First JW posts how he finds the prof’s comments “horribly offensive”
In his next post he writes about shooting elementary children because they can’t run fast.
Yes, I know you were TRYING to be funny/tounge and cheek about it. But I find that horribly offensive and most of your comments childish and baseless.
RJ–disassociate yourself now. I can really see where you are coming from having to live right there. We have to get a handle on illegal crossings somehow, and if people are willing to be there just to be spotters, great.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
vroom wrote:
Heh, what’s the matter, Rainjack isn’t able to take on the professor on his own?
Watch your back prof, I think I see someone sneaking up behind you while you duke it out with Rainjack.
The Joe Weider clone is a distractionary tool of the conservatives on this forum. There may not be any substance, but he will make damn sure that you are aware of everything he does not have to offer. Then again, at least he is far removed from screaming, “What are the alternatives!!!” so maybe there is hope afterall.[/quote]
LOL!!
Oh man you kill me.
Thanks. That was a good laugh.
I’m a distractionary tool…that’ be a wicked good album title.
“Now playing…Professor X and the Straw Man Quartet with their mega hit Distractionary Tools”.
Here are the problems with an unregulated Mexican border:
The state has some interest in knowing who you are. Yea, Im all for small government, but the fact of the matter is that many of the illegals crossing the border are completely undocumented. That means they dont even have birth certificates and no one can prove who they are. This becomes a very big problem when we are dealing with criminal activity. I cant tell you how many crimes go unsolved
because of this(I see it everyday). This also extends to the rampant disregard of motor vehicle laws and regulations. In fact, when dealing with someone who is completely undocumented, law enforcement is basically giving up
unless you are talking major crimes.
2.Terrorists. Enough said. I cant believe there is any more discussion of this issue when the homicidal maniacs have already said they plan to use the
porous border to infilitrate the country. Wake the fuck up.
3.If we dont know that you are here, how can we be sure you are paying your fair share(ie. taxes, fees etc.)? We cant.
Come to the US legally and enjoy all of the benefits. I don’t care where you come from. But once you get here, you have responsibilities like every other citizen. Some people might want to deny it, but this one way valve mentality is killing us(that means you take advantage of the education system, medical system,
public infrastructure like parks and roads and drain emergency serices but dont contribute anything to the maintenance of these entities). While Im at it, I should add that you should not even think about closing the border
if you dont reform the social welfare net first. The illegals crossing from south of the border are usually very hard working people and the argument is that they take jobs nobody else wants. However, there are plenty of people already legally in the US to work on farms and such, if you take the governmental handouts away from them as
long as they are able-bodied. Dont leave them a choice and we’ll see how quick those jobs get filled.
4.If we continue to encourage complete disrespect for American sovereignty and the American governmental system, should we be surprised that the waves of illegals refuse to assimilate into American culture, like other immigrant groups have done in the past? I dont think so.
The minuteman project is a good thing as long as they function as watchdogs and not enforcers. The government should be freaking embarassed about their negligence and if this shames them further along(hopefully toward meaningful action), so be it.
There was recent talk about how we will soon fall behind in technology as a nation because we are turning away some of the brightest minds from any other country because of these new tactics for keeping immigrants out of the country.
[/quote]
I don’t think anyone with a Ph.D. is wading the Rio Grande. This conversation is about illegal immigration.
I’m all for a sane guest worker program that keeps track of the people willing to jobs Americans won’t do. I’m completely against not knowing who is entering the country.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Aleksandr wrote:
brabbit, the problem is that LEGAL immigration is no longer an option for many, many people. Acceptances of applications have dropped by 50% is recent years. Add to that a 30% drop in applications, and you see a very big problem emerging. If more people could immigrate legally, fewer would do so illegally.
This is why the xenophobia and racism spouted by the right wing in order to scare the masses into going along with whatever hair-brained scheme they are cooking up is relevant to this conversation. I am still in shock at how easily the american people are manipulated by the use of fear.
There was recent talk about how we will soon fall behind in technology as a nation because we are turning away some of the brightest minds from any other country because of these new tactics for keeping immigrants out of the country.
I don’t think the average person can see beyond “save us quick from the terrorists!!”. When the pendulum finally swings back after all of this, I hope too much damage has not been done.[/quote]
Prof X
I agree immigrants bring a lot to the table. In the medical field I am sure you see a lot of smart kids from different countries.
Do you support legal immigration whereby the immigrants must come thru a control point or a less restrictive policy such as happens with the Mexicans? Just curious?
I personally think we should let them in. Give them work visa’s and renew them as long as they have a job and stay out of trouble. IF they get turned down because they are felon’s or terrorists or something else well that’s too bad for them.
rj, when your family entered the US, was it their “right”? When a country sets up exclusionary immigration laws, it tends to be a product of racism and nationalism. There is no other reasonable justification for denying certain nationalisties entry, while not others.
