[quote]rainjack wrote:
swivel wrote:
naming names is bullshit. if a player has tested positive and is in violation yes name him. otherwise you’re trampling some pretty basic rights we’re all entitled to and for what …to expose a baseball player ? that’s worth the premise of due process to you ?
This is my my argument with the report as well.
No hard proof on Clemens at all. Nothing. [/quote]
Here is what is fucked up about the Clemens info.
As I am reading this I am starting to question if the Mcnamee dude is telling the truth…
For instance he said that he injected Clemens 4 times over a couple of months with Winstrol.
isnt winstrol typically dosed every other day?
So was someone else injecting Clemens on all of the other days because Clemens supposedly said he could not inject himself.
Secondly Winstrol has a side effect of “drying out your joints” so why would a fukking pitcher take Winstrol?
Furhtermore he says he also injected Clemens at another time with testosterone that was labeled Sustanon or Deca-Durabolin. Deca isnt testosterone. Deca is a modification of testosterone so it kinda makes me think this dude doesn’t really know what the fuck he is talking about?
I think naming names is an attempt to market the Report and generate more buzz than it deserves. Either that, or a means to deflect the spotlight from the owners and Bud Selig.
I agree with that although I believe naming names will deter other established major leaguers from using. In terms of younger/minor league guys, the risk is still probably worth the reward.
naming names is bullshit. if a player has tested positive and is in violation yes name him. otherwise you’re trampling some pretty basic rights we’re all entitled to and for what …to expose a baseball player ? that’s worth the premise of due process to you ?
[/quote]
Well i was just trying to find a postive in terms of where baseball can go from this. I’m not exactly in favor or against naming names from a constitutional standpoint although I do admit personaly I find naming names to be very entertaining.
No hard proof on Clemens at all. Nothing. [/quote]
Yea, I’m suprised they even included it in the report. It’s just going to start a debate whether or not the info against clemens is substantial which takes away from the whole purpose of the report.
Yea, I’m suprised they even included it in the report. It’s just going to start a debate whether or not the info against clemens is substantial which takes away from the whole purpose of the report. [/quote]
I think that was the purpose of the report.
I think the purpose of the report was to deflect blame from the owners and Selig by naming names.
I think that Mitchell’s recommendations were obvious to even the most brain dead of observers without a $50 million “investigation”.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Kuz wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
mercury wrote:
Well, good call on Clemens as it was leaked earlier today that he is indeed on the list. The Yankees are supposed to be “hit hard” by this thing. That makes sense since the guy who ratted out Clemens was a former trainer for him and the rest of the Yankees.
…
And Mitchell is heavily involved in the Red Sox. If there aren’t at least a few Red Sox named in this witchhunt then we will know how dirty it is.
There are several Red Sox on the list…
I feel slightly better about it.
[/quote]
I take it back. After skimming the report and watching ESPN I think it is all bullshit. Mighty suspicious he targeted the Yankees and Clemens in particular.
This was a hatchet job pure and simple.
Half the league uses and he goes after the Yankees. I am ashamed of MLB for their hypocrisy. The owners have known for years that players were juicing. Everyone with half a brain knew. They ignored it and now are willing to cut these players off at the knees. Disgusting.
I think the purpose of the report was to deflect blame from the owners and Selig by naming names.
[/quote]
I can see that, but obviously they arent going to admit that.
Its all about deflecting blame. Just look at what the yanks did today by announcing arods signing and saying that they will just give attention to that and not steroids. It pushes their response over the mitchell report to the weekend which is not nearly as publisized as material released during the week. (pardon my spelling.)
I think it just makes everyone look bad. Dating back to the early 90’s disaster with the collective bargaining agreement which led to the 1994 strike everyone hated everyone (players union, owners, comissioner) and no one could get a long.
A quick solution to most problems is money and all three sides saw dollar signs when fans started coming out to stadiums in record numbers and McGwire/Sosa were on the cover of ever paper and every news cast. The problem was the solution so everyone kept quiet.
It was just a matter of time before the house of cards fell.
The whole things seems like the Radomski report. Pul-lease. How much weight can an argument based on “this drug dealer says” possibly hold? There was a poll in some ESPN article asking if you would vote Clemens for the Hall of Fame. 44% of people said NO based on McNamee’s quote. This report is going to ruin some lives/careers/legacies based purely on shady testimony and conjecture.
