Israel Untouchable?!?

Israel Untouchable my fuckin ass…
There was an article posted a few weeks ago in this forum abou israel being untouchable. the israelis think they are powerful and strong and have honor and heart. BULLSHIT. They cant survive one day on their own.

Without the U.S. israel wouldn’t exist. they are “untouchable” because America protects them. they are only strong because america supplies them with weapons, planes, etc. They are bragging about their strength, when they had nothing to do with it.

YOU DONT SEND SOMEONE TO FIGHT FOR YOU AND THEN TELL EVERYONE THAT YOU KICKED THE OTHER KID’S ASS EVEN THOUGH YOUR FRIEND REALLY DID.

ISRAEL NEVER BUILT THEMSELVES. THEY COULDN’T. THEY WERE TOO FUCKING WEAK.
The U.S. is what built them.

Israel relies solely on the U.S. they can’t do shit wihout america.

Did america get 150% of all its strngth from other countries. Fuck no.
america built itself from the ground up. they made themselves stronger. they did it and they didn’t take shit from anyone.

Hey, at least your 6th post didn’t say exactly what your first 5 did:

what the hell do you mean what have the arabs done that is good for anybody. Where does the usa get more than 60% of its oil from?Arabs fuel this country. They could cut off the oil supply to the united states and it wouldn’t exist anymore, neither would israel.The only reason arabs dont do that is because the US is their #1 customer. and if they lose them then they lose lots of money.So rememeber who really gives you heat in your home during the winter or gasoline in your car that takes you to work everyday the next time your pumping gas. If you don’t like the arabs then dont be saying what good have they done for anybody while your filling up gas in your car. You can get oil from russia, but they dont really like the us very much do they. or you can use your own oil in alaska, oh wait a minute the pipeline has just closed down and will be closed for the nex several months because of severe eroding because BP didn’t think it was necessary to clean it up. People don’t really notice this, but arabs are the ones who rule the United States and the rest of the world!

what the hell do you mean what have the arabs done that is good for anybody. Where does the usa get more than 60% of its oil from?Arabs fuel this country. They could cut off the oil supply to the united states and it wouldn’t exist anymore, neither would israel.The only reason arabs dont do that is because the US is their #1 customer. and if they lose them then they lose lots of money. So rememeber who really gives you heat in your home during the winter or gasoline in your car that takes you to work everyday the next time your pumping gas. If you don’t like the arabs then dont be saying what good have they done for anybody while your filling up gas in your car. You can get oil from russia, but they dont really like the us very much do they. or you can use your own oil in alaska, oh wait a minute the pipeline has just closed down and will be closed for the nex several months because of severe eroding because BP didn’t think it was necessary to clean it up. People don’t really notice this, but arabs are the ones who rule the United States and the rest of the world!

what the hell do you mean what have the arabs done that is good for anybody. Where does the usa get more than 60% of its oil from?Arabs fuel this country. They could cut off the oil supply to the united states and it wouldn’t exist anymore, neither would israel.The only reason arabs dont do that is because the US is their #1 customer. and if they lose them then they lose lots of money. So rememeber who really gives you heat in your home during the winter or gasoline in your car that takes you to work everyday the next time your pumping gas. If you don’t like the arabs then dont be saying what good have they done for anybody while your filling up gas in your car. You can get oil from russia, but they dont really like the us very much do they. or you can use your own oil in alaska, oh wait a minute the pipeline has just closed down and will be closed for the nex several months because of severe eroding because BP didn’t think it was necessary to clean it up. People don’t really notice this, but arabs are the ones who rule the United States and the rest of the world!

what the hell do you mean what have the arabs done that is good for anybody. Where does the usa get more than 60% of its oil from?Arabs fuel this country. They could cut off the oil supply to the united states and it wouldn’t exist anymore, neither would israel.The only reason arabs dont do that is because the US is their #1 customer. and if they lose them then they lose lots of money. So rememeber who really gives you heat in your home during the winter or gasoline in your car that takes you to work everyday the next time your pumping gas. If you don’t like the arabs then dont be saying what good have they done for anybody while your filling up gas in your car. You can get oil from russia, but they dont really like the us very much do they. or you can use your own oil in alaska, oh wait a minute the pipeline has just closed down and will be closed for the nex several months because of severe eroding because BP didn’t think it was necessary to clean it up. People don’t really notice this, but arabs are the ones who rule the United States and the rest of the world!

