My Experience On the Anabolic Diet Part II

Nutrition
901

Ah. Alessi used to do something similar but for a different reason. Allowing days of white meat consumption to naturally create a caloric deficit without changing overall food volume.

Heres to 60g of turkey at bedtime!

DH

[quote]Pauli D wrote:
DH wrote:

Rotating meat sources? Nothing planned. Budget usually does that! Its been more chicken and less steak for awhile now. Maybe next year if the market stabilizes…

I probably consume about 1/2 my protein as wpc. I cannot eat a large volume of food at once, unless Im loading, so liquid calories are my friend.

I need to hook up with a hunter and get some deer. I actually tried elk for the first time last year and it was OUTSTANDING. Best meat Ive ever eaten.

DH

My experience stems from a component of a Charles Poliquin BioSig program to control cortisol and restore normal hormonal patterns.

The idea is to begin the day with red meats, then gradually switch to white meats by day’s end. Works brilliantly well!

The L-Tyrosine from red meats gets you pretty fired up to start the day keeps you going until evening --by which time you’ve made the switch to white meats and the L-Tryptophan is calming you down and preparing you for a nice restful and recuperative sleep.

Good stuff!

I think the folks who complain about night-sweats might benefit from being mindful of what kind of protein they’re consuming before bed. …It does make a difference!
[/quote]

902

That Pauli D…what a man…

[quote]Pauli D wrote:
pumped340 wrote:

Thats interesting. Where would eggs and fish fall into that?

I have eggs first, then steak, then chicken, then turkey and cottage cheese as my last meal

Fish is definitely a yin protein, meaning it’s a calming protein.
Eggs…I tend to think of eggs as yin as well. Try it for yourself.

Skip the eggs and have a pound of steak for breakfast -assuming you want to grow.
See how you feel.

I’m not much for utensils…always on the go. I purchase most all of my meat ground.
Give it a shot! Nothing like a pound of ground buffalo to get your day started right!

;^)[/quote]

903

[quote]Pauli D wrote:
Zhelezen wrote:
Pauli D wrote:
If it were me (and it often has been), I would train as hard as my recovery will allow while slowly reducing caloric intake over a predetermined period of time. After some trial and error, you will find your ‘sweet spot.’

This ‘sweet spot’ is going to allow you to make gains and progress in the gym while you lose bodyfat.

This is exactly what I’m trying to do at the moment. Gain strength in the gym while slowly lose bodyfat. Gained about 30lbs and some decent strength in the last 6mths or so, but a bit too much chub. Don’t want to get shredded or go on a full on diet, but basically just want to drop a couple of notches on the belt before I chase strength more aggressively again.

Has this been possible for you in the past ?

Actually you should be chasing strength and muscle mass.
And you should ‘chase’ those qualities aggressively.

The stronger you are, the more muscle mass you can potentially build.
The more muscle mass you carry, the more energy you burn at rest -AND work AND ‘play.’
The more energy you burn (ya with me yet?)…the more that energy could potentially come from fat stores.

So unless you’re just a butterball (no offense, jus’ sayin’) -you really should be focused on building strength and muscle mass.

A recent study out of Stanford University found that strength and muscle mass were the two leading indicators for longevity and health.

Build yourself a ‘bigger engine’ that burns more fuel!
[/quote]

I understand what you’re saying. To me strength and mass are one and the same. The only way to gain mass is to get really strong while eating a surplus of calories. However, I have always found strength gains on deficit or maintenance calories to be impossible or very slow at the best. I only seem to gain strength on a shit load of food.

I’m not a butterball, far from it, but the gut has gotten a bit too big for my liking. Building strength is my focus, hence the reason for not going on an all out diet. But I have to realise that while trying to slowly lose a couple of inches off the gut, although I will strive for strength gains, they will be alot harder to come by.

904

Hey ! I am doing the AD to cut for a show right now . ANyway, I am really unsure how to do a peak week coming off of the AD. Has anyone used the AD to get ready for a show before, or had clients use it? How did you do their peak week?!! In the past when i carb cycled for my 1st show, i I just started cutting my carbs everyday, then loading, but with the AD i am not sure what to do ! HELP ! thanks! Would love to hear anyones experiences using the AD for a show!