Some good video on ESPN, especially from Clemen’s lawyer.
Ok, so who are you guys more upset with? The baseball players that take the stuff - since it IS against the rules and all…OR the hypocritical US Gov’t for having steroids be illegal in the first place?
Correct me if Im wrong, please.
The US DEA and AMA told Congress to NOT label anabolic steroids as a controlled substance, thus making them illegal. Congress, in their infinite wisdom, decided to go against these recommendations and “protect us from ourselves.”
Where is the pharmaceutical lobby here? The big Pharm companies can do anything they damn well please in this country, and not one of them is trying to get steroids legalized so they can profit from them? I find this hard to believe.
I could down a bottle of 'roids and get sick. I could down a bottle of advil and die. But which can I go down to Rite Aid right now and buy? People have died from heart attacks brought on by using Viagra. Think thats comin off the shelves any time soon?
The obvious solution here would be to focus on education. Anabolic steroids, when taken by healthy adult males, under careful watch of a qualified medical professional, can improve quality of life. Yes? If taken by women or children, this is obviously not the case, and for this reason young athletes would need to be educated on that point. But to just say “Nobody can take these…” Why?
By making them illegal for everyone, we create the black market and thats why we have guys meeting in the back of gyms to sell the stuff. Gear they are getting from who knows where, that was likely manufactured with zero Quality control. Does that not create a much more dangerous situation? It seems reasonable that most “problems” we see from those using anabolics are either because they are not being monitored by a doctor, or because the quality of their drugs are piss poor (no pun intended).
Sorry, I know I’m all over the place here…just frustrated.
What a major waste of tax payer money!! So professional athletes use steroids. Really, who gives a fuck? Why is the government involved in this? Millions of dollars and 20 months later all we have is a bunch of hear-say and a whole lot of he said, she said.
What a waste. Imagine it they used that time and resources to pursue pedophilia rings, or prevent domestic violence, etc. Use the time and money to solve real problems.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
What a major waste of tax payer money!! So professional athletes use steroids. Really, who gives a fuck? Why is the government involved in this? Millions of dollars and 20 months later all we have is a bunch of hear-say and a whole lot of he said, she said.
What a waste. Imagine it they used that time and resources to pursue pedophilia rings, or prevent domestic violence, etc. Use the time and money to solve real problems.[/quote]
Yes, it was a waste, but, unless I’m misunderstanding, it wasn’t taxpayer money. It was baseball’s money. Selig authorized this “investigation” and MLB footed the bill.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
What a major waste of tax payer money!! So professional athletes use steroids. Really, who gives a fuck? Why is the government involved in this? Millions of dollars and 20 months later all we have is a bunch of hear-say and a whole lot of he said, she said.
What a waste. Imagine it they used that time and resources to pursue pedophilia rings, or prevent domestic violence, etc. Use the time and money to solve real problems.[/quote]
It wasn’t taxpayer money. It was MLB money. Mitchell recieved some help from the feds by having them lean on the Mets guy, and possibly the Yankee guy.
Mitchell had no subpoena power - had it been a gov’t operation, he would have had that.
But nonetheless, Mitchell’s report said nothing. It just named names - basically convicting these 75 players in the court of public opinion.
Hell can’t burn hot enough for him or Selig…or the rest of the owners that were complicit in their players taking performance enhancing substances.
The report is a joke in the sense that it barely skims the surface of the drug issue in MLB. The two primary informant/witnesses are New Yorkers who had access to players on the Yankees and Mets (hence the higher concentration of players.) Also realize that Mitchell has ties to the Boston Red Sox.
This report is nothing but a baby step. My guess is the list of players is likely to be 50x the size that this one is and I’ll bet many of the informed folks on this forum could pick half of them.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
What a major waste of tax payer money!! So professional athletes use steroids. Really, who gives a fuck? Why is the government involved in this? Millions of dollars and 20 months later all we have is a bunch of hear-say and a whole lot of he said, she said.
What a waste. Imagine it they used that time and resources to pursue pedophilia rings, or prevent domestic violence, etc. Use the time and money to solve real problems.[/quote]
Because this puts your name in the news on “the” list. Remember Kenneth Starr? Busting real bad guys doesn’t get you headlines.
