Wow, Stu. Shoulders, calves, tris really pop out in the latest profile pic. Shoulders especially looking sick.
ID, LMAO at the packaging! Comedy gold 
Thanks for the great info Stu
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
ok I’m pretty sure I get it now
I’m guessing you don’t count rest periods? Sometimes I think I shouldn’t but then get the feeling like if you end up resting too long your not giving your muscles as much stimulus compared to last time. I guess in the long run you would know if your progressing though.[/quote]
Well, when I say I usually train for about 90 minutes, it’s not like I really keep track. I’m not looking at how much time is spent under the weights, vs how much is resting. It’s an approximation, especially when you consider that the amount of time I will rest between sets varies quite a bit. Some days I push ‘heavy’ weights and need a little more rest, and other days, I back off on the amount of weight, and keep the rest periods a little shorter.
In a similar manner, I also play with the number of exercises vs the number of sets. Some days get many different exercises for a couple of sets each, and other days get just a couple of exercises for a hell of a lot of sets each. I guess the main approach I keep in mind for my training, is that the body is able to adapt to whatever you throw at it (within reason of course). Because of this fact, you have to constantly give it a reason to try to adapt (hence, getting stronger, and if sufficient nutritional support permits, getting bigger).
S
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
PonceDeLeon wrote:
Kellogg’s should endorse Stu.
Stu should turn down BSN and all the other big name supp companies and instead be on the box of every flavor of Pop Tarts.
[/quote]
Nice!
[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Well, when I say I usually train for about 90 minutes, it’s not like I really keep track. I’m not looking at how much time is spent under the weights, vs how much is resting. It’s an approximation, especially when you consider that the amount of time I will rest between sets varies quite a bit. Some days I push ‘heavy’ weights and need a little more rest, and other days, I back off on the amount of weight, and keep the rest periods a little shorter.
In a similar manner, I also play with the number of exercises vs the number of sets. Some days get many different exercises for a couple of sets each, and other days get just a couple of exercises for a hell of a lot of sets each. I guess the main approach I keep in mind for my training, is that the body is able to adapt to whatever you throw at it (within reason of course). Because of this fact, you have to constantly give it a reason to try to adapt (hence, getting stronger, and if sufficient nutritional support permits, getting bigger).
S
[/quote]
So overall at this point your doing whatever you feel like (reasonably) when you hit the gym and you count on variety and intensity for progression (rather than added weight like in the past)?
Well, I like to think ‘intensity’ can be generated by any number of contributing factors. Obviously the amount of weight used in a given exercise, or the number of repetitions done compared to the previous session are the most basic ones used in the weight room. Anyone familiar with EDT training understands yet another way to create intensity.
It’s not like I’m trying to come up with totally new method of training or anything, I guess after a certain number of years, you develop and idea of what works for you and what doesn’t, additionally, you learn more once what once worked eventually stops yielding results. If you add to that the issue of accruing injuries and various aches and pains over the years (issues to ‘deal with’, or even train around), you get to know your body pretty well.
Reading the way we’re discussing this, it does sound like I have some totally well planned out approach, and I guess because I can make changes, and come up with so many different approaches on the fly, maybe I do, but I prefer to view it simply:
Do something in the gym that the body isn’t expecting today, and make it work damn hard to get it done.
(also, taking into account that I’m totally depleted from dieting, and fully understand that it’s not about gaining muscle now, just preserving. The options available will change drastically come May 3rd)
I’m sure if you were to write down what your current workout is, and tell me how long you’ve been taking that particular approach, the results it’s netted you, and how long it ‘worked’, I could come up with a whole bunch of variations, options, and slight changes. You’d be amazed how much even the most minute alteration can throw off your equilibrium.
S
Stu
I guess you’ve internalised all you know by now and just don’t think about all the details. Writing it out must bring out all the systematic bits you don’t usually consider.
How’re you handling dieting? I’m starting to feel a little crazy after dropping around 8% BF, cravings for sweet stuff and all. You were quite lean to begin with though, so I’m willing to bet you feel great!
Oh, I’m not sure if you addressed this before, but just in case you haven’t: I’m set on doing carb cycling for both cutting and bulking from now on. Do you also carb cycle off-season?
You know, it’s been a very enlightening experience suddenly having to actually put into words what I do diet and training wise. Obviously everyone has to learn how their own body will respond, and whatever I suggest, or describe can only give options, not always solutions. What worked for me may not work for you. The example I always make is the huge difference between Corey and myself. He’s 12 years younger (so that obviously affects his recovery, hormone profile, resilience to injuries -lol…), as well as being a hell of a lot taller (9 inches!), so it obviously factors into how he responds to what I might typically do if training on my own (even if it’s based on what HAS already worked for me in the past). Usually, it works out pretty well as he’s so gung-ho, he’ll suggest (read “FORCE”) exercises or approaches that I may not have been inclined to make use of.