what the hell do you mean what have the arabs done that is good for anybody. Where does the usa get more than 60% of its oil from?Arabs fuel this country. They could cut off the oil supply to the united states and it wouldn’t exist anymore, neither would israel.The only reason arabs dont do that is because the US is their #1 customer. and if they lose them then they lose lots of money. So rememeber who really gives you heat in your home during the winter or gasoline in your car that takes you to work everyday the next time your pumping gas. If you don’t like the arabs then dont be saying what good have they done for anybody while your filling up gas in your car. You can get oil from russia, but they dont really like the us very much do they. or you can use your own oil in alaska, oh wait a minute the pipeline has just closed down and will be closed for the nex several months because of severe eroding because BP didn’t think it was necessary to clean it up. People don’t really notice this, but arabs are the ones who rule the United States and the rest of the world!

[quote]PeCziLLa88 wrote:
Did america get 150% of all its strngth from other countries. Fuck no.
america built itself from the ground up. they made themselves stronger. they did it and they didn’t take shit from anyone.[/quote]

Let me begin by saying that I believe the U.S. is the greatest country in the history of the world, not necessarily because we can kick everyone else’s ass, but because of our relatively successful assimilation of disparate immigrant groups and our opportunities for class advancement and our preservation of personal freedoms.

Now, as for PeCaiLLa88:

Type “American Revolution” and “France” or “Spain” or “the Dutch” into your search engine. I know what you find won’t fit with your thesis that Arabs and “Americans” (by which, I take it, you only mean Christian Americans) are righteous supermen and Jews are evil and weak; all I can say is I’m sorry (no, I’m not) and you’re an ignoramus (yes, you are).

[quote]PeCziLLa88 wrote:
Israel Untouchable my fuckin ass…
There was an article posted a few weeks ago in this forum abou israel being untouchable. the israelis think they are powerful and strong and have honor and heart. BULLSHIT. They cant survive one day on their own.

Without the U.S. israel wouldn’t exist. they are “untouchable” because America protects them. they are only strong because america supplies them with weapons, planes, etc. They are bragging about their strength, when they had nothing to do with it.

YOU DONT SEND SOMEONE TO FIGHT FOR YOU AND THEN TELL EVERYONE THAT YOU KICKED THE OTHER KID’S ASS EVEN THOUGH YOUR FRIEND REALLY DID.

ISRAEL NEVER BUILT THEMSELVES. THEY COULDN’T. THEY WERE TOO FUCKING WEAK.
The U.S. is what built them.

Israel relies solely on the U.S. they can’t do shit wihout america.

Did america get 150% of all its strngth from other countries. Fuck no.
america built itself from the ground up. they made themselves stronger. they did it and they didn’t take shit from anyone.[/quote]

So your faulting Israel for having strong allies?

If my country was in a corner of the world that was surounded by countries that didn’t just hate my counrty, but desired it’s total destruction, I would seek out strong allies as well.

Think about it.

The OP obviously has an issue with Israel which borders upon the pychotic. Taking that out of the equation and addressin his main point, I would say this.

Name one American soldier that fought in the recent war against Hezbollah in Lebanon? Name one American soldier that died in the 1967 war where Israel defeated all of its enemies attacking at the same time? Name one U.S. soldier who perished in the 1972 Yom Kippur war?

You see, just because you provide the boxing gloves to someone and then that guy kicks the other guys behind, you think the guy who gave the boxing gloves deserves credit for the win? No, of course not. The guy still had to use the gloves to fight.

This is exactly what the situation with Israel is. We provided funds and arms so that Israel can survive as the only democracy and ally in the Middle East.

