My Apologies

[quote]hardcore_balla wrote:
Damn Zeb you did it again,

You pulled out your RAND study of 1792 kids out of how many in the united states? [/quote]

A man named Zogby once stated that he could let you know who the next President of the US would be if he could simply poll 750 people! He’s not alone most of the top polling companies need only a tiny fraction to determine trends.

The poliing of 1,792 kids is a darned good representation. And it was done by the “RAND corporation” a very reputable company with solid experience in the field.

By the way where is your counter poll that you said could be easily had which proves your theory?

Can’t find one huh? :slight_smile:

And the poll(s) that you have not shown proves what? Think my friend…

You attack my data yet offer none of your own. Weak…

I guess in order to prove your faulty point you would have to poll your friends. Otherwise you have no statistics at all to back up your half baked premise.

At least thus far you have shown me nothing, nada, zilch, zip.

Then why can’t you come up with just one (more would be helpful) study which shows that showing kids more sex (or violence) on TV does NOT cause them to want to have sex?

You attack this one very good study done by an unbiased group and placed in a pediatric magazine. But you can’t seem to come up with even ONE study which contradicts it…

That is basically what advertising is all about. As I stated Procter & Gamble spends over one billion dollars per based upon this concept. It’s a solid concept. General Motors likes to show people driving their cars because that makes the viewer want to drive GM cars. It influences decision making.

And when it comes to children it is even more so. As those under a certain age are far more easily influenced than adults.

I’m surprised that this comes as a new idea to you. How old did you say you were?

What I stated is simply because something is popular does not mean that it’s appropriate.

See the difference?

Why do people complain to each other and not call the networks? LOL…you can’t be that naive can you? How many folks really want their name logged in as someone complaining? How many are just not going to take the time to do it? How many simply don’t think that they can make a difference?

I think one reason that only about half of our citizens vote is because they don’t see their one vote making a difference. Does that mean that they have no opinion?

The fact that 12 million (your figure) people actually took the time to complain should tell you people are indeed fed up!

I’ve watched them and was very unimpressed in many ways. But, no I’m not going sit down with my family and expose them to some of the garbage that passes as entertainment. Granted not all TV is bad TV. There are some very good programming, but you have to search for it and avoid the garbage. It’s sort of like stepping around the dog crap to get to the sidewalk.

Let me leave you with this:

“According to Sex on TV 4, a biennial study by the Kaiser Family Foundation, the number of sexual scenes on television has nearly doubled since 1998.”

And until you can counter this study with a legitimate one of your own please tell me why children have to be influenced in such a negative manner:

“A study of 1792 adolescents ages 12-17 showed that watching sex on TV influences teens to have sex. Youths who watched more sexual content where more likely to initiate intercourse and progress to more advanced noncoital sexual activities in the year following the beginning of the study. Youths in the 90th percentile of TV sex viewing had a predicted probability of intercourse initiation that was approximately double that of youths in the 10th percentile. Basically, kids with higher exposure to sex on TV were almost twice as likely than kids with lower exposure to initiate sexual intercourse. - Study Conducted by RAND and published in the September 2004 issue of Pediatrics.”

And here is another one for you:

“46% of high school students in the United States have had sexual intercourse. Although sex is common, most sexually active teens wish they had waited longer to have sex, which suggest that sex is occurring before youths are prepared for its consequences. 1 case of an STD is diagnosed for every 4 sexually active teens.”

Read that last stat until it sinks in!

And another:

“In a national opinion poll conducted for Common Sense Media (“New Attempt to Monitor Media Content,” NY Times, 5/21/03), 64% of parents with at least one child between the ages of 2 and 17 believed media products in general were inappropriate for their families. Only one in five parents ‘fully trusted’ the industry-controlled rating systems.”

Here’s one more for you in case you still don’t get it:

“First, on a per-hour basis, sexual material was more than three times as frequent in 1999 as it was in 1989.”

http://www.probe.org/content/view/863/169/

You and I can give our opinions on what we feel is acceptable and what is not acceptable. However, they are bound to be different based upon our differing ages and of course marital status and whether we have or do not have children.

However, I have given you some serious statistics to consider which represent how kids view TV entertainment and how parents are fed up with it. In other words a more global view. Now please post back about all of the studies that contradict the above. Otherwise, why keep talking?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Far too much sex (and violence) on TV for those of us with small kids.

If you can find a decent show you can watch with kids they always stick some inappropiate commercials in there.

It is my job to decide when and how to teach my kids about sex not the medias.

I enjoy some of the shows that are inappropriate for kids. I have no problem when they show that stuff at 10 PM, but much of the stuff they show during the early evening is far too raunchy.

