[quote]orion wrote:
a bunch of sensationalistic crap[/quote]
These things happen everywhere. They are not the norm.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
a bunch of sensationalistic crap
These things happen everywhere. They are not the norm.[/quote]
read the article- apparently they are.
[quote]orion wrote:
The Mage wrote:
lixy wrote:
Again with trying to amalgamate Al-Qaeda with the Palestinian resistance? Is that the best you can do?
Resistance? They are resistance fighters? Not terrorists but resistance fighters?
Seriously take a look at this website. It is of a former Palestinian terrorist.
“Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”
“The Arab refugees are being used as pawns’ to create a terror breeding ground, as a form of aggression against Israel.”
“The Arab refugee problem was caused by Arab aggression and not Israel. Why should Israel be responsible for their fate?”
Israel shaken by troops’ tales of brutality against Palestinians
A psychologist blames assaults on civilians in the 1990s on soldiers’ bad training, boredom and poor supervision
In the words of one soldier: ‘The truth? When there is chaos, I like it. That’s when I enjoy it. It’s like a drug. If I don’t go into Rafah, and if there isn’t some kind of riot once in some weeks, I go nuts.’
Another explained: ‘The most important thing is that it removes the burden of the law from you. You feel that you are the law. You are the law. You are the one who decides… As though from the moment you leave the place that is called Eretz Yisrael [the Land of Israel] and go through the Erez checkpoint into the Gaza Strip, you are the law. You are God.’
The soldiers described dozens of incidents of extreme violence. One recalled an incident when a Palestinian was shot for no reason and left on the street. ‘We were in a weapons carrier when this guy, around 25, passed by in the street and, just like that, for no reason - he didn’t throw a stone, did nothing - bang, a bullet in the stomach, he shot him in the stomach and the guy is dying on the pavement and we keep going, apathetic. No one gave him a second look,’ he said.
he soldiers developed a mentality in which they would use physical violence to deter Palestinians from abusing them. One described beating women. ‘With women I have no problem. With women, one threw a clog at me and I kicked her here [pointing to the crotch], I broke everything there. She can’t have children. Next time she won’t throw clogs at me. When one of them [a woman] spat at me, I gave her the rifle butt in the face. She doesn’t have what to spit with any more.’
Yishai-Karin found that the soldiers were exposed to violence against Palestinians from as early as their first weeks of basic training. On one occasion, the soldiers were escorting some arrested Palestinians. The arrested men were made to sit on the floor of the bus. They had been taken from their beds and were barely clothed, even though the temperature was below zero. The new recruits trampled on the Palestinians and then proceeded to beat them for the whole of the journey. They opened the bus windows and poured water on the arrested men.
'He grabbed the boy. I am a degenerate if I am not telling you the truth. He broke his hand here at the wrist, broke his leg here. And started to stomp on his stomach, three times, and left. We are all there, jaws dropping, looking at him in shock…
'The next day I go out with him on another patrol, and the soldiers are already starting to do the same thing."
That is how you create freedom fighters.
Um, terrorists, hating you for your freedom.
[/quote]
And they do this to each other too. Rememeber the Hamas/Fatah thing…Draging out store owners into the street shooting them in cold blood and many such incidents like such as? What does that create, peace?
Don’t forget, they hate you too.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
And they do this to each other too. Rememeber the Hamas/Fatah thing…Draging out store owners into the street shooting them in cold blood and many such incidents like such as? What does that create, peace?
Don’t forget, they hate you too.[/quote]
Frankly, me being Austrian they probably like me a lot.
Maybe for the wrong reasons and it is kind of embarrassing to be complimented for the holocaust, but I doubt that there is much hatred there.
[quote]orion wrote:
pat36 wrote:
And they do this to each other too. Rememeber the Hamas/Fatah thing…Draging out store owners into the street shooting them in cold blood and many such incidents like such as? What does that create, peace?
Don’t forget, they hate you too.
Frankly, me being Austrian they probably like me a lot.
Maybe for the wrong reasons and it is kind of embarrassing to be complimented for the holocaust, but I doubt that there is much hatred there.
