I don’t like illegal immigration. I welcome the Mexicans if they want to work but I don’t see anything wrong with registering at the border and getting a renewable visa. Maybe require a periodic check-in. If they don’t get arrested, pay tax’s etc. then maybe after a certain period of time they could apply for citizenship. If they are here to work, pay tax’s and obey the law hell that’s how most of our familes got here.
As to the Minutemen. Interesting idea. I think it is a political statment and a good one. I don’t think it is permanent. It doesn’t sound like they are out to kill the Mexicans, just warn they Border Patrol where they are.
I don’t think I’d be out on the border without a gun either. It’s not the illegals I’d worry about, it’s the people bringing them in for money that are most likely criminal and armed. They have to get srious about border security at some point. Nothing is wrong with legal immigration.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Unless you make it your mission to shoot kids who cross through your yard on the way to school, you don’t have much of a point. This isn’t about criminals who are stealing from you. While they may be committing the crime of passage into the US, this situation will blow out of control if people with your mentality were on that border. These are human beings you are talking about, not insects.[/quote]
so now you’re tossing out a straw man about RJ shooting kids?
Man…you’re getting weaker, Prof.
I know you’ve got better in you, let it out!
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I grew up in Texas. My dad is originally from an area very close to the border. I am not sure why you felt the need to talk down to me about this situation. I can guarantee that there is very little in the way of life experience that you have over me, regardless of age. [/quote]
Your dad growing up in that area 40 years ago and the current situation is hardly the same thing. I talk down to you wrt the border situation because you have demonstrated in three consecutive posts that you know absolutely nothing about the current situation.
I didn’t bring age into this, you did. Ignorance doesn’t have a birthday. I’m not trying to get into a ‘life experience’ contest with you. I am telling you how it really is. It is up to you you whether you believe me or not.
[quote]
I am all for someone protecting their property from someone trying to hurt them. I am not all for someone getting shot from running across open land, even if it belongs to an individual. Unless you make it your mission to shoot kids who cross through your yard on the way to school, you don’t have much of a point. [/quote]
Once again your igorance of the situation is leading you to conclusions that are totally absurd. No one has suggested that - you are back to building straw men.
[quote]
This isn’t about criminals who are stealing from you. While they may be committing the crime of passage into the US, this situation will blow out of control if people with your mentality were on that border. [/quote]
Once again your ignorance is making you look foolish. The minutemen are unarmed. I advocated that up to the point that ones property, or family is threatened. My mentality is the mentality of the border - that’s where I learned it. It would be yours to if you lived there and had a non-stop stream of illegals crossing on your land, stealing your shit, and knowing that the government won’t lift a finger to do their job and put a stop to this.
Or maybe you would be one of those idiots that builds water stops for them as they infest our borders.
There have been reports of vigilante justice being dolled out on the border, but these are isloated incidents and are not associated with the minutemen in any way.
I’m all for legal immigration as well. I’m not for an open door poilcy, however.
No one has even brought up the fact that many of these illegals are muling drugs across the border as well.
[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Unless you make it your mission to shoot kids who cross through your yard on the way to school, you don’t have much of a point. This isn’t about criminals who are stealing from you. While they may be committing the crime of passage into the US, this situation will blow out of control if people with your mentality were on that border. These are human beings you are talking about, not insects.
so now you’re tossing out a straw man about RJ shooting kids?
Man…you’re getting weaker, Prof.
I know you’ve got better in you, let it out![/quote]
Seriously, just stop responding. I am tired of your use of the word “straw man” and your “nahny nahny boo boo” style of posting. I suppose it humors you, however, so I guess anything that keeps you from grabbing a rifle and picking off people from a watch tower is a good thing.
Once again your ignorance is making you look foolish. The minutemen are unarmed. I advocated that up to the point that ones property, or family is threatened. My mentality is the mentality of the border - that’s where I learned it. It would be yours to if you lived there and had a non-stop stream of illegals crossing on your land, stealing your shit, and knowing that the government won’t lift a finger to do their job and put a stop to this.
Or maybe you would be one of those idiots that builds water stops for them as they infest our borders.
[/quote]
My response concerning being armed was about what you wrote, not about the Minutemen. I already know they are unarmed. YOUR STATEMENT is what I was referring to. If someone lives on the border and they get their stuff stolen, no one is disagreeing about the right to protect YOUR OWN stuff. You don’t live on the border, do you? Well then, your response makes no sense in regards to how YOU should act.
Again, for the slow crowd, if you get your stuff stolen, shoot whoever stole it if you can while on your property. No one has said against that. I am against people feeling as if they can defend the border they don’t personally own.