I usually end up with the TV off or with a kids video playing if the kids are awake.

Those of you that do not have kids do not have much of a clue in this area.

I am not calling for government censorship, just for the networks to wake up.

The reason crappy shows like “Dancing with the Stars” get big ratings is because it is one of the few things parents can watch with their kids.

You mentioned “10pm”. Is this the designated time you think all shows not for kids should come on? What about those of us, like myself, who have jobs that are not the usual “9-5”? I wake up at 4am. I don’t watch much tv anyway, but if I chose to, I would never be able to watch a program I liked simply because you had kids. Meanwhile, what inappropriate shows are on the cartoon network before 10pm?[/quote]

And that selfish statement can be turned around: We can never place our young children in front of a television set simply because YOU want to watch adult themed programs!

[quote]Professor X wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Zeb, do you have sex? With the lights on…ever? Outside of the “missionary position”? I can only imagine sex in the Zeb house would go completely unnoticed if you were even just sitting in the other room.
“…not with a bang, but with a whimper.”

I’m looking to protect young children from too much sex and violence on TV (and in the media) as it can cause them to act in ways that they are not prepared for, this causes pain in their lives.

Oh and as for your sex comment, at least I can prove that I had sex as I have children. How many kids do you have?

:slight_smile:

Weak. I know how to use condoms and as a result, I don’t have kids as of yet. That works out great for me because I would rather be well established before raising a family as opposed to the action of many guys that I know of ending up with 3 and 4 kids from 3 and 4 different mothers all begging for child support. Shit, the fact that I don’t have kids should speak volumes about my maturity and priorities.[/quote]

I finally agree with you! You should not become a parent yet. :slight_smile:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I have everything under control in my house that’s not the issue.

If you have everything under control, then there is no issue. You prove, yourself, that avoiding it is possible so what the hell is the problem?

As far as your “dumb” comment, I am laughing at you…as always.[/quote]

(knocks on prof’s head) Wake up man!

Do you ever look beyond the weight room, and at the greater good of society?

Beyond that, if you think you live in a vacuum think again! Everything that effects society as a whole will eventually effect you, a friend or a loved one. The fact that I have to explain that to you on this day on this post is sad commentary…

[quote]ZEB wrote:
R@NE wrote:
firemedichcfr14 wrote:
Now that you mention it would you mind changing your avatar? I sometimes log into T-Nation with my daughter on my lap and I find that offensive.

Thanks for understanding.

Mike

Seeing naked people doesn’t traumatize young children… hypocritical parents who make their children believe that seeing naked people is traumatizing, traumatize young children. heh.

That babe is a keeper! :slight_smile:

Spoken by a moron 20 something with no kids ha ha

[/quote]

This 30 something moron with 2 kids agrees. There are much bigger things for me to worry about than whether my kids see some skin.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
“Watching sex on TV predicts and may hasten adolescent sexual initiation. Reducing the amount of sexual content in entertainment programming, reducing adolescent exposure to this content, or increasing references to and depictions of possible negative consequences of sexual activity could appreciably delay the initiation of coital and noncoital activities.”
[/quote]

A scantily clad avatar is hardly “watching sex on TV”. If your children are under the age of puberty, and you haven’t equated nudity as dirty or bad or sexual, they likely won’t even notice or care.

If they’ve hit puberty, then they’re going to be interested in images like that regardless.

Further, I would argue that it’s not televison that makes a 13 yr-old want to have sex. It’s puberty. Hormones. Look back to before we suddenly decided that sex was dirty and sex was bad. What do you think was the average age sexual activity began? Probably about the same as now. :stuck_out_tongue: If not younger.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
And parents don’t like it either:

[/quote]

Yeah, and we all know how healthy North America’s (parents’) views on sexuality are.

Quickly, and before I read the rest of this thread…

ZEB, consider this site rated - R. I’m tired of people telling ME what I can and can’t see, you closet liberal.

Now, can we get back to our regular programming; including sexy women, nutrition, and ways to get more buff?

This is freedom, baby. Love it, live it. People DIE for it.

k

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Far too much sex (and violence) on TV for those of us with small kids.

If you can find a decent show you can watch with kids they always stick some inappropiate commercials in there.

It is my job to decide when and how to teach my kids about sex not the medias.

I enjoy some of the shows that are inappropriate for kids. I have no problem when they show that stuff at 10 PM, but much of the stuff they show during the early evening is far too raunchy.

I usually end up with the TV off or with a kids video playing if the kids are awake.

Those of you that do not have kids do not have much of a clue in this area.

