(Mighty) Stu Yellin, WNBF Pro Updates n Q&A

[quote]LoRez wrote:
I tried those lat pulldowns as you described the other day, keeping elbows in front of a vertical torso and not bringing the bar too far down. That’s a pretty useful cue.

I also felt them in my chest, noticeable especially with the DOMS over the next couple days (e.g., like a pullover). Do you have any suggestions how to shift the emphasis back to the lats? Even if not, this is still something I can work with, so thanks for describing/sharing them.[/quote]

Yeah, Cordova was the first one to really bring to my attention the elbow positioning and how it affects the muscular stress. At the time, everywhere I looked, people were obsessing over wide grips vs close grips, but elbows and torso angles didn’t seem to be a big focus.

I would guess, with the chest DOMS, that perhaps you’re just getting familiar with a new way of performing a movement. The conscious tensing of your pecs during the entire exercise is most likely culprit. I’m sure that as you continue to utilize the approach, your non-back muscles will learn to relax more.

People get bicep pumps all the time from doing pulldowns, but if you question the more advanced folks in the gym, they’ll tell you that they’ve learned over time to actually relax their arms as they pull with their backs. It’ll come from repeated use, no doubt :slight_smile:

S

Stu, I just found this thread. I wish I would have found it sooner. I have a lot of catching up to do. You are in your 40’s like me and natural. Love to look like you someday…even in board shorts.

I AM IN!!

[quote]truthandlife wrote:
Stu, I just found this thread. I wish I would have found it sooner. I have a lot of catching up to do. You are in your 40’s like me and natural. Love to look like you someday…even in board shorts.

I AM IN!![/quote]

Lol, yeah, one of the few “Over 35’s” who still hangs out with the young bucks.

You may have to hunt a bit, but I’ve had three previous contest season threads if you really are curious to see past decisions, both good and bad, that I made en route to different contest seasons.

One of the nicest compliments I would receive was when my older threads were either stickied, or when they actually locked from reaching the maximum amount of replies. At this point, I keep this one going to talk more about my being on the ‘other side’ as a Wnbf judge as well as a coach, answer any questions I can based on my own experiences, and just ramble about when some aspect of the sport/pursuit/lifestyle catches my attention.

I’ve popped into your RMP thread a few times. Much respect brother.

S

Stu,

I have you ever done a front carb load for peak week? If you have what has been your experience and what are the pluses and minuses? Also, how do you really know you have “filled out.” I have had a tough time evaluating that in my past two shows. Thanks.

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I would guess, with the chest DOMS, that perhaps you’re just getting familiar with a new way of performing a movement. The conscious tensing of your pecs during the entire exercise is most likely culprit. I’m sure that as you continue to utilize the approach, your non-back muscles will learn to relax more.

People get bicep pumps all the time from doing pulldowns, but if you question the more advanced folks in the gym, they’ll tell you that they’ve learned over time to actually relax their arms as they pull with their backs. It’ll come from repeated use, no doubt :slight_smile:

S[/quote]

Definitely seems to be what it was. I didn’t run into that issue the next time. I guess I didn’t give it long enough.

Thanks again.

Stu, I know you’ve mentioned many times that you’re best progress physique wise was when you stopped caring about the weight and started focusing on stimulating the muscle best. Can you explain how someone could use this approach? I’m not all that interested in getting “strong” anymore, and quite honestly I’ve always sucked at getting strong.

Problem is, I’m still focused on “more weight = progress” even though my goals are purely physique based. I literally have no idea how to progress if weight lifted isn’t a factor. I mean, I can get a great pump and burn on my muscle sure, but doing that week after week and not trying to increase the weight doesn’t make sense to me for improving. In my eyes, it seems like you wouldn’t really get bigger over time since you’re not making your body do more and more work. Yet it worked well for you and many other bodybuilders.

I just can’t wrap my head around it.

[quote]staystrong wrote:
I literally have no idea how to progress if weight lifted isn’t a factor. I mean, I can get a great pump and burn on my muscle sure, but doing that week after week and not trying to increase the weight doesn’t make sense to me for improving. In my eyes, it seems like you wouldn’t really get bigger over time since you’re not making your body do more and more work.
[/quote]

So I’m not Stu…with that said, I think there are two things that stand out to me in your comment:

  1. Your last statement - that you wouldn’t really get bigger over time since you’re not making your body do more work: you have to re-condition yourself to understand that weight is not necessarily equivalent to more effective stimulation of the target muscle. The amount of “work” has to be thought of not just in how much weight you’re moving, but how much work the targeted muscle is performing during a lift.

