Mosley-Mayweather

Training
101

[quote]cutthoat25 wrote:

[quote]goldengloves wrote:

Freddie Roach has been on record saying he’s no problem with a cutoff date on testing and Pacquiao says he’ll agree to a 24 day cutoff. Mayweather has been offering a 14 day cutoff but I think they can meet in the middle with a 19 day cutoff, then they’ve a chance to take on the highest ranked opponent possible in the biggest fight possible, and Pacquiao can’t really hold out for the 24 day cutoff since Mayweather seems to be to big name in boxing once again.

Just seen on ESPN breaking news that Pacquiao went on record as saying he will now consider 14 day cutoff so we wil see…[/quote]

=0 REALLY?!?!?!!

But last I heard from Mayweather in an interview he said that he gave Pacman a 14 day window to be gracious but now if Pacman wants to fight him that offer is out the window! Hopefully Mayweather doesn’t stay true to that and we can see this fight happen.

102

[quote]Pretzel Logic wrote:
I like the fact Irish said Pacquiao would get slaughtered. So I guess Pacman gives Floyd his first loss by KO? Just kidding.
[/quote]

Fuck all you guys. My friends have been giving me the same shit. haha.

It’s so difficult to pick the right guy it’s crazy. Angelo Dundee picked Hatton over Pac, and Shane over Floyd. Who knows more about boxing than that guy?

But Floyd really needs to fight Pac. There’s not much else I want to see… if Floyd loses to martinez, people will say (and rightly so) that he lost at middleweight after starting out at 130. That’s 30 lbs… and a lot of height.

I would like to see him fight Martinez though.

103

[quote]goldengloves wrote:

[quote]drewh wrote:
Is anyone else more interested in Floyd fighting Martinez than Pacman, their contrast of styles is really interesting. Both slick but Sergio probably has more power and is a little more unorthodox less defensive, Floyd just as slick probably the better boxer and way more defensive.[/quote]

Mayweather/Pacquiao is the bigger PPV, Mayweather/Martinez is the bigger test. I’d like to see both fights happen and it’s possible it to see both in the future. Mayweather isn’t just being arrogant when he says all roads lead to him anymore and Pacquiao’s only viable options are high risk/low reward fights; Devon Alexander, Timothy Bradley, Andre Berto, and Shane Mosley. Pacquiao has already stated that he’s no interest in a rubber match with Marquez, a rematch with Cotto wont be appealing, and I don’t think anyone will support a fight with Margarito so those that I’ve listed are really his only fights other than Floyd Mayweather and they wont generate the revenue or prove as much as a Floyd Mayweather fight.

Freddie Roach has been on record saying he’s no problem with a cutoff date on testing and Pacquiao says he’ll agree to a 24 day cutoff. Mayweather has been offering a 14 day cutoff but I think they can meet in the middle with a 19 day cutoff, then they’ve a chance to take on the highest ranked opponent possible in the biggest fight possible, and Pacquiao can’t really hold out for the 24 day cutoff since Mayweather seems to be to big name in boxing once again.

[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:
Martinez isn’t refined enough to compete with mayweather. He’s quick but I don’t think would be quick enough either. He leaves himself open far too much which Floyd would capitalize on and totally dominate the fight in my opinion. Martinez just isn’t quick enough, leaves himself open far too much, and doesn’t have the movement or timing needed to contend with mayweather.[/quote]

If Martinez has no chance of competing with Mayweather then Mayweather practically owns junior welterweight-middleweight.[/quote]

I agree Golden. All good points. But I don’t think that Mayweather owns that division just yet- I mean again, look at the size of some of the guys in that division. They’re full size fighters, and Floys is only 5’8.

unfortunately, I think the best fight skillwise would be him vs. Andre Ward- they’re both slick, tough guys… I wish Floyd was a bit bigger so we could see it.

104

[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:
^ It’s not about who Floyd had fought in the past that fights like Martinez, it’s about what it takes to beat a guy like Floyd. The reason Floyd makes so much money in his fights is because people always throw new fighters at him and say “this guy can really make him work, or if this guy can’t beat him no one can, or he’s never faced anyone like so and so”. Don’t look at the fighter and say well he’s good so I bet he can beat mayweather, look at exactly what it would take to beat Floyd and judge if that fighter has it. I don’t look at records to determine who I think would be a great matchup, I look at styles. Martinez isn’t anything special, he a bit unorthodox and aggressive and strong but nothing that to me warrants the term “special” and it will take a special fighter to beat Floyd. Williams found a way to beat him and Mayweather would easily do the same.

