[quote]PB Andy wrote:
zahmad is getting PWNED left and right. love it.[/quote]
It’s kinda sad at the same time though. I mean every single person on this planet, regardless of faith or colour or social status, has to sometimes make compromises or sacrifices to get the things that they want in life. It’s just fucking the way life is. This thread is a prime example of one person refusing to compromise on the basis that she is special and therefore everyone else should compromise to suit her.
Wear whatever you want. When it comes time to compete - wear the prescribed garb then compete and when you’re done change back in to whatever the fuck it is you like, sorry, HAVE to wear. It’s so simplistic that it’s mind boggling there’s even a debate here.
It’s clothing ffs. If your faith is so fragile that it relies on you wearing specific fabricated cloth to avoid the wrath of God then seriously…there is something wrong there and it is not the rulesets of sporting bodies.
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
zahmad is getting PWNED left and right. love it.[/quote]
It’s kinda sad at the same time though. I mean every single person on this planet, regardless of faith or colour or social status, has to sometimes make compromises or sacrifices to get the things that they want in life. It’s just fucking the way life is. This thread is a prime example of one person refusing to compromise on the basis that she is special and therefore everyone else should compromise to suit her.
Wear whatever you want. When it comes time to compete - wear the prescribed garb then compete and when you’re done change back in to whatever the fuck it is you like, sorry, HAVE to wear. It’s so simplistic that it’s mind boggling there’s even a debate here.
It’s clothing ffs. If your faith is so fragile that it relies on you wearing specific fabricated cloth to avoid the wrath of God then seriously…there is something wrong there and it is not the rulesets of sporting bodies.
[/quote]
[quote]zahmad wrote:
If one must choose religion over sport than that sport should not claim that it does not discriminate based on religion.[/quote]
This is simply wrong.
[quote]zahmad wrote:
She is Muslim. She has to cover herself. The sport says you can’t compete if you cover yourself. Therefore a Muslim woman cannot compete. That’s discrimination.
That is the right of the sport to select a uniform if they want. But they should not claim that they don’t discriminate based on religion when the uniform prohibits people of certain religions to participate.
[/quote]
Wrong again. The sport does not prohibit the religion. The religion (or at least some variants of it) prohibit the sport.
[quote]Edevus wrote:
Last April (I think) I was watching this Weight Lifting championship in Kazan. I’m quite sure there were plenty of Turkish and Azerbaijan women competing without any issues, using the required clothing and all that.
If those muslim girls can compete showing elbow and knees, why can’t other muslim girls show it as well?
It’s kind of rethorical question anyways…[/quote]
Turkish female weight lifter (although I don’t know what her religion is).
Here is another:
[quote]zahmad wrote:
If one must choose religion over sport than that sport should not claim that it does not discriminate based on religion.[/quote]
This is simply wrong.[/quote]
I agree, that zahmad is wrong I mean.
He’s putting the cart in front of the horse.
If the rules of a sport say what the equipment needs to be then someone comes along saying “But I’m a Muslim and can’t wear that!” then that’s not discrimination.
i wish this were cast as a ‘factors that limit women’s participation in sport’ issue instead of a religious one…
i mean i’m not religious. but i would not participate in volleyball or track and field for that matter in virtue of the clothing that is required. the required clothing isn’t necessary in order to prevent cheating. there are alternative ways of checking. there isn’t any reason that i know of why the elbows and knees shouldn’t be covered for weightlifting any more than for boxing or swimming or basketball or volleyball or whatever…
and so a number of women don’t participate who would otherwise. and that seems to me to be a shame.
i actually found something in australia where some (early teen) guys didn’t want to participate in a weightlifting competition because they didn’t feel comfortable wearing the tight fitted outfit. they let them wear board shorts over the top. it was a local comp so they could do whatever they wanted in that respect. what is wrong with board shorts? why not allow people to compete in outfits that they find comfortable and / or require outfits that are comfortable and modest?
i think it is particularly important for women’s sports since there is an issue already about female athletes being respected as athletes for their abilities rather than being viewed as sex objects. women’s liberation… why shouldn’t females be free to compete in a way that is free from being sexually objectified by the male gaze?
the women who was covered… is about the only picture i’ve seen of a female oly lifter where people haven’t made comments about ‘i’d hit it’ or ‘omfg what a hideous beast’. i do feel sometimes that traditional muslim dress is about the only way for women to dress to be taken seriously as people these days… especially in the gym. pretty sad, huh.