[/quote]
Wow! did you really just say that?
What kind of person are you?
I feel like a need a shower after that. Did you just claim the Holocaust?
[quote]The Mage wrote:
lixy wrote:
Whoever said that would indeed be a fool.
I have one question for you: Was pre-2003 Iraq the terrorist breeding ground that it is today?
The Mage wrote:
Yes.
lixy wrote:
That has the merit of being clear. Somehow, I can’t remember hearing about daily car bombs rocking Iraqi markets. Also, I can’t seem to recall any of those executions lamb-style prior to the invasion.
Are you even aware of what you are saying? Al-Qaeda wasn’t attacking until Saddam was gone. Interesting.
Why don’t they blow up car bombs outside Bin-Ladens tent? I assume you can figure that one out.
Besides, with all the genocide going on there, committed by Saddam, there was no need for car bombs. You didn’t blow people up, the military just picked them up, tortured them, raped the wives and children, and then lined them up for mass killings.
[/quote]
But its done to Iraqis, by Iraqis, and it’s their country. So, following Lixy’s logic, that makes it okay.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
orion wrote:
pat36 wrote:
And they do this to each other too. Rememeber the Hamas/Fatah thing…Draging out store owners into the street shooting them in cold blood and many such incidents like such as? What does that create, peace?
Don’t forget, they hate you too.
Frankly, me being Austrian they probably like me a lot.
Maybe for the wrong reasons and it is kind of embarrassing to be complimented for the holocaust, but I doubt that there is much hatred there.
Wow! did you really just say that?
What kind of person are you?
I feel like a need a shower after that. Did you just claim the Holocaust?[/quote]
LOL! If Hitler had won, Orion would have been the Gauleiter of Cincinnati by now. (j/k)
[quote]pat36 wrote:
orion wrote:
pat36 wrote:
And they do this to each other too. Rememeber the Hamas/Fatah thing…Draging out store owners into the street shooting them in cold blood and many such incidents like such as? What does that create, peace?
Don’t forget, they hate you too.
Frankly, me being Austrian they probably like me a lot.
Maybe for the wrong reasons and it is kind of embarrassing to be complimented for the holocaust, but I doubt that there is much hatred there.
Wow! did you really just say that?
What kind of person are you?
I feel like a need a shower after that. Did you just claim the Holocaust?[/quote]
Re-read my post.
Feel free to move your lips if it helps you understand written language better.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
The Mage wrote:
lixy wrote:
Whoever said that would indeed be a fool.
I have one question for you: Was pre-2003 Iraq the terrorist breeding ground that it is today?
The Mage wrote:
Yes.
lixy wrote:
That has the merit of being clear. Somehow, I can’t remember hearing about daily car bombs rocking Iraqi markets. Also, I can’t seem to recall any of those executions lamb-style prior to the invasion.
Are you even aware of what you are saying? Al-Qaeda wasn’t attacking until Saddam was gone. Interesting.
Why don’t they blow up car bombs outside Bin-Ladens tent? I assume you can figure that one out.
Besides, with all the genocide going on there, committed by Saddam, there was no need for car bombs. You didn’t blow people up, the military just picked them up, tortured them, raped the wives and children, and then lined them up for mass killings.
But its done to Iraqis, by Iraqis, and it’s their country. So, following Lixy’s logic, that makes it okay.
[/quote]
No, it makes it none of your business.
[quote]orion wrote:
pat36 wrote:
orion wrote:
pat36 wrote:
And they do this to each other too. Rememeber the Hamas/Fatah thing…Draging out store owners into the street shooting them in cold blood and many such incidents like such as? What does that create, peace?
Don’t forget, they hate you too.
Frankly, me being Austrian they probably like me a lot.
Maybe for the wrong reasons and it is kind of embarrassing to be complimented for the holocaust, but I doubt that there is much hatred there.
Wow! did you really just say that?
What kind of person are you?
I feel like a need a shower after that. Did you just claim the Holocaust?
Re-read my post.
Feel free to move your lips if it helps you understand written language better.
[/quote]
Yup, still says asshole to me.
