For anyone that wants to see the truth behind illegal immigration (and don’t worry bushites, it’s not some left wing bias. I’m surprised no one has called me a liberal, democrat, or kerry-lover yet. Maybe it’s because I’m none of the three).
[quote]hedo wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
100meters wrote:
I agree mostly with Vegita’s 3 points earlier.
1.Immigration is good (even these workers have a place in our economy), but damn our country could use some skilled immigration, I think we’re getting killed by this sector choosing other places to work, research, study, etc.
2. However, illegals are bad and structuring a legal system for them could be of mutual benefit.
3. Landowners have a right to protect themselves
but,
4. I don’t approve of the minutemen(I also don’t care for the name)
and,
5. I don’t ever want to find myself on Rainjack’s property in a drunken stupor in the middle of the night.
100meters…WTF is wrong with you today?
You’ve suddenly started making sense and stuff…
Except for #4, I agree with everything you said.
Scary, ain’t it.
You know he may have saw that picture of Ann Coulter today on Time Magazine’s cover. Could be the motivator to jump ship!
Hey now we have hot chicks too 
[/quote]
Mann Coulter? Hot? uhggg…wtf Carbolin 19 article gotta go.
[quote]100meters wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
100meters wrote:
I agree mostly with Vegita’s 3 points earlier.
1.Immigration is good (even these workers have a place in our economy), but damn our country could use some skilled immigration, I think we’re getting killed by this sector choosing other places to work, research, study, etc.
2. However, illegals are bad and structuring a legal system for them could be of mutual benefit.
3. Landowners have a right to protect themselves
but,
4. I don’t approve of the minutemen(I also don’t care for the name)
and,
5. I don’t ever want to find myself on Rainjack’s property in a drunken stupor in the middle of the night.
100meters…WTF is wrong with you today?
You’ve suddenly started making sense and stuff…
Except for #4, I agree with everything you said.
Scary, ain’t it.
I dunno, I was drinking some koolaid earlier…By not approving, they don’t really bother me, it’s just to be consistant, I don’t really want a group of vigilantes enforcing every single domestic policy issue.[/quote]
so you’re saying that you don’t actually care about #4, so it’s a throwaway…?
So you and I stand at 100% for the day?
So…which one of us has to get drunk tonight?
[quote]100meters wrote:
hedo wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
100meters wrote:
I agree mostly with Vegita’s 3 points earlier.
1.Immigration is good (even these workers have a place in our economy), but damn our country could use some skilled immigration, I think we’re getting killed by this sector choosing other places to work, research, study, etc.
2. However, illegals are bad and structuring a legal system for them could be of mutual benefit.
3. Landowners have a right to protect themselves
but,
4. I don’t approve of the minutemen(I also don’t care for the name)
and,
5. I don’t ever want to find myself on Rainjack’s property in a drunken stupor in the middle of the night.
100meters…WTF is wrong with you today?
You’ve suddenly started making sense and stuff…
Except for #4, I agree with everything you said.
Scary, ain’t it.
You know he may have saw that picture of Ann Coulter today on Time Magazine’s cover. Could be the motivator to jump ship!
Hey now we have hot chicks too
Mann Coulter? Hot? uhggg…wtf Carbolin 19 article gotta go.[/quote]
still almost perfect. I mean…I like Ann, she cracks me up, and I’d hit it…just because…but I don’t know how hot she is. Now Laura Ingraham…she’s hot.
[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
100meters wrote:
hedo wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
100meters wrote:
I agree mostly with Vegita’s 3 points earlier.
1.Immigration is good (even these workers have a place in our economy), but damn our country could use some skilled immigration, I think we’re getting killed by this sector choosing other places to work, research, study, etc.
2. However, illegals are bad and structuring a legal system for them could be of mutual benefit.
3. Landowners have a right to protect themselves
but,
4. I don’t approve of the minutemen(I also don’t care for the name)
and,
5. I don’t ever want to find myself on Rainjack’s property in a drunken stupor in the middle of the night.
100meters…WTF is wrong with you today?
You’ve suddenly started making sense and stuff…
Except for #4, I agree with everything you said.
Scary, ain’t it.
You know he may have saw that picture of Ann Coulter today on Time Magazine’s cover. Could be the motivator to jump ship!
Hey now we have hot chicks too
Mann Coulter? Hot? uhggg…wtf Carbolin 19 article gotta go.
still almost perfect. I mean…I like Ann, she cracks me up, and I’d hit it…just because…but I don’t know how hot she is. Now Laura Ingraham…she’s hot.