And the reason for the drop off in acceptances is unlikely due to terrorists coming in. Unless you think 50% of applicants are terrorists, of course. A south african friend of mine (comp science graduate) found a job in wisconsin, where his siter lives, but couldn’t take it because he couldn’t get the paper work done. He took his expertise elsewhere, and now works in Canada.
Terrorist say they will use loose borders to enter the country? Didn’t Bin Laden say his plan was to destroy the US economy? Seems like it’s working so far…
Hey–this is unacceptable.
Rainjack’s the one who got accused of wanting to shoot school kids crossing his land–by Professor X. I got accused of climbing a watch tower to pick off stray pedestrians–by Professor X. I found both of those comments completely offensive. But I chose not to get mad …instead I just went–as you said–tongue in cheek to try and deflect some of the sting.
So how is that you’re upset with me for taking what PROFESSOR X SAID and going with it?
Seems to me that you’d be better off going after the good Prof for saying it in the first place.
[quote]sasquatch wrote:
vroom/prof
I agree.
First JW posts how he finds the prof’s comments “horribly offensive”
In his next post he writes about shooting elementary children because they can’t run fast.
Yes, I know you were TRYING to be funny/tounge and cheek about it. But I find that horribly offensive and most of your comments childish and baseless.
RJ–disassociate yourself now. I can really see where you are coming from having to live right there. We have to get a handle on illegal crossings somehow, and if people are willing to be there just to be spotters, great. [/quote]
[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
rj, when your family entered the US, was it their “right”? [/quote]
Absolutely not. But at the same time - they didn’t sneak across the river in the dead of night to get here.
You couldn’t be more wrong. There are several reasonable justifications for being selective in who we allow into our country.
And I ask again - what is the relevance of the drop off in visa approvals? Do you not think america is smart enough to make it on its own?
[quote]Terrorist say they will use loose borders to enter the country? Didn’t Bin Laden say his plan was to destroy the US economy? Seems like it’s working so far…
[/quote]
That’s pretty subjective - since things seem to be going pretty good where I am sitting.
I wanted to make this public because I believe, to often, that remarks are made and then retracted in PMs when the guy gets called out.
Even before Joe’s post he PMd me about my comments. I re-read all the posts and did find this was in fact brought up previously. I missed it because it wasn’t in a one line statement like JWs, but it was ‘out there’ before JW responded.
I PMd JW with my apology, went back to the forum and saw JWs comments. JW–I am sorry for calling you out like that.
While I still find the remark tasteless
and offensive I apologize for putting it all on JW.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
There was recent talk about how we will soon fall behind in technology as a nation because we are turning away some of the brightest minds from any other country because of these new tactics for keeping immigrants out of the country.
I don’t think the average person can see beyond “save us quick from the terrorists!!”. When the pendulum finally swings back after all of this, I hope too much damage has not been done.[/quote]
Amen!
Now, as I’ve stated before I’m strongly against illegal immigration, and, honestly, I don’t think deporting them is enough of a disincentive. On the other hand, shooting them isn’t an option, but we need to find something in between that is effective at stopping people from thinking they can enter this country illegally.
One of the things that might indirectly help that battle is making legal immigration easier; as you say above, the US is hurting with the fact that it is turning away very smart people – and we all know that since the US is not able to breed enough smart people on its own, it needs external help, as it has always needed.
Our dear president is actually doing the exact reverse: rewarding the illegal immigrants with Green Cards, while making it harder for highly qualified people to obtain a Green Card, and creating such contempt for the US externally that many bright minds wouldn’t be caught trying to come here even if it was easy.
On the contrary: many foreign assistant professors at US universities are going back to their home countries, either because they can’t get a Green Card or because their country?s government offers them so much more.
The fact that you cannot work for or even with any Federal Government agency (like NASA) if you’re not a US Citizen is not helping; in fact, many blame that in part for the rampant incompetence at NASA.
[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
brabbit, the problem is that LEGAL immigration is no longer an option for many, many people. Acceptances of applications have dropped by 50% is recent years. Add to that a 30% drop in applications, and you see a very big problem emerging. If more people could immigrate legally, fewer would do so illegally.
This is why the xenophobia and racism spouted by the right wing in order to scare the masses into going along with whatever hair-brained scheme they are cooking up is relevant to this conversation. I am still in shock at how easily the american people are manipulated by the use of fear.[/quote]
Well, why are applications dropping? And why is legal immigration not an option to many people? And what are you advocating, open borders?..I don’t see racism, but a haven for criminals, terrorists, people who don’t pay taxes or have health insurance, and a way for businesses to exploit their workers.
