I remember he wore jean shorts to a press conference thing where it was traditional to wear a suit.
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
At my old gym, there was an IFBB Pro who was a Wnbf (natural) Pro for years before taking the plunge. We would chat every day, and he was very open about everything with me. He would say that if he didnāt 100% believe that he had those one in a million genetics to make money for his family, that he never would have made the choice that he did. In hindsight, and this is my own take on his situation after all of our interactions, I think on some level that he kinda regretted it. He had a slew of medical issues since bursting onto the IFBB scene, and seeing him with his young daughter, you sometimes could see him weighing everything out.
I think Mattarazzo was in a similar situation.
S[/quote]
Even the top guys donāt make that much money though?
[quote]banco wrote:
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
At my old gym, there was an IFBB Pro who was a Wnbf (natural) Pro for years before taking the plunge. We would chat every day, and he was very open about everything with me. He would say that if he didnāt 100% believe that he had those one in a million genetics to make money for his family, that he never would have made the choice that he did. In hindsight, and this is my own take on his situation after all of our interactions, I think on some level that he kinda regretted it. He had a slew of medical issues since bursting onto the IFBB scene, and seeing him with his young daughter, you sometimes could see him weighing everything out.
I think Mattarazzo was in a similar situation.
S[/quote]
Even the top guys donāt make that much money though?
[/quote]
I once read from a former bodybuilding insider who I consider a reliable source that Orville Burke made $12,000 per year while competing.
No, most top guys donāt earn a damn thing from bodybuilding.
I have a close friend competing in IFBB physique and he placed well in a very important show. He still has a normal 40 to 60 hour work week because he has earned $0.00 from physique.
On FB, a top IFBB physique competitor posted a picture of his earnings from placing, I think first or second in a show, $1,400. So if we consider physique to be a āprofessionalā endeavor, he put in three to four months of work for the payment that middle class Americans earn in one to two weeks of work. I am unsure of what other money making endeavors he is involved with, but if he is not, then he is likely as broke as a church mouse, as are many who have put their entire existence into this ill-paid endeavor.
We will never know exactly what someone has or hasnāt done to their body and it is therefore impossible to blame it on a single thing such as steroid use or abuse. Only time will tell whether or not moderate steroid use is safe.
[quote]sknawt wrote:
ā¦it is therefore impossible to blame it on a single thing such as steroid use or abuse. [/quote]
Actually we can.
Also, proper use of testosterone is for those who are hypogonadal and only used to reach a mid- to high-normal T value. Thatās it. Anything more is inherently abuse or misuse.
[quote]sknawt wrote:
We will never know exactly what someone has or hasnāt done to their body and it is therefore impossible to blame it on a single thing such as steroid use or abuse. Only time will tell whether or not moderate steroid use is safe.[/quote]
As I stated last year, it never ceases to amaze me the human ability to rationalize.
Let me guess - youāre a āmoderateā user or planning to be.
Can you honestly say you:
-
milked everything possible as a natty?
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have been told by numerous people in the business you have what it takes to make it at state, national, or even international level?
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know you have the work ethic and discipline required?
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are willing to live with any serious fall out down the road?
If yes, then by all means, inject away.
Smart money says youāre just another guy looking for the easy way out.
Can someone chime in as to what moderate use is?
i think āsomeoneā needs to stop the bullshit,performance enhancing substances [ did not say steroids] have been used by man for sport and combat for so many thousands of years i dont think it is going to ever stop.
āsomeoneā should study whatever the current substances [steroids] are so that athletes and soldiers can safely use the current substance and know that resources, as in doctors or clinics who know what they are doing, are available to spot problems before its to late
although i do realize some people are still going to push the boundaries of whats safe,but during checkup problems can be spotted and treated
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Can someone chime in as to what moderate use is? [/quote]
In this particular context, itās based on a sliding scale to help one feel justified.
[quote]cavemansam wrote:
i think āsomeoneā needs to stop the bullshit,performance enhancing substances [ did not say steroids] have been used by man for sport and combat for so many thousands of years i dont think it is going to ever stop.
āsomeoneā should study whatever the current substances [steroids] are so that athletes and soldiers can safely use the current substance and know that resources, as in doctors or clinics who know what they are doing, are available to spot problems before its to late
although i do realize some people are still going to push the boundaries of whats safe,but during checkup problems can be spotted and treated[/quote]
Slippery slope.