Honestly, the pec-deck was the place where I had my big “aha!” moment as I tried to put this into practice. I realized that I was actually getting a much better contraction when I loaded it to a lighter weight and really focused on using my pecs to move the weight rather than just moving the weights from Point A to Point B.

  1. “tracking progress” has to come in the form of measurements, bodyfat, or a qualitative look at pictures to see if you notice your body improving - all things that will take some time to truly notice, unlike completing a lift that can go from X pounds one day to X+10 pounds the next week.

I don’t think Stu means you stop lifting hard/heavy; I think he means that you define the quality of a workout in how effectively you stimulated the muscles rather than whether you moved X pounds or X+10 pounds.

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:

[quote]staystrong wrote:
I literally have no idea how to progress if weight lifted isn’t a factor. I mean, I can get a great pump and burn on my muscle sure, but doing that week after week and not trying to increase the weight doesn’t make sense to me for improving. In my eyes, it seems like you wouldn’t really get bigger over time since you’re not making your body do more and more work.
[/quote]

So I’m not Stu…with that said, I think there are two things that stand out to me in your comment:

  1. Your last statement - that you wouldn’t really get bigger over time since you’re not making your body do more work: you have to re-condition yourself to understand that weight is not necessarily equivalent to more effective stimulation of the target muscle. The amount of “work” has to be thought of not just in how much weight you’re moving, but how much work the targeted muscle is performing during a lift.

Honestly, the pec-deck was the place where I had my big “aha!” moment as I tried to put this into practice. I realized that I was actually getting a much better contraction when I loaded it to a lighter weight and really focused on using my pecs to move the weight rather than just moving the weights from Point A to Point B.

  1. “tracking progress” has to come in the form of measurements, bodyfat, or a qualitative look at pictures to see if you notice your body improving - all things that will take some time to truly notice, unlike completing a lift that can go from X pounds one day to X+10 pounds the next week.

I don’t think Stu means you stop lifting hard/heavy; I think he means that you define the quality of a workout in how effectively you stimulated the muscles rather than whether you moved X pounds or X+10 pounds.[/quote]

Hey man thanks for the reply. So if the goal is to make the muscle perform the most work it can, which a lot of times means lighting the load and focusing on just that muscle contracting, then do you ever really try to increase weight?

Do you even worry about if you get the same reps as last week? It’s just odd to me that you could lift the same weight for roughly the same reps week after week and yet get bigger. I feel like I’m overlooking something there.

My guess is that you would still try to increase the weight or reps eventually, but only if you can still put the same stress on the target muscle. In a way, that would still be increasing the weight but not sacrificing the main goal: stimulation of the muscle. But maybe I’m wrong with this thought too.

How do you know how effectively you stimulated the muscles though? I can leave the gym with a great pump from just a few sets of curls, but does that mean I stimulated the muscle effectively?

Unfortunately I view a lot of things as black and white (I blame math background on this), and it’s pretty black and white for increasing the weight. This seems more, i don’t know, abstract. I’ll admit that’s not something I’m good at.

Here is the simplest way to get the best of both worlds IMO.

Still include a few sets of standard heavy lifting.

For the rest of your sets, starting now, lighten the weight you lift on many exercises to get to a point where you can actually feel the muscle working throughout the set.

Use this as your new baseline and make small incremental increases to it (like you would with heavier weight). The focus is still on progressive resistance but now you are using weights that you can confidently contract the muscle.

[quote]timmcbride00 wrote:
Here is the simplest way to get the best of both worlds IMO.

Still include a few sets of standard heavy lifting.

For the rest of your sets, starting now, lighten the weight you lift on many exercises to get to a point where you can actually feel the muscle working throughout the set.

Use this as your new baseline and make small incremental increases to it (like you would with heavier weight). The focus is still on progressive resistance but now you are using weights that you can confidently contract the muscle.[/quote]

Thanks for the reply Tim, your approach makes sense. In the past, my biggest issue when I tried to approach it as you mentioned in your last paragraph was when I started increasing the weight, I started going back to just getting the weight up. I found it difficult to keep tension on the muscle and still progress, since my body would naturally want to go back to using whatever means necessary once weights got heavier.

It may be that I’m trying to progress too fast at the expense of feeling the muscle. Old habits die hard I guess, but I’m going to put your (and ActivitiesGuy’s) advice into practice. It’s just so hard to turn off that desire of “more weight!”, probably an ego thing.

Stu,

Not posting a link (because I don’t want anyone to think I’m pushing a product - which I’m not) but for me, the best thing I ever did in terms of making life better was buy this:

8 Steps to a Pain-Free Back: Natural Posture Solutions for Pain in the Back, Neck, Shoulder, Hip, Knee, and Foot Paperback
by Esther Gokhale

First, it completely blew my mind. She did her homework. Second, it works. I can sit for hours without pain, my posture is great, no more back pain. The only down side is that I had to get all of my suits re-tailored because my posture changed so radically.