[/quote]
I would definitely hit Laura before Coulter, I would never hit it with Coulter, NEVER! She looks like she’s taken more Alpha Male than me!
[quote]rainjack wrote:
There have been no reports of violence other than the threat Hedo mentioned - but that was on the other side. If it erupts into violence at the hands of the minutemen, I would be surprised.
[/quote]
Again, I would not be. Apparently, there are quite a few here who don’t think that the MinuteMen need to be attempting the jobs that our government should be taking care of. I think this goes a step beyond a neighborhood watch and that these people aren’t trained for this. Whether any of them have any ill intent is something that neither you nor I know for sure, however, I can tell you that even with training, there are some policemen that shouldn’t be trusted. You seem to have a very trusting opinion of them. Why does anyone opposed to that mindset have to be bigoted? I want TRAINED individuals at the border, not a make shift watch group, regardless of who endorses them.
You seem to think that someone who considers immigrants as roaches would not be a part of that group at all? So you would never do this job, I hope? Why aren’t you bigoted for your opinion of the crossing of immigrants? The comparison of their crossing to an infestation of roaches is a positive concept to you?
[quote]100meters wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
100meters wrote:
hedo wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
100meters wrote:
I agree mostly with Vegita’s 3 points earlier.
1.Immigration is good (even these workers have a place in our economy), but damn our country could use some skilled immigration, I think we’re getting killed by this sector choosing other places to work, research, study, etc.
2. However, illegals are bad and structuring a legal system for them could be of mutual benefit.
3. Landowners have a right to protect themselves
but,
4. I don’t approve of the minutemen(I also don’t care for the name)
and,
5. I don’t ever want to find myself on Rainjack’s property in a drunken stupor in the middle of the night.
100meters…WTF is wrong with you today?
You’ve suddenly started making sense and stuff…
Except for #4, I agree with everything you said.
Scary, ain’t it.
You know he may have saw that picture of Ann Coulter today on Time Magazine’s cover. Could be the motivator to jump ship!
Hey now we have hot chicks too
Mann Coulter? Hot? uhggg…wtf Carbolin 19 article gotta go.
still almost perfect. I mean…I like Ann, she cracks me up, and I’d hit it…just because…but I don’t know how hot she is. Now Laura Ingraham…she’s hot.
I would definitely hit Laura before Coulter, I would never hit it with Coulter, NEVER! She looks like she’s taken more Alpha Male than me!
[/quote]
Laura and Coulter???
I think the left may even support that!
[quote]100meters wrote:
I dunno, I was drinking some koolaid earlier…By not approving, they don’t really bother me, it’s just to be consistant, I don’t really want a group of vigilantes enforcing every single domestic policy issue.[/quote]
100meters, they aren’t enforcing anything. Which I would also be against. They are basically being tattle tales, like a neighborhood watch group. How nice would it be if every major city in america had people like this to stand up to bad behavior. This is a case of people doing for themselves what our system has let go unchecked for so long that it can no longer control the problem.
And I really hope one bad incident involving these guys, IF something does happens, does not make them stop doing what they are doing. Police do bad things every day, but I still want them out patroling our streets and making a more positive impact than a negative one.
V
{edited to correct my hurried typing}
[quote]Professor X wrote:
You seem to think that someone who considers immigrants as roaches would not be a part of that group at all? So you would never do this job, I hope? Why aren’t you bigoted for your opinion of the crossing of immigrants? The comparison of their crossing to an infestation of roaches is a positive concept to you? [/quote]
Read what the hell I wrote, Prof. You are getting really close to crossing a line - and to do so out of blatant ignorance is sad. I never once called any illegal a cockroach. I referred to their crossing en masse (in excess of 1.5 million arrests in Arizona last year) as an infestation. If this offends you, then please tell me a PC term for 1.5 million trespassers streaming across your property every year. Sometimes they take your shit, sometimes they don’t.
You are accusing people you know nothing about of being a bunch of unemployed bubbas looking for an excuse to off a wet. Nothing has happened that would substantiate your prejudiced conclusions.
Folks on the border used to get along with illegals. They built wet shacks, and when they would cross onto a rancher’s property - they would stay the night in the wet shacks. The rancher would cook them breakfast and the illegal would work for him if there was work to be had. If not, the illegal would continue on his way. It was quite a symbiotic relationship. But the wet shacks are gone, now.
What changed? The ranchers must have all become bigoted, unemployed bubbas that fancied Lone Star Beer and dead Mexicans.
[quote]Vegita wrote:
100meters wrote:
I dunno, I was drinking some koolaid earlier…By not approving, they don’t really bother me, it’s just to be consistant, I don’t really want a group of vigilantes enforcing every single domestic policy issue.