I am not calling for government censorship, just for the networks to wake up.

The reason crappy shows like “Dancing with the Stars” get big ratings is because it is one of the few things parents can watch with their kids.

You mentioned “10pm”. Is this the designated time you think all shows not for kids should come on? What about those of us, like myself, who have jobs that are not the usual “9-5”? I wake up at 4am. I don’t watch much tv anyway, but if I chose to, I would never be able to watch a program I liked simply because you had kids. Meanwhile, what inappropriate shows are on the cartoon network before 10pm?[/quote]

Watch what you want when you want. I don’t want censorship, it doesn’t work.

I want the networks to address the issue themselves.

I want family friendly blocks of programming with family friendly commercials.

Most of the shows on cartoon network suck. My kids don’t watch most of them.

I do enjoy adult swim. It is tailored for grownups.

The networks better wake up. Democrats and Republicans are both on this issue. I do not want the government to decide but they are going to if the networks don’t rework some of their programming.

There is a time and place for blatant sexuality on TV. There should be a time and place TV is free from it.

[quote]Vyskol wrote:
A scantily clad avatar is hardly “watching sex on TV”. If your children are under the age of puberty, and you haven’t equated nudity as dirty or bad or sexual, they likely won’t even notice or care. [/quote]

Maybe you better reread the thread again. I was not the one who had a problem with the avatar. I think it’s just symptomatic of a larger problem which I have proven exists through the data which I have posted.

“Wanting” to have sex at 13 and actually having sex at 13 are two different things.

Maybe you better look back at the teen pregnancy rate 30 years ago along with the abortion rate. Along with the STD rate with kids 17 or younger.

Currently " One in four sexually active teens will get a sexually transmitted disease."

http://www.tdh.state.tx.us/news/audiotxt/stdsinteens_script.htm

Chlamydia,Gonorrhea, Syphilis,Herpes
Genitals Warts,HIV/AIDS, Hepatitis B
Vaginitis infections, Crabs and Scabies

None of those things are very much “fun” but they are hardly ever depicted on TV or in any form of media as being dangerous.

In other words our kids are being sold a bill of goods which, not the entire picture. This causes some serious pain to our young people.

This is only ONE of the problems of promoting sex on TV (and other media) to kids under the age of 17.

There is no denying that the escalation of sexual themes and images on TV and in the movies and the ongoing push of the media for ever more sex (and violence)on at the wrong time slots
has caused great harm to our youth.

It’s a problem. That you don’t think it is is does not make it go away.

[quote]Yeah, and we all know how healthy North America’s (parents’) views on sexuality are.
[/quote]

You and I are obviously at opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to opinions on sex and morality. Of course that always makes for fun debate.

I respect your opinions. However, I will simply let the stats that I have already posted speak for the obvious problem that currently exists.

I’m a happily married man with children and I suppose that I am going to be more conservative than the typical T-Nation member. Average age maybe 25 (just a guess).

Do you live with your girlfriend and is your child with her? Pardon me for asking but I’m simply curious.

I couldn’t help but notice the following post that you wrote on another thread which speaks to some sort of sex resort.

[quote]My girlfriend’s been. Apparently it is a lot of fun and the whole thing is completely geared towards people hooking up (couples, groups, whatever).

Unfortunately, there are a lot of those people wandering around naked or in leather or what have you that you would really just rather not see that way. :)[/quote]

I am not in any way criticizing you for this. Consenting adults have every right to enjoy themselves as they see fit. This thread is not about that. It does however point out how poloar opposite we are relative to our thinking on this subject.

Also, therein lies most of the disagreement taking place on this thread.

Those who are married with children and of a certain age would probably tend to agree with me.

Those who are younger, or still single
or loosly attatched (usually) with no children would tend to disagree with me.

Take care,

Zeb

[quote]kroby wrote:
Quickly, and before I read the rest of this thread…

ZEB, consider this site rated - R. I’m tired of people telling ME what I can and can’t see, you closet liberal.

Now, can we get back to our regular programming; including sexy women, nutrition, and ways to get more buff?

This is freedom, baby. Love it, live it. People DIE for it.

k
[/quote]

Please reread the beginning posts. I did not complain about this particular site. I know what it is and would not bring any young child near it.

Now relax…breath :slight_smile:

[quote]malonetd wrote:
ZEB wrote:
It’s not that the are going to be “Offended.” That is actually pretty funny prof…(shaking head).

It has to do with control over what your kids see at a certain age. I know you don’t get it…

Again…have some kids and come back and talk to me.