As I said, the skills needed to beat Mayweather are as follows:

  1. Speed
  2. Extremely High work rate
  3. Ability to throw while being hit or movin backwards
  4. Throw from different angles to keep Floyd guessing
  5. Great Footwork
  6. Amazing stamina
  7. Mental Toughness
  8. Great ring generalship

Having said that, I think Pacquiao is the better matchup.[/quote]

Good list but ring generalship or boxing SKILL should be numero uno…listen to roger and floyd sr. in the corner all they ever say to lil floyd is “just keep boxing this guy he aint got nuthin on you” or “were not bangers were boxers, keep workin this mutha fucker”. Thats all you hear and its soooooo true, it cant be stressed enough.

105

True that’s why I think ODLH did so well.

106

to add to that …they dont even care about speed and power, they think and react, angles and position

107

[quote]drewh wrote:
True that’s why I think ODLH did so well.[/quote]
x2

108

[quote]cutthoat25 wrote:

[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:
^ It’s not about who Floyd had fought in the past that fights like Martinez, it’s about what it takes to beat a guy like Floyd. The reason Floyd makes so much money in his fights is because people always throw new fighters at him and say “this guy can really make him work, or if this guy can’t beat him no one can, or he’s never faced anyone like so and so”. Don’t look at the fighter and say well he’s good so I bet he can beat mayweather, look at exactly what it would take to beat Floyd and judge if that fighter has it. I don’t look at records to determine who I think would be a great matchup, I look at styles. Martinez isn’t anything special, he a bit unorthodox and aggressive and strong but nothing that to me warrants the term “special” and it will take a special fighter to beat Floyd. Williams found a way to beat him and Mayweather would easily do the same.

As I said, the skills needed to beat Mayweather are as follows:

  1. Speed
  2. Extremely High work rate
  3. Ability to throw while being hit or movin backwards
  4. Throw from different angles to keep Floyd guessing
  5. Great Footwork
  6. Amazing stamina
  7. Mental Toughness
  8. Great ring generalship

Having said that, I think Pacquiao is the better matchup.[/quote]

Good list but ring generalship or boxing SKILL should be numero uno…listen to roger and floyd sr. in the corner all they ever say to lil floyd is “just keep boxing this guy he aint got nuthin on you” or “were not bangers were boxers, keep workin this mutha fucker”. Thats all you hear and its soooooo true, it cant be stressed enough.[/quote]
True but to me boxing skill is a vague term, which doesn’t say much. Marquez has great boxing skill but got murdered, so there are other factors to be considered that will greatly affect the outcome of the fight. Look at what Castillo did to him in their first fight. He made him work, and owned the ring, and kept his work rate high. I think Pacman is twice the fighter Castillo was (i’m talking in his prime, his last fight was embarrassing). Use the same basic principles Castillo used, but add the great speed, footwork, and power of Pacquiao and you have quite the contender.

109

[quote]cutthoat25 wrote:

[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:
^ It’s not about who Floyd had fought in the past that fights like Martinez, it’s about what it takes to beat a guy like Floyd. The reason Floyd makes so much money in his fights is because people always throw new fighters at him and say “this guy can really make him work, or if this guy can’t beat him no one can, or he’s never faced anyone like so and so”. Don’t look at the fighter and say well he’s good so I bet he can beat mayweather, look at exactly what it would take to beat Floyd and judge if that fighter has it. I don’t look at records to determine who I think would be a great matchup, I look at styles. Martinez isn’t anything special, he a bit unorthodox and aggressive and strong but nothing that to me warrants the term “special” and it will take a special fighter to beat Floyd. Williams found a way to beat him and Mayweather would easily do the same.

As I said, the skills needed to beat Mayweather are as follows:

  1. Speed
  2. Extremely High work rate
  3. Ability to throw while being hit or movin backwards
  4. Throw from different angles to keep Floyd guessing
  5. Great Footwork
  6. Amazing stamina
  7. Mental Toughness
  8. Great ring generalship

Having said that, I think Pacquiao is the better matchup.[/quote]

Good list but ring generalship or boxing SKILL should be numero uno…listen to roger and floyd sr. in the corner all they ever say to lil floyd is “just keep boxing this guy he aint got nuthin on you” or “were not bangers were boxers, keep workin this mutha fucker”. Thats all you hear and its soooooo true, it cant be stressed enough.[/quote]

I should also mention I wasn’t putting that list in any particular order, just threw qualities out there as they came to me.

