[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
Shit, I’m a low-middle class white male. I can’t get shit.
Why are you a conservative?
Too much pride to be a liberal.
That and I can’t stand people whining all the time.
I’ve got lib friends–in fact one of my very best friends–and I see how bitter and whiny he is about politics and I hate it.
Besides, I believe in certain things.[/quote]
Have you checked some of your posts lately? The one in the picture forum alone shows you are more whiny than most on this forum.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
Shit, I’m a low-middle class white male. I can’t get shit.
Why are you a conservative?
Too much pride to be a liberal.
That and I can’t stand people whining all the time.
I’ve got lib friends–in fact one of my very best friends–and I see how bitter and whiny he is about politics and I hate it.
Besides, I believe in certain things.
Have you checked some of your posts lately? The one in the picture forum alone shows you are more whiny than most on this forum.[/quote]
B/C I don’t get the hero worship of you?
You’re putting words in my mouth again, Prof.
Please don’t.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I would treat them just like I would treat anyone else. I have a lethal right to protect my property, and regardless of nationality - if I percieve that my life is in danger, somebody’s dying.
The border between Mexico and the US is YOUR property?
in a broad sense, it’s all of our property.
Too broad to act as if it is your “right” to protect it through the use of fire arms.[/quote]
who ever said firearms? Everyone here has, I believe, advocated the opposite.
Don’t start throwing out shit like that trying to make it stick. It’s uncool.
Elk–I agree with you. At this point it would be well worth the effort to turn the mexican economy around. But how would you do that? From what I’ve read part of the biggest problem is government graft and corruption. Short of actual “regime change”, how would you do it?
It’s hard for a group of citizens to do what the government refuses to do. For whatever reason, there hasn’t been serious effort at enforcing border laws in at least a generation, and Bush isn’t doing it either.
I mean, when the Mexican army is giving rides to the hopeful illegal immigrants to areas that are good crossings (and that aren’t patrolled), and the Mexican government is issuing pamphlets on how to successfully cross the border, there’s a huge international relations issue there – but nary a peep from our side.
We also haven’t done squat on increasing the INS presence at the border, which is pathetic.
It’s a national security issue as much as an immigration issue, and what needs to happen is that the issue needs to get a lot more press and become something politicians avoid at their peril. To the extent the Minutemen accomplish that, more power to them. THere are a couple of issues that have the potential to re-shape the political landscape, and this is one of them – let’s just hope it doesn’t get mixed up with anti-free-trade gobbledygook, which can happen fairly easily if people don’t understand the differences.
[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
who ever said firearms? Everyone here has, I believe, advocated the opposite.
Don’t start throwing out shit like that trying to make it stick. It’s uncool.
[/quote]
What are you talking about? Have you taken your meds today? Rainjack wrote:
That sounds like the use of fire arms unless he means his bare hands. Did you not read that post or did you wipe it from your memory? Like I said, you whine most of all.
I advocate the use of deadly force to protect property and family. That is not to say that I condone the use of deadly force in the minutemen’s situation.
I think public ignorance about what actually happens on the border is causing an undue jump to conclusions.
As a side note, I believe that Illegal immigrant arrests are down 50% during the last month since the folks from Arizona have been doing what the government refuses to do.
As far as elk’s point about the mexican economy - until the mexican government places a premium on education there will never be a boom in Mexico to put them in the ballpark with the U.S. Couple that with the rampant gov’t and professional corruptionl, and it would seem that mexico wants their country to remain at dumb and poor.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
I advocate the use of deadly force to protect property and family. That is not to say that I condone the use of deadly force in the minutemen’s situation. [/quote]
Why would you even need to say that in this thread? This thread is not about illegal immigrants entering your house, it is about them entering the country. You made it seem as if you had the same right to protect that border as you do your own house. That is wrong.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
who ever said firearms? Everyone here has, I believe, advocated the opposite.
Don’t start throwing out shit like that trying to make it stick. It’s uncool.
What are you talking about? Have you taken your meds today? Rainjack wrote:
I would treat them just like I would treat anyone else. I have a lethal right to protect my property, and regardless of nationality - if I percieve that my life is in danger, somebody’s dying.
That sounds like the use of fire arms unless he means his bare hands. Did you not read that post or did you wipe it from your memory? Like I said, you whine most of all.[/quote]
nope, didn’t see it. My most humble apologies, o revered one.
