Maybe they are trying to draw attention to a problem that, if left to folks like you, would go unattended to. Instead of seeing a problem, you call into question their motives.
[/quote]
Bullshit. Everyone in this thread has acknowledged the problem. Everyone doesn’t ahve to agree with the MinuteMen, however, in order to be on the same page as far as the problem. Is this the conservative mindset? You are either a thought clone of the rest of us or you are against national security? When was the last time you thought for youself instead of “as a party”?
[quote]rainjack wrote:
. Instead of seeing a problem, you call into question their motives.
[/quote]
he calls into question their motives because he can’t actually argue the facts. So he starts attacking those different than him.
Come on, Professor X, you haven’t tried this one yet: “these people are down here because they’re hoping to get their thrill by maybe having the chance to shoot a poor Mexican runaway. That’s the only reason they’re there.”
Now that sounds like some stupid shit you’d say.
In fact, have said.
Without illegal aliens, the price of agricultural products and other goods and services will not soar. The definitive study on this subject is the University of Iowa’s “How Much Is That Tomato?” The study concludes that ‘since labor is such a small component of the end-price of agricultural products (which includes price to the growers, transportation costs, processing /storage costs, grocers’ profit, etc.), using minimum wage workers instead of illegal aliens would increase prices of agricultural products by approximately 3 percent in the summer and 4 percent in the winter … hardly the making of $10 heads of lettuce, $25 hamburgers, $1,000 per night Days Inn hotel rooms like the pro-illegal alien lobby claims.
Lou Dobbs recently reported that 33 percent of our prison population is now comprised of non-citizens. Plus, 36 to 42 percent of illegal aliens are on welfare.
The ones who use fraudulent social security numbers and qualify to pay taxes and social security have so many deductions for dependents that they pay little if any taxes.
Why does southern California have one of the highest crime rates in the nation?
[quote]Hydrolic Kraken wrote:
Without illegal aliens, the price of agricultural products and other goods and services will not soar. The definitive study on this subject is the University of Iowa’s “How Much Is That Tomato?” The study concludes that ‘since labor is such a small component of the end-price of agricultural products (which includes price to the growers, transportation costs, processing /storage costs, grocers’ profit, etc.), using minimum wage workers instead of illegal aliens would increase prices of agricultural products by approximately 3 percent in the summer and 4 percent in the winter … hardly the making of $10 heads of lettuce, $25 hamburgers, $1,000 per night Days Inn hotel rooms like the pro-illegal alien lobby claims.
[/quote]
Have you ever met anyone willing to bend over in the Texas heat and pick onions for minimum wage? The choice is not pay illegals or pay Americans minimum wage. The choice is pay illegals or pay Americans $12/hr.
Maybe they are trying to draw attention to a problem that, if left to folks like you, would go unattended to. Instead of seeing a problem, you call into question their motives.
Bullshit. Everyone in this thread has acknowledged the problem. Everyone doesn’t ahve to agree with the MinuteMen, however, in order to be on the same page as far as the problem. Is this the conservative mindset? You are either a thought clone of the rest of us or you are against national security? When was the last time you thought for youself instead of “as a party”?[/quote]
damn good thing guys like John Brown were able to look at something, see it was wrong, and take a stand.
This is pathetic, X.
You can’t get anywhere with any of your other arguments so now you’re constructing a straw man of ‘bash conservatives for being conservative’?
That’s bullshit. Intellectually bankrupt.
There’s more to you than this, I know there is.
[quote]Hydrolic Kraken wrote:
Why does southern California have one of the highest crime rates in the nation?[/quote]
I heard today that something like 20 ER’s have closed in the LA area recently b/c of illegal aliens who get treated and don’t pay.
And apparently Telemundo and other spanish tv networks are broadcasting ways to beat the system…what you can get free and the best ways to do it…
Have you ever met anyone willing to bend over in the Texas heat and pick onions for minimum wage? The choice is not pay illegals or pay Americans minimum wage. The choice is pay illegals or pay Americans $12/hr.
[/quote]
don’t you imagine at that point there’d be some good old American ingenuity going to work to devise a better harvesting system? There’s no incentive now…but there would be one.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Bullshit. Everyone in this thread has acknowledged the problem. Everyone doesn’t ahve to agree with the MinuteMen, however, in order to be on the same page as far as the problem. Is this the conservative mindset? You are either a thought clone of the rest of us or you are against national security? When was the last time you thought for youself instead of “as a party”?[/quote]
Seeing as how neither the president, nor congress, has done a damn thing about this problem I fail to see where you come to the conclusion that this is a left or right issue.
You assume that it’s just a bunch of jobless bums roaming the border loaded for bear. You think they are shiftless and untrustworthy. You can be against them, but leave your unfounded prejudices at the door. They stink.
Stop with the snide communist remarks already! I’m not a communist, get it? I-M N-O-T A C-O-M-M-U-N-I-S-T!
