So you’re willing to say that the posing of a bodybuilder is what determines who wins?? Posing is just that… posing. Its sole purpose is to accentuate one’s looks, it’s not true performance, there’s no real action. Posing remains a means to an end.
As for the other guy, you completely missed my argument; my point still stands. A bodybuilder is not measured by his training (though that affects his looks), he is measured by his physique, nothing more.
[quote]nopal_juventus wrote:
So you’re willing to say that the posing of a bodybuilder is what determines who wins?? Posing is just that… posing. Its sole purpose is to accentuate one’s looks, it’s not true performance, there’s no real action. Posing remains a means to an end.
As for the other guy, you completely missed my argument; my point still stands. A bodybuilder is not measured by his training (though that affects his looks), he is measured by his physique, nothing more.[/quote]
Why does anyone care that some choose to call it a sport? If fishing and hot dog eating can be called a sport, bodybuilding can as well.
Along with that, why does anyone care that some don’t consider it a sport? What does that change?
The only thing that gets to me is those who claim that looking like a pro bodybuilder is an easy task or that drugs are the only thing seperating “a guy who lifts weights” from “Mr. Olympia”. That’s retarded. I doubt anyone using this forum regularly has the genes to beat Ronnie Coleman in mass and strength (at that level of conditioning) regardless of the use of chemicals.
[quote]SWR-1222D wrote:
You obviously have no clue as to how much effort goes into being a competitive bodybuilder if you think a beauty pagent contestant puts in as much effort.
Your post doesn’t show much intelligence about training either.
What a tool.[/quote]
You obviously have no clue as to how much effort goes into competing in a beauty pageant. I know a girl who was a runner-up in the Miss USA…she worked at least as hard at that as most national level bodybuilders work at their craft.
And if anyone thinks posing well enough not to be beaten in a bodybuilding competition by a lesser opponent takes any skill, well then you truly are unathletic. It really isn’t that complex.
[quote]RickJames wrote:
And if anyone thinks posing well enough not to be beaten in a bodybuilding competition by a lesser opponent takes any skill, well then you truly are unathletic. It really isn’t that complex. [/quote]
My point was to simply show that the claim made that there is no “performance” in BodyBuilding was False. Posing does take skill, I have seen it happen numerous times that someone who looks as if they are to win, does not pose properly. How would my “thinking” that posing requires skill make me any less athletic?
[quote]paul bunyan wrote:
Shouldn’t an athlete be someone who is athletic? Is a beauty pagent contestant any less athletic than a bodybuilder? They both spend much time and effort in preparation for contests. I know you still have to work for gains even on steroids, but with the ammount these guys take there is not so much grueling effort involved. Their articles in fitness rags don’t show much intelligence about training. I bet most on T-Nation work as hard as they do. But do we consider ourselves athletes because we work out and pay attention to our diet?[/quote]
I’m a competitive BBer (lucky me, I can see I’m highly revered here).
I perform the three powerlifting lifts, not to the level of a p/lifter, but to a much more STRENGTH than the average man.
I also perform some of the O lifts and variants, again not heavy but relatively SKILLFULLY and with plenty of SPEED!
I stretch and am therefore relatively SUPPLE.
Finally, at certain times of the year I perform lots of intense cardio using various equipment. My fastest 2000m row is 6:41.6, again not great, but not bad for a guy who’s 5’6". Surely my STAMINA is relatively good.
There we have it! All the components for athleticism.
Oh, adn your drugs argument is absolute drivvle.
Pro BBers do what they get paid for. They are world beaters in terms of muscular size and condition. Just like Dave Tate is a world beater in muscular strength and Lance Armstrong in endurance.
It’s horses for courses my friend
Wheels
[quote]steelwheels wrote:
paul bunyan wrote:
Shouldn’t an athlete be someone who is athletic? Is a beauty pagent contestant any less athletic than a bodybuilder? They both spend much time and effort in preparation for contests. I know you still have to work for gains even on steroids, but with the ammount these guys take there is not so much grueling effort involved. Their articles in fitness rags don’t show much intelligence about training. I bet most on T-Nation work as hard as they do. But do we consider ourselves athletes because we work out and pay attention to our diet?
I’m a competitive BBer (lucky me, I can see I’m highly revered here).
I perform the three powerlifting lifts, not to the level of a p/lifter, but to a much more STRENGTH than the average man.
I also perform some of the O lifts and variants, again not heavy but relatively SKILLFULLY and with plenty of SPEED!
I stretch and am therefore relatively SUPPLE.
Finally, at certain times of the year I perform lots of intense cardio using various equipment. My fastest 2000m row is 6:41.6, again not great, but not bad for a guy who’s 5’6". Surely my STAMINA is relatively good.
There we have it! All the components for athleticism.
Oh, adn your drugs argument is absolute drivvle.
Pro BBers do what they get paid for. They are world beaters in terms of muscular size and condition. Just like Dave Tate is a world beater in muscular strength and Lance Armstrong in endurance.
It’s horses for courses my friend
Wheels
[/quote]
A beauty pageant contestant also trains, diets, and works on various posing routines. That doesn’t make them athletic. It’s talent and skill. Additionally, it’s OK for a beauty pageant contestant to shave her ass and I more than condone them giving judges head. However I feel the opposite with bodybuilders.
I posted this before but apparently, I really do suck at teh internet. One key difference is ability. Now you take Mr. Joe Average and lock him in a room. Force him to train, force him to eat, and inject him with fun drugs and you’ll get a pretty damn fine bodybuilder. Not a world class one but one that could do well. The same goes with powerlifting. It’s not all that hard, you eat, you lift and you learn the gear. It takes a ton of work and desire but it’s not all that athletic.