Although the topic is debated among medical professionals, objective physicians will generally acknowledge that they canāt foresee all possible long-term outcomes once the Pandoraās box is open. So how is it that they can āspot problems before its to[o] lateā??? Clairvoyant?
Weāre not talking about adding an extra stevia packet in our morning coffee. Weāre talking about altering hormonal profiles.
On another note, looking excellent, Brick and ELS.
pretty much like any drug or substance that is commercially available in a drug store
when i pick up a perscrpition for say my Arthritis medication i get an insert that lists possible reactions,get these reactions call doctor , get these reactions go see doctor,doctor may change to different drug
[quote]cavemansam wrote:
pretty much like any drug or substance that is commercially available in a drug store
when i pick up a perscrpition for say my Arthritis medication i get an insert that lists possible reactions,get these reactions call doctor , get these reactions go see doctor,doctor may change to different drug[/quote]
To compare arthritis medication and drugs that can cause significant changes in a personās muscle mass - with what weāre finding to be potentially severe or even terminal consequences for some users - is quite a stretch.
if peds were properly researched and administered the clinic would know want peds you were on ,what side effects to watch for ,and how often you should get labs done ,kidney function,liver
in other words say you start to get gyno,instead of going to internet message board and asking strangers want to do ,you would call your clinic, and they would call in appropriate script.or say labs come back showing liver toxicity the clinic would know what to do before you would cause Irreversible damage
[quote]cavemansam wrote:
if peds were properly researched and administered the clinic would know want peds you were on ,what side effects to watch for ,and how often you should get labs done ,kidney function,liver
in other words say you start to get gyno,instead of going to internet message board and asking strangers want to do ,you would call your clinic, and they would call in appropriate script.or say labs come back showing liver toxicity the clinic would know what to do before you would cause Irreversible damage
[/quote]
Youāre describing a fantasy world.
They still havenāt figured out all the possible ramifications of TRTā¦so what makes you think theyāll make leaps and bounds with PEDs?
from what i have seen on the trt threads on this site what is known about trt depends on the doctor or clinic you go to, some appear to be really up on the current research on trt but some appear to be guessing
but then again whoever ksman is, seems like the research is fairly advanced if you know where to look and learn or specialize
but anyway you look at trt or peds they are not going to go away ,proper research we might not see so many die
[quote]cavemansam wrote:
from what i have seen on the trt threads on this site what is known about trt depends on the doctor or clinic you go to, some appear to be really up on the current research on trt but some appear to be guessing
but then again whoever ksman is, seems like the research is fairly advanced if you know where to look and learn or specialize
but anyway you look at trt or peds they are not going to go away ,proper research we might not see so many die[/quote]
The current research on TRT (by even the most knowledgeable physicians) is just that - current. It can stand the test of time or be outdated and possibly dangerous in the future.
Iām a realist. Iām very much aware that PEDs will never go away. Neither will heroin. Should we just donate to a kickstarter campaign so researchers can develop a safer high? Then, inevitably, there will be those who take even more - be it PEDs, heroin, whatever.
No research lab can curtail human greed and stupidity.
As I stated last year and again this morning, people will rationalize whatever it is they want to do. However, if they havenāt mastered the fundamentals as natties, lack discipline and work ethic, and are simply in it for a short cut, I wonāt be first in line to offer condolences if things turn to shit and they ruin their lives.
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Can someone chime in as to what moderate use is? [/quote]
No, but your avatar is epic! What are you on? 
The current research on TRT (by even the most knowledgeable physicians) is just that - current. It can stand the test of time or be outdated and possibly dangerous in the future.
Iām a realist. Iām very much aware that PEDs will never go away. Neither will heroin. Should we just donate to a kickstarter campaign so researchers can develop a safer high? Then, inevitably, there will be those who take even more - be it PEDs, heroin, whatever.
No research lab can curtail human greed and stupidity.
As I stated last year and again this morning, people will rationalize whatever it is they want to do. However, if they havenāt mastered the fundamentals as natties, lack discipline and work ethic, and are simply in it for a short cut, I wonāt be first in line to offer condolences if things turn to shit and they ruin their lives.
i agree with you on these points
There are a lot of points in this thread I would like to counter.
Then I see shit like this:
ā¦