Couldn’t really think of a good title to accurately describe my question.
I am sitting at 198lbs right now. I want to build muscle but also want to lean up. I know the whole serving two masters thing but bear with me.
If I eat enough clean calories to maintain that body weight as I work out I should be recomping and becoming leaner at the same body weight which would mean I would be putting on muscle while losing fat, or am I missing something?
You must be meticulous, bust your ass, and even then it’s a really slow process.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
You must be meticulous, bust your ass, and even then it’s a really slow process. [/quote]
Oh yea, I know it is a slow process. I guess I was just wondering if there was something flawed about my logic regarding recomping while eating at a bodyweight maintanenace calorie level.
Dude me too exactly. I don’t focus on my diet even remotely well enough to accomplish this, but it’s kind of a “back of my mind” goal. I’ve dropped down from 198 to like 194 though :(. And it was just fat, so that’s fine I guess, but the goal of building 4lbs of muscle to make up for it while you lose that fat is fucking tricky.
[quote]csulli wrote:
Dude me too exactly. I don’t focus on my diet even remotely well enough to accomplish this, but it’s kind of a “back of my mind” goal. I’ve dropped down from 198 to like 194 though :(. And it was just fat, so that’s fine I guess, but the goal of building 4lbs of muscle to make up for it while you lose that fat is fucking tricky.[/quote]
Right now, it would not break my heart to fall of into that 180 range if I got pretty lean. I just am trying to avoid spinning my wheels. So I am thinking as long as I am in excess of LBM maintenance calories, I should be putting on LBM but I don’t really know.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
Dude me too exactly. I don’t focus on my diet even remotely well enough to accomplish this, but it’s kind of a “back of my mind” goal. I’ve dropped down from 198 to like 194 though :(. And it was just fat, so that’s fine I guess, but the goal of building 4lbs of muscle to make up for it while you lose that fat is fucking tricky.[/quote]
Right now, it would not break my heart to fall of into that 180 range if I got pretty lean. I just am trying to avoid spinning my wheels. So I am thinking as long as I am in excess of LBM maintenance calories, I should be putting on LBM but I don’t really know. [/quote]
“recomping” is a good way to spin your wheels.
What are you after? A look or performance? Or even both? Because, neither of those equate to a specific body weight. You can look bigger, perform better and be lighter.
Why does being at a certain weight matter to you?
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
Dude me too exactly. I don’t focus on my diet even remotely well enough to accomplish this, but it’s kind of a “back of my mind” goal. I’ve dropped down from 198 to like 194 though :(. And it was just fat, so that’s fine I guess, but the goal of building 4lbs of muscle to make up for it while you lose that fat is fucking tricky.[/quote]
Right now, it would not break my heart to fall of into that 180 range if I got pretty lean. I just am trying to avoid spinning my wheels. So I am thinking as long as I am in excess of LBM maintenance calories, I should be putting on LBM but I don’t really know. [/quote]
“recomping” is a good way to spin your wheels.
What are you after? A look or performance? Or even both? Because, neither of those equate to a specific body weight. You can look bigger, perform better and be lighter.
Why does being at a certain weight matter to you?
[/quote]
I don’t feel like a grown man unless I’m within spitting distance of 200lbs. I don’t know why; I’m sure it’s some kind of psychological bullshit. If I were to get down to 181 (where I would be if I were lean) I would feel small and stressed out lol.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
Dude me too exactly. I don’t focus on my diet even remotely well enough to accomplish this, but it’s kind of a “back of my mind” goal. I’ve dropped down from 198 to like 194 though :(. And it was just fat, so that’s fine I guess, but the goal of building 4lbs of muscle to make up for it while you lose that fat is fucking tricky.[/quote]
Right now, it would not break my heart to fall of into that 180 range if I got pretty lean. I just am trying to avoid spinning my wheels. So I am thinking as long as I am in excess of LBM maintenance calories, I should be putting on LBM but I don’t really know. [/quote]
“recomping” is a good way to spin your wheels.
What are you after? A look or performance? Or even both? Because, neither of those equate to a specific body weight. You can look bigger, perform better and be lighter.
Why does being at a certain weight matter to you?
[/quote]
The weight doesn’t really matter at all. That’s just where I am at right now so that is what I have based my caloric needs off of. My goal is aesthetics and just overall health. As you said, neither of those are tied to a bodyweight. Setting my calories and trying to map progression is the only real purpose I have for tracking bodyweight. By my logic, if I am at 198 20ish%bf (I really have no clue, just a guess for argument sake) that makes LBM at 158.