100meters, they aren’t enforcing anything. Which I would also be against. They are basically being tattle tales, like a neighborhood watch group. How nice would it be if every major city in america had people like this to stand up to bad behavior. This is a case of people doing for themselves what our system has let go unchecked for so long that it can no longer control the problem.
And I really hope one bad incident involving these guys, IF something does happens, makes them stop doing what they are doing. Police do bad things every day, but I still want them out patroling our streets and making a more positive impact than a negative one.
V
[/quote]
I’m not saying they are vigilante enforcers, I’m just carrying out the logic to other issues. For instance (this is a bad example) a group of concerned citizens armed with radar guns enforcing speed limits would annoy me, so to be consistant I would prefer the minutemen left the job to authorities (I know, they aren’t doing it). Anyway, I don’t really care about the minutemen one way or the other.
[quote]hedo wrote:
100meters wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
100meters wrote:
hedo wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
100meters wrote:
I agree mostly with Vegita’s 3 points earlier.
1.Immigration is good (even these workers have a place in our economy), but damn our country could use some skilled immigration, I think we’re getting killed by this sector choosing other places to work, research, study, etc.
2. However, illegals are bad and structuring a legal system for them could be of mutual benefit.
3. Landowners have a right to protect themselves
but,
4. I don’t approve of the minutemen(I also don’t care for the name)
and,
5. I don’t ever want to find myself on Rainjack’s property in a drunken stupor in the middle of the night.
100meters…WTF is wrong with you today?
You’ve suddenly started making sense and stuff…
Except for #4, I agree with everything you said.
Scary, ain’t it.
You know he may have saw that picture of Ann Coulter today on Time Magazine’s cover. Could be the motivator to jump ship!
Hey now we have hot chicks too
Mann Coulter? Hot? uhggg…wtf Carbolin 19 article gotta go.
still almost perfect. I mean…I like Ann, she cracks me up, and I’d hit it…just because…but I don’t know how hot she is. Now Laura Ingraham…she’s hot.
I would definitely hit Laura before Coulter, I would never hit it with Coulter, NEVER! She looks like she’s taken more Alpha Male than me!
Laura and Coulter???
I think the left may even support that!
[/quote]
Hedo,
look at the above picture and please reconsider! You don’t want to hit that, cause it’ll probably hit back!
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Read what the hell I wrote, Prof.[/quote]
I did.
Gee, and I then wrote, "The comparison of their crossing to an infestation of roaches is a positive concept to you? " which is what you said. I said a COMPARISON OF THEM CROSSING. You just don’t want to admit what you eluded to before. Why back down now?
[quote]nopal_juventus wrote:
“yay Che Guevara, Stalin I love you!”
Stop with the snide communist remarks already! I’m not a communist, get it? I-M N-O-T A C-O-M-M-U-N-I-S-T!
As for not having experience in the real world, how is having a job that deals almost exclusively with researching on illegals, having lived near the border (on both sides) nearly all my life, crossing the border at least twice a week, and having nearly all of my friends/family/coworkers either be illegal or research illegals not having experience?
Didn’t you bother reading my first post? Before you continue the attacks on me, read my opinion at least so you know what you’re arguing against.
[/quote]
Sorry. It’s just when someone says “I’m a communist” and then proceeds to argue in favor of communism, going to great lengths comparing communist governments with the United States, I sometimes confuse them with communists. I’m such a damn literal-minded conservative, I keep expecting people to say what they mean. “That depends on what the ‘am’ in ‘I am a communist’ is”, right?
Anyways, you’re mistaking my jab at you with having to do with anything else on this thread. I couldn’t care less how many illegal immigrants you work with or live with or whatever. I do care that you would espouse communism (or to prevent you from blowing a cog, I’ll stop quoting you and say “socialism” instead) without ever living under it. In fact, while taking advantage of the wealth you can produce in a mainly capitalist society, you then opine about how great socialism is.
I’ve got a solution for you: go give it a try! As far as I know, Cuba and North Korea are pretty well-socialized. Check it out and report back. (If you have any trouble getting in, just start giving the America-hating lunatic Websites that you posted earlier, and start spouting off about “ugly Americans/gordos gringos” and you’re sure to get in.)
Same thing goes for your retreat to advocating a “mixed economy”. I’ve lived in those in Europe as well I have to tell you, 70% taxes, $15 sandwiches, and 1960’s healthcare (hey it’s “free”, right?) gets really old, really fast. But hey, you might like it. Go ahead and see how any western European nation will handle your application.