905

I don’t know how much longer I can do this.

After two years of bulking with eating 400-600g of carbs a day this AD is really testing me.

I’m in week three only. But for the past week I’ve done nothing during the week but think about how much I want carb-foods.

I’m not trying to maintain or lose weight, I’m trying to GAIN.

Thoughts? Advice? Should I save doing the AD for when I am maintaining and/or cutting down?

Ahhhhh!!! Cupcakes! nooooooo

906

[quote]B rocK wrote:
I don’t know how much longer I can do this.

After two years of bulking with eating 400-600g of carbs a day this AD is really testing me.

I’m in week three only. But for the past week I’ve done nothing during the week but think about how much I want carb-foods.

I’m not trying to maintain or lose weight, I’m trying to GAIN.

Thoughts? Advice? Should I save doing the AD for when I am maintaining and/or cutting down?

Ahhhhh!!! Cupcakes! nooooooo[/quote]

Personally I wouldn’t do the AD exactly as outlined if I was looking for the most muscle possible but it’s individual. How did the 4-600g of carbs work for you before and why did you stop?

Regardless, you should probably stick to it for a few more weeks at least and see how you feel.

907

Just curious but what type of reps/sets do you all train with? I was doing a 3-5 sets of 5 reps for a while but am now switching things up to 6+ reps for most things except deadlifts.

908

[quote]B rocK wrote:
I don’t know how much longer I can do this.

After two years of bulking with eating 400-600g of carbs a day this AD is really testing me.

I’m in week three only. But for the past week I’ve done nothing during the week but think about how much I want carb-foods.

I’m not trying to maintain or lose weight, I’m trying to GAIN.

Thoughts? Advice? Should I save doing the AD for when I am maintaining and/or cutting down?

Ahhhhh!!! Cupcakes! nooooooo[/quote]

Don’t give up bro! It does get easier!! ok, every time you think about a carb (ugh!) food, go melt 2oz of cheese on top of 6-7 oz of ground beef. Or just eat some greezy bacon. Damn I love the AD. Sooo tired of cutting though.

909

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
B rocK wrote:
I don’t know how much longer I can do this.

After two years of bulking with eating 400-600g of carbs a day this AD is really testing me.

I’m in week three only. But for the past week I’ve done nothing during the week but think about how much I want carb-foods.

I’m not trying to maintain or lose weight, I’m trying to GAIN.

Thoughts? Advice? Should I save doing the AD for when I am maintaining and/or cutting down?

Ahhhhh!!! Cupcakes! nooooooo

Personally I wouldn’t do the AD exactly as outlined if I was looking for the most muscle possible but it’s individual. How did the 4-600g of carbs work for you before and why did you stop?

Regardless, you should probably stick to it for a few more weeks at least and see how you feel.[/quote]

I gained some good size on all them carbs. 179-210 over about 2yrs. However I really got to the point that any increase in calories and/or carbs and my waist would increase drastically (2").

I also thought/think I have a gluten allergy and wanted to give my body a rest from the massive carb attack.

I’m at about 205-210 right now and want to get to 225-230 be Xmas this year.

I plan to give it another 2 weeks and see how things go. If I decide to stray, I will probably go back to a carb cycling/cheat to lose style diet.

910

The stumbling block for a lot of people is that fat adaptation is not a diet. It’s a permanent change in eating habits. Anything that happens to anybody in the first 3 months can not be understood as indicating how you will be doing in a year. It will take that long at a bare minimum (3 months) and probably longer to fully adapt.

I went from feeling initially like superman for a few weeks, to being dead by Thursday to never really being sure how I would feel from day to day. There times in that first few months that I really wondered how great an idea this was turning out to be. Posts from DH and Il Cazzo (primarily) got me through those times. That was 3 summers ago. I’ll never ever go back to a carb based metabolism. I can eat at least 30% more calories every day without blowing up like a medicine ball with a face than I would be able to on a carb based diet.

If you’re not willing to commit at least, at least, 3 months, you’re probably better off not starting in the first place. You are forcing every single living cell in your body to ultimately run on an alternative fuel source. I don’t think a lot of people fully grasp the magnitude of what that means.