–Me

P.S. I have absolutely no affiliation with her, her company, or anything else to do with training, pain management, etc. Its just a good ****ing book.

@StayStrong- Activities Guy pretty much hit my thinking on the head. I’ve never told anyone to go out of their way to lift light weights. Simply that the mentality of many of the gym rats when I first started training was to move as much weight as possible, at all costs. Progressive resistance training (the scientific jargon for anyone playing around with weights) means that there is some type of progression. The simplest way to measure a very obvious variable (especially for beginners) is to try and add more weight to the bar.

Obviously this isn’t a bad thing, but, as there are so many other factors involved, to simply ignore them, and their very important roles in contributing to muscle gain, will eventually lead you to the inevitable plateau of “I’m pretty strong, but I just can’t get my _____ to grow” that we’ve seen countless times.

Doing “work” doesn’t always mean you moved the most weight possible in the gym. One piece of advice I’ve been repeating over the years to clients, gym buddies, even co-workers who complain of not making progress, is “your muscles have no idea how much weight is on the bar.” All they know if how hard they are being called upon to work within a certain duration (that can be each set, or the total of your training session).

That means that some permutation of weight lifted, time under tension for target muscles, repetition cadence, state of target muscles going into a movement, ability of exercises chosen to hit specific muscle groups… will all factor in to whether you make physique progress or not.

Sure I’ve talked about how “chasing numbers” didn’t give me a Pro level physique, but learning to train properly did. That doesn’t mean that I went out of my way to train light. In fact, I’ve always hung around a good number of power lifters and strongman competitors and most would all agree that “for a bodybuilder”, I moved some pretty respectable poundages (550 squat, 500 dead, 385 flat bench - nothing to give a real PLer any competition, but I’m proud of 'em).

Your body will get stronger over time (to a point of course), it will just kinda happen if you’re continually pushing. But as someone who subjects themselves to the rigors of contest preps, you learn to me more mindful of the forest, not just the tress. During my first contest prep, I was still inclining sets of 275 a few weeks out. As the years went on, and I took a good hard look at the overall picture, I realized I could get the same stress by improving my performance of the movement, really milking it, avoiding portions of the ROM where I felt the stress lessen, even paying considerable attention to the sequencing of my chosen exercises for the day.

Sure I could still lay down on a flat bench and throw up 3+ plates if I did it first, BUT, I knew that my chest actually GREW better if I pre-exhausted first with cable flyes, and then used DB’s instead of a bar. Yes, it may not look as cool or impressive to the wanna be powerlifters throwing up more weight than they should be handling, and usually with form so bad it looks like they’re trying to give themselves scoliosis, but if your goal is a good looking physique, you have to keep a sane perspective.

S

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
@StayStrong- Activities Guy pretty much hit my thinking on the head. I’ve never told anyone to go out of their way to lift light weights. Simply that the mentality of many of the gym rats when I first started training was to move as much weight as possible, at all costs. Progressive resistance training (the scientific jargon for anyone playing around with weights) means that there is some type of progression. The simplest way to measure a very obvious variable (especially for beginners) is to try and add more weight to the bar.

Obviously this isn’t a bad thing, but, as there are so many other factors involved, to simply ignore them, and their very important roles in contributing to muscle gain, will eventually lead you to the inevitable plateau of “I’m pretty strong, but I just can’t get my _____ to grow” that we’ve seen countless times.

Doing “work” doesn’t always mean you moved the most weight possible in the gym. One piece of advice I’ve been repeating over the years to clients, gym buddies, even co-workers who complain of not making progress, is “your muscles have no idea how much weight is on the bar.” All they know if how hard they are being called upon to work within a certain duration (that can be each set, or the total of your training session).

That means that some permutation of weight lifted, time under tension for target muscles, repetition cadence, state of target muscles going into a movement, ability of exercises chosen to hit specific muscle groups… will all factor in to whether you make physique progress or not.

Sure I’ve talked about how “chasing numbers” didn’t give me a Pro level physique, but learning to train properly did. That doesn’t mean that I went out of my way to train light. In fact, I’ve always hung around a good number of power lifters and strongman competitors and most would all agree that “for a bodybuilder”, I moved some pretty respectable poundages (550 squat, 500 dead, 385 flat bench - nothing to give a real PLer any competition, but I’m proud of 'em).