I only aspire to be as perfect in word and deed as you have shown us how.
He’s talking about his property, not the “border”.
Or aren’t you able to grasp that?
BTW, I don’t whine, I bitch. There’s a difference!
I believe as citizens and land owners we do have the right to protect both property and person. I agree with RJ that this IS someones property and therefor can and should be protected.
To some degree I believe as the prof. that they are taking mostly jobs that most won’t take. So if it is established mind set, lets make arrangements that are then fair to all.
In CA they get in state tuitions and medical care as well as free schooling in the elementary and secondary systems.
I don’t see this as fair.
Let’s protect our borders and try to get some type of system tyhat accounts for the people crossing. They then should have to pay taxes on their income. To meager of an income you say–fine-- then don’t come across if it’s not in your best interest. Wages will go up and legit citizens can then claim, those jobs.
To me it’s about accountability. And damn right we should protect ourselves and our borders. To shrug it off as “well none else wants those jobs” which is about the only argument, that to me is just not good enough.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I advocate the use of deadly force to protect property and family. That is not to say that I condone the use of deadly force in the minutemen’s situation.
Why would you even need to say that in this thread? This thread is not about illegal immigrants entering your house, it is about them entering the country. You made it seem as if you had the same right to protect that border as you do your own house. That is wrong. [/quote]
maybe he lives in an area hit hard by illegal aliens who commit crimes and then disappear?
The easiest way to keep that from happening is to keep them from coming in the first place, or regulating them better–as in legal immigration.
Don’t jump to conclusions, Prof.
You do us all a disservice.
I live in farm country and I can tell you that Mexicans keep this country moving. There aren’t too many ‘white’ people willing to work for 6 bucks an hour from daylight till dark. True, there are criminals that slip through but the vast majority are people just like your and my ancestors. They want a shot at a better life. This minuteman idea looks like a tragedy waiting to happen. All it will take is one or two guys with guns, and you know most, if not all, those guys are packing, and some Mexican from some backwards place is going to get shot.
On a side note: Did anyone see the article about an amusement park near Mexico City that has an obstacle course to train people to cross the border? Saw something in my Sunday paper.
[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
maybe he lives in an area hit hard by illegal aliens who commit crimes and then disappear?
The easiest way to keep that from happening is to keep them from coming in the first place, or regulating them better–as in legal immigration.
Don’t jump to conclusions, Prof.
You do us all a disservice.[/quote]
Like the citizens in this country don’t commit crimes and disappear? Does that mean you drive down to the neighborhood where the crook lives and start picking off random people? Your responses bring the thread lower in substance. Please, stop doing that.
Is it me or has everyone completely forgot about 9-11?? Lets forget the whole immigrant worker situation and all its implications for a moment. The Constitution clearly mandates that the federal government protect and defend the intergrity of our borders. Both borders are wide, fuckin, open. Its not just Canadians and Mexicans coming across the borders, its Iranians, Syrians, and a whole other host of middle eastern folks that tend to do things like hate Americans. Sadly its going to take thousands, if not tens of thousands, of innocent Americans getting killed by some bomb traced back to the border before something gets done. Sad.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I advocate the use of deadly force to protect property and family. That is not to say that I condone the use of deadly force in the minutemen’s situation.
Why would you even need to say that in this thread? This thread is not about illegal immigrants entering your house, it is about them entering the country. You made it seem as if you had the same right to protect that border as you do your own house. That is wrong. [/quote]
I’ll write very slowly so you can unsderstand what I am saying, as you evidently can’t grasp the idea of our border with Mexico.
These folks’ houses are on the property in question. They live on the border. The border isn’t a mythical no man’s land that no one owns.
In College, while working for a rancher on the weekends, my roomate and I would gather his cattle. His ranch was on the border. That is to say the southern end of his ranch ended on the Rio Grande. His property line was Mexico. His house was 5 miles form the River. His family slept, ate, bathed and well - lived in that house. He has barns full of equipment: tractors, tack, tools, etc. On more than one occasion we would venture across the mighty Rio Grande (which most of the time was less than a foot wide) to gather cattle that had gotten through a downed fence. That is not a unique occurance. We did not do so unarmed. You didn’t gather cattle unarmed. You didn’t assume. like you do that the the illegals are there to make friends with you.