911

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
The stumbling block for a lot of people is that fat adaptation is not a diet. It’s a permanent change in eating habits. Anything that happens to anybody in the first 3 months can not be understood as indicating how you will be doing in a year. It will take that long at a bare minimum (3 months) and probably longer to fully adapt.

I went from feeling initially like superman for a few weeks, to being dead by Thursday to never really being sure how I would feel from day to day. There times in that first few months that I really wondered how great an idea this was turning out to be. Posts from DH and Il Cazzo (primarily) got me through those times. That was 3 summers ago. I’ll never ever go back to a carb based metabolism. I can eat at least 30% more calories every day without blowing up like a medicine ball with a face than I would be able to on a carb based diet.

If you’re not willing to commit at least, at least, 3 months, you’re probably better off not starting in the first place. You are forcing every single living cell in your body to ultimately run on an alternative fuel source. I don’t think a lot of people fully grasp the magnitude of what that means.

[/quote]

Would you count a TKD as part of being “fat adapted”. The last time I did a full CKD like the AD it was about 5 weeks and before that it was 9 or so. However I did a TKD with carbs only around workouts for about 5 months.

By the way you still have a carb up right?

And do you really feel this type of diet can optimally put on muscle mass?

912

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
<<< Would you count a TKD as part of being “fat adapted”. The last time I did a full CKD like the AD it was about 5 weeks and before that it was 9 or so. However I did a TKD with carbs only around workouts for about 5 months.

By the way you still have a carb up right?

And do you really feel this type of diet can optimally put on muscle mass?[/quote]

I get a little extra carbs in my shakes which I drink before, during and after training which is 3 brutally hard days a week including Sat. which is load day. I may or may not nibble a few more carbs on Sun. depending on how I feel. I made no adjustments at all, on DH’s recommendation, until I was months in. I cannot in strong enough terms convey how important I think that is.

I’m not real big on targeted, cyclical etc. and after enough time it doesn’t make any difference what you call it. Adapted is, in a nutshell, swapping the functions of lipids and sugars in your life. By force in the beginning after which over time your metabolism becomes increasingly efficient at utilizing it’s newfound fuel source.

I have no way to prove this, but I do believe adapting back and forth has to be unhealthy and each time somebody does it they further render their results unrepresentative even for what could be the case for themselves.

5 months is a pretty decent amount of time, but I’m not in a position to know exactly what you were doing and I will say that it is VERY easy to get a bunch more carbs than you think you are.

Eating for size means calories in some sane combination of macros, plain and simple. Let me put it this way. I’ve been eating at least 5000 calories every day for over 2 years. I am not a naturally large guy. If I ate that much on a carb based diet I would be a jiggling fat body. I would have to eat less and hence have less available building materials. I have zero, ZEEROH issues with energy any time during the week and haven’t for like ever now.

I’m 6’2 mid 240’s and an educated guess of mid to high teens BF. When I started going for size again, (about the time I started the AD) I was 205 give or take and about the same BF. I am 100 times more muscular than 99% of men my age, and probably half my age as well, after being grotesquely unhealthy and out of shape 3 1/2 years ago.

I have made good gains, especially for a north of 40 guy nursing injuries the whole time, but even for anybody. Much of that admittedly has to do with the fact I absolutely bust my ass under the iron. I’ve been meaning to post pics for months (and months).

913

How much is “a little extra carbs in my shakes which I drink before, during and after training”?

So your having carbs peri-workout 3 days a week + a load on saturdays + possibly some on sundays?

The reason I brought up the 5 months is because during that time I had no added carbs on off days and 100g added carbs on workout days (3 days per week). Each day had about 40g or so of trace carbs.

That was 5 months and I really didn’t feel any better/different at the end than the beginning. I DO feel better generally on lower carbs I guess, not many energy swings, but from the time I was on the high fat, carbs only around workouts diet I felt about the same the whole time. My results also didn’t really get any better the longer I was on it.