Also, and the OP should really study this before responding. If you study the history of the Middle East in the early 20th Century with regard to Great Britian, you will see that when the British turned their back upon Israel by renegging on the Balfour Declaration, Britian basically lost its Empire. When America, however, took up the mantle and assisted Israel which culminated in teh 1948 U.N. vote, America has been blessed and remains the only true superpower in the world.

Steveo,

Your post was dead on.

I just don’t think that the original poster really has thought through the issue. He seems to be arguing from a basis of emotion rather than a basis of logic IMHO.

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
PeCziLLa88 wrote:
Israel Untouchable my fuckin ass…
There was an article posted a few weeks ago in this forum abou israel being untouchable. the israelis think they are powerful and strong and have honor and heart. BULLSHIT. They cant survive one day on their own.

Without the U.S. israel wouldn’t exist. they are “untouchable” because America protects them. they are only strong because america supplies them with weapons, planes, etc. They are bragging about their strength, when they had nothing to do with it.

YOU DONT SEND SOMEONE TO FIGHT FOR YOU AND THEN TELL EVERYONE THAT YOU KICKED THE OTHER KID’S ASS EVEN THOUGH YOUR FRIEND REALLY DID.

ISRAEL NEVER BUILT THEMSELVES. THEY COULDN’T. THEY WERE TOO FUCKING WEAK.
The U.S. is what built them.

Israel relies solely on the U.S. they can’t do shit wihout america.

Did america get 150% of all its strngth from other countries. Fuck no.
america built itself from the ground up. they made themselves stronger. they did it and they didn’t take shit from anyone.

So your faulting Israel for having strong allies?

If my country was in a corner of the world that was surounded by countries that didn’t just hate my counrty, but desired it’s total destruction, I would seek out strong allies as well.

Think about it.

[/quote]

I’m not faulting israel for having strong allies. i got pissed off because israel was calling themselves untouchable acting like they made themselves powerful, they are taking all the credit for their strength, yet the U.S. is what makes them strong, not the israelis themselves.

[quote]WhiteCaesar wrote:

Type “American Revolution” and “France” or “Spain” or “the Dutch” into your search engine. I know what you find won’t fit with your thesis that Arabs and “Americans” (by which, I take it, you only mean Christian Americans) are righteous supermen and Jews are evil and weak; all I can say is I’m sorry (no, I’m not) and you’re an ignoramus (yes, you are).
[/quote]

I don’t post (or even read) in this forum very much, but when I have, I’ve noticed this before. Why does saying anything negative about Israel so often get people called anti-semetic?

Why can’t he have a problem with the country without having a problem with Jews? The actions and words of politicians don’t even represent everyone in their own country, much less all jews worldwide.

Just wondering where you, and whoever else it is that makes that connection, gets it from, since it seems to be a running thing around here.

You’re absolutely right that criticizing Israel shouldn’t automatically get you tagged as anti-semitic. I criticize the government of Israel all the time, just as I criticize our own government and the governments of the various Arab states, but I don’t consider myself anti-semitic, anti-American, or anti-Arab.

I hope, however, that you’re not denying that racism and anti-semitism exist and that people who spout their rhetoric often try to couch it in “acceptable” terms. For example, even the leaders of certain terrorist organizations tend to say “Zionist” when what they really mean is “Jew.” Racists (and anti-semites) tend to have code words; I assume that’s true in Australia as well.

Look at these quotations from the OP and consider who he means when he says “they” as in “they were too fucking weak [to build Israel]”:

[quote]PeCziLLa88 wrote:
the israelis think they are powerful and strong and have honor and heart. BULLSHIT.

they are “untouchable” because America protects them. they are only strong because america supplies them with weapons, planes, etc. They are bragging about their strength, when they had nothing to do with it.

ISRAEL NEVER BUILT THEMSELVES. THEY COULDN’T. THEY WERE TOO FUCKING WEAK.
[/quote]

I have to agree with OP that Israel really wouldn’t be shit without the United States. However, a good point was brought up, why would Israel not want a powerful ally such as our country? It’s smart, because they need us in order to stay alive so they damn well should rely on us to save their ass, worked well for France over the years eh?

The OP was right. Israel are an arrogant state, because of US intervention and support. I can clearly see why Israel wants USA as an ally, and vice versa.