[quote]mozhne wrote:
I live in farm country and I can tell you that Mexicans keep this country moving. There aren’t too many ‘white’ people willing to work for 6 bucks an hour from daylight till dark. True, there are criminals that slip through but the vast majority are people just like your and my ancestors. [/quote]
You have a point there, but its not fair to the rest of us who have to pay for our health insurance, and have to pay for our taxes. Its especially tough for border states like New Mexico, which from what I hear have a near crisis in the hospitals with the amount of illegals being treated…Not to mention the issues with crime and terrorism. There’s really no reason we shouldn’t put a wall up around our borders…I’ve got no problem with immigration, but illegal immigration is a different story
[quote]Professor X wrote:
My response concerning being armed was about what you wrote, not about the Minutemen. I already know they are unarmed. YOUR STATEMENT is what I was referring to. If someone lives on the border and they get their stuff stolen, no one is disagreeing about the right to protect YOUR OWN stuff. You don’t live on the border, do you? Well then, your response makes no sense in regards to how YOU should act.
Again, for the slow crowd, if you get your stuff stolen, shoot whoever stole it if you can while on your property. No one has said against that. I am against people feeling as if they can defend the border they don’t personally own.[/quote]
Then what is this argument about? I’ve not once suggested that I would personally go down there and shoot illegals - the ‘I’ that was used was a collective ‘I’ that I feel entitled to use after years of living and working in that area. My parents own land and live less than 100 miles from Mexico. My sister lives less than 5 mile from the border. My ‘I’ is valid.
Besides - if I go down to the border with guns a blazin, there would be no one here to shoot the children as they pass in front of my house. And we all know that folks with ‘my mentality’ would never pass up a sure chance a firing off a few rounds from our lever action .30/.30’s.
[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
lothos wrote:
Is it me or has everyone completely forgot about 9-11?? Lets forget the whole immigrant worker situation and all its implications for a moment. The Constitution clearly mandates that the federal government protect and defend the intergrity of our borders. Both borders are wide, fuckin, open. Its not just Canadians and Mexicans coming across the borders, its Iranians, Syrians, and a whole other host of middle eastern folks that tend to do things like hate Americans. Sadly its going to take thousands, if not tens of thousands, of innocent Americans getting killed by some bomb traced back to the border before something gets done. Sad.
Restricting immigration post 9-11 is likely to be a nail in north america’s coffin. Without immigrants, the economy is screwed. And since it has gotten so difficult to get into the US and Canada, people are just going elsewhere (believe it or not, north america is not the only game in town).
Check out china’s numbers, and you’ll see that at the current rate, the US will not be #1 much longer.
What can be done to reverse this? Get your heads out of your asses, stop believing everything told to you by racist right-wingers, especially if they have vested interests, which put them in a conflict-of-interests situation every time they move.
But yeah, keep those (AMERICA HATING!!!11) middle-easterners and indians out!!! They are taking american jobs, plus they are all terrorists anyway!![/quote]
Tell that to all the Americans who work hard, pay for health insurance, and pay taxes. This has nothing to with “right wing” ideology but the law and common sense, YOU are the one that brought the race issue up. The issue is not immigration, but ILLEGAL immigration.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Unless you make it your mission to shoot kids who cross through your yard on the way to school, you don’t have much of a point. This isn’t about criminals who are stealing from you. While they may be committing the crime of passage into the US, this situation will blow out of control if people with your mentality were on that border. These are human beings you are talking about, not insects.
so now you’re tossing out a straw man about RJ shooting kids?
Man…you’re getting weaker, Prof.
I know you’ve got better in you, let it out!
Seriously, just stop responding. I am tired of your use of the word “straw man” and your “nahny nahny boo boo” style of posting. I suppose it humors you, however, so I guess anything that keeps you from grabbing a rifle and picking off people from a watch tower is a good thing.[/quote]
Apparently you’re only tired of being called on your contruction of straw men b/c it’s long been your best tactic.
Your rifle/watch tower comment is way over the line, and horribly offensive. Given the very real concerns in this country day to day, making a comment like that simply because you disagree with someone isn’t cute.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
My response concerning being armed was about what you wrote, not about the Minutemen. I already know they are unarmed. YOUR STATEMENT is what I was referring to. If someone lives on the border and they get their stuff stolen, no one is disagreeing about the right to protect YOUR OWN stuff. You don’t live on the border, do you? Well then, your response makes no sense in regards to how YOU should act.
Again, for the slow crowd, if you get your stuff stolen, shoot whoever stole it if you can while on your property. No one has said against that. I am against people feeling as if they can defend the border they don’t personally own.
