More and More Betas at My Gym

Off Topic
41

[quote]flyboy51v wrote:

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:

[quote]flyboy51v wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:
Aw this thread was a bit of a letdown. It was some guy ragging on beginners. Potentially salvageable I guess.

I am actually pretty interested in the topic of more and more “beta males” coming into being in today’s society. For the last several years at least, pretty much from birth masculine traits seem to have been increasingly suppressed and viewed as negative. You’ve heard the old trope about “everyone gets a trophy”. Well it’s become a cliche because it’s true! Competition and winning, especially individualistically, has seemingly become a vice.

Little boys are genetically hardwired to be active, energetic, competitive, and aggressive (yes aggression is not necessarily a bad thing if properly applied). What happens nowadays is they go to school exhibiting these healthy traits and their mothers are promptly told that they have ADHD and they’re reduced to drugged up zombies. Zombies who are then taught how bad it is to be manly.

I feel like masculinity is being sort of demonized, and what happens is you’re left with a generation saturated with boys who grow into men who heavily lack assertiveness and confidence and just plain manliness.

And to relate more to the OP, I see it often in the gym. I train in a place with a lot of high school athletes, and so many of them seem to lack that certain spark. They just go through the motions. So many of them don’t have any aggressiveness or competitiveness to speak of. It’s very different even than when I was back in high school (only 7 or 8 years ago). [/quote]

Good Lord … I am NOT ragging on newbies. That’s how everyone is treating it. Everyone has been a newbie at one point or another.

I love fit women … I love strong women … who want to be around out of shape weak women???

I’m simply saying I’m seeing a lot of guys that should be men … but are still boys …

I don’t advocate not giving them help … I’m glad they’re finally getting in shape … it really has nothing to do with these two. I really don’t even know their personal stories … Im just seeing a LOT MORE OF THEM. It ain’t a good thing …

[/quote]

So now you’ve shifted your focus to insulting these out of shape weak BETA women? … If more newbies are showing up at the gym … Maybe it’s because … The weak people who were originally staying home are taking an active role in bettering themselves … And maybe we can learn to not act like a little sissy boy who was raised on a farm and played outside … And start tolerating those who are different than us … And not label people … It’s a good thing …
[/quote]

So I said something. You misinterpreted it. Then when I tell you what i meant you say I’m shifing focus. What I’m doing is shifting you back to my point. There’s absolutely no doubt that adolescence has been extended from the age of 16 to the age of 30 and beyond. I’m just starting to see it at the gym.

And the use of “tolerance” is simply a technique designed to prevent any criticism or argument. If tolerance is our goal than there can be no social criticism.

[/quote]

No, using tolerance is a technique designed so people mind their own business. I misinterpreted nothing. You said you’ve seen more weak people at the gym. The only situation you offered up was conjecture about how that means there’s more weak people. I see just as many fit people on the street today as I did 10 years ago. More weak people at the gym means more people are going to the gym, and just that. Saying this reflects some upward trend of betaness is silly.

The only problem I see isn’t with the amount of strong people in the world, it’s that the average people are being replaced with fat people.

42

[quote]csulli wrote:
Aw this thread was a bit of a letdown. It was some guy ragging on beginners. Potentially salvageable I guess.

I am actually pretty interested in the topic of more and more “beta males” coming into being in today’s society. For the last several years at least, pretty much from birth masculine traits seem to have been increasingly suppressed and viewed as negative. You’ve heard the old trope about “everyone gets a trophy”. Well it’s become a cliche because it’s true! Competition and winning, especially individualistically, has seemingly become a vice.

Little boys are genetically hardwired to be active, energetic, competitive, and aggressive (yes aggression is not necessarily a bad thing if properly applied). What happens nowadays is they go to school exhibiting these healthy traits and their mothers are promptly told that they have ADHD and they’re reduced to drugged up zombies. Zombies who are then taught how bad it is to be manly.

I feel like masculinity is being sort of demonized, and what happens is you’re left with a generation saturated with boys who grow into men who heavily lack assertiveness and confidence and just plain manliness.

