always a few hours away from the body wanting to steal muscle to provide glucose. We don’t operate that way, making this diet very anti-catabolic with respect to muscle. And catabolic concerning fat. Perfect.
And well timed protein intake will maximize PS. So while taking a sledgehammer (huge caloric surplus) to a thumbtack WILL work, its less elegant than oh, say…a thumb. Ha…ha.
DH