As for not having experience in the real world, how is having a job that deals almost exclusively with researching on illegals, having lived near the border (on both sides) nearly all my life, crossing the border at least twice a week, and having nearly all of my friends/family/coworkers either be illegal or research illegals not having experience?
Didn’t you bother reading my first post? Before you continue the attacks on me, read my opinion at least so you know what you’re arguing against.
“You assume that it’s just a bunch of jobless bums roaming the border loaded for bear. You think they are shiftless and untrustworthy. You can be against them, but leave your unfounded prejudices at the door. They stink.”
[quote]nopal_juventus wrote:
“You assume that it’s just a bunch of jobless bums roaming the border loaded for bear. You think they are shiftless and untrustworthy. You can be against them, but leave your unfounded prejudices at the door. They stink.”
Same goes for you.[/quote]
Show me where I have made any prejudiced comment. Show me where I have made an unfounded blanket statement wrt illegals.
Short of that - you have proved your immaturity and worthlessness to this thread.
[quote]nopal_juventus wrote:
“You assume that it’s just a bunch of jobless bums roaming the border loaded for bear. You think they are shiftless and untrustworthy. You can be against them, but leave your unfounded prejudices at the door. They stink.”
Same goes for you.[/quote]
Actually the minutmen have proven to be well disciplined and have been calling in reports of illegals not stopping them. When needed they have also provided water to the illegals.
The Border Patrol Agents Union endorsed them today.
Apparently the only reason they are armed is because a gang called “MS-13” has threatened to kill any Minutmen they can onsite. MS-13 is apparently an organization that participates in illegal alien smuggling.
1.Immigration is good (even these workers have a place in our economy), but damn our country could use some skilled immigration, I think we’re getting killed by this sector choosing other places to work, research, study, etc.
2. However, illegals are bad and structuring a legal system for them could be of mutual benefit.
3. Landowners have a right to protect themselves
but,
4. I don’t approve of the minutemen(I also don’t care for the name)
and,
5. I don’t ever want to find myself on Rainjack’s property in a drunken stupor in the middle of the night.
Rainjack, I agree it’s a problem, but do I really think someone who views these people as cockroaches should be the one watching them… no I don’t.
Before you get your fruit of the looms in a twist I’m not comparing you to the Nazi’s but you do know that the Nazi’s compared the Jew’s to an infestation of rats don’t you and we all know what happened next.
The forest of hate grows from a few small seeds!
Yes, I do think drastic steps from our Government need to be taken, but having a mixture of decent people and let’s be realistic here some racist bigots watching the border could be a powder keg.
"Actually the minutmen have proven to be well disciplined and have been calling in reports of illegals not stopping them. When needed they have also provided water to the illegals.
The Border Patrol Agents Union endorsed them today.
Apparently the only reason they are armed is because a gang called “MS-13” has threatened to kill any Minutmen they can onsite. MS-13 is apparently an organization that participates in illegal alien smuggling."
I haven’t commented on the Minutemen on any of my posts; I was simply telling rainjack to follow his own advice and leave his prejudice at the door.
[quote]100meters wrote:
I agree mostly with Vegita’s 3 points earlier.
1.Immigration is good (even these workers have a place in our economy), but damn our country could use some skilled immigration, I think we’re getting killed by this sector choosing other places to work, research, study, etc.
2. However, illegals are bad and structuring a legal system for them could be of mutual benefit.
3. Landowners have a right to protect themselves
but,
4. I don’t approve of the minutemen(I also don’t care for the name)
and,
5. I don’t ever want to find myself on Rainjack’s property in a drunken stupor in the middle of the night.[/quote]
100meters…WTF is wrong with you today?
You’ve suddenly started making sense and stuff…
Except for #4, I agree with everything you said.
Scary, ain’t it.
[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
Rainjack, I agree it’s a problem, but do I really think someone who views these people as cockroaches should be the one watching them… no I don’t. [/quote]
I don’t believe I said that they were viewed as cockroaches. I believe I compared the number of illegal crossings to an infestation of cockroaches. Last year there were 1.5 million illegals caught in Arizona. illegal arrests are down 50% since the minutemen started patroling their own border. To quote my pal Napoleon - “What the heck would you do in a situation like that?”
If the government won’t do something to stem the tide - somebody has to.
The Jews were already there - they were ripped from their homes and families, then sent to death camps. Hardly an analogy for the illegal immigrant problem.
[quote]Yes, I do think drastic steps from our Government need to be taken, but having a mixture of decent people and let’s be realistic here some racist bigots watching the border could be a powder keg.
[/quote]
There have been no reports of violence other than the threat Hedo mentioned - but that was on the other side. If it erupts into violence at the hands of the minutemen, I would be surprised.
I think if one wants to see bigotry, and intolerance, look no further than Vicente Fox. He could do something about the problem, yet he chooses to call the minutemen names.