So with that knowledge, eating enough calories to maintain 198 (my only accurately measurable variable is bodyweight) puts me in excess of the 158lbs of LBM so I should be gaining LBM. And if I am gaining LBM while maintain bodyweight I should be getting less fat (decreasing my bf%). This makes sense to me but I am unsure if that is totally flawed thinking.
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
Dude me too exactly. I don’t focus on my diet even remotely well enough to accomplish this, but it’s kind of a “back of my mind” goal. I’ve dropped down from 198 to like 194 though :(. And it was just fat, so that’s fine I guess, but the goal of building 4lbs of muscle to make up for it while you lose that fat is fucking tricky.[/quote]
Right now, it would not break my heart to fall of into that 180 range if I got pretty lean. I just am trying to avoid spinning my wheels. So I am thinking as long as I am in excess of LBM maintenance calories, I should be putting on LBM but I don’t really know. [/quote]
“recomping” is a good way to spin your wheels.
What are you after? A look or performance? Or even both? Because, neither of those equate to a specific body weight. You can look bigger, perform better and be lighter.
Why does being at a certain weight matter to you?
[/quote]
I don’t feel like a grown man unless I’m within spitting distance of 200lbs. I don’t know why; I’m sure it’s some kind of psychological bullshit. If I were to get down to 181 (where I would be if I were lean) I would feel small and stressed out lol.[/quote]
I look like I have more muscle at 200 than 240 and I’m stronger. I’ve been down in the 180’s, and trust me, it ain’t bad if you just look in a mirror. I was afraid of the 200 pound barrier too, and I’m more man since I crossed it (going down).
imho you will waste your time… recomping or a mini-diet is something you do as damage control on a prolonged bulk… a picture would definitely help in giving advice here.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Couldn’t really think of a good title to accurately describe my question.
I am sitting at 198lbs right now. I want to build muscle but also want to lean up. I know the whole serving two masters thing but bear with me.
If I eat enough clean calories to maintain that body weight as I work out I should be recomping and becoming leaner at the same body weight which would mean I would be putting on muscle while losing fat, or am I missing something?
[/quote]
To begin with - I am a beginner (~15 months lifting) so I am not offering any advice or suggestions.
I have been kind of doing what I believe you are asking about. Rather than eating just maintenance I started at just under for a while… now I am at maintenance and in a while I will go just over.
My ultimate goal is to get stronger and leaner. I have not decided upon any ‘bigger’ goals in terms of weight - I am going to let time and experience guide me as I learn. My psychology on weight is on the other end of the spectrum from Csulli - having been a cyclist and runner my whole life I have a fear of weighing too much on the scale. My thought pattern is changing but this does not happen overnight.
My decision was to focus on hitting a 10% bf as I had never been that lean. I accomplished this but it was slow. The last month or two of this process I remained at the same weight but was clearly getting stronger and leaner. Your ‘recomp’ if you will. During this phase I was no more than 500 calories under maintenance and 200-300 for most of this phase.
After hitting 10% bf I have since been in the process of slowly adding calories back into my diet; first to hit maintenance (my current state) and next to slowly increase. Currently I believe that my calories are at maintenance but I look like (too early to know empirically) I am continuing to make strength and leanness progress. This is what I think that you are asking about.
I agree with the above comments that re-comp is slow. There are weeks that have gone by where I could detect no discernible changes. However, it was the approach that I wanted to take and as I don’t have too much trouble being consistent it worked for me. It helps that I have a steady job/life routine and have absolutely no problems eating the exact same food every day (not completely necessary but it helps).
I know that 10% bf is not super lean. However, I did not see the benefit in hitting something like 8% (which is my ultimate goal) just to turn around and have to give up some of that leanness to begin gaining more strength.
So that is my current experience. My current thinking is that a ‘re-comp’ can work but probably has a limit. And perhaps what I am doing is not a re-comp but just a minor cut/bulk. I am thinking to make more significant strength or leanness progress that the traditional bulk/cut paths are more effective. Let me reiterate one more time though - I am quite new so take my thoughts with that in mind.
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
imho you will waste your time… recomping or a mini-diet is something you do as damage control on a prolonged bulk… a picture would definitely help in giving advice here.[/quote]
Ok. This wasn’t really a diet. I was trying to change my eating habits for the better as a lifestyle change. Guessed calories and every two weeks I weigh just to see where I am at, make sure I am not gaining to much at a time or losing. Kind of a clean bulk idea. Well the past two times I have weighed I have been the exact same weight despite increasing daily calories by 500kcal. I look slightly more muscular although its negligible but was trying to figure out if I was somehow managing to gain LBM while losing a little extra chunk.
What do most people base their daily calories off of when getting started with calorie tracking, LBM or Bodyweight?