[quote]zahmad wrote:
She is Muslim. She has to cover herself. The sport says you can’t compete if you cover yourself. Therefore a Muslim woman cannot compete. That’s discrimination.
That is the right of the sport to select a uniform if they want. But they should not claim that they don’t discriminate based on religion when the uniform prohibits people of certain religions to participate.
[/quote]
WTF? Okay I’m a monk who’s taken a vow of silence. Now Toastmasters won’t let me enter their debating competition. It’s outright discrimination right?
[quote]Stern wrote:
It’s kinda sad at the same time though. I mean every single person on this planet, regardless of faith or colour or social status, has to sometimes make compromises or sacrifices to get the things that they want in life. It’s just fucking the way life is. This thread is a prime example of one person refusing to compromise on the basis that she is special and therefore everyone else should compromise to suit her.
Wear whatever you want. When it comes time to compete - wear the prescribed garb then compete and when you’re done change back in to whatever the fuck it is you like, sorry, HAVE to wear. It’s so simplistic that it’s mind boggling there’s even a debate here.
It’s clothing ffs. If your faith is so fragile that it relies on you wearing specific fabricated cloth to avoid the wrath of God then seriously…there is something wrong there and it is not the rulesets of sporting bodies.
[/quote]
[quote]alexus wrote:
i wish this were cast as a ‘factors that limit women’s participation in sport’ issue instead of a religious one…
i mean i’m not religious. but i would not participate in volleyball or track and field for that matter in virtue of the clothing that is required. the required clothing isn’t necessary in order to prevent cheating. there are alternative ways of checking. there isn’t any reason that i know of why the elbows and knees shouldn’t be covered for weightlifting any more than for boxing or swimming or basketball or volleyball or whatever…
and so a number of women don’t participate who would otherwise. and that seems to me to be a shame.
i actually found something in australia where some (early teen) guys didn’t want to participate in a weightlifting competition because they didn’t feel comfortable wearing the tight fitted outfit. they let them wear board shorts over the top. it was a local comp so they could do whatever they wanted in that respect. what is wrong with board shorts? why not allow people to compete in outfits that they find comfortable and / or require outfits that are comfortable and modest?
i think it is particularly important for women’s sports since there is an issue already about female athletes being respected as athletes for their abilities rather than being viewed as sex objects. women’s liberation… why shouldn’t females be free to compete in a way that is free from being sexually objectified by the male gaze?
the women who was covered… is about the only picture i’ve seen of a female oly lifter where people haven’t made comments about ‘i’d hit it’ or ‘omfg what a hideous beast’. i do feel sometimes that traditional muslim dress is about the only way for women to dress to be taken seriously as people these days… especially in the gym. pretty sad, huh.
don’t mind me… the gym morons been getting to me…
[/quote]
The problem I see with the girls lifting outfit was that it was loose. It seems difficult to determine if lockout has been achieved at the end of the lifts even with proper attire but add in the loose sleeves and pant legs… This kind of competition has a judged component so she needs to be visible to be judged (unlike volleyball). What a local comp does is irrelevant as a local competition has to live in the community and the people in that community might be living in fear of Muslims(Islam) or their retaliation for perceived wrongs.<–Local unhealthy attitudes towards religion should not be aloud to infect the world.
The reason why no one wants to give in to this is because lots of people see this kind of worship as crazy. No one wants to give in to crazy. I can’t imagine trying to workout in a head scarf thingy, this is one of the major heat venting areas of the body, covering that up during a workout seems insane not modest.
loose is a problem, yeah. fair enough to rule out loose clothing for that reason. like how in boxing they said the face needed to be exposed so they could see where the punches were landed. that seems fair, too.