His situation is not unique. Please don’t tell me you are so naive as to think that folks on the border shouldn’t be concerned, or prepared to defend their property which is right on the border.
You just proved my point about the ignorance of the border situation.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Joe Weider wrote:
maybe he lives in an area hit hard by illegal aliens who commit crimes and then disappear?
The easiest way to keep that from happening is to keep them from coming in the first place, or regulating them better–as in legal immigration.
Don’t jump to conclusions, Prof.
You do us all a disservice.
Like the citizens in this country don’t commit crimes and disappear? Does that mean you drive down to the neighborhood where the crook lives and start picking off random people? Your responses bring the thread lower in substance. Please, stop doing that.[/quote]
Dude, you’re starting to get delusional.
It’s okay, no one likes to be disagreed with, I can understand how it would upset you.
Especially when you’re so convinced you have all the answers and know what’s best for everyone.
It’s okay, ProfX, I still love you, even if you don’t know ALL the answers.
And I mean love as in “like” and not in a powda likes foopa way either.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I advocate the use of deadly force to protect property and family. That is not to say that I condone the use of deadly force in the minutemen’s situation.
Why would you even need to say that in this thread? This thread is not about illegal immigrants entering your house, it is about them entering the country. You made it seem as if you had the same right to protect that border as you do your own house. That is wrong.
I’ll write very slowly so you can unsderstand what I am saying, as you evidently can’t grasp the idea of our border with Mexico.
These folks’ houses are on the property in question. They live on the border. The border isn’t a mythical no man’s land that no one owns.
In College, while working for a rancher on the weekends, my roomate and I would gather his cattle. His ranch was on the border. That is to say the southern end of his ranch ended on the Rio Grande. His property line was Mexico. His house was 5 miles form the River. His family slept, ate, bathed and well - lived in that house. He has barns full of equipment: tractors, tack, tools, etc. On more than one occasion we would venture across the mighty Rio Grande (which most of the time was less than a foot wide) to gather cattle that had gotten through a downed fence. That is not a unique occurance. We did not do so unarmed. You didn’t gather cattle unarmed. You didn’t assume. like you do that the the illegals are there to make friends with you.
His situation is not unique. Please don’t tell me you are so naive as to think that folks on the border shouldn’t be concerned, or prepared to defend their property which is right on the border.
You just proved my point about the ignorance of the border situation.[/quote]
I grew up in Texas. My dad is originally from an area very close to the border. I am not sure why you felt the need to talk down to me about this situation. I can guarantee that there is very little in the way of life experience that you have over me, regardless of age. I am all for someone protecting their property from someone trying to hurt them. I am not all for someone getting shot from running across open land, even if it belongs to an individual. Unless you make it your mission to shoot kids who cross through your yard on the way to school, you don’t have much of a point. This isn’t about criminals who are stealing from you. While they may be committing the crime of passage into the US, this situation will blow out of control if people with your mentality were on that border. These are human beings you are talking about, not insects.
[quote]lothos wrote:
Is it me or has everyone completely forgot about 9-11?? Lets forget the whole immigrant worker situation and all its implications for a moment. The Constitution clearly mandates that the federal government protect and defend the intergrity of our borders. Both borders are wide, fuckin, open. Its not just Canadians and Mexicans coming across the borders, its Iranians, Syrians, and a whole other host of middle eastern folks that tend to do things like hate Americans. Sadly its going to take thousands, if not tens of thousands, of innocent Americans getting killed by some bomb traced back to the border before something gets done. Sad.[/quote]
Restricting immigration post 9-11 is likely to be a nail in north america’s coffin. Without immigrants, the economy is screwed. And since it has gotten so difficult to get into the US and Canada, people are just going elsewhere (believe it or not, north america is not the only game in town).
Check out china’s numbers, and you’ll see that at the current rate, the US will not be #1 much longer.
What can be done to reverse this? Get your heads out of your asses, stop believing everything told to you by racist right-wingers, especially if they have vested interests, which put them in a conflict-of-interests situation every time they move.
But yeah, keep those (AMERICA HATING!!!11) middle-easterners and indians out!!! They are taking american jobs, plus they are all terrorists anyway!!