I think one of the more brilliant things Mike Mentzer once said was that every bodybuilder has to be his own scientist in regards to finding what will work. The difficult part is giving each approach sufficient effort, and time to truly see if it will yield the desired results (which most seem not to do).
As far as the carb cycling, I guess I sort of approached my carb intake in the past in a very informal manner: keep them within reason during the week, and indulge a bit on weekends. Now, admittedly, I wasn’t actually keeping track, or logging anything. If I wanted a muffin with my coffee at a 7-11, I’d make sure I also ate a protein bar, or RTD shake with it (have the good with the bad). Obviously this isn’t the best approach, but at my usual 205-210 lbs, with at least 4 boxes of my abs showing, I sort of knew that I could get away with a lot of stuff because my body had to maintain a good amount of muscle that I had built up over the years. NOW, that I’ve had to undergo a very, VERY careful study of what I eat, when, and how it factors in with the rest of the week, I really doubt I will just go back to the old care-free approach. The day or two after the show will most likely be an insulin induced blur, and the fact that my Birthday is a few days after (and my GF’s a few days after mine), I’m sure to be partaking of some serious garbage. I do intend to get right back in the gym Monday, and will be ensuring that I’m at least eating some protein every few hours. I did read Thib’s Carb Cycling Article, and it is essentially what I ‘borrowed’ from Natty Pro BBer Brian Whitacre, which makes all the sense in the world.
Whether I keep any cardio days in my rotation is doubtful, but an occasional ‘off’ day will certainly warrant a lower intake. I actually did my calculations based on my new lower bodyweight, and obviously is wasn’t what I used to eat, but should allow me to slowly, and with a minimal fat gain, build myself back up over a few months. I’ve said that if I do respectable at this show that I plan on staying within 20 lbs of my contest weight, which means 190 lbs. Of course if I can get back up to 190, and keep the veins that are now pretty prominent in my lower abs, inner thighs, and middle delts, I think I can learn to live with not being over two bills 
I’d also like to throw out there that I’ve answered a bunch of PMs on here just the past two weeks. If anyone wants to just post up stuff on this thread, some of the answers (I can really get rolling sometimes!) might be of interest to other folks.
S
Stu-
Do you drink? If so, how far out did you eliminate alcohol? I know T-Nation wrote an article about alcohol consumption in late '08, but I wanted to hear some feedback from someone ‘in the trenches.’
Also, what was your caloric progression (or should I say retrogression) during your ‘pre-contest’ phase?
Stu-
Thank for that great post on the first page. It was awesome and gave me hope (also was 5’9’’ 150 lbs just a year ago).
How did you make the transition to training only 3 days a week? What did you do on your off days and the two consecutive days off? As a former track runner, I get really very antsy if I don’t do anything on the days off. What do you recommend?
Oh, and my favorite part about OP’s first picture of you is the guy in the background on the right, saying “oh my god…”
Sorry if this was answered Stu but have you ever tried the ramping method being talked about a lot on here?
I’m not sure if you read the “professor x: a request” thread but it talks about it there and CC has mentioned it a lot. According to them it’s how almost every really big guy they know trains (and pro). After finding that out I thought it was interesting how you actually do a lot more volume than many pro’s and other guys.
Okay, let’s get to these questions! -lol
JBIRD- While I did the frat-thing in college, and yes, did have some insane house parties, I was never a huge drinker, especially later in life (grad school, work etc). Not that I cared about the ‘empty calories’ that every bitches about, but I read somewhere back when I first started training (and as such, I’ve repeated it over and over again), that it doesn’t take much alcohol intake to essentially blunt your Growth Hormone release for up to 48 hours.
Now, I’m no scientist, and I can’t verify the exact details, but if you ask me, considering that your body is constantly repairing what you did in the gym a few days earlier, do you really want to throw such a wrench into the works? My middle brother was always crazy strong in the gym, and even though he still lifts and eats ‘healthy’ (I don’t mean BBer healthy, I mean, actually healthy stuff), he loves to drink, especially on weekends, and even a night or two during the week.
Bottom line is that we’re the same height, and basic structures, and while we both usually weigh about 205, I look like a bodybuilder, and he looks soft. He’s still pretty big alright (will wear the sleeveless shirt, but not the tank), but no one will mistake him for me.
As far as my caloric regression, I’ll try to break it into stages if that helps.