Maybe I’m wrong but it doesn’t make a lot of sense to me that the body would just start changing how it functions after 3+ months (in the past I’ve read you or others mention periods up to a year if I recall). The body generally adapts quickly to a constant condition and I don’t see how being fat adapted after 4 weeks (definitely long enough to get into ketosis/fat fat adapted state) will be different to the body than 1 year into it. What process could possibly still be changing that hasn’t already happened after 4 weeks?

914

Tiribulus: are you saying it might take a while before any results happen?

915

I’m not a doctor and am only corroborating what was told me by a couple of very veteran AD guys.

I can’t say with precision what timeframe is going to bring what for everybody, obviously.

The bottom line is fat adaptation is not for somebody looking for a way to drop some fat, or prepare for an event, not that either of those are illegitimate pursuits. It’s meant to be to be long term. DH has to be in his 13th or 14th year by now. IlCazzo was 7 or 8 years in when I first met him here.

Whatever the precise micro physiological mechanisms may be, it happened for me like I was told it would and it took several months for me to feel the same all the time. I had mostly good workouts though even during that time. I did it by the book then as well. Now, the only real tweak is getting maybe 40 or 50 extra grams in my shakes and I’m not quite as careful about trace cho in stuff like nuts for instance. I also don’t count anything anymore, I just know what I’m eating at this point. I don’t load all that hard either and my loads are very clean.

I think some people hurt themselves with regular hog wild junk fests right from the start on load days. Some can do that. I know IlCazzo used to eat a whole box of Fruity Pebbles in a popcorn bowl, but like I say he was years in and a very large dude as well. In the old thread a recurring theme, as I saw it, was people going waaay overboard on load days and right from their first load.

I am not one to evangelize and I’m not going to try to talk anybody into anything. This has been good for me, but it took a little while to “settle in” for lack of a better way to put it. My first week I bought keto stix and got myself all hung up on minutia and DH told me “Don’t worry about ketosis and all the little stuff, just learn the mechanics and give it time”.

The bottom line is next month will be 3 years and I’m not going back. I eat piles of manfood every day, never have a problem with energy and training is going well. Tonight I’ll have a pound of bacon and 6 whole eggs scrambled and fried in the fat with hot peppers and onions, smothered in full fat cheese with a salad. I don’t eat bacon all the time, but that’s my treat to myself.

I’m also not going to say that anybody who doesn’t do it like I did is bound for disaster, but like I say, people in a much better position than myself to know told me what to do, I listened and I’m happy. In the end, in my opinion, most people don’t give it enough time and begin tinkering before they have enough personal data to reliably do so.

916

Trib, how many calories do you think you were taking in when you started and what would you estimate it’s at now?

Also how much fat and protein do you generally take in each day? I understand you can get away with more now but 6 whole eggs with a POUND of bacon in full fat cheese? Holy shit man…lol

Sounds like it gets pretty expensive too, no?

Maybe it wasn’t enough time or something but I gained weight really fast eating only about 3500-3900 calories a day with this style diet. Like 2+lb a week for a little while with a lot of fat gain (muscle too). But then I hear you and people like Dave Palumbo saying they can eat a ton of fat without making them fat at all.

917

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
Trib, how many calories do you think you were taking in when you started and what would you estimate it’s at now?

Also how much fat and protein do you generally take in each day? I understand you can get away with more now but 6 whole eggs with a POUND of bacon in full fat cheese? Holy shit man…lol

Sounds like it gets pretty expensive too, no?

Maybe it wasn’t enough time or something but I gained weight really fast eating only about 3500-3900 calories a day with this style diet. Like 2+lb a week for a little while with a lot of fat gain (muscle too). But then I hear you and people like Dave Palumbo saying they can eat a ton of fat without making them fat at all. [/quote]

I was at about 4 grand or so when I started, worked my way up to about 5 over the next 14 or 15 months and then inched over from there the last year or so. It’s been a while since I sat down and calculated, but nothing major has changed.

Actually it’s not expensive. I buy eggs 48 dozen at a time when they’re on sale for a buck or sometimes even less. Ground beef goes on sale for a buck a pound and I’m good for 30-50 pounds there too. Chicken thighs will go on sale for like 69 cents a pound and I’m all over that as well. The freezer I also got on sale for a 170 bucks is always full. Salmon has gone up, but it still goes on sale for like a buck forty for a large can and I grab a pile of those too. Jack mackerel, which is pretty decent fish and goes in my glop with the salmon can still be had on sale for a buck a large can. We use maybe a quart of milk a week.