I get what you are saying, but that’s not the point here. You are trying to insert a new argument into this post. The item originally being discussed was an avatar on T-Nation.com, formerly Testosterone.com. This is the same website that posts a scantily clad powerful image once a week; the same website where the editor-in-chief posts an article about his penis once every Friday.

Nobody is shoving this website into you or your children’s faces.[/quote]

I was thinking the exact samething!

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Maybe you better reread the thread again. I was not the one who had a problem with the avatar. I think it’s just symptomatic of a larger problem which I have proven exists through the data which I have posted.
[/quote]
Apologies. My mistake. I thought you’d objected to the avatar. I’ll address the “larger problem” further in.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

In other words our kids are being sold a bill of goods which, not the entire picture. This causes some serious pain to our young people.
[/quote]
Then I would argue that they need MORE information, not less. This is society; this is the world. As parents, it is our job to provide the information our children need to function safely and productively in it.

I had “the talk” with my son at age 5. I didn’t get to choose the time or place. He did. And it wasn’t prompted by something he saw on TV, though I don’t discount that that could easily occurr. He was asking about brothers and sisters, and babies, and so on and so on. He never runs out of questions, and no matter how much I tried to step around the sex and intercourse issue, he just kept asking questions that led right back to it. Not comfortable, but unwilling to lie, I finally came clean with him. He was sufficiently grossed out. (Girls have cooties.) But I am confident that he knows that he can come to me to talk about anything. I’m happy that I will be able to help him and guide him in these issues in the future. Not that he’ll necessarily listen to me, but at least he’ll have the information he needs to make a better decision.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
It’s a problem. That you don’t think it is is does not make it go away.
[/quote]
I think that much of the problem is the vilification of sex and the efforts to hide and avoid the subject.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I’m a happily married man with children and I suppose that I am going to be more conservative than the typical T-Nation member. Average age maybe 25 (just a guess).

Do you live with your girlfriend and is your child with her? Pardon me for asking but I’m simply curious.
[/quote]
I’m a happily divorced man with children. I’m 31. My children are from my marriage and they both live with me.
My girlfriend has a (15-yr old) daughter from a previous marriage. (Mine are 4 & 6, girl and boy).
We don’t currently live together but are planning on buying a house in the spring.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I couldn’t help but notice the following post that you wrote on another thread which speaks to some sort of sex resort.

My girlfriend’s been. Apparently it is a lot of fun and the whole thing is completely geared towards people hooking up (couples, groups, whatever).

Unfortunately, there are a lot of those people wandering around naked or in leather or what have you that you would really just rather not see that way. :slight_smile:

I am not in any way criticizing you for this. Consenting adults have every right to enjoy themselves as they see fit. This thread is not about that. It does however point out how poloar opposite we are relative to our thinking on this subject.
[/quote]
Not that it’s relevant, but it was my girlfriend who went, 7 years ago, for her divorce party.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Also, therein lies most of the disagreement taking place on this thread.

Those who are married with children and of a certain age would probably tend to agree with me.

Those who are younger, or still single
or loosly attatched (usually) with no children would tend to disagree with me.
[/quote]
Yes, I tend to be quite open-minded when it comes to nudity and sexuality. You’re not the first to disagree with me. :slight_smile:

Having the majority doesn’t make you right. :stuck_out_tongue:

I wouldn’t call myself younger, or single, or loosely attached. And I definitely have children.
And I think that the fact that most of my demographic doesn’t agree with me, is probably as much to blame for our “larger problem” as is the media.

Here’s a couple of interesting articles. Not to change your mind (I know I won’t), but if nothing else, give you something to think about. I don’t necessarily agree with everything in them either, but they’re well-put opinions, different from the norm:

http://macopinion.com/columns/engine/99/06/07.html

The thoughts and actions of so many individuals on this thread are exactly what is wrong with our country today.

I am sick of hear num-nut liberal wack-jobs cry about their “freedom of speech” be infringed upon. It’s time for a wake-up call.

Our founding fathers did not intend for you to parade nude women around on your avatar. You are an ignorant and insulting idiot for doing it.

You fools out there that think showing porn to your kids is OK - You are among the dumbest people to have ever walked the face of the earth. Your actions will affect your children, and when your daughter is going for the world gang-bang record, don’t come crying to me.

You guys that quote George Carlin because you think he said something cool - you need to grow a brain. If you learned to think for yourselves, you’d live a much longer and happier life.

You freaks can do what you want - don’t cram it down my throat. I don’t want to see it at work. I don’t want to see it at home. I don’t want to see it around my kids. I don’t want to see it around my wife.

I’d like to slap some of you freaks silly.