The reason why no one wants to give in to this is because lots of people see this kind of worship as crazy. No one wants to give in to crazy.
yeah. that is why i don’t like to see it cast as a religious issue. people have opinions, too, on what the headscarfs mean… some people see them as a symbol of women’s oppression… other people see tolerating them as being practically equivalent to condoning september 11… other people see them as a symbol of a woman’s choice not to be sexualized by strangers…
I can’t imagine trying to workout in a head scarf thingy, this is one of the major heat venting areas of the body, covering that up during a workout seems insane not modest.
they are making athletic ones now. sweat wicking etc.
it will be interesting to see how many women choose to wear them / are allowed to choose to wear them for London 2012. looks like boxing is set… i wonder what else…
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Actually you’re wrong. Check out Saudi Arabia’s ‘Moral Beauty Contest’. These chicks are absolute stunners.
Moral Beauty Contest sounds good to me. Sign me up.
[/quote]
Sure. Ready to convert to Islam, wear a black tent with eyeslits all the time, have to be accompanied by a male relative whenever you want to go anywhere, get bashed and likely raped by roaming gangs of ‘religious police’ for infractions such as talking to a man, get your genitals mutilated, have your husband sell your 11-year-old daughter to a 60 year-old man for a donkey etc? Sounds great yeah! Morally upright too. Did I mention black people are called ‘Abid’ in Saudi Arabia? It means slave.
[quote]alexus wrote:
loose is a problem, yeah. fair enough to rule out loose clothing for that reason. like how in boxing they said the face needed to be exposed so they could see where the punches were landed. that seems fair, too.
The reason why no one wants to give in to this is because lots of people see this kind of worship as crazy. No one wants to give in to crazy.
yeah. that is why i don’t like to see it cast as a religious issue. people have opinions, too, on what the headscarfs mean… some people see them as a symbol of women’s oppression… other people see tolerating them as being practically equivalent to condoning september 11… other people see them as a symbol of a woman’s choice not to be sexualized by strangers…
I can’t imagine trying to workout in a head scarf thingy, this is one of the major heat venting areas of the body, covering that up during a workout seems insane not modest.
they are making athletic ones now. sweat wicking etc.
it will be interesting to see how many women choose to wear them / are allowed to choose to wear them for London 2012. looks like boxing is set… i wonder what else…[/quote]
As a non-religious person I see it as the same thing as the what was mentioned in an earlier post about wearing a Santa suit to lift in. I don’t care if he thinks he’s Santa, he can’t wear the suit to compete in! Unless he maybe gets a regulation lifting outfit done in the Santa colours, I’d be okay with that. So maybe they could allow spandex, if that will allow them to tell if she is not wearing anything that is not allowed underneath(?), and she could still be covered.<-I have no idea if just being covered is crazy enough for her.
Meh, I’m really glad I’m not into/born into this religious stuff.
WTF? Okay I’m a monk who’s taken a vow of silence. Now Toastmasters won’t let me enter their debating competition. It’s outright discrimination right?[/quote]
ha! I like that analogy…it would even work in a comedy show or something.
As a non-religious person I see it as the same thing as the what was mentioned in an earlier post about wearing a Santa suit to lift in. I don’t care if he thinks he’s Santa, he can’t wear the suit to compete in! Unless he maybe gets a regulation lifting outfit done in the Santa colours, I’d be okay with that. So maybe they could allow spandex, if that will allow them to tell if she is not wearing anything that is not allowed underneath(?), and she could still be covered.<-I have no idea if just being covered is crazy enough for her.
Meh, I’m really glad I’m not into/born into this religious stuff.
[/quote]
I can’t tell if this is supposed to be satirical. Spandex lifting burkas? Competing in Santa suits?
I did some training with an orthodox jewish coach who made it clear he didn’t like my “attire”. I wore a tank top and gym pants (rolled to the knee). All the girls training at that club had to wear long sleeves and long pants (no spandex or spandex mixes, nothing that showed any body-shape). I can’t train in long sleeves so I found a different club.
This woman should go find a designer who has some experience working with athletes and get herself a “singlet” made that would work within the rules of the sport. Hell, if it’s accepted she could market them in the middle east and make some money possibly. Or take up golf.