And to relate more to the OP, I see it often in the gym. I train in a place with a lot of high school athletes, and so many of them seem to lack that certain spark. They just go through the motions. So many of them don’t have any aggressiveness or competitiveness to speak of. It’s very different even than when I was back in high school (only 7 or 8 years ago). [/quote]

I pretty much agree with you and I’ll add to it (and probably make things worse).

I think a big part of what we’re seeing is more women taking working out seriously. Essentially they view it more as training and they focus on monitoring their performance and progress from session to session. I would be willing to bet that many of these women continue training through many of the obstacles members of this forum face: hitting plateaus, injuries etc, and these women figure out what they need to change to keep going

Conversely there are more boys whose goals are to become “toned”, “defined”, etc., say they don’t want to get “big and gross” and fret about minute changes in their appearance from hour to hour. I know from firing many training partners over the past year that these guys want to give up when they don’t make overnight progress, they will not train when sore, and they would rather spin wheels than stick to a program.

The former is stereotypically a more “masculine” approach to training and the latter is more “feminine”, but the genders are reversed now. Young men have a greater need to be coddled than young women these days

43

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

Conversely there are more boys whose goals are to become “toned”, “defined”, etc., say they don’t want to get “big and gross” and fret about minute changes in their appearance from hour to hour. I know from firing many training partners over the past year that these guys want to give up when they don’t make overnight progress, they will not train when sore, and they would rather spin wheels than stick to a program.

The former is stereotypically a more “masculine” approach to training and the latter is more “feminine”, but the genders are reversed now. Young men have a greater need to be coddled than young women these days

[/quote]

Nailed it. Just hop on over to the Steroid forum for examples of that lol. If I had a dime for every one of those “anorexic dude looking to put on 10lbs and get toned, but doesn’t want to get huge and gross” threads…

I think a lot of it is a cultural phenomenon. Back in the 80s, when Arnold and Stallone ruled pop culture, things were different. Now the body that pop culture is selling us as “ideal” is the small, toned body, like Ryan Reynolds, the kid from Twilight, or the CrossFit body. And most people eat this shit up because we believe that the ideal body gets women. Which is the reason 90% of guys work out.

We can only hope the trend reverses.

44

[quote]flyboy51v wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:
Aw this thread was a bit of a letdown. It was some guy ragging on beginners. Potentially salvageable I guess.

I am actually pretty interested in the topic of more and more “beta males” coming into being in today’s society. For the last several years at least, pretty much from birth masculine traits seem to have been increasingly suppressed and viewed as negative. You’ve heard the old trope about “everyone gets a trophy”. Well it’s become a cliche because it’s true! Competition and winning, especially individualistically, has seemingly become a vice.

Little boys are genetically hardwired to be active, energetic, competitive, and aggressive (yes aggression is not necessarily a bad thing if properly applied). What happens nowadays is they go to school exhibiting these healthy traits and their mothers are promptly told that they have ADHD and they’re reduced to drugged up zombies. Zombies who are then taught how bad it is to be manly.

I feel like masculinity is being sort of demonized, and what happens is you’re left with a generation saturated with boys who grow into men who heavily lack assertiveness and confidence and just plain manliness.

And to relate more to the OP, I see it often in the gym. I train in a place with a lot of high school athletes, and so many of them seem to lack that certain spark. They just go through the motions. So many of them don’t have any aggressiveness or competitiveness to speak of. It’s very different even than when I was back in high school (only 7 or 8 years ago). [/quote]

Good Lord … I am NOT ragging on newbies. That’s how everyone is treating it. Everyone has been a newbie at one point or another.

I love fit women … I love strong women … who want to be around out of shape weak women???

I’m simply saying I’m seeing a lot of guys that should be men … but are still boys …

I don’t advocate not giving them help … I’m glad they’re finally getting in shape … it really has nothing to do with these two. I really don’t even know their personal stories … Im just seeing a LOT MORE OF THEM. It ain’t a good thing …

[/quote]

So you’re tired of seeing these twinky little boy types and want to see more big strong men, huh?

Mmmm Hmmm…

You’re probably totally straight too.

45

[quote]flyboy51v wrote:
Point is … our culture (much more so in Europe for that matter) is churning out a generation of some very weak dudes … and I’m seeing more and more of them at the gym …
[/quote]

Point is, you’re weak. You just don’t see it.