[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
100meters wrote:
I agree mostly with Vegita’s 3 points earlier.
1.Immigration is good (even these workers have a place in our economy), but damn our country could use some skilled immigration, I think we’re getting killed by this sector choosing other places to work, research, study, etc.
2. However, illegals are bad and structuring a legal system for them could be of mutual benefit.
3. Landowners have a right to protect themselves
but,
4. I don’t approve of the minutemen(I also don’t care for the name)
and,
5. I don’t ever want to find myself on Rainjack’s property in a drunken stupor in the middle of the night.
100meters…WTF is wrong with you today?
You’ve suddenly started making sense and stuff…
Except for #4, I agree with everything you said.
Scary, ain’t it.
[/quote]
I dunno, I was drinking some koolaid earlier…By not approving, they don’t really bother me, it’s just to be consistant, I don’t really want a group of vigilantes enforcing every single domestic policy issue.
“Without illegal aliens, the price of agricultural products and other goods and services will not soar. The definitive study on this subject is the University of Iowa’s “How Much Is That Tomato?” The study concludes that ‘since labor is such a small component of the end-price of agricultural products (which includes price to the growers, transportation costs, processing /storage costs, grocers’ profit, etc.), using minimum wage workers instead of illegal aliens would increase prices of agricultural products by approximately 3 percent in the summer and 4 percent in the winter … hardly the making of $10 heads of lettuce, $25 hamburgers, $1,000 per night Days Inn hotel rooms like the pro-illegal alien lobby claims.”
Oh really? You expect them to pay minimum wage? Think… why would a conservative white house promote illegal immigration? What do they gain from it?
“Thus, a change in the wage rate paid by agricultural firms will have a significant impact on the wholesale and retail cost/price of fruits and vegetables” <---- Taken from How much is that Tomato in the Window. You merely chose some facts from the study that conviniently supported your point. You also forgot to mention that the study works under the impression that efficiency would be the same without illegal workers, which seems somewhat of a stretch to me.
“Lou Dobbs recently reported that 33 percent of our prison population is now comprised of non-citizens. Plus, 36 to 42 percent of illegal aliens are on welfare.”
I’d like to see these studies, as I have some in front of me that show that illegals are finding it harder and harder to actually use welfare (again, look up the latino raids). And if illegals were so expensive, why would the costs of them being here triple should they immigrate legally?
“The ones who use fraudulent social security numbers and qualify to pay taxes and social security have so many deductions for dependents that they pay little if any taxes.”
“…the average illegal household pays more than $4,200 a year in federal taxes, for a total of nearly $16 billion.” <— Taken from CIS findings.
Why does southern California have one of the highest crime rates in the nation?
"In Beth’s description of what’s been happening in Philadelphia, she touches on an important and mostly ignored fact of crime prevention: putting more cops on the street does not decrease crime–violent crime, in particular. We are dealing with this in my little neck of the woods: The Bay Area.
Power monger Jerry Brown has been major of Oakland for the last four years. He is asking the people of Oakland to pay close to sixty million dollars ($60,000,000) to put another 100 cops on the street to fight the rise in Oakland’s already high violent crime rate. Opponents are countering him with the fact (as though facts have any place in politics) that study after study has shown that more cops don’t make for a safer community.
What does, then, if more cops don’t? The answer is obvious, but it can be hard seeing the obvious sometimes. The better the economy, the lower the crime rate. There are many reasons for this, but let me just list three: idle hands, lack of need, lower stress.
A man down in Southern California wrote a little pamphlet called, “Three Reasons Why Police Increase Crime”.(1) In it, he shows, using computer models that the more cops you have, the more crime you have. Basically, he shows that the more money a town spends on cops, the less it spends on producing goods and services that can be offered to other towns. As a result, the more cops a town has, the worse its economy is. Therefore: the more cops a town has, the more crime it has.
“In the year 2000 California had an estimated population of 33,871,648 which ranked the state 1st in population. For that year the State of California had a total Crime Index of 3,739.7 reported incidents per 100,000 people. This ranked the state as having the 30th highest total Crime Index”
[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
100meters wrote:
I agree mostly with Vegita’s 3 points earlier.
1.Immigration is good (even these workers have a place in our economy), but damn our country could use some skilled immigration, I think we’re getting killed by this sector choosing other places to work, research, study, etc.
2. However, illegals are bad and structuring a legal system for them could be of mutual benefit.
3. Landowners have a right to protect themselves
but,
4. I don’t approve of the minutemen(I also don’t care for the name)
and,
5. I don’t ever want to find myself on Rainjack’s property in a drunken stupor in the middle of the night.
100meters…WTF is wrong with you today?
You’ve suddenly started making sense and stuff…
Except for #4, I agree with everything you said.
Scary, ain’t it.
[/quote]
You know he may have saw that picture of Ann Coulter today on Time Magazine’s cover. Could be the motivator to jump ship!
