Mendes/Gilbert Test Positive

Training Powerlifting
141

[quote]twiceborn wrote:
Hey DebraD,

Not everyone uses at a national level, but everyone who matters does. Getting popped all depends on “who you know” and what team you come from.

Let’s see, when I was at the USOTC one well known lifter was popped for having high T, so were three other guys. Some of these athletes were banned yetthe first was allowed to re-test because his daddy was a coach with some political pull. In all likelihood this lifter will take Mendes’s place on the team.

Another lifter almost had the weightlifting program kicked out of the OTC because he threw some cocaine parties. They didn’t catch him with a drug test, they caught him when someone walked in and he was doing blow off a toilet seat. Still, he was only sent home, not suspended from the sport. He and his sister had some pull, apparently.

Then there’s another Jr. World Team guy who failed an out of competition test and it was covered up. This guy was 17 and had full male pattern baldness. He also broke the superheavy US record in the clean and jerk.

There’s always talk up and down the grapevine, but I’ve personally seen it. Hell, I was working the fax machine when Apollo Ono and his teammates conspired to force another skater off the track at the Olympic Trials. You never heard about THAT either but things like this happen all the time. You only hear about the scapegoats.

USAW has it’s favorites, and if you fall into their little club you can get away with whatever you need to win. I think Mendes is the victim is a witch hunt. He was the most talented lifter we had, but his daddy wasn’t a coach.
[/quote]

LOL so you are going to outright accuse other lifters of being dirty. Nice. Why don’t you just name names? And how about your name while you’re at it.

142

[quote]Legalsteel wrote:
“i bet the nazi’s said something like ‘but everyone is doing it so it must be okay’. when it came to shooting jews and stuff like that.”
Godwin’s law fulfilled. Thread over.[/quote]

Were it so easy . . .

143

[quote]debraD wrote:

[quote]twiceborn wrote:
Hey DebraD,

Not everyone uses at a national level, but everyone who matters does. Getting popped all depends on “who you know” and what team you come from.

Let’s see, when I was at the USOTC one well known lifter was popped for having high T, so were three other guys. Some of these athletes were banned yetthe first was allowed to re-test because his daddy was a coach with some political pull. In all likelihood this lifter will take Mendes’s place on the team.

Another lifter almost had the weightlifting program kicked out of the OTC because he threw some cocaine parties. They didn’t catch him with a drug test, they caught him when someone walked in and he was doing blow off a toilet seat. Still, he was only sent home, not suspended from the sport. He and his sister had some pull, apparently.

Then there’s another Jr. World Team guy who failed an out of competition test and it was covered up. This guy was 17 and had full male pattern baldness. He also broke the superheavy US record in the clean and jerk.

There’s always talk up and down the grapevine, but I’ve personally seen it. Hell, I was working the fax machine when Apollo Ono and his teammates conspired to force another skater off the track at the Olympic Trials. You never heard about THAT either but things like this happen all the time. You only hear about the scapegoats.

USAW has it’s favorites, and if you fall into their little club you can get away with whatever you need to win. I think Mendes is the victim is a witch hunt. He was the most talented lifter we had, but his daddy wasn’t a coach.
[/quote]

LOL so you are going to outright accuse other lifters of being dirty. Nice. Why don’t you just name names? And how about your name while you’re at it.

[/quote]

I’ve kinda been creeping this thread for like the last hour and a half, and there were specific names in his post originally, but they have mysteriously been edited out . . .

144

[quote]TheJonty wrote:

I’ve kinda been creeping this thread for like the last hour and a half, and there were specific names in his post originally, but they have mysteriously been edited out . . . [/quote]

You don’t say! Well that’s enough of this discussion for me then. I should have stopped back when I said I was going to, lol.

145

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
I am honestly appalled that someone with such a crude, backwards, childish and hamfisted grasp on morals can be a college professor.

Then again, it IS New Zealand.[/quote]

please…

tell me what you think my views on morals is. i’m just dying to assess your reading comprehension…

146

Dear everyone in this thread,

Please stop feeding the troll. If we all pull together and stop posting, the thread will eventually fall to the bottom of the page and into the ether.
And if you continue to post, then you are no better than a Nazi rapist.