You’re weak because you act like you want to change a situation (that there’s a massive increase in ‘beta males’ being produced opposed to in the past), but instead of taking the initiative to take the more difficult, more productive, more proactive, route of taking one of these newbs you see at the gym and showing them the ropes. (Kinda like how the other people in the gym were doing.) Instead, you took the easy, passive aggressive route of going home to anonymously sit behind your computer screen and talk shit about people who you perceive as lesser than you.

A while back, (perhaps a LONG while back), there was a thread about a poster who used to be a regular here, 4est. Somehow he came in contact with a kid who was depressed, had low T, was WEAK, and had no self esteem - instead of coming on here and ragging on how pathetic this kid was, he took the time to mentor him, build him up, and completely turn the kids life around. You know what kind of response that sort of shit gets? Standing ovations. You just sound like a cunt.

I get that you’re pissed about the cultural change about the pussification of men in America, but weakness shows in more ways than just physical. The level of arrogance, passivity, and self-importance you show in your original post is something our culture teaches us younger generations, as well. Just because you can deadlift X amount of pounds doesn’t mean that they’re not stronger than you in other ways. I’d much rather be around someone who can deadlift 135 for a 1RM than someone who’s an arrogant, obnoxious, self-absorbed fuck.

Increase your strength in other areas of your life (like compassion for others less fortunate than you - such as the lost kid who’s trying to improve his physical abilities by hitting the gym who hasn’t come across a resource like T-Nation yet), being assertive in SOLVING problems, and thinking about the negative (“These kids are our future? :/” and “here’s an opportunity to help our future”) are two VERY different mindsets.

If you’re going to bitch about something, at least be part of the solution instead of being part of the problem.

46

How does being physically weak mean beta?

Does that mean people like Bill Gates or Steve Jobs are betas?

47

I think the problem people have is people associate alpha status with physical attributes.
In a way, they are absolutely right. Being a tough/strong S.O.B. does lend itself to being an alpha. If we were all shipped back in to the wild, people like Gates and Jobs would get rocked. The O.P. isn’t wrong in that regard. Those guys are betas, at least when it comes to the physical aspect.

However, now-a-days alpha also means psychological attributes.

There are different levels of alpha, I think. Different kinds for different situations. I doubt Bill Gates would do well as a S.F. assault officer.

I think everyone jumping on the O.P.'s nuts needs to chill. It’s just a different viewpoint, and one that may be archaic in today’s world.

48

No; if we were all magically transported to the stone ages, then men like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs would be the toughest and most powerful(take that term as you will; power need not only be brute strength) motherfuckers around.

What separates them from the rest of humanity is their ruthlessness and work-ethic. Just because they chose to pursue things that aren’t related to physique or strength doesn’t mean that they’re not alphas; and that’s the point.

The folks the OP mentioned could very well be betas. But the assumption that physically weak=beta is just wrong, or that strong=alpha. It doesn’t work in a world where you don’t have to be physically strong to survive.

49

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
I think the problem people have is people associate alpha status with physical attributes.
In a way, they are absolutely right. Being a tough/strong S.O.B. does lend itself to being an alpha. If we were all shipped back in to the wild, people like Gates and Jobs would get rocked.

[/quote]

I don’t know if this is necessarily true. Shipped back to the wild or not, humans will always tend to form somewhat organized groups and affiliations. People who are able to recognize, anticipate and be responsive to the real or perceived needs of other individuals and the group at large will always be able to exert influence over those around them. These people are always able to enlist the aid of the big strong dudes when asses need to be kicked and thus will rarely need to directly kick ass themselves.

The entrepreneurs, the tacticians, the executives, the visionaries will tend to succeed. The specific areas where Gates, Jobs, Ford etc chose to excel would be obsolete if our structure collapsed but the mindset that allowed them to succeed would still be very much relevant, whether they were vigourous physical specimens or not. For whatever reason these men were able to recognize much more clearly than most what survival of the fittest really meant for the age in which they lived. In different times their focus would run in different directions.