Or you could do the responsible thing – go to your own country, convince others of the rightness of your ideas, win some elections, and try to get things accomplished. Turn Mexico into a worker’s paradise.
X: Go back and read MarineCadre’s post. Try to imagine that is you listening to illegals crossing over your property and stealing whatever isn’t nailed down. How long would it take? How many calls to the US border patrol which result in nothing?
I see you’re falling back on a kind of “hillbilly” stereotype here, but I would think that there is some honest motivation for the minutemen to do what they’re doing. Maybe they’re just fed up perhaps?
And the kicker here is that it’s working. Of course the BP union is going to praise them. Of course groups affiliated with making money from illegals are going to threaten them. It’s working, folks.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
You are accusing people you know nothing about of being a bunch of unemployed bubbas looking for an excuse to off a wet. Nothing has happened that would substantiate your prejudiced conclusions.
What changed? The ranchers must have all become bigoted, unemployed bubbas that fancied Lone Star Beer and dead Mexicans.[/quote]
POX prejudiced? Racist? No, say it’s not so!
I have a constructive idea. I think we should send POX to the border and test his theory that “there’s nothing that white people fear more than a big, black man”, and see if it applies to illegal immigrants crossing the border.
Hell, if it works, we could take him away from his busy day job, get him a glass-domed helicopter, and have him fly up and down the border, scaring off white Minutemen and migrants and making a Scary No Man’s Land of POX! Who needs fences or border patrols?
THAT would be tax money well spent. POX I will write my representative.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Gee, and I then wrote, "The comparison of their crossing to an infestation of roaches is a positive concept to you? " which is what you said. I said a COMPARISON OF THEM CROSSING. You just don’t want to admit what you eluded to before. Why back down now?[/quote]
No - this is exactly what you wrote:
You seem to think that someone who considers immigrants as roaches would not be a part of that group at all? So you would never do this job, I hope? Why aren’t you bigoted for your opinion of the crossing of immigrants? The comparison of their crossing to an infestation of roaches is a positive concept to you?
You all but accuse me of being a bigoted, unemployed beer swilling vigilante, and then you try and take it back at the end by throwing in ‘comparison’. If that makes you feel better - fine.
I don’t think anything about this situation is postive. I just happen to take issue with the way you are overgeneralizing the mindset of the property owners - who are trying to protect their property/families/way of life because the federal government has turned its back on them.
As I said before - you give me a PC way to describe 1.5 million ILLEGAL trespassers crossing the border each year, and I’ll use it in place of ‘infestation’.
“Sorry. It’s just when someone says “I’m a communist” and then proceeds to argue in favor of communism, going to great lengths comparing communist governments with the United States, I sometimes confuse them with communists. I’m such a damn literal-minded conservative, I keep expecting people to say what they mean. “That depends on what the ‘am’ in ‘I am a communist’ is”, right?”
Actually the whole thing started with me asking what was so bad about being a communist, and all my subsequent posts were counterarguments to the reasons given. I explicitely stated several times that I wasn’t a communist, and that I thought it was utopian.
“Anyways, you’re mistaking my jab at you with having to do with anything else on this thread. I couldn’t care less how many illegal immigrants you work with or live with or whatever. I do care that you would espouse communism (or to prevent you from blowing a cog, I’ll stop quoting you and say “socialism” instead) without ever living under it. In fact, while taking advantage of the wealth you can produce in a mainly capitalist society, you then opine about how great socialism is.”
I’ve gone to Cuba and China. I think they fit under the ‘communist’ label. I’m friends with my sister’s teacher, a cuban ballet school founder who has lived almost all her life in Cuba, and who supports communism (and no, she’s not brainwashed).
“I’ve got a solution for you: go give it a try! As far as I know, Cuba and North Korea are pretty well-socialized. Check it out and report back. (If you have any trouble getting in, just start giving the America-hating lunatic Websites that you posted earlier, and start spouting off about “ugly Americans/gordos gringos” and you’re sure to get in.)”
See above. I can live with not having new cars or tv’s, but I can’t live with being part of the system that exploits others for something as foolish as material gain. The only reason I live in the U.S. is for the I.B. diploma (which they do offer in many mexican schools, just not any where I live). And for the record, I’m not calling U.S. citizens evil, or anything of the sort. It’s not like they’re personally responsible for all the worlds evils.
“Same thing goes for your retreat to advocating a “mixed economy”. I’ve lived in those in Europe as well I have to tell you, 70% taxes, $15 sandwiches, and 1960’s healthcare (hey it’s “free”, right?) gets really old, really fast. But hey, you might like it. Go ahead and see how any western European nation will handle your application.”