The way the OP expressed this fact was really furious, as far as i’m concerned. It looks like you typed it in one breath. But, you have a point. Imbalances of power lead to injustice, and historical reaction which ledas to new, different balances/imbalances.

I don’t think it’s cool that Israel is both militarily unassailable (good for it’s self-preservation, that’s cool) and also politically imperious and hiding behind ‘anti-semitism’.

For the record, if i disagree with US policy, i am not a black/white/yellow/brown supremacist. True? The same goes for Israel, or any other country.

Israeli policy is decided by pwoerful Israelis, and maybe Americans too. Hatred of these policies doesn’t mean hatred of Israelis as a whole.

This is also a good point [quote] You see, just because you provide the boxing gloves to someone and then that guy kicks the other guys behind, you think the guy who gave the boxing gloves deserves credit for the win? No, of course not. The guy still had to use the gloves to fight.[/quote]

It’s guns and helicopters, tanks and bulldozers, not boxing gloves, of course, but good point.

But Steveo, look into post-Balfour and stuff again. Reneging/ being too weak to be an arbiter is a SYMPTOM of Britain losing it’s empire.

[quote]dannyrat wrote:
For the record, if i disagree with US policy, i am not a black/white/yellow/brown supremacist. True? The same goes for Israel, or any other country.
[/quote]

Danny, of course it’s true that disagreeing with Israeli policy doesn’t make you an anti-semite, but that doesn’t mean that the world does not contain anti-semites who disagree with Israeli policy (and, really, the existence of Israel) strictly because they hate Jews and the idea of a Jewish state.

The OP, I think, would fall into this category. (Please see my above post and tell me who he’s referring to in the sentence, “They were too fucking weak [to build Israel].”)

As for the idea that Israel would not exist without US support, can anyone name a country besides the US and China and Russia (sort of) that exists without the patronage of some other larger, richer, more powerful nation?

[quote]Bullmoose wrote:
WhiteCaesar wrote:

Type “American Revolution” and “France” or “Spain” or “the Dutch” into your search engine. I know what you find won’t fit with your thesis that Arabs and “Americans” (by which, I take it, you only mean Christian Americans) are righteous supermen and Jews are evil and weak; all I can say is I’m sorry (no, I’m not) and you’re an ignoramus (yes, you are).

I don’t post (or even read) in this forum very much, but when I have, I’ve noticed this before. Why does saying anything negative about Israel so often get people called anti-semetic?

Why can’t he have a problem with the country without having a problem with Jews? The actions and words of politicians don’t even represent everyone in their own country, much less all jews worldwide.

Just wondering where you, and whoever else it is that makes that connection, gets it from, since it seems to be a running thing around here.
[/quote]

Because that is usually the case. If you are against Israel, being a Jewish
State you will usually find anti-semitism also.

[quote]WhiteCaesar wrote:

[/quote]

I guess I missed the meaning of that sentence, as it was in the middle of a rant about Israel as a nation, and the attitude they give to the world. I can see where you were coming, now that I look closer at it.

That being said, I’m not trying to say that anti-semitism doesn’t exist, but I do think that, particularly from what I’ve seen on these boards, it’s a term that gets tossed around at anybody who isn’t firmly pro-Israel. It gets to the point where it’s just a meaningless attack even when it’s justified, rather than the accurate condemnation it would be if used properly. Of course, the more I think about it, the more I realize no amount of posting by me will change some people’s auto-defense mechanisms, so it really doesn’t matter. It’s silly, is all.

I definitely disagree with this. There are plenty of faults to be found with Israel, all of them to do with their behaviour, as an entity, rather than their collective faith. Accusing people who call them out on those faults strikes me more as a way to avoid having to deal with them, than as being productive. Even if someone was anti-semetic, if they make a valid point, calling them names or pointing out their bias doesn’t change the facts.

I once lived next door to a gay couple. They were assholes. Pretty much everyone in the building hated them. They accused
us all of being homophobic, and every newcomer to the building disliked them as well. If they would have quit hiding behind their gayness (?), and just shut up their damn dog and made a few other efforts to be courteous, they wouldn’t have had any problems with us. Instead, they bitched and complained, and nobody like them.