Unfortunately for me (or maybe not), I am a big, knuckle-dragging type who never really got that through my thick, sloping uni-brow. Thus I am more likely to be the king’s man as opposed to the king himself.

Edited

50

[quote]Apoklyps wrote:

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

Conversely there are more boys whose goals are to become “toned”, “defined”, etc., say they don’t want to get “big and gross” and fret about minute changes in their appearance from hour to hour. I know from firing many training partners over the past year that these guys want to give up when they don’t make overnight progress, they will not train when sore, and they would rather spin wheels than stick to a program.

The former is stereotypically a more “masculine” approach to training and the latter is more “feminine”, but the genders are reversed now. Young men have a greater need to be coddled than young women these days

[/quote]

Nailed it. Just hop on over to the Steroid forum for examples of that lol. If I had a dime for every one of those “anorexic dude looking to put on 10lbs and get toned, but doesn’t want to get huge and gross” threads…

I think a lot of it is a cultural phenomenon. Back in the 80s, when Arnold and Stallone ruled pop culture, things were different. Now the body that pop culture is selling us as “ideal” is the small, toned body, like Ryan Reynolds, the kid from Twilight, or the CrossFit body. And most people eat this shit up because we believe that the ideal body gets women. Which is the reason 90% of guys work out.

We can only hope the trend reverses.
[/quote]

That’s actually one of the things I was thinking of. Even better, “my gf doesn’t want me to get to big so other girls won’t check me out” lol

I don’t know if the trend will reverse, however, I do know the remainder of this thread will spent arguing about what this all has to do with alpha-ness and beta-ness

51

‘Ragging on OP’ notwithstanding - people fucking about in the gym are a big pain in the arse. Observing this is not ‘beta’ ffs.
Come to work, even if you’re weak, and be normal and civil, that’s cool. But so many don’t do that. Where I’m from we use a term ‘screwface’ which is a defensive countenance which shows hostility to others…So many kids in my gym (which I plan on leaving soon) scowl at bigger guys…and there are many bigger than me who’ve said the same thing to me in conversation. This defensiveness leads to rude, annoying behaviour

2 weird motherfuckers in the last month:

  1. There’s one decline for situps. So I went over like ‘Hi mate, do you mind if I work in with you, on rest periods?’. Little kid on there said no. NO??? Tbh my question was only politeness… So kid proceeded to do about 5 situps (all momentum), alternated with approx 30seconds of just sitting at tge top with his ankles locked in, for 10 fucking minutes, while I stood nearby doing curls and such. Wtf really.
  2. My gym has one long bar only. I wanted to deadlift, but couldn’t - because some genius had slapped 2.5s on it and was doing his 25kg barbell curls

Tl;dr betas get better please because you’re a fucking nuisance.

53

[quote]magick wrote:
No; if we were all magically transported to the stone ages, then men like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs would be the toughest and most powerful(take that term as you will; power need not only be brute strength) motherfuckers around.

What separates them from the rest of humanity is their ruthlessness and work-ethic. Just because they chose to pursue things that aren’t related to physique or strength doesn’t mean that they’re not alphas; and that’s the point.

The folks the OP mentioned could very well be betas. But the assumption that physically weak=beta is just wrong, or that strong=alpha. It doesn’t work in a world where you don’t have to be physically strong to survive.[/quote]

A lot of people on this site equate being a man to lifting iron, which I find absolutely retarded. Bodybuilding has that mindset. I think it isn’t that much of a surprise that some people on this site equate strong with alpha.

54

flyboy = beta

alphaBird.

tweet

55

[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
Point is, you’re weak. You just don’t see it.

You’re weak because you act like you want to change a situation (that there’s a massive increase in ‘beta males’ being produced opposed to in the past), but instead of taking the initiative to take the more difficult, more productive, more proactive, route of taking one of these newbs you see at the gym and showing them the ropes. (Kinda like how the other people in the gym were doing.) Instead, you took the easy, passive aggressive route of going home to anonymously sit behind your computer screen and talk shit about people who you perceive as lesser than you.