The holocaust was a german thing and your claiming it as your own. Yes, I know hitler was austrian and I know you had a concentration camp or two in austria that doesn’t make austria culpable, yet, you say it like it was your idea.
You said you’d be complimented by terrorists for the holocaust, it wasn’t even yours, yet you claimed it, but said it was embarassing. Tripping in front of a pretty girl is embarasing, the holocaust was an indiscribable abomination.
Besides that, I am still pretty sure they hate your guts and want to kill you. You still more like us then you are like them.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
orion wrote:
pat36 wrote:
orion wrote:
pat36 wrote:
And they do this to each other too. Rememeber the Hamas/Fatah thing…Draging out store owners into the street shooting them in cold blood and many such incidents like such as? What does that create, peace?
Don’t forget, they hate you too.
Frankly, me being Austrian they probably like me a lot.
Maybe for the wrong reasons and it is kind of embarrassing to be complimented for the holocaust, but I doubt that there is much hatred there.
Wow! did you really just say that?
What kind of person are you?
I feel like a need a shower after that. Did you just claim the Holocaust?
Re-read my post.
Feel free to move your lips if it helps you understand written language better.
Yup, still says asshole to me.
The holocaust was a german thing and your claiming it as your own. Yes, I know hitler was austrian and I know you had a concentration camp or two in austria that doesn’t make austria culpable, yet, you say it like it was your idea.
You said you’d be complimented by terrorists for the holocaust, it wasn’t even yours, yet you claimed it, but said it was embarassing. Tripping in front of a pretty girl is embarasing, the holocaust was an indiscribable abomination.
Besides that, I am still pretty sure they hate your guts and want to kill you. You still more like us then you are like them.[/quote]
If you are Austrian and travel in the ME they congratulate you for the Holocaust.
Make of that whatever you want.
Paranoid freak.
There are common intellectual roots for fascism and radical Islam:
http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2007_09_09-2007_09_15.shtml#1189564059
[i]
Ilya Somin , September 11, 2007 at 10:27pm Trackbacks
Common Intellectual Roots of Fascism and Radical Islamism:
For a more systematic look at the common intellectual roots of European fascism and radical islamism, discussed in David Bernstein’s recent post, check out Ian Buruma and Avishai Margalit’s book Occidentalism: The West through the Eyes of its Enemies ( http://www.amazon.com/Occidentalism-West-Eyes-Its-Enemies/dp/1594200084 ). As the authors point out, both fascism and radical Islamism were heavily influenced by the nineteenth century European romantic nationalist reaction against liberalism and free markets. The romantic nationalists claimed that liberal society was overly materialistic, neglected important group ties, and lacked spiritual values. Obviously, the fascists were direct intellectual descendants of the romantic nationalists, whose ideology they took to new extremes. In the Arab Middle East, the intellectual connection emerged as a result of the penetration of European nationalist ideas beginning with the early twentieth century.
In the 1930s, as historian Bernard Lewis explains here ( Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos ), Nazi Germany made a “concerted effort” to export its ideology to the Arab world directly; they were in large part successful. Many of the Nazi ideas were taken up by the early radical Islamists at that time, as German scholar Matthias Kuntzel discusses here ( http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/014/080ruyhg.asp ).
I would add that the modern radical Islamist version of anti-Semitism also has its roots in European nationalist and fascist thought. This is most clear in its embrace of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion ( The Protocols of the Elders of Zion - Wikipedia ), a forgery created by czarist Russian secret police and first popularized by right-wing Russian nationalists. As the NY Times puts it ( The Anti-Semitic Hoax That Refuses to Die - The New York Times ), the Protocols have become a “canonical text” for radical Islamists. More generally, the entire idea that the Jews are a powerful, insidious cabal dominating capitalist economic system is rooted in European nationalist and fascist ideology and is very different from traditional pre-20th century Muslim anti-Semitism (which viewed Jews more as objects of contempt than fear). There are some important differences between fascist and radical Islamist ideology. Perhaps the most important is that the latter is an internationalist ideology that cuts across different racial and ethnic groups, while the former tries to exalt a particular nation-state. But they also have numerous commonalities, including strikingly similar reasons for their hatred of liberalism, democracy, the free market, and Jews.