Yours in triple extension,
Bcingu

147

[quote]bcingu wrote:
Dear everyone in this thread,

Please stop feeding the troll. If we all pull together and stop posting, the thread will eventually fall to the bottom of the page and into the ether.
And if you continue to post, then you are no better than a Nazi rapist.

Yours in triple extension,
Bcingu[/quote]
lolololol

yours in triple extension…

that got me going man. i know i shouldn’t respond but that was just 2 good. and i’m 2 drunk not to drunk not to respond

148

Another interesting read: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6939/8

Jonty I sent you a PM, please let me know if it went through.

149

[quote]PB Andy wrote:

[quote]bcingu wrote:
Dear everyone in this thread,

Please stop feeding the troll. If we all pull together and stop posting, the thread will eventually fall to the bottom of the page and into the ether.
And if you continue to post, then you are no better than a Nazi rapist.

Yours in triple extension,
Bcingu[/quote]
lolololol

yours in triple extension…

that got me going man. i know i shouldn’t respond but that was just 2 good. and i’m 2 drunk not to drunk not to respond[/quote]

Maybe we should make a rule that no more sober posts are allowed? Which I guess means I’m out (never touched drugs and I’ve been off alcohol for nearly a year now).

150

[quote]GqArtguy wrote:
Another interesting read: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6939/8

Jonty I sent you a PM, please let me know if it went through.[/quote]

For anybody else clicking that link, pretty sure the article you were trying to link to (Current anti-doping policy: a critical appraisal) is in March 2007. When I clicked on it I was brought to the archives and not the article specifically. Haven’t had time to read it yet though.

Also, didn’t get your PM, sent you one though. Can you receive them?

151

[quote]TheJonty wrote:

[quote]GqArtguy wrote:
Another interesting read: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6939/8

Jonty I sent you a PM, please let me know if it went through.[/quote]

For anybody else clicking that link, pretty sure the article you were trying to link to (Current anti-doping policy: a critical appraisal) is in March 2007. When I clicked on it I was brought to the archives and not the article specifically. Haven’t had time to read it yet though.

Also, didn’t get your PM, sent you one though. Can you receive them?[/quote]

Yes I can receive them. Cant send them though for some reason. Anyway, Jonty is right about the article. I think this link might work: Current anti-doping policy: a critical appraisal | BMC Medical Ethics | Full Text

152

[quote]GqArtguy wrote:
Yes I can receive them. Cant send them though for some reason. Anyway, Jonty is right about the article. I think this link might work: Current anti-doping policy: a critical appraisal | BMC Medical Ethics | Full Text

[/quote]

Going to try real hard to make this my last post in this thread, and I wouldn’t do it at all but I think that article is a very interesting read and I strongly recommend it for anyone who ever posted in this thread or even considered posting in this thread. It’s not necessarily a quick or easy read (looks like it was written by three doctors) but I’d say it’s worth your time.

153

[quote]alexus wrote:
you:

cheating and corruption has been going on since ancient times. It is clearly a part of our DNA in all areas of life. To fold your arms and sulk about it just seems completely pointless to me.

do you feel similarly about other things that have been going on ‘since ancient times’?

things like genocide and rape? [/quote]

Hi Alexus, it seems you are just introducing shocking topics for the sake of shocking topics now. How you make a link between cheating in a game and forcing someone to have sex with you, or murdering massive amounts of people, I am not sure - but if you class these acts as similar, you should probably have a deep and honest internal assessment of what it means to be human.

Fine, I take your point, but it is not strong enough for me to feel that I should take a stronger view on cheating. Comparing them to themes such as rape is not going to change my mind!

[quote]alexus wrote: here is a question for you:

is it morally acceptable to cheat if one can get away with it?

this is a question that Plato asks us… it is how he introduces the issue of morality - he ties it in with getting away with the consequence of cheating. the idea here seems to be that cheating others is something that people feel is wrong insofar as they have a sense of morality at all. of course some people lack a moral sense. we have a name for them…

is the idea that one isn’t really cheating if everyone is doing it? then the idea is simply that everyone is doing it. do people really believe that? that there isn’t anybody who doesn’t use illegal drugs in international level weightlifting. for reals?
[/quote]

In my opinion, framing the 21 century through Platonic questions won’t get you very far. You seem almost transfixed on this idea that morality can be gauged through ones willingness to cheat. While I can see the logic in that, I just believe morality is ultimately a far more complicated issue.