A while back, (perhaps a LONG while back), there was a thread about a poster who used to be a regular here, 4est. Somehow he came in contact with a kid who was depressed, had low T, was WEAK, and had no self esteem - instead of coming on here and ragging on how pathetic this kid was, he took the time to mentor him, build him up, and completely turn the kids life around. You know what kind of response that sort of shit gets? Standing ovations. You just sound like a cunt.

I get that you’re pissed about the cultural change about the pussification of men in America, but weakness shows in more ways than just physical. The level of arrogance, passivity, and self-importance you show in your original post is something our culture teaches us younger generations, as well. Just because you can deadlift X amount of pounds doesn’t mean that they’re not stronger than you in other ways. I’d much rather be around someone who can deadlift 135 for a 1RM than someone who’s an arrogant, obnoxious, self-absorbed fuck.

Increase your strength in other areas of your life (like compassion for others less fortunate than you - such as the lost kid who’s trying to improve his physical abilities by hitting the gym who hasn’t come across a resource like T-Nation yet), being assertive in SOLVING problems, and thinking about the negative (“These kids are our future? :/” and “here’s an opportunity to help our future”) are two VERY different mindsets.

If you’re going to bitch about something, at least be part of the solution instead of being part of the problem.[/quote]

Great post! And, I heard you guys were talking about me, whazup?

56

I have a situation I have NEVER run across before. A mom brought her son & daughter (teenagers) in for me to work with (martial arts). They have a multi-cultural “look”, meaning they have the look like “they aren’t from around here” and that’s not necessarily good in these parts. So some self-defense skills might come in handy, or just self-esteem building, general confidence, etc.

The girl 16, is quite naturally athletic, quite strong, and determined to do well…and thoroughly accepts any advice, encouragement, or teaching I try to give her.

The boy is about 14 years old. Maybe weighs 100lbs (guessing) and is about 5’-5". He has absolutely no level of strength whatsoever. Enjoys no physical activity. And predominantly spends his time with video games. He’s book smart, though.

When I say no strength, I mean…NO STRENGTH. He can’t sit down properly. He cant stand properly. Can’t hold a pushup position. To try and do a lunge…he falls over after dipping approximately 3-4", from the top. He practically can’t have a seat without falling down. Nothing inherently wrong with him (he’s “healthy”)/

He needs tons of time and tons of work…much more than the 1 day, 1 hour or so I have for him. He won’t work on anything at home…and his mom doesn’t know what to do with him.

So… I guess I see where the OP is coming from…despite the idiotic beta/beginner bashing post. But there needs to be a new book written…something before Scrawny to Brawny. I almost think this kid I have just needs some steroids to get started.

I actually wish I could quit the bit of teaching/coaching I do ( I have my own life and kids)…until I get someone like this…who needs something, even though he doesn’t want it. A conundrum I guess.

57

[quote]pushharder wrote:

The Murdoch’s of this world don’t “get women.” Their wallets do.

[/quote]

Are you saying, in an alternate universe where he earns a paltry sum but still yields tremendous power and influence, he wouldn’t be able to attract young hotties half his age?

58

[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:

[quote]flyboy51v wrote:
Point is … our culture (much more so in Europe for that matter) is churning out a generation of some very weak dudes … and I’m seeing more and more of them at the gym …
[/quote]

Point is, you’re weak. You just don’t see it.

You’re weak because you act like you want to change a situation (that there’s a massive increase in ‘beta males’ being produced opposed to in the past), but instead of taking the initiative to take the more difficult, more productive, more proactive, route of taking one of these newbs you see at the gym and showing them the ropes. (Kinda like how the other people in the gym were doing.) Instead, you took the easy, passive aggressive route of going home to anonymously sit behind your computer screen and talk shit about people who you perceive as lesser than you.

A while back, (perhaps a LONG while back), there was a thread about a poster who used to be a regular here, 4est. Somehow he came in contact with a kid who was depressed, had low T, was WEAK, and had no self esteem - instead of coming on here and ragging on how pathetic this kid was, he took the time to mentor him, build him up, and completely turn the kids life around. You know what kind of response that sort of shit gets? Standing ovations. You just sound like a cunt.