I think that if Israel, and Israel’s supporters, made the effort to be ‘courteous’ to the international community (i.e. tone down the arrogance and abide by ALL relevant U.N. resolutions) instead of just labelling people as anti-semites and/or terrorists, then their lives would be easier, because then they’d have only the anti-semites to deal with (admittedly still a major problem, but a smaller one), rather than the anti-semites as well as the people they’ve pissed off.

That was pretty far off the topic of the thread, but like I said, I don’t read or post here often, so I might as well make the most of it when I do.

[quote]Bullmoose wrote:
WhiteCaesar wrote:

I guess I missed the meaning of that sentence, as it was in the middle of a rant about Israel as a nation, and the attitude they give to the world. I can see where you were coming, now that I look closer at it.

That being said, I’m not trying to say that anti-semitism doesn’t exist, but I do think that, particularly from what I’ve seen on these boards, it’s a term that gets tossed around at anybody who isn’t firmly pro-Israel. It gets to the point where it’s just a meaningless attack even when it’s justified, rather than the accurate condemnation it would be if used properly. Of course, the more I think about it, the more I realize no amount of posting by me will change some people’s auto-defense mechanisms, so it really doesn’t matter. It’s silly, is all.

Because that is usually the case. If you are against Israel, being a Jewish
State you will usually find anti-semitism also.

I definitely disagree with this. There are plenty of faults to be found with Israel, all of them to do with their behaviour, as an entity, rather than their collective faith. Accusing people who call them out on those faults strikes me more as a way to avoid having to deal with them, than as being productive. Even if someone was anti-semetic, if they make a valid point, calling them names or pointing out their bias doesn’t change the facts.

I once lived next door to a gay couple. They were assholes. Pretty much everyone in the building hated them. They accused
us all of being homophobic, and every newcomer to the building disliked them as well. If they would have quit hiding behind their gayness (?), and just shut up their damn dog and made a few other efforts to be courteous, they wouldn’t have had any problems with us. Instead, they bitched and complained, and nobody like them.

I think that if Israel, and Israel’s supporters, made the effort to be ‘courteous’ to the international community (i.e. tone down the arrogance and abide by ALL relevant U.N. resolutions) instead of just labelling people as anti-semites and/or terrorists, then their lives would be easier, because then they’d have only the anti-semites to deal with (admittedly still a major problem, but a smaller one), rather than the anti-semites as well as the people they’ve pissed off.

That was pretty far off the topic of the thread, but like I said, I don’t read or post here often, so I might as well make the most of it when I do.[/quote]

Bullmoose:

A simple method of distinguishing would be someone who has an informed, more tempered criticism of Israel, versus someone who has baseless and wild accusations that are clearly fueled by passion. See the following examples:

  1. Non-Anti-Semetic Criticism of Israel: The Israeli government made a mistake in allowing settlers to build homesteads on lands that were captured in armed conflicts with the Arab states. This would have made a policy of returning said lands to Palestinians much easier.

  2. Anti-Semetic Criticism of Israel: The Israeli government isn’t shit. They are just a bunch of rapists and imperialists who bully innocents to promote their own desires. Fuck them. They wouldn’t be a thing if it wasn’t for the United States giving them guns and bombs and planes.

If many accusations of anti-Semitism arise in this thread (I have made such claims myself) it is because there is unfortunately too much of the latter.

[quote]eic wrote:
Bullmoose:

  1. Non-Anti-Semetic Criticism of Israel: …
  2. Anti-Semetic Criticism of Israel:

If many accusations of anti-Semitism arise in this thread (I have made such claims myself) it is because there is unfortunately too much of the latter. [/quote]

I don’t really agree that there’s any reason to think that second criticism is anti-semetic. It’s irrational and pointless, but you can easily find irrational and pointless “criticisms” of Canada, France, Australia, UK, US, and probably every other country on blogs and forums everywhere. I don’t know what makes people think they need to rant like that, but I know it’s just the reality of forums, and I don’t think it’s any different when it comes to talking smack about Israel.