I mean yes, if someone commits rape, the immorality (to put it mildly) is clear. But when someone cheats in a sport, the level of immorality is debatable. I think your rhetorical device of comparing cheating to things like rape is both misguided and something of a disrespectful throwing around of ideas to suit your response.

154

I’m surprised you even responded.

155

[quote]TheJonty wrote:

[quote]GqArtguy wrote:
Yes I can receive them. Cant send them though for some reason. Anyway, Jonty is right about the article. I think this link might work: Current anti-doping policy: a critical appraisal | BMC Medical Ethics | Full Text

[/quote]

Going to try real hard to make this my last post in this thread, and I wouldn’t do it at all but I think that article is a very interesting read and I strongly recommend it for anyone who ever posted in this thread or even considered posting in this thread. It’s not necessarily a quick or easy read (looks like it was written by three doctors) but I’d say it’s worth your time.[/quote]

I just putting this out there, the people who wrote this are working in the medical profession and from this they would stand to gain. So just read it with a grain of salt.

156

[quote]Swolegasm wrote:

[quote]TheJonty wrote:

[quote]GqArtguy wrote:
Yes I can receive them. Cant send them though for some reason. Anyway, Jonty is right about the article. I think this link might work: Current anti-doping policy: a critical appraisal | BMC Medical Ethics | Full Text

[/quote]

Going to try real hard to make this my last post in this thread, and I wouldn’t do it at all but I think that article is a very interesting read and I strongly recommend it for anyone who ever posted in this thread or even considered posting in this thread. It’s not necessarily a quick or easy read (looks like it was written by three doctors) but I’d say it’s worth your time.[/quote]

I just putting this out there, the people who wrote this are working in the medical profession and from this they would stand to gain. So just read it with a grain of salt. [/quote]

Can you point out any suspicious parts? To me it was an interesting report. It wasn’t particularly slanted in favour of the medical profession in my opinion. In fact, it suggested that money is being wasted on fighting the anti-doping war. That there are far greater drug problems generally in the population at large. That introducing much needed ethical guidelines for doctors (which weigh up ALL of the factors involved, not just the popular media messages) and agreeing on realistic standards could be more effective. etc, etc. You know PROGRESSION

And where exactly do you go for medical advice? The shoemaker?

157

Universally regulated doping. Interesting. I do see the argument that some persons in the medical field have a substantial potential pecuniary gain from regulated doping. And, it is not uncommon for a a person to encourage the opinions and activities that would increase the likelihood of something in his or her own best interest.

That being said, pecuniary gain is not wrong or evil per se: Most folks do it openly and frequently; further, most folks encourage other folks to do it too.

Rather the issue, IMHO, with universally regulated doping is that it would increase the cost of competing in the sport. Whereas, the current costs include travel, coaches, nutrition, equipment already put competition beyond the reach of many individuals and communities the addition universally regulated doping increases the costs by at least the cost of the doping technique itself and medical monitoring. These costs cannot be considered while ignoring that competition generates little or no income for the participants. Ultimately, I believe it would hurt the sport by making it cost prohibitive.

That matter aside, I am curios as how others feel as to whether or not doping under the present rules is more or less fraud per se. Any thoughts?

158

There is a strong argument against doping, especially considering the conduct and treatment of retired athletes in former and current bloc countries.

159

Anyway, it’s not the drugs that separates the US from Bulgaria, China, Russia, Belarus, etc in producing elite lifters, it is the fact such potential athletes could go on to professional sports here. In those countries, lifting is a profession and for some a quite lucrative one.

160

Money: always the answer, rarely the solution.
Does Bulgaria have that many people? Hard to imagine but the proof is in the pudding.
The notion that all the potential U.S. weightlifting talent is wrapped up in professional sports seems odd because not all weightlifters are great at other sports simply by virtue of being great weightlifters — the inverse would also seem to be credible: why would a baseball stAr or a professional quaterback be expected to excel at weightlifting by virtue of his or her competency in a different sport.
Is it fair to believe that there is another fundamental reason for the disparity? Perhaps, and only by anecdote, I tend to believe that the U.S. does not foster an environment where potential weightlifting athletes receive sufficient encouragement or incentive to pursue weightlifting singlemindedly, in near complete exclusion to other past times or events.