Post some pics and give a more detailed idea of what you are eating. Just saying “clean bulk” means different things to different people.
[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
imho you will waste your time… recomping or a mini-diet is something you do as damage control on a prolonged bulk… a picture would definitely help in giving advice here.[/quote]
Ok. This wasn’t really a diet. I was trying to change my eating habits for the better as a lifestyle change. Guessed calories and every two weeks I weigh just to see where I am at, make sure I am not gaining to much at a time or losing. Kind of a clean bulk idea. Well the past two times I have weighed I have been the exact same weight despite increasing daily calories by 500kcal. I look slightly more muscular although its negligible but was trying to figure out if I was somehow managing to gain LBM while losing a little extra chunk.
What do most people base their daily calories off of when getting started with calorie tracking, LBM or Bodyweight? [/quote]
It doesn’t matter what people base their daily calories on, you know how many calories you’re eating daily now, right? And you know exactly how many grams of protein, fat, and carbs? And you’re weight is stable? You have your baseline! From here, you add or subtract calories or activity according to your goals, it’s pretty simple. Weigh and get progress pics once a week or every two weeks, stick to wholesome nutritious foods. I like to divide up my daily macros into 6 equal meals, then subtract or add carbs to each meal depending on if I’m bulking or cutting. That’s one way to do it.
Food choices are important, stick with lean beef, eggs(1 whole to 6 whites or so), fish, chicken, tuna, low fat cottage cheese, quality protein powder… fruit, berries, rice, oats etc, nuts, olive oil, macadamia nut oil, nuts, almonds, walnuts… you get the picture. Lots of green veggies and lots of water. It’s about getting quality nutrients. “If it fits your macros” is retarded excuse people use to eat cupcakes. lol
A little history might help. I am not a total beginner. I had 5 years of solid training under my belt, two of those with a mentor who showed an interest because he thought I had an aesthetic appeal and some potential if I could put on some mass. Then I got married, got out of college and just let everything go to hell. I have been off and on over the last 5-6 years (mostly off), and am trying to get back to a point I feel respectable.
I weigh extraordinarily heavy for my size, not sure why. Stats are very misleading on me because of this and I outweigh people much larger, like Csulli for one. I will try to get a picture up but that could be a little problematic and could take a couple days.
My biggest problem is the last time I did this I had a outstanding metabolism at 21 years old that could make up for my nutrition stupidity. I am having to relearn much of what I thought I knew about how to eat to gain muscle and still look good.
Typical day of meals looks something like this 3000 cals, at least 200gs protein, then I just fill in the rest with whatever I want as long as its clean and I don’t count veggies that aren’t starchy.
Breakfast
4 whole eggs cooked in olive oil
1 packet oatmeal with some honey
1.5 cups 2% milk
Snack
Couple pieces of fruit (mostly oranges)
Lunch
2 grilled or baked chicken breasts
1 baked sweet or regular potato or a cup of rice
Plenty of veggies (celery, broccoli, bell peppers)
Preworkout
Gatorade based homemade preworkout
Post workout
Peanut Butter protein shake and a Banana (or some other piece of fruit)
Dinner
4 baked tilapia filets
2 cups green beans
1 cup rice or a potatoe
More Veggies
Bedtime Snack
1/2 cup low fat cottage cheese
1 cup 2% milk
Also I feel like I am coming across as a little combative or defensive but that is not my intention so please don’t read it as such.
Lunch and dinner look good, I would make the rest of your meals look more like that. I don’t know about that gatorade pre-wo, or snacking on just fruit… get protein with every meal. Getting a handle on all your macros is best, not just protein. The closer you track things, the easier it is to measure progress and make changes.
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
eggs(1 whole to 6 whites or so)[/quote]
I have to ask why you would leave out the most nutritious and tastiest part of the egg? I would rather have 6 yolks to 1 egg white.
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
Lunch and dinner look good, I would make the rest of your meals look more like that. I don’t know about that gatorade pre-wo, or snacking on just fruit… get protein with every meal. Getting a handle on all your macros is best, not just protein. The closer you track things, the easier it is to measure progress and make changes.[/quote]
Yeah. I still have a lot of work to do on figuring out the diet thing. I guess I just was trying to cross one bridge at a time. Figured total Cals, and protein were the two most important so I started there. I am trying to come up with a pretty livable long term diet strategy but getting a handle on the carb/pro/fat breakdown is my next goal. And the Gatorade pre is just powdered Gatorade, BCAA powder and creatine. Nothing exciting but its cheap.
This whole whether to eat to maintain, gain, or lose bodyweight when I want to be leaner but still want to feed muscle growth decision was really my first hiccup in my slow and steady race.