Maybe I just don’t associate Israel with all jews and most people do, I guess, but my perspective is that it’s a term that gets tossed around so much that it’s lost all significance.

What has israel done that was good for anybody?
what have they given back to the united states besides being their ally.

do they supply the US with oil? NO
do they supply the US with anything? NO

ANd one more thing you bastards. im not anti semitic. if i was i would have used the word jews instead of israelis. Scratch that even saying israelis is being a little anti semitic. please excuse that. i am referring to the israeli government.

If SAudi arabia and kuwait went to war with israel. Which side would the U.S. be on.

The U.S. doesn’t need israel
The U.S. definitey needs Saudi arabia and Kuwait.

[quote]PeCziLLa88 wrote:
the israelis think they are powerful and strong and have honor and heart. BULLSHIT.

ISRAEL NEVER BUILT THEMSELVES. THEY COULDN’T. THEY WERE TOO FUCKING WEAK.
The U.S. is what built them.
[/quote]

Of course these posts are about the Israeli government. Why would anyone think they were about Jews? It wasn’t the Jews who built Israel (or who, according to you, were “too fucking weak” to build it)… yeah, that’s the ticket.

[quote]eic wrote:
Bullmoose wrote:
WhiteCaesar wrote:

I guess I missed the meaning of that sentence, as it was in the middle of a rant about Israel as a nation, and the attitude they give to the world. I can see where you were coming, now that I look closer at it.

That being said, I’m not trying to say that anti-semitism doesn’t exist, but I do think that, particularly from what I’ve seen on these boards, it’s a term that gets tossed around at anybody who isn’t firmly pro-Israel. It gets to the point where it’s just a meaningless attack even when it’s justified, rather than the accurate condemnation it would be if used properly. Of course, the more I think about it, the more I realize no amount of posting by me will change some people’s auto-defense mechanisms, so it really doesn’t matter. It’s silly, is all.

Because that is usually the case. If you are against Israel, being a Jewish
State you will usually find anti-semitism also.

I definitely disagree with this. There are plenty of faults to be found with Israel, all of them to do with their behaviour, as an entity, rather than their collective faith. Accusing people who call them out on those faults strikes me more as a way to avoid having to deal with them, than as being productive. Even if someone was anti-semetic, if they make a valid point, calling them names or pointing out their bias doesn’t change the facts.

I once lived next door to a gay couple. They were assholes. Pretty much everyone in the building hated them. They accused
us all of being homophobic, and every newcomer to the building disliked them as well. If they would have quit hiding behind their gayness (?), and just shut up their damn dog and made a few other efforts to be courteous, they wouldn’t have had any problems with us. Instead, they bitched and complained, and nobody like them.

I think that if Israel, and Israel’s supporters, made the effort to be ‘courteous’ to the international community (i.e. tone down the arrogance and abide by ALL relevant U.N. resolutions) instead of just labelling people as anti-semites and/or terrorists, then their lives would be easier, because then they’d have only the anti-semites to deal with (admittedly still a major problem, but a smaller one), rather than the anti-semites as well as the people they’ve pissed off.

That was pretty far off the topic of the thread, but like I said, I don’t read or post here often, so I might as well make the most of it when I do.

Bullmoose:

A simple method of distinguishing would be someone who has an informed, more tempered criticism of Israel, versus someone who has baseless and wild accusations that are clearly fueled by passion. See the following examples:

  1. Non-Anti-Semetic Criticism of Israel: The Israeli government made a mistake in allowing settlers to build homesteads on lands that were captured in armed conflicts with the Arab states. This would have made a policy of returning said lands to Palestinians much easier.

  2. Anti-Semetic Criticism of Israel: The Israeli government isn’t shit. They are just a bunch of rapists and imperialists who bully innocents to promote their own desires. Fuck them. They wouldn’t be a thing if it wasn’t for the United States giving them guns and bombs and planes.

If many accusations of anti-Semitism arise in this thread (I have made such claims myself) it is because there is unfortunately too much of the latter. [/quote]

eic, you put that very well indeed.