[quote]kroby wrote:
Quickly, and before I read the rest of this thread…

ZEB, consider this site rated - R. I’m tired of people telling ME what I can and can’t see, you closet liberal.

Now, can we get back to our regular programming; including sexy women, nutrition, and ways to get more buff?

This is freedom, baby. Love it, live it. People DIE for it.

k
[/quote]

You freaking dummy. If this is what you die for, then go die for it. Freaking idiot.

[quote]terribleivan wrote:
The thoughts and actions of so many individuals on this thread are exactly what is wrong with our country today.

I am sick of hear num-nut liberal wack-jobs cry about their “freedom of speech” be infringed upon. It’s time for a wake-up call.

Our founding fathers did not intend for you to parade nude women around on your avatar. You are an ignorant and insulting idiot for doing it.

You fools out there that think showing porn to your kids is OK - You are among the dumbest people to have ever walked the face of the earth. Your actions will affect your children, and when your daughter is going for the world gang-bang record, don’t come crying to me.

You guys that quote George Carlin because you think he said something cool - you need to grow a brain. If you learned to think for yourselves, you’d live a much longer and happier life.

You freaks can do what you want - don’t cram it down my throat. I don’t want to see it at work. I don’t want to see it at home. I don’t want to see it around my kids. I don’t want to see it around my wife.

I’d like to slap some of you freaks silly.
[/quote]

Then tell us, oh morally superior one, why the fuck did you log in today?

Notice I said, “FUCK”.

Last point to make before I let so many fools wither away…

If you don’t have any kids, then your opinion is virtually worthless in this discussion.

Until you see that you are creating a world today that your children will live in tomorrow, you know nothing.

And, to all of you with kids who think that peddling porn is just a dandy-old thing to do - You guys make me sick.

I need to go hurl.

[quote]MrChill wrote:
And maybe add Controversial Image to the list?[/quote]

It’d be in the top 5, at least.

The most controversial image(s) I remember accompanied an article TC wrote about Realdolls, back when this site was Testosterone.

Both the column/pics raised such an incredible shiatstorm some people swore they’d never read this site again.

The reaction surprised even TC, who said some people took it so personally they acted like he insulted their mom.

The pics were later removed from the article and even the article title was changed.

Funny thing was a couple pics showed naked mannequins, but they were like seeing big plastic dolls. It wasn’t anything racy, for all the negative commentary TC said he got.

Sorry to say, your avatar got trumped by a 6’ Barbie doll. :wink:

http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_68tc

[quote]terribleivan wrote:
The thoughts and actions of so many individuals on this thread are exactly what is wrong with our country today.

I am sick of hear num-nut liberal wack-jobs cry about their “freedom of speech” be infringed upon. It’s time for a wake-up call.

Our founding fathers did not intend for you to parade nude women around on your avatar. You are an ignorant and insulting idiot for doing it.

You fools out there that think showing porn to your kids is OK - You are among the dumbest people to have ever walked the face of the earth. Your actions will affect your children, and when your daughter is going for the world gang-bang record, don’t come crying to me.

You guys that quote George Carlin because you think he said something cool - you need to grow a brain. If you learned to think for yourselves, you’d live a much longer and happier life.

You freaks can do what you want - don’t cram it down my throat. I don’t want to see it at work. I don’t want to see it at home. I don’t want to see it around my kids. I don’t want to see it around my wife.

I’d like to slap some of you freaks silly.
[/quote]

While I believe it is somewhat immature and irresponsible, I don’t take a hard line on this like you. It is up to the parents to take responsibility for sex. Just because someone sees the avatar does not mean they will be going for a gang bang record.

Yes, it’s irritating, I agree, but I’d rather take the road that these guys have no real imagination, are very young, and do not care what others think. They will come around eventually.

To me, having a naked chick as an avatar is just immaturishly lame, and shows no creativity, but that’s my opinion. Others might also think mine is lame and would prefer to see a hot chick.

We have to deal with it since it’s everywhere, but I can still NICELY present my argument.

[quote]terribleivan wrote:
Last point to make before I let so many fools wither away…

If you don’t have any kids, then your opinion is virtually worthless in this discussion.

Until you see that you are creating a world today that your children will live in tomorrow, you know nothing.

And, to all of you with kids who think that peddling porn is just a dandy-old thing to do - You guys make me sick.

I need to go hurl.[/quote]

LOL! Dude, if you have kids, you just strengthened the point that many with kids don’t have a clue.

[quote]StevenF wrote:
I accept your apology MrChill. On a related note, I offer up this quote:

“Fuck the children!”
-George Carlin[/quote]

Aren’t you about to have a child?