-First, I figured my BMR was about 3400, so I simply started writing down what I ate, and tried to get between 3000 - 3100 cals a day. I didn’t really worry about macros yet, as I usually eat a lot of protein, and good carb sources. I figured this would be a minor adjustment, but would allow for 3/4 to a lb of weight loss a week. I did this for a couple of months and came down from 205 to about 190. I didn’t make a big deal out of this, because I figured if I could get to 190, then I’d honestly see about doing a real contest diet.
-To start things off, I believe I patterned a cyclical approach on Brian Whitacre’s numbers (check his site, it’s got a lot of great info!). In hindsight, I believe the numbers were a little too low to start with, but it did give my weight loss a big kick off (I remember doing several LOW days in a row just to really get going. I wouldn’t do it that way again). I don’t actually have my notebook in front of me, but I do recall that my HIGH days were about 3000-3500 cals, and at least 250g carbs, which is a huge difference between what they are now, 2.5 weeks out (2500 cals, 120g carbs!).
-The actual ‘drops’ were not always very drastic, in fact, I’m certain that because my body was constantly unsure of what it was getting from day to day, that I was able to eat more than someone who just keeps dropping 100 cals every couple of weeks (the body will adapt to anything given enough time). IN fact, I think it’s really interesting that lately all we keep hearing is about carb-cycling, when most of the Natty pros I talk to have been doing it all through their careers, and consider it the best way to maintain LBM.
-In regards to the Cardio employed, I didn’t do ANY until I was about 10 weeks out, and at that point, it was really just a 15 min interval session once or twice a week. I believe I initially was doing it on my shortest weight training day, but eventually realized that it was just too much (muscle preservation should be paramount in any contest diet) for my body to handle, so I actually split my bodyparts to allow for an ‘off’ day which would only entail abs, and some intervals (and later I threw in some forearm work, which has really brought out my veins).
I’m sure someone can go look through the thread and figure out the actual details, and I’m hoping to sit down with my notebook once this is over, and to a week by week summary of the numbers so I can use it as reference, for myself, as well as my training partner Corey who is hoping to compete next Spring (we’ve both agreed with our friend Mike to all enter the same contest in 3 different weight classes).
BSRUNNER- You have to remember (I think I wrote about this somewhere on here) that from running all the time (and playing hockey on 2 teams!), my metabolism was flying. My buddy Scott, although having a damn good build himself, was able to train 7 days a week, with no days off. I’m sure he was caught up in all those old “Weider Training Principles” and other BS that was being published at the time. I followed Scott around the gym for over a year gaining maybe a lb in the process.
THe bottom line was that even though he could make gains from that approach, I couldn’t (some people can make gains no matter how much their training flies in the face of all logic). I had started reading every magazine I could (got a job at a GNC -lol), and luckily Muscle Media 2000 was fairly new, and actually had useful info in it. With that mag, and some articles on Dorian Yates’ training approach (he was the new Mr. O at the time), I backed off a little bit to 4 days a week. I also moved off campus, and suddenly had to cook for myself.
Nothing complicated, but a steady diet of cold cuts, boil in a bag rice, peanut butter and whole wheat bagels, tuna mixed in Mac n Cheese, and whatever protein shakes or bars I got discounted from work, made a big difference from the SUNY Albany Cafeteria.
The 3 day split came when I went to grad school at NYU. I didn’t have a lot of time to ‘waste’ in the gym. I had made gains with a Yates-inspired split, and having read up as much as I could on Mentzer, I tried his basic split which was outlined in his original Heavy Duty book.
It was perfect time-wise, and I will say that I got really strong during this period in my training. Foodwise, I was also very simplistic in what I ate, protein shake and rice cakes with PB for breakfast, lots of tuna, chicken and turkey patties, lbs and lbs of cashews and always 2 protein bars at a time while in class.I truly felt like I had moved into the more intellectual approach to working out. I wasn’t just going in to the gym and lifting as much weight as possible, I was now really thinking about what I was trying to do. What muscle I was trying to stimulate, and if it was working, or if I had to assess the situation and try something else.
What did I do on my ‘off’ days? Well, in graduate school, there’s always something you should be doing! -lol. I guess you could get away with any hobby that isn’t physically stressful (an excessive amount of sports would definitely impair your muscle gains), and as long as you’re not putting on fat faster than muscle, eating a little less on those days shouldn’t even be a concern.
PUMPED340- I’ll admit to not having heard of ‘ramping’ before. You will notice though, that most of the guys who have been training for a very long time come to an understanding of their own bodies. Prof X is a beast, but realize that he wasn’t always, and that the way he trains now is different from what he did when he first started out. I doubt you will find any pro who still trains exactly the same as they did their 1st year of training. Sure, occasionally you’ll read some guy saying “why change what works”, but that’s usually a temporary situation.