Then what is this argument about? I’ve not once suggested that I would personally go down there and shoot illegals - the ‘I’ that was used was a collective ‘I’ that I feel entitled to use after years of living and working in that area. My parents own land and live less than 100 miles from Mexico. My sister lives less than 5 mile from the border. My ‘I’ is valid.
Besides - if I go down to the border with guns a blazin, there would be no one here to shoot the children as they pass in front of my house. And we all know that folks with ‘my mentality’ would never pass up a sure chance a firing off a few rounds from our lever action .30/.30’s.
[/quote]
best part is that if it’s elementary school kids they can’t run too fast, right RJ?
I mean, one shoot-em-up nut to another.
brabbit, the problem is that LEGAL immigration is no longer an option for many, many people. Acceptances of applications have dropped by 50% is recent years. Add to that a 30% drop in applications, and you see a very big problem emerging. If more people could immigrate legally, fewer would do so illegally.
This is why the xenophobia and racism spouted by the right wing in order to scare the masses into going along with whatever hair-brained scheme they are cooking up is relevant to this conversation. I am still in shock at how easily the american people are manipulated by the use of fear.
[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
brabbit, the problem is that LEGAL immigration is no longer an option for many, many people. Acceptances of applications have dropped by 50% is recent years. Add to that a 30% drop in applications, and you see a very big problem emerging. If more people could immigrate legally, fewer would do so illegally.
[/quote]
Wouldn’t you say there is a reason application approvals have dropped off?
Well, maybe I’ve been going about this wrong. You’ve won me over… I’m getting out and joining the tax-free / benefit-laden masses.
[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
brabbit, the problem is that LEGAL immigration is no longer an option for many, many people. Acceptances of applications have dropped by 50% is recent years. Add to that a 30% drop in applications, and you see a very big problem emerging. If more people could immigrate legally, fewer would do so illegally.[/quote]
Is it your opinion that everyone in the world has a ‘right’ to come to the U.S.? I would disagree with you.
Explain to me the big problem with dwindling applications/acceptances. Our country continues to grow. How is this a bad problem?
[quote]
This is why the xenophobia and racism spouted by the right wing in order to scare the masses into going along with whatever hair-brained scheme they are cooking up is relevant to this conversation. I am still in shock at how easily the american people are manipulated by the use of fear.[/quote]
Have you heard Nancy Pelosi’s position on the immigration problem? She’s hardly a right-winger spouting racism. Our own President, who many consider a right-wing radical, is opposed to doing anything about the borders.
Yet you want to make this a partisan issue? You’ve proved you ineptness to discuss this honestly. There are more than enough party-line discussions on this forum–this is not one of them. Now, run along.
[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
brabbit, the problem is that LEGAL immigration is no longer an option for many, many people. Acceptances of applications have dropped by 50% is recent years. Add to that a 30% drop in applications, and you see a very big problem emerging. If more people could immigrate legally, fewer would do so illegally.
This is why the xenophobia and racism spouted by the right wing in order to scare the masses into going along with whatever hair-brained scheme they are cooking up is relevant to this conversation. I am still in shock at how easily the american people are manipulated by the use of fear.[/quote]
There was recent talk about how we will soon fall behind in technology as a nation because we are turning away some of the brightest minds from any other country because of these new tactics for keeping immigrants out of the country.
I don’t think the average person can see beyond “save us quick from the terrorists!!”. When the pendulum finally swings back after all of this, I hope too much damage has not been done.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Heh, what’s the matter, Rainjack isn’t able to take on the professor on his own?
Watch your back prof, I think I see someone sneaking up behind you while you duke it out with Rainjack.[/quote]
The Joe Weider clone is a distractionary tool of the conservatives on this forum. There may not be any substance, but he will make damn sure that you are aware of everything he does not have to offer. Then again, at least he is far removed from screaming, “What are the alternatives!!!” so maybe there is hope afterall.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
There was recent talk about how we will soon fall behind in technology as a nation because we are turning away some of the brightest minds from any other country because of these new tactics for keeping immigrants out of the country.
I don’t think the average person can see beyond “save us quick from the terrorists!!”. When the pendulum finally swings back after all of this, I hope too much damage has not been done.[/quote]
You guys whine and cry about outsourcing. Now you are singing a new doomsday song about how we will live to regret trying to tighten our borders.
If you don’t think tightening our borders is part and parcel to reducing the domestic terrorist threat, then you are beyond rational thought.
I guess we are a bunch of idiots for not advertising our flight schools in Saudi Arabia.