110

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]goldengloves wrote:

[quote]drewh wrote:
Is anyone else more interested in Floyd fighting Martinez than Pacman, their contrast of styles is really interesting. Both slick but Sergio probably has more power and is a little more unorthodox less defensive, Floyd just as slick probably the better boxer and way more defensive.[/quote]

Mayweather/Pacquiao is the bigger PPV, Mayweather/Martinez is the bigger test. I’d like to see both fights happen and it’s possible it to see both in the future. Mayweather isn’t just being arrogant when he says all roads lead to him anymore and Pacquiao’s only viable options are high risk/low reward fights; Devon Alexander, Timothy Bradley, Andre Berto, and Shane Mosley. Pacquiao has already stated that he’s no interest in a rubber match with Marquez, a rematch with Cotto wont be appealing, and I don’t think anyone will support a fight with Margarito so those that I’ve listed are really his only fights other than Floyd Mayweather and they wont generate the revenue or prove as much as a Floyd Mayweather fight.

Freddie Roach has been on record saying he’s no problem with a cutoff date on testing and Pacquiao says he’ll agree to a 24 day cutoff. Mayweather has been offering a 14 day cutoff but I think they can meet in the middle with a 19 day cutoff, then they’ve a chance to take on the highest ranked opponent possible in the biggest fight possible, and Pacquiao can’t really hold out for the 24 day cutoff since Mayweather seems to be to big name in boxing once again.

[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:
Martinez isn’t refined enough to compete with mayweather. He’s quick but I don’t think would be quick enough either. He leaves himself open far too much which Floyd would capitalize on and totally dominate the fight in my opinion. Martinez just isn’t quick enough, leaves himself open far too much, and doesn’t have the movement or timing needed to contend with mayweather.[/quote]

If Martinez has no chance of competing with Mayweather then Mayweather practically owns junior welterweight-middleweight.[/quote]

I agree Golden. All good points. But I don’t think that Mayweather owns that division just yet- I mean again, look at the size of some of the guys in that division. They’re full size fighters, and Floys is only 5’8.

unfortunately, I think the best fight skillwise would be him vs. Andre Ward- they’re both slick, tough guys… I wish Floyd was a bit bigger so we could see it. [/quote]

There are no junior welterweights that can beat Mayweather, in my opinion there are no welterweights that can beat him, no junior middleweights[other than Martinez], and if Martinez can’t compete with Mayweather then there are no middleweights that can beat him either. A middleweight could really test Floyd, especially someone like Williams or Martinez[Pavlik would lose].

Martinez is definitely the biggest threat to Mayweather[in my opinion]. If Pacquiao were bigger I’d give him a better chance, but I just can’t see him boxing with Floyd Mayweather. Mayweather is going to make Pacquiao come to him, Mayweather can counter him, catch him coming in, and keep him at a distance with his jab. I see it as a competitive Mayweather/Marquez.

Martinez however is a slick junior middleweight/middleweight that has the size advantage, is fast/athletic enough to come in and out on Mayweather, and is active. Out of the current possible opponents I’d give him the best chance of changing Mayweather’s record to 41-1.

[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:
^ It’s not about who Floyd had fought in the past that fights like Martinez, it’s about what it takes to beat a guy like Floyd. The reason Floyd makes so much money in his fights is because people always throw new fighters at him and say “this guy can really make him work, or if this guy can’t beat him no one can, or he’s never faced anyone like so and so”. Don’t look at the fighter and say well he’s good so I bet he can beat mayweather, look at exactly what it would take to beat Floyd and judge if that fighter has it. I don’t look at records to determine who I think would be a great matchup, I look at styles. Martinez isn’t anything special, he a bit unorthodox and aggressive and strong but nothing that to me warrants the term “special” and it will take a special fighter to beat Floyd. Williams found a way to beat him and Mayweather would easily do the same.

As I said, the skills needed to beat Mayweather are as follows:

  1. Speed
  2. Extremely High work rate
  3. Ability to throw while being hit or movin backwards
  4. Throw from different angles to keep Floyd guessing
  5. Great Footwork
  6. Amazing stamina
  7. Mental Toughness
  8. Great ring generalship

Having said that, I think Pacquiao is the better matchup.[/quote]

It’s kind of funny that you list those qualities then discredit Martinez, he possesses them and flaunted them against Williams. Watch the fight, you’ll see a lucky decision for Williams. People have also found ways to beat Pacquiao so it’s not as if he’s undefeated. I’m having a hard time seeing how you can think Mayweather will easily dominate Martinez yet Pacquiao will have Mayweather at his wits end.

111

Face it guys, Mayweather will not lose a professional bout in his entire career. He will lay the same beating to Pacman as he would to Martinez and every other clown dumb enough to fight him. He is just way too good, has never been fully stretched in a fight and is too smart to keep fighting after he degenerates with age. Best boxer of all time in my opinion, its a privilege to watch such genius.

112

no, just no…

there are a fuck load of dudes that whoop on Floyd from the past.