The example I always cite is a couple of old articles by Chris Cormier. One year he was going on and on about how only high reps build legs. A year later (and I used to keep all my old muscle mags, so I’d reread them all the time), he had an article about how discovering low reps was truly the holy grail for legs, and nothing else would work as well. You see where this is going? The old bodybuilding adage “everything works, but nothing works for long” is quite applicable.
The Volume I presently use, is only because of a couple of injuries. After 16 years of training, and at least 14 of them truly heavy as hell all the time, I’ve had a couple of back injuries, partially torn both biceps, torn my right quad and hip flexor, torn my right forearm, and have a good amount of tendonitis starting up. I certainly wouldn’t advocate this sort of training for anyone in their early attempts at packing on size. I WOULD however, make sure that they do not lift heavy weights for low reps day in and day out. Whether you agree that it can put on muscle or not, some sort of periodization is necessary just to stay healthy and making progress in the long run.
Geez, you guys are getting a damn book out of me every time I check in here -lol.
S
so do you think you’ll ever try it? I know your not focusing on just using heavier weights at this point but who knows, maybe ramping could help you add more muscle than you thought?
You obviously know your body very well at this point but if nothing else maybe it would be a nice change and a learning experience to see how you’d react.
On the other side I definitely can get too into hype about how good one method is sometimes so I’m glad I have big guys from both sides to level me out lol. After reading that “pyramid or not” thread it’s really caught my interest and I’m seeing a trend
Stu-
Thank you so much for your comprehensive responses. They will be invaluable for anyone looking for ‘real world’ advice. This thread should be stickied.
Try to understand, I USED to train damn heavy, low reps, and very low volume ALL THE TIME. It’s really only the last year or so, due mostly from a back injury in a strongman contest, and a really bad forearm/bicep tendon issue that made me deviate. In all honesty, I’ve got the itch in the back of my mind to go back to my old style of training after my show in a couple of weeks. I figure with the nice ‘rebound’ I’ll get from eating again, it would be perfect to take advantage of the momentum, and focus on training less overall (which always gave me pretty good results). Sure, I may not stay with it indefinitely, but I figure a couple of months of hard/heavy, low rep compound work will be an actual ‘break’ compared to what I’ve been doing getting ready for a show. It also occurs to me that if I don’t eat totally indiscriminately during the weeks following the show (except for a day or two total binge), I can put on a much greater ratio of muscle to fat than when I initially brought me body mass up from 150 to 220 over about 12 years’ time.
JBIRD- Glad you appreciate the responses. I’m usually the guy in the gym that most of the younger kids come to with questions. I look at is this way: I was lucky when I started that I had people like my college buddy Scott to guide me, and explain things on a regular basis. Sure I learned a lot more afterward, but I try to be the helpful more experienced trainer that I would have loved to have had access to when I first started. Someone to stop me from making bad decisions, or wasting my time. I totally take credit for my youngest brothers’ initial gym gains. I knew what my other brother and myself had done wrong, and made sure this one didn’t do the same things (He gained 30 lbs in his 1st year training!)
So feel free to keep asking away. I’m enjoying this.
S
Hey I gained 30lb. my first year too! lol…then it stopped 
I get what you mean now about your old training, I knew you trained heavier but I didn’t know you trained low volume too. It’s almost a relief to read that, like it goes with what I’ve been reading lol.
Thanks
Stu, thank for the response! Everyone is asking great questions and you definitely know a shit-ton more than I do. keep up the great work
Hey Stu
I was wondering if you have any advice on getting ones bench up?
I’ve been going at it for about three years now and sure I can get 185 lbs for 5. It’s a pretty shitty number by my own standard.
[quote]While my lifts were nothing a ‘real’ powerlifter would even notice, they were pretty good for me. I’ve always maintained that I’m a weak powerlifter, but a damn strong bodybuilder -lol.
I was probably pushing my heaviest weights when I was weighing about 195 lbs or so. My bests that I can recall:
Back Squat - 550
Front squat - 275 (5 reps)
Full Dead - 500
Flat Bench - 385 (for 2 reps, I totally regret not trying for 400, but this was the beginning of my shoulder problems -lol)
Inline BB - 315
Military Press BB - 275 [/quote]
DAMN STRONG STU!!!
I’m sure many powerlifters @ your size would be jealous!
First off Stu -
Epic thread. You’re a well of time tested knowledge.
I tried to do my best reading through your posts without missing a single drop of wisdom.
What frequency/duration for LI cardio for a run of the mill natural BBer cutting for a competition?
Lets say the BBer exemplified is training 3 or 4 days a week.