Now you take the same Mr. Joe Average and lock him in a room and no matter what you do he will never be a good athlete unless he has that crazy mixed up thing called talent.
Training does not make an individual an athlete. In fact, the more elite an athlete is, the more they can deviate from what we would call optimal training and diet patterns. In fact, this is why we see so many elite level athletes eating and training like shit. It’s there crazy talent not their training and diet that makes them good.
Also, Dave Tate isn’t crazy strong. I’ve got mad respect for him and have learn a ton from his mind but he is far from a “world beater.” Dave is recognized for his wonderful brain.
[quote]steelwheels wrote:
paul bunyan wrote:
Shouldn’t an athlete be someone who is athletic? Is a beauty pagent contestant any less athletic than a bodybuilder? They both spend much time and effort in preparation for contests. I know you still have to work for gains even on steroids, but with the ammount these guys take there is not so much grueling effort involved. Their articles in fitness rags don’t show much intelligence about training. I bet most on T-Nation work as hard as they do. But do we consider ourselves athletes because we work out and pay attention to our diet?
I’m a competitive BBer (lucky me, I can see I’m highly revered here).
I perform the three powerlifting lifts, not to the level of a p/lifter, but to a much more STRENGTH than the average man.
I also perform some of the O lifts and variants, again not heavy but relatively SKILLFULLY and with plenty of SPEED!
I stretch and am therefore relatively SUPPLE.
Finally, at certain times of the year I perform lots of intense cardio using various equipment. My fastest 2000m row is 6:41.6, again not great, but not bad for a guy who’s 5’6". Surely my STAMINA is relatively good.
There we have it! All the components for athleticism.
Oh, adn your drugs argument is absolute drivvle.
Pro BBers do what they get paid for. They are world beaters in terms of muscular size and condition. Just like Dave Tate is a world beater in muscular strength and Lance Armstrong in endurance.
It’s horses for courses my friend
Wheels
[/quote]
No offense, but your point is relatively useless. To prove that you are an athlete says nothing about body building as a whole. I have run across athletic body builders many times, this does not make the sport of body building an athletic one. It can simply be said that some athletes choose to body build, but not all body builders are athletes. Nonetheless; it remains amazing what body builders are capable of.
[quote]Why does anyone care that some choose to call it a sport? If fishing and hot dog eating can be called a sport, bodybuilding can as well.
Along with that, why does anyone care that some don’t consider it a sport? What does that change?
The only thing that gets to me is those who claim that looking like a pro bodybuilder is an easy task or that drugs are the only thing seperating “a guy who lifts weights” from “Mr. Olympia”. That’s retarded. I doubt anyone using this forum regularly has the genes to beat Ronnie Coleman in mass and strength (at that level of conditioning) regardless of the use of chemicals. [/quote]
Well with me the thing that gets me is when people confuse dedication with atheletecism. I just can’t see how people do not differentiate between an athelete and a bodybuilder. No one denies that one can be both, but they are not one and the same. It’s incredibly frustrating to listen to people talk about what great “atheletes” bodybuilders are, when they should in fact say what great BODYBUILDERS they are.
http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/./1/.1130418436133.wheele17.jpg
Which look do we like more?
or this
I can’t believe this doesn’t have a TUBE STEAK BOOGIE yet…
Semantic arguments are cabbage.
[quote]W.E.C wrote:
I can’t believe this doesn’t have a TUBE STEAK BOOGIE yet…
Semantic arguments are cabbage.[/quote]
HaHaHa, funny, but true!
[quote]RickJames wrote:
People bust their ass to get a good SAT score too. Perhaps every kid with a pocket protector is an athlete. [/quote]
Dude, those kids with pocket protectors are MATHletes.
For the “bodybuilders are/are not athletes” argument, bodybuilding is a sport (as far as I’m concerned) because they are competing and being scored. Does this make beauty pagents into sports? Perhaps. As far as if they are athletes are not, I would define athletics as the ability run, jump, or physically perform in a competition. Therefore, some bodybuilders are/can be athletes, but not all of them.
As for the disrespect that is being thrown around for profesional bodybuilders, those guys do what they do for a check. Ronnie grew a GH gut to get paid, and guess what? he does. Now I’m not talkin’ about all that suckin’ dick and havin’ someone take nudy pictures of you for cash because that is not required to be a good bodybuilder (only, in some cases, to be a successful one). What I am talking about is busting your ass and doing drugs and getting freakishly large.
It’s all done for money, and I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I thought this was America! And here in America we like money. If you don’t like money you can go back to communist China (yes, you read it right, make fun of Ronnie and you are a communist, argue with that, I dare you!).
GH gutz are soooooo sexy…oh…oh…oh…aaaaawwwll over the screeen…
[quote]W.E.C wrote:
I can’t believe this doesn’t have a TUBE STEAK BOOGIE yet…
Semantic arguments are cabbage.[/quote]
d00d, you are teh r3tard. samentic argumants are brockley.
I just think it’s a tragedy that bodybuilding has gone from guys like Arnold and Frank Zane to Ronnie and Jay Cutler.
Those “against” states that how you train does not make you an athlete, as long as the competition is about how you look, nothing else.
Those “for” keeps repeating that BB’s train hard…
Funny!
My worthless 2 cents is that a bodybuilders training/nutritional regime has all the hallmarks of an athlete but bodybuilding competitions are not athletic events or are not a sport. Other than the endurance involved in the hard contractions of posing while in a carb depleted state, I don’t see any expressions of athleticism at a competition. What they do in the gym is another matter.
I view the competitions as more akin to ‘performance art’ or something like that.