Your body will get stronger over time (to a point of course), it will just kinda happen if you’re continually pushing. But as someone who subjects themselves to the rigors of contest preps, you learn to me more mindful of the forest, not just the tress. During my first contest prep, I was still inclining sets of 275 a few weeks out. As the years went on, and I took a good hard look at the overall picture, I realized I could get the same stress by improving my performance of the movement, really milking it, avoiding portions of the ROM where I felt the stress lessen, even paying considerable attention to the sequencing of my chosen exercises for the day.

Sure I could still lay down on a flat bench and throw up 3+ plates if I did it first, BUT, I knew that my chest actually GREW better if I pre-exhausted first with cable flyes, and then used DB’s instead of a bar. Yes, it may not look as cool or impressive to the wanna be powerlifters throwing up more weight than they should be handling, and usually with form so bad it looks like they’re trying to give themselves scoliosis, but if your goal is a good looking physique, you have to keep a sane perspective.

S
[/quote]

Thanks for the reply Stu. I know you never told anyone to try to lift lighter weights, just to make sure the weight is appropriate for stimulating the muscle. Which for some people (myself included) means stepping back from what they’re currently lifting.

I appreciate the advice from you guys, now just have to consistently keep my ego in check and stay focused on the real goal. Thanks.

[quote]staystrong wrote:
Thanks for the reply Stu. I know you never told anyone to try to lift lighter weights, just to make sure the weight is appropriate for stimulating the muscle. Which for some people (myself included) means stepping back from what they’re currently lifting.
[/quote]

Exactly! It just surprises me how many people misconstrue what this actually means. For every time I mention how top natty competitors like Brian Whitacre will point out how “not strong” they are, obviously they’re speaking relatively. They’d still bury the majority of people in any non-powerlifting gym with what they handle en route to their physique building goals.

Yates was always quick to say that if you’re not getting the size results you’re after, half your working weights and make sure you’re actually doing the work with your muscles. If you can separate your ego from the best route to your intended results, you’ll be much happier in the long run.

S

I guess one other thought, since this fascinates me:

You are still “progressing” if you are adding weight to the bar while still lifting the weight the same way. If I did EZ-bar curls with 95 pounds last week and then used 105 pounds this week with NO difference in my form, yes, I’ve made progress. But eventually most of us (whether we notice it or not) will start compromising form and the peak contraction/tension a little bit in the name of moving the extra weight. I can put 135 pounds on the EZ-curl bar and hoss it up, but I get a better bicep workout from that 95-pound strict curl than I do from a half-power-clean with 135 pounds.

This isn’t to say one should abandon heavy lifting, and some degree of “cheat reps” definitely has a place - there was a nice article a few weeks back about this (called something like “Big Guys Use Bad Form”). But the pursuit of more weight all the time definitely can come at the expense of adequate stimulation of targeted muscles.

Sorry for the threadjack, Stu, just offering one more thought on this subject :slight_smile:

stu, how big are your arms?

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
Sorry for the threadjack, Stu, just offering one more thought on this subject :)[/quote]

No worries brother. It’s a topic that I think a lot of people misunderstand. Heck, I’ve seen myself quoted incorrectly on other sites, and I just have to think “is it really so complicated?!” -lol

[quote] bobMartial wrote:
stu, how big are your arms? [/quote]

Offseason (when I weigh around 205 lbs) they tape at 18". When in contest shape, they’re closer to 17.5 (heaviest stage weight was 178 lbs)

I’ll freely admit though that they’ve always been a good bodypart for me.

S

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

Offseason (when I weigh around 205 lbs) they tape at 18". When in contest shape, they’re closer to 17.5 (heaviest stage weight was 178 lbs)

I’ll freely admit though that they’ve always been a good bodypart for me.

S[/quote]

Pumped or not?

Flexed or not?

Just curious.

[quote]timmcbride00 wrote:
Pumped or not?

Flexed or not?

Just curious.

[/quote]

Ya’ know, it’s funny, but when I first taped them at 18", it was later in the day after a morning workout, and even then, I only did so because my brother said I was looking particularly beefy. It was definitely flexed, but whatever pump there was, was left over several hours after training I suppose.

During my competitive years, I really did my best to stay away from the tape measures. Only from viewing post-contest lineup photos did I finally realize that my arms were a big strength in my physique. Also, I learned that I would lose a lot less muscle than other competitors (amateurs) did during cuts. I think that also made a huge difference when I compared myself to friends who seemed so huge in the offseason, but then would compete only 5 lbs heavier than I did.

S

Thanks Stu. I am still working to break 17" in off season mode (obviously would be smaller in contest prep, but like you, I don’t lose much off the arms because they don’t get too fat). Arms have become my new obsession.