I don’t think our higher education system will fail because we are limiting the influx of immigrants. Nor do I think industry will suffer brain drain from it either.
If we need expertise in a given area, I’m sure we will be able to get it - whether home grown, or import. You underestimate the powers of the evil right wing conspiracy.
I agree immigrants bring a lot to the table. In the medical field I am sure you see a lot of smart kids from different countries.
Do you support legal immigration whereby the immigrants must come thru a control point or a less restrictive policy such as happens with the Mexicans? Just curious?
I personally think we should let them in. Give them work visa’s and renew them as long as they have a job and stay out of trouble. IF they get turned down because they are felon’s or terrorists or something else well that’s too bad for them.
[/quote]
I agree with you. I think many in this country have grown exceptionally arrogant. This entire country was built ground up from many different people from different parts of the world. I don’t think that needs to be shut down completely now.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I agree with you. I think many in this country have grown exceptionally arrogant. This entire country was built ground up from many different people from different parts of the world. I don’t think that needs to be shut down completely now.
[/quote]
It hasn’t been shut down completely. Maybe we’ve becaome a bit more cautious in handing out Visas - but for good reason. Oh wait - that’s just more 9/11 hysteria. We’ll soon suffer since there are no intelligent people left in our country.
Gimmee a freakin break, Prof. You throw out more babies with the the bathwater than any ABBer I’ve ever met.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:
You underestimate the powers of the evil right wing conspiracy.
…and you overestimate its intelligence and wisdom.[/quote]
diabolical and evil trump intelligence and wisdom every time. Especially when we are stripping away personal privacy and plotting for imperialistic global domination.
Geez, Prof - either get with the program, or get out of the way - your blocking traffic with your big ass.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Maybe we’ve becaome a bit more cautious in handing out Visas - but for good reason.[/quote]
The thing is – we have become more careful in handing out Visas in the worst possible way; for example, the maximum number of H1B Visas – work visas for qualified people sponsored by US companies – that can be issued each year has been dramatically reduced. Why? How does that prevent terrorists from coming in to this country? A terrorist organization will just choose to apply for a tourist visa. It doesn’t stop them. It doesn’t make their life harder. It does, however, stop a lot of highly qualified, working people, from entering this country.
Same thing with Green Cards – qualified people have to wait up to 4 years to get a Green Card. How does that stop a terrorist organization? It does not – they just apply for temporary visas, not for Green Cards.
So, essentially, our post-9/11 visa policies have been reducing the influx of hard working, qualified people, while contributing absolutely nothing to prevent terrorists from entering this country.
Fortunately, we don’t rely exclusively on that visa policy to stop them; if we did, we’d be in big trouble.
[quote]hspder wrote:
So, essentially, our post-9/11 visa policies have been reducing the influx of hard working, qualified people, while contributing absolutely nothing to prevent terrorists from entering this country.
Fortunately, we don’t rely exclusively on that visa policy to stop them; if we did, we’d be in big trouble.
[/quote]
According to Rainjack, this is a non-issue. Like I said, many in this country have become extremely arrogant concerning our place in the world.
[quote]hspder wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Maybe we’ve becaome a bit more cautious in handing out Visas - but for good reason.
The thing is – we have become more careful in handing out Visas in the worst possible way; for example, the maximum number of H1B Visas – work visas for qualified people sponsored by US companies – that can be issued each year has been dramatically reduced. Why? How does that prevent terrorists from coming in to this country? A terrorist organization will just choose to apply for a tourist visa. It doesn’t stop them. It doesn’t make their life harder. It does, however, stop a lot of highly qualified, working people, from entering this country.
Same thing with Green Cards – qualified people have to wait up to 4 years to get a Green Card. How does that stop a terrorist organization? It does not – they just apply for temporary visas, not for Green Cards.
So, essentially, our post-9/11 visa policies have been reducing the influx of hard working, qualified people, while contributing absolutely nothing to prevent terrorists from entering this country.
Fortunately, we don’t rely exclusively on that visa policy to stop them; if we did, we’d be in big trouble.
[/quote]
Hspder
I don’t think 4 yrs. is to long to wait for a green card. I have a few folks that work for me that spent 4 to 6 yrs. gettting theirs. It was worth the wait. They were Eastern Europeans. Great people. They would have waited 10 yrs. if they had to.
I will put a different spin on this argument. I would rather see them restrict H1B VIsa’s more then any. That is good quality work a US citizen can do. I would rather see the immigrants come in and do the jobs a citizen does not want…not one that he is working hard to get.
Go to most countries and you will not get a visa if a local is capable of doing the work.