More like 2=1 if you look at it seriously. The most a track athelete could really conceivably win would be 4 maybe 5. You would have to do the 100, 200, 4x100 4x400 and then either the 400(pushign it) or long jump/triple jump but then we are talking about totally different movements.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
austin_bicep wrote:
I hate the attitude “if someones great they must be enhanced,” or “if he’s better than me he must be juicing.” Fuck that, he’s clean until proven otherwise.
I agree, saying that someone is probably juicing because they are good is pretty stupid. Like if I assumed someone�??s IQ was low for making a conclusion based on no evidence.[/quote]
That argument is rather prevalent around here. There are many on these boards that claim every track & field star, every pro football player, and just about everybody else making a living with their athleticism is juicing. Of course, you can never prove that someone is clean, so despite all the logic you throw at them they continue to think everyone juices.
Then, to make it even better, they throw in the NTTAWT. There’s nothing wrong with intelligent steroid discussion, but I swear half of this board has been brain-washed by the pro-steroid crowd.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
SkankerMD wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
I bet the guys from the steroid thread would love to see his various high tech stacks.
It’s a shame we’ll probably never know the details.
What stacks? Are you saying that because he has a chance at 8 gold medals, he has to be on the juice?
DO you have anything other than your own pathetic opinion with which to back this up?
If you really think he’s on something, get good at swimming, join the Wolverines, then you’ll find out how much dedication and hard work they put in and how little of it depends on some “secret stack”
Ahm.
dedication? check!
hard work? check!
secret stack? …check…
even as little as 1% can be huge in pro sports. Top champs of today use drugs you won’t find in their system. Some drugs like EPO and similar substances give such an enormous boost that endurance based sports are pretty much dependant on it nowadays.
[/quote]
yea EPO would be detected, or at least the residual results of it. . . Phelps is tested every single day afer every race, probably doesn’t even have to use the toilet they keep collecting so much of his pee so frequently.
I cant speak on swimming cause I dont know it. As far as track and field goes if there is someone not doping I would be surprised. That being said I still feel you need to give someone the benefit of the doubt because there is always gonna be someone out there that follows the rules and gets by.
I m just saying that in swimming you could be that dominant without juice. Track and Field you simply couldnt do it.
[quote]bostonbigticket wrote:
More like 2=1 if you look at it seriously. The most a track athelete could really conceivably win would be 4 maybe 5. You would have to do the 100, 200, 4x100 4x400 and then either the 400(pushign it) or long jump/triple jump but then we are talking about totally different movements.[/quote]
During my time in school there was only one student I can remember who pursued swimming seriously and he made it to the Olympics. I think he came tenth in Athens in one of the events that Phelps won. He was a decent athlete, but nothing special and not the most talented athlete in the school.
By contrast I don’t think anyone from my entire state has made the Australian Olympic team for athletics in recent times, and Australia sucks major balls at athletics.
Very few people in the world train for swimming from a young enough age to succeed, so the overall standard is much lower than for football, track, etc.
BTW I was only joking with the 5 swimming medals = 1 track medal comment.
[quote]SkankerMD wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
SkankerMD wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
I bet the guys from the steroid thread would love to see his various high tech stacks.
It’s a shame we’ll probably never know the details.
What stacks? Are you saying that because he has a chance at 8 gold medals, he has to be on the juice?
DO you have anything other than your own pathetic opinion with which to back this up?
If you really think he’s on something, get good at swimming, join the Wolverines, then you’ll find out how much dedication and hard work they put in and how little of it depends on some “secret stack”
Ahm.
dedication? check!
hard work? check!
secret stack? …check…
even as little as 1% can be huge in pro sports. Top champs of today use drugs you won’t find in their system. Some drugs like EPO and similar substances give such an enormous boost that endurance based sports are pretty much dependant on it nowadays.
yea EPO would be detected, or at least the residual results of it. . . Phelps is tested every single day afer every race, probably doesn’t even have to use the toilet they keep collecting so much of his pee so frequently.
[/quote]
How did Marion Jones pass every single drug test she ever had? She was even using during the Sydney Olympics when she was the dominant athlete, yet she never tested positive for anything.
For the record I am willing to give Phelps the benefit of the doubt, but it’s very naive to think that it wouldn’t be possible for him to get away with cheating.
His mom is the principal of a middle school, I think, and she is always using her son as an example…I don’t think she would be too pleased if she knew her son was using something…and they are really close as well…do you really think his own mom would approve, and if it got out that he WAS using something, could you imagine?
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
MULTI-millionaire?
Mufasa[/quote]
He makes an estimated $5 million a year from endorsement deals. Has been for a while now.
The secret Michael Phelps stack revealed!
[quote]tedro wrote:
Then, to make it even better, they throw in the NTTAWT. There’s nothing wrong with intelligent steroid discussion, but I swear half of this board has been brain-washed by the pro-steroid crowd.[/quote]
This is worth a discussion all in itself, I think. I didn’t realize it until you said something, but people here have just as much trouble thinking for themselves as regular people do when they listen to the media when it comes to steroids.
[quote]bostonbigticket wrote:
I cant speak on swimming cause I dont know it. . .
I m just saying that in swimming you could be that dominant without juice. Track and Field you simply couldnt do it.[/quote]
As evidenced by my thread in the Steroid section (http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=2408157), I am more interested in the science behind doping than finger-pointing and who’s on what. I don’t care one way or the other whether or not the athletes are “on” as far as judging them or their athletic achievements goes.
At any rate, I found this discrepancy in your post somewhat amusing . . .