I also lived in France, Germany, and Switzerland for a while (dad’s sabbatical). I was young at the time, but everyone that I talk to that has or is living there (my parents included) don’t seem to mind having less material benefits.
"Or you could do the responsible thing – go to your own country, convince others of the rightness of your ideas, win some elections, and try to get things accomplished. Turn Mexico into a worker’s paradise. "
You’re not very familiar with mexican politics, are you?
http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID={BD251FE8-7A2C-4A84-A1BF-987B11870D42}&language=EN
A pseudo-socialist that ‘convinced other of the rightness of his ideas, won some elections, and tried to get things accomplished’, AMLO now faces possible jail time and disqualification from the 2006 presidential race for having built a hospital.
So rainjack, let’s say Bush and the rest of the Gov. do nothing to stop the infestation and the Mexicans keep turning on your water and stealing your stuff when can we start shooting them? Because the only way to stop an infestation is with a can of Raid. Kills roaches till their dead!
Hey, rainjack, we never said your were a beer swilling bigot we know you’re a healthy guy we said Grow! swilling bigot. (just kidding rainman)
[quote]nopal_juventus wrote:
“Sorry. It’s just when someone says “I’m a communist” and then proceeds to argue in favor of communism, going to great lengths comparing communist governments with the United States, I sometimes confuse them with communists. I’m such a damn literal-minded conservative, I keep expecting people to say what they mean. “That depends on what the ‘am’ in ‘I am a communist’ is”, right?”
Actually the whole thing started with me asking what was so bad about being a communist, and all my subsequent posts were counterarguments to the reasons given. I explicitely stated several times that I wasn’t a communist, and that I thought it was utopian.
I’ve gone to Cuba and China. I think they fit under the ‘communist’ label. I’m friends with my sister’s teacher, a cuban ballet school founder who has lived almost all her life in Cuba, and who supports communism (and no, she’s not brainwashed).
See above. I can live with not having new cars or tv’s, but I can’t live with being part of the system that exploits others for something as foolish as material gain. The only reason I live in the U.S. is for the I.B. diploma (which they do offer in many mexican schools, just not any where I live). And for the record, I’m not calling U.S. citizens evil, or anything of the sort. It’s not like they’re personally responsible for all the worlds evils.
I also lived in France, Germany, and Switzerland for a while (dad’s sabbatical). I was young at the time, but everyone that I talk to that has or is living there (my parents included) don’t seem to mind having less material benefits.
You’re not very familiar with mexican politics, are you?
http://www.plenglish.com/article.asp?ID={BD251FE8-7A2C-4A84-A1BF-987B11870D42}&language=EN
A pseudo-socialist that ‘convinced other of the rightness of his ideas, won some elections, and tried to get things accomplished’, AMLO now faces possible jail time and disqualification from the 2006 presidential race for having built a hospital. :)[/quote]
You obviously need to spend as much time reading Smith as you have reading Marx. Your insinuation that America or capitalism is all about money, cars, and getting rich at other’s expense is ignorant and insulting. Besides, have you lived in America, or Southern California?
I did live in western Europe as an adult and I do remember it, vividly, and I thought their political and economic outlooks were oppressive. I thought their whole view on government as being some mystical, monolithic, other-dimensional organism (despite how tiny their countries were) was as depressing as it was inexplicable. I thought the way they pissed and moaned about everything that was wrong with the US and Japan while refusing to deal with the bad policies that left their own economies relatively shitty was irritating but after a while I thought it was boring. Actually, people here think like that – we call them liberal democrats – and mostly I try to ignore them, but in Europe I had to bathe in their muck each day.
Of course, I am not from Mexico and I am a business-owner, so my frame of reference is not disastrous government and squalor, and I don’t work in a university or other unreal setting.
How do you think the Western Europeans pay for all their social programs, anyways? Print money? Sorry, you still have to get a job and work for somebody else, and be “exploited” so your boss and their boss can have “cars and tv’s”. The difference is is how much you get to decide what to do with the fruits of your exploitation, and how much a bean-counter 500 miles away gets to play with. If you would rather get “exploited” at work and then exploited by some C student you don’t know, knock yourself out. You can probably pay a county worker to wipe your ass for you to, and if that’s what floats your boat go for it.
Anyways, it sounds like you should have little time on your hands to criticize the USA. So stop it. There’s plenty of other countries to live in that sound like they would suit you better, and you don’t have to screw with ours that is working well without you or Marx, thanks very much. No, seriously, if you’re just going to bitch and have no intentions of contributing or staying here or in Mexico, why open your mouth about it? Just leave, there’s obviously several million who would love to have your spot.