I get that you’re pissed about the cultural change about the pussification of men in America, but weakness shows in more ways than just physical. The level of arrogance, passivity, and self-importance you show in your original post is something our culture teaches us younger generations, as well. Just because you can deadlift X amount of pounds doesn’t mean that they’re not stronger than you in other ways. I’d much rather be around someone who can deadlift 135 for a 1RM than someone who’s an arrogant, obnoxious, self-absorbed fuck.

Increase your strength in other areas of your life (like compassion for others less fortunate than you - such as the lost kid who’s trying to improve his physical abilities by hitting the gym who hasn’t come across a resource like T-Nation yet), being assertive in SOLVING problems, and thinking about the negative (“These kids are our future? :/” and “here’s an opportunity to help our future”) are two VERY different mindsets.

If you’re going to bitch about something, at least be part of the solution instead of being part of the problem.[/quote]

Yea that’s it. I should try and influence these 30 year old boys. Their parents and teachers and friends and co-workers have failed in the first threed decades but I will persevere. Ill be the father they never had. Ill be like the guy with his finger in the dam. So instead of pointing at the dam and saying “hey guys… the f’ing dam is crumbling” I should shut up unless I can patch it myself. Stop your bitching.

First of all i barely have time to get to the gym myself.
Second of all Im not qualified to teach them anything about lifting. (and didnt indicate in my post that i could) Nor is lifting better going to make men out of them.
Third they havent asked for help.

I was just making an observation. Like observing that we’re on the way to $20 trillion in debt … whereupon someone will now tell me that i should donate $100 to solving the problem and stop bitching …

My actual responsibility is when my wife and i are lucky enough to have a son of our own Its my job to raise the kid into a man. And that of course has nothing to do with a 315 squat. In any case it will be the job of a lifetiime and will take about 20 years of really hard work.

(If i can just keep him out of the little skinny jeans and those little slippers it will be worth it)

The fact remains that Im seeing a lot more 30 year old man-boys … I just hired one at work … Very difficult to even communicate with the kid …

59

[quote]dannyrat wrote:
‘Ragging on OP’ notwithstanding - people fucking about in the gym are a big pain in the arse. Observing this is not ‘beta’ ffs.
Come to work, even if you’re weak, and be normal and civil, that’s cool. But so many don’t do that. Where I’m from we use a term ‘screwface’ which is a defensive countenance which shows hostility to others…So many kids in my gym (which I plan on leaving soon) scowl at bigger guys…and there are many bigger than me who’ve said the same thing to me in conversation. This defensiveness leads to rude, annoying behaviour

2 weird motherfuckers in the last month:

  1. There’s one decline for situps. So I went over like ‘Hi mate, do you mind if I work in with you, on rest periods?’. Little kid on there said no. NO??? Tbh my question was only politeness… So kid proceeded to do about 5 situps (all momentum), alternated with approx 30seconds of just sitting at tge top with his ankles locked in, for 10 fucking minutes, while I stood nearby doing curls and such. Wtf really.
  2. My gym has one long bar only. I wanted to deadlift, but couldn’t - because some genius had slapped 2.5s on it and was doing his 25kg barbell curls

Tl;dr betas get better please because you’re a fucking nuisance. [/quote]
I would never use a barbell for curls if other people were actually training. JM presses (basically a extension/press hybrid that you try to push the elbows as far forward as you can, then kind of do an extension like motion back up, but still looks like a press) on the other hand… Fuck those other people, I need to be able to lock stuff out! Besides, I think I earned it if I can do strict jm presses with more weight/reps than 25-50% the people in the gym can bench. :wink:

DSSG

P.s. Luckily for me I pay for all of my equipment out of my own wallet through work/money given as gifts. So I can yell, and bleed out of the nose as much as I want.

60

IM WITH THE OP HERE

these guys at the gym obviously had the self-loathing type mentality, I CAN’T DOOOOO IT!!! SEEE? I CANNNNTT doo ITT!!

I remember getting pinned under 85lbs when I was 16 on bench going for like 8 reps…I was weak

But some ful grown male cant squat 95 LBS??? At some point you just have to say, youre weak, because of your WEAK MIND because of your LACK OF TESTOSTERONE YOU BETA FUCK!

Dig up some TEST and make that shit happen, quick being a little bitch.

If you cant squat 95lbs youre BETA (half-joking)