Another thing, the reason it may seem that guys are always on a cutting cycle, is because it is harder to cut, than to gain (for most anyways). People seem to need more help/info/support when cutting, therefore majority of the posts asking for help (except for the newbies, but even alot of them want to lose BF) are directed towards cutting.
I work in the modelling buisness( no, not “makin some extra cash”- I work full time as a model, currently in Milan) and focus mainly on strength trainig and maintaining a cut physique, so my objective is rather different from yours, which seems to be building mass. I agree that 165 lbs is not much though- my plan is to add another 10-15 bls of LBM to my frame. If I go beyond that, I would probably be considered an EX-model because more than size 50( suit) wont get you any jobs=)
I’ve also noticed, even on this forum the amount of people “cutting”. Hell I’m one of em! The difference is I’m 250lb at 18%. IMO, there are way to many people here trying for the coveted single digits who once there will discover that they have to show their training and nutrition logs as proof that they workout. If, as Ko says, it’s sports-specific then fine but I think it has more to do with the perception that a visible 6 pack is synonymous with being in shape. I want the visible abs as proof to myself that they exist…but will look like a beast with the muscle I’ve grown along the way. I guess my rant is if you’re not keeping weight down because of sport or work then cutting at 150lbs seems ridiculous. Addressing the original topic of this post…I pray that my body decides that the lower bodyfat becomes it’s new setpoint. My friend is a natural 9% and he warned me of the “experience” of being at 5 & 6%. He even mentioned at the discomfort of sitting for too long…
To Sprawl, take care of your business then. It would be great if everyone who goes the “toning” route was doing so because they are trying to maintain a career in the modeling industry. I know that the limit is usually smaller than a size 50 suit. As far as KO’s response that everyone finds it so much harder to lose than to gain, I disagree with this as a reason for what I stated above. Most people seem to be bypassing the mass gaining altogether as if they are about to gain pounds of muscle mass while maintaining a 5% body fat reading at the same time. Professional bodybuilders don’t even do that. Sports and professional modeling aside, I know you know what I am talking about.
Dr. X.,
Your point is very valid here, and I feel I need to explain myself. Here is my thinking. I did bulk up, and it wasn’t until i looked at photos that I was “relatively” soft at around 10% body fat. I did put on serious mass (came from 4%, no shit) and initially it was hard to see the hardness go away, but then you just forget about it mentally until its time to cut. Now, when I cut, the same thing applies. My logic is why would one bulk at 6% body fat, when they legitimately, through ultra-strict dieting and “semi-starvation” get to 4%. If you start at a lower body fat, gains you will make should proporotinally be more muscle mass (if you structure it right and eat right). Now, the question of what look I am going for depends. During the summer, I want the ripped-up look. Then, its time to get big during the winter. However, I’d be lying to you if I said there aren’t days when i go into the gym (literally back-to-back) the first day saying, dayam, i need to be bigger, the next saying, shi- the abs aren’t where I want them. Its a psychological mind game I continually play with myself. Yeah, I know its messed up if you will, but hell, its just the way I play it. The same mentality applies in my chosen field of work. Go full tilt till you can go no more or can’t learn any more. Yeah, I’ll be honest, maintaining low ass body fat is a byatch, but if it makes you feel “psychologically” on top of the world (not necessarily at the expense of physical issues) then its worth it. Eventually my body will basically say “Vain, its time to stop cutting, you need to get big again” and I’ll just start naturally eating over mntc, but this time, in my head, I won’t be as worried about losing the abs per se…Its weird, but its just the way it plays.
Peace
Vain
I think that most of the regulars who post here, and anyone who has done their reading understands that if you are trying to gain muscle ,your going gain fat also. Its a trade off. Summer is coming so many people are cutting, once summer is over they will more than likely start bulking. in order to bulk you lift big and eat big, not much to it, though the eating part can be tough. In order to lose those last few pounds of body fat, it takes some serious work, and I think that many people get stuck and need help, more so than those bulking.
Patricia,
I found your comment that we need to get our body get used to being at a certain BF% very interesting. Let's suppose that a woman (or a man) who lost 5%BF wants to stay at that BF% level. How long should this person stay there until the body says, "OK, I got it. You want to stay this way, and I'm OK w/ it." Or is it too individual to tell?
Thanks.
Stella: Well, it is HIGHLY individual. I KNOW what works for me. I know there is absolutely NO WAY ever I will maintain 6% beyond competition purposes.
I guess you could say this: you would know when you're at a BF% that is TOO low. You can feel it - in your bones, literally. Competitive bodybuilding is NOT the healthiest of athletic endeavors. It's harbors with our most obsessive natures. Not good. And by having to obtain the low BF% is crazy (IMO). However, it's only for one weekend (at least, in my case). I prefer 10-11%. I operate better.
I learned this via trial and error. Which is how most will learn about their bodies. Which is how you'll learn at what "set point" is good for you. If you've been at a somewhat high BF for awhile, it will take some kindly "urging" to get your body useto something lower. As Jason Norcross had said in another thread, it's good to make the loss gradual.
Don’t have anything to add to the bodyfat debate, just wanted to second Mufasa’s comment about it’s being nice to have the Prof back on the board. For those who are new to the Forum, Professor X is one of those nice-to-have-around posters who actually knows his stuff. Definitely a contributor! Now if Bodz would just show up again…
Patricia,
Thank you for your response. I see how that works. I do remember that when I was trying to lean last winter, I thought I'd die of hypothermia everyday. My teeth will chatter in the office with my coat on, and it's not because my office building manager's too cheap to provide us with the proper heating.
OTOH -- if my body doesn't want to go below the BF% I got when I was leaning like that I'm going to have an issue. X-( I honestly want to get lower. I guess I need to experiment more. :)
How has the speed of dropping fat affected everyone? Has anyone dropped their percentages at an extremely slow rate? I would assume that stretching out the time spent dropping may help the body’s reaction to extremely low BF%, although impractical for many here.
The Mage wrote on 2002-05-22 05:24:21
How has the speed of dropping fat affected everyone? Has anyone dropped their percentages at an extremely slow rate? I would assume that stretching out the time spent dropping may help the body’s reaction to extremely low BF%, although impractical for many here.
-I have taken much longer than before to drop weight this year for many reasons (from finals to stress overall which could increase the amount of muscle I lose if I go all out on dropping calories and cardio). I took from Feb until now to drop from 243lbs to my current weight of 221 and I have gotten stronger because of it and others comment that I look bigger, not smaller. I did no cardio until after finals (except occasionally on the weekends) and allowed the weight to come off just by dropping fast food out of my diet. I am not extremely analytical about what I eat as I don’t see the need for that. I go by what I see in the mirror and my strength levels. I usually try to lose faster than that but I feel more energetic and stronger than when I have dropped at a faster rate. I also allow myself a cheat meal almost every fourth or fifth day. It all depends on the individual’s genetics when it comes to what they experience as far as muscle loss, but the slower the weight comes off, the better chance you have of holding on to muscle and possibly gaining some.