[quote]Regular Gonzalez wrote:
5 swimming medals = 1 track medal[/quote]
This is a good point, but using just track medal is stupid. Some medals should be worth much more-like a point system-. Obviously swimming has way too many events, in fact their thinking of eliminating some next olympics. The competetion also is not that great, not much funding for swimming in most countries. Also the fact that world records are being broken each year in both women and men, in every event. More competetion is coming but right now its still not that great.
I mean look at fighting sports, basketball, or any other tournament sport. They only get one medal for going through several games. Then look at a decathlate, which imo is the test of greatest ‘athlete’, does 10 grueling events and gets one medal.
China and many other countries are going to be gimped from medals, since all America has to do is win swimming events which give so many medals. China has been sweeping events in other sports like weightlifting but you don’t hear about that, and that is something that has never been done. Using the swimming medal idea, weightlifters should get medals for each lift, then throw in some squat variations, then clean+press, combine that with a relay of some sort ext.
Phelps is a great swimmer, but the title "Greatest Athlete ever’ is bullshit.
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
tedro wrote:
Then, to make it even better, they throw in the NTTAWT. There’s nothing wrong with intelligent steroid discussion, but I swear half of this board has been brain-washed by the pro-steroid crowd.
This is worth a discussion all in itself, I think. I didn’t realize it until you said something, but people here have just as much trouble thinking for themselves as regular people do when they listen to the media when it comes to steroids.[/quote]
Exactly.
Obviously the MSM doesn’t really report on steroids accurately, and the general population just buys everything they hear. Sadly, the very opposite thing happens here. What we are left with is two extremes, neither willing to acknowledge ALL the facts and evidence, anectodal and scientific.
Anyways, I would hate to hijack this thread and take away from Phelps’ accomplishments. This should go somewhere else.
[quote]hedo wrote:
The secret Michael Phelps stack revealed![/quote]
Man… that’s pretty depressing. I struggle to put on mass even with 5000 calories, and I’ve got almost an identical frame to Phelps, and you look at the guy, he is muscular and defined, but he still only weighs about 200 pounds, which, at 6’4, isn’t all that much(taken outside the context of his sport), and yet, given his absurd amount of energy output, he needs 12,000 calories just to sustain.
in short. for fuck’s sake.
I’m going to go eat some hamburgers.
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
MULTI-millionaire?
Mufasa[/quote]
He didn’t do all of those commercials for free.
But do think that whatever he’s made since 2004 will be dwarfed by what he will make if he can pocket 3 more gold medals.
I do agree that the talent pool is smaller for swimming than some sports, but I don�??t think it�??s as small as some people are making out.
In my high school swimming was as big a sport as track (and county for that matter). Not to mention you have some countries like Australia whose national past time is swimming. Just because you didn�??t grow up around it, doesn�??t mean there aren�??t people doing it.
Besides, just because the talent pool is smaller doesn�??t mean that he can�??t be the greatest athlete ever, it just makes it harder to compare because you have to question his competition.
In addition if you are arguing small talent pools in terms of Olympic events, swimming shouldn�??t even be in the equation. I would think swimming is one of the larger internationally practiced sports in the Olympics.
I do agree that its crap that things like team metals get treated as one win though.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
SkankerMD wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
I bet the guys from the steroid thread would love to see his various high tech stacks.
It’s a shame we’ll probably never know the details.
What stacks? Are you saying that because he has a chance at 8 gold medals, he has to be on the juice?
DO you have anything other than your own pathetic opinion with which to back this up?
If you really think he’s on something, get good at swimming, join the Wolverines, then you’ll find out how much dedication and hard work they put in and how little of it depends on some “secret stack”
Ahm.
dedication? check!
hard work? check!
secret stack? …check…
even as little as 1% can be huge in pro sports. Top champs of today use drugs you won’t find in their system. Some drugs like EPO and similar substances give such an enormous boost that endurance based sports are pretty much dependant on it nowadays.
[/quote]
Show proof of this “stack”, or shut the fuck up.
EPO is one of the main tests the ADA’s test for.
Like I said, bring some proof, or shut the fuck up.
[quote]lixy wrote:
What makes Phelps so special?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/olympics/2008/08/can_anyone_spoil_phelps_pool_p.html
I will also add that I think he is more likely to be on some state-of-the-art stack than not. Not that it takes anything away from his achievements in my eyes.[/quote]
What stack? You and the German fuck need to find somewhere else to fucking whine.
You think he’s cheating - and you want to drag his name down. Why else would you post such shit?
[quote]bostonbigticket wrote:
I cant speak on swimming cause I dont know it. As far as track and field goes if there is someone not doping I would be surprised. That being said I still feel you need to give someone the benefit of the doubt because there is always gonna be someone out there that follows the rules and gets by.
I m just saying that in swimming you could be that dominant without juice. Track and Field you simply couldnt do it.[/quote]
You need to stop comparing track and field to swimming. Other than having a starter, a finish line, and a timer - there is no comparison.
Phelps’ coach told Phelps’ mother that Mikey was a phenom, and could break every record in the book. The coach told Mikey’s mom that he had never, ever seen a swimmer with such a freakish genetic gift.
He told that to Phelps’ mother when Mikey was 11 years-old.
[quote]Malevolence wrote:
hedo wrote:
The secret Michael Phelps stack revealed!
Man… that’s pretty depressing. I struggle to put on mass even with 5000 calories, and I’ve got almost an identical frame to Phelps, and you look at the guy, he is muscular and defined, but he still only weighs about 200 pounds, which, at 6’4, isn’t all that much(taken outside the context of his sport), and yet, given his absurd amount of energy output, he needs 12,000 calories just to sustain.
in short. for fuck’s sake.
I’m going to go eat some hamburgers.[/quote]
Thats the top end, in the interview I think it mentioned only about 6k on average which is far from ridiculous with his height and the amount of hours he spends working out- 5-6 just in the pool.