Load days are largely red potatoes, sweet potatoes, beans and fruit. I doubt if a heavy 2 day load would cost me 5 bucks for cho.

There’s a place here called Randazzo’s where 20 or 25 bucks gets me a full week of all kinds of hot peppers, bell peppers, squash, celery, garlic, tomatoes, all kinds of greens and fruit for 3 people. This place has walnuts for 2:69 a pound and I get my carbs there as well. During the summer my wife grows a bunch too which saves even more.

Costco has EVOO that by all testing I’m able to do at home seems pretty good for 14 bucks a liter. Planning and a willingness to prepare your own food is key.

918

[quote]AlisaV wrote:
Tiribulus: are you saying it might take a while before any results happen?

[/quote]

What kind of results are you looking for? I apologize I haven’t followed the AD threads real closely as of late.

919

Thanks a lot for the information; I can tell you’re incredibly knowledgeable.

I was looking for fat loss (but not at all costs; I’m still working on improving my lifts, not just “dieting.”) Hard to tell since I don’t have a scale, but it feels like i haven’t gotten anywhere in the month I’ve been on the AD. Maybe I just eat too damn much, but according to fitday I average around 1600 cal which honestly doesn’t seem excessive, though it might be, I don’t know. I have bad carb-ups, though; not colossal amounts of food, but it’s all sugar. That may be my trouble.

920

[quote]AlisaV wrote:
Thanks a lot for the information; I can tell you’re incredibly knowledgeable.

I was looking for fat loss (but not at all costs; I’m still working on improving my lifts, not just “dieting.”) Hard to tell since I don’t have a scale, but it feels like i haven’t gotten anywhere in the month I’ve been on the AD. Maybe I just eat too damn much, but according to fitday I average around 1600 cal which honestly doesn’t seem excessive, though it might be, I don’t know. I have bad carb-ups, though; not colossal amounts of food, but it’s all sugar. That may be my trouble.[/quote]

I don’t know how incredibly knowledgeable I am, but I appreciate the accolades nonetheless.

It’s tough to tell from your pics, but I’m guessing you at about 5’4 or 5’5? You are not fat at all, but you are not SUPER lean either which brings me to the first obvious point. You are a female which immediately means it will be tougher to be onion skin lean under the most optimal circumstances. That’s just the way it is. I’m pretty sure you knew that. I will say with some confidence that, especially being a woman, trying to get much leaner than you are is likely to effect your lifts before very long.

One month is nothing… seriously. Be very certain you are not getting a bunch of hidden carbs during the week. I believe many folks underestimate the carbs they’re getting. BE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN you are not under consuming the fat. You ladies can be very bad about that and the Doc addresses it specifically in the book. LowER carb and moderate fat does not work. If you are both inadvertently over doing the cho and being a bit afraid of the fat you will wind up in a sort of metabolic limbo where your body isn’t sure which fork in the road to proceed down. It has to be very low carb and very high fat.

If you’re training hard AND are fairly active you would have to be very short and a 100 pounds for 1600 cals to be enough. Human physiology is full of counterintuitive paradoxes (like eating loads of fat and not getting that way for instance) and if you under feed yourself you can wind up both losing strength and muscle, or at least not progressing, while your body is hesitant to let go of any more of those adipose stores because it’s wondering if starvation is around the corner.

Another belief of mine is that for some people undisciplined carb loads can adversely effect insulin function even after the load days have past. If somebody is very low carb all week and then eats twinkies and captain crunch washed down with mountain dew all day on Saturday that may not be received well by somebody’s endocrine system, especially if repeated consistently. Some people can do that, but I don’t think they’re as common as is sometimes believed.

If it’s any encouragement my wife has been eating this way almost as long as I have. She doesn’t train, but she’s very active. I cannot put weight on her. She’s 5’6, like 118-120 and eats like an absolute horse. I’ve never figured her calories, but she has to be 3 to 4 grand a day.