113

Floyd is my favorite fighter ever…of all time! but I cant give him that crown of all-time greatest. not yet anyway. Its hard to judge it like that, there just isn’t any fighters besides Pac who are truly great Athletes aswell as boxers in this crop. Mayweather wont be tested like the greats from the past were, so how do you judge him? and where does that leave him? We cant just simply say Ray Leonard would kick his ass, or Hagler would push his face in. when its all said and done we can just put him in that group, not on top and not on bottom.

114

Jesus Christ he beat Shane and now he’s God, fighters of the past fought all comers and more frequently than once or twice a year. Floyd is good but come on people.

115

[quote]drewh wrote:
Jesus Christ he beat Shane and now he’s God, fighters of the past fought all comers and more frequently than once or twice a year. Floyd is good but come on people.[/quote]

I some wut agree w/ this…not fully the fight game isnt as brutal as it was

116

[quote]Live4Deadlift wrote:
Face it guys, Mayweather will not lose a professional bout in his entire career. He will lay the same beating to Pacman as he would to Martinez and every other clown dumb enough to fight him. He is just way too good, has never been fully stretched in a fight and is too smart to keep fighting after he degenerates with age. Best boxer of all time in my opinion, its a privilege to watch such genius.[/quote]

That’s simply not true. Martinez is two inches taller and has a 4" longer reach, is a southpaw and fights in what’s possibly the most unorthodox, unconvetional style out there.

Floyd is incapable of hurting Martinez with any punch- he hasn’t carried his power to welterweight, much less to fuckin Middleweight. That fight is not one where any “beat down” is going to happen. Floyd might be able to win on points because he’s so accurate, but he would need to be seriously wary of any man that can floor Paul Williams.

I’m not speculating on who would win, because Floyd is a better boxer technically but is at many disadvantages for that fight, even if it was at 154.

Now as far as Floyd- he’s the best of our time, no doubt. But of all time? Absolutely not. Di you realize the names that have sat at welterweight? Henry Armstrong, Sugar Ray Robinson, Sugar Ray Leonard, Thomas Hearns, Duran, Chavez, Pernell Whitaker, Trinidad, DLH, Quartey, Forrest… do you really think that he’d beat them?

Especially, ESPECIALLY, fighters like Hearns who were absolutely devastatingly powerful, Leonard, who could outbox anyone, and Sweet Pea, who Floyd wouldn’t be able to hit.

Do you think that if he met Hagler at 154, he wins?

C’mon man. Floyd’s great, no doubt, and he’s comparable to those fighters. But to say that he’s the best of all time is a stretch and a half, especially considering some of his competition.

117

[quote]cutthoat25 wrote:
Floyd is my favorite fighter ever…of all time! but I cant give him that crown of all-time greatest. not yet anyway. Its hard to judge it like that, there just isn’t any fighters besides Pac who are truly great Athletes aswell as boxers in this crop. Mayweather wont be tested like the greats from the past were, so how do you judge him? and where does that leave him? We cant just simply say Ray Leonard would kick his ass, or Hagler would push his face in. when its all said and done we can just put him in that group, not on top and not on bottom.[/quote]

It’s not difficult to say Hagler would strip Mayweather of his unbeaten record.

118

[quote]goldengloves wrote:

[quote]cutthoat25 wrote:
Floyd is my favorite fighter ever…of all time! but I cant give him that crown of all-time greatest. not yet anyway. Its hard to judge it like that, there just isn’t any fighters besides Pac who are truly great Athletes aswell as boxers in this crop. Mayweather wont be tested like the greats from the past were, so how do you judge him? and where does that leave him? We cant just simply say Ray Leonard would kick his ass, or Hagler would push his face in. when its all said and done we can just put him in that group, not on top and not on bottom.[/quote]

It’s not difficult to say Hagler would strip Mayweather of his unbeaten record.

[/quote]

I get what your sayin, but we cant answer it that easily…would hagler just punch through Floyds gloves and arms? would floyd be able to avoid exchanging with hagler and pick and choose when engage? I actually think Hagler would win, but Im not gonna just discredit a fighter of Floyds caliber

119

I will it’s mostly common sense.

120

I would go as far as to say that I think DLH could have beat Floyd in a rematch. The fight had DLH chasing Floyd most of the fight, but if he had kept his jab up the entire fight it would have been a much closer match and with DLH being the smart fighter that he was, I do believe in a rematch he would’ve made the adjustments to beat him, especially if he was in his prime.

Floyd cannot be compared to the boxing greats, he has not been tested enough in my opinion. Boxing greats took on ALL challengers and fought anyone willing to move up the ranks to challenge them. Mayweather’s “I do this for money” attitude will keep him from going in the history books as being one of the greatest of all time simply because there’s plenty of fighters he didn’t fight. I think Robinson would easily hand Floyd a loss.