UPDATE: To avoid confusion, I should emphasize that this post is not a defense of the term “Islamofascist.” It’s a post on the intellectual roots of radical Islamism, many of which are fascist in origin. For what it’s worth, I think the term is on balance counterproductive. It tends to alienate liberal Muslims (a key constituency the US must appeal to), while largely failing in the original objective of rallying Western left-wing support for the War on Terror, as David noted in his post. At the same time, the term is descriptively accurate as a characterization of the ideology of Al Qaeda and other similar groups. That ideology does indeed combine a reactionary strain of Islam with major elements of European fascism. Sometimes, the use of a word is both accurate and tactically unwise.[/i]
[quote]orion wrote:
If you are Austrian and travel in the ME they congratulate you for the Holocaust.
Make of that whatever you want.
Paranoid freak.
[/quote]
Which HH’s point of burning the nest a good idea.
Make of that whatever you want.
[quote]orion wrote:
If you are Austrian and travel in the ME they congratulate you for the Holocaust. [/quote]
Are you speaking from personal experience? Tell us which are these countries in the ME where the population sees the Holocaust in positive terms.
[quote]lixy wrote:
orion wrote:
If you are Austrian and travel in the ME they congratulate you for the Holocaust.
Are you speaking from personal experience? Tell us which are these countries in the ME where the population sees the Holocaust in positive terms.[/quote]
Iran.
[quote]lixy wrote:
orion wrote:
If you are Austrian and travel in the ME they congratulate you for the Holocaust.
Are you speaking from personal experience? Tell us which are these countries in the ME where the population sees the Holocaust in positive terms.[/quote]
Saudi Arabia
Egypt
Iran
Syria
Lebanon
Turkey
Iraq
Iran
Oman
Qatar
United Arab Emirates
Jordan
Yemen
That about sums it up. Throw in some North African countries for safe measure too.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
orion wrote:
A psychologist blames assaults on civilians in the 1990s on soldiers’ bad training, boredom and poor supervision
In the words of one soldier: ‘The truth? When there is chaos, I like it. That’s when I enjoy it. It’s like a drug. If I don’t go into Rafah, and if there isn’t some kind of riot once in some weeks, I go nuts.’
Another explained: ‘The most important thing is that it removes the burden of the law from you. You feel that you are the law. You are the law. You are the one who decides… As though from the moment you leave the place that is called Eretz Yisrael [the Land of Israel] and go through the Erez checkpoint into the Gaza Strip, you are the law. You are God.’
The soldiers described dozens of incidents of extreme violence. One recalled an incident when a Palestinian was shot for no reason and left on the street. ‘We were in a weapons carrier when this guy, around 25, passed by in the street and, just like that, for no reason - he didn’t throw a stone, did nothing - bang, a bullet in the stomach, he shot him in the stomach and the guy is dying on the pavement and we keep going, apathetic. No one gave him a second look,’ he said.
he soldiers developed a mentality in which they would use physical violence to deter Palestinians from abusing them. One described beating women. ‘With women I have no problem. With women, one threw a clog at me and I kicked her here [pointing to the crotch], I broke everything there. She can’t have children. Next time she won’t throw clogs at me. When one of them [a woman] spat at me, I gave her the rifle butt in the face. She doesn’t have what to spit with any more.’
Yishai-Karin found that the soldiers were exposed to violence against Palestinians from as early as their first weeks of basic training. On one occasion, the soldiers were escorting some arrested Palestinians. The arrested men were made to sit on the floor of the bus. They had been taken from their beds and were barely clothed, even though the temperature was below zero. The new recruits trampled on the Palestinians and then proceeded to beat them for the whole of the journey. They opened the bus windows and poured water on the arrested men.
'He grabbed the boy. I am a degenerate if I am not telling you the truth. He broke his hand here at the wrist, broke his leg here. And started to stomp on his stomach, three times, and left. We are all there, jaws dropping, looking at him in shock…
'The next day I go out with him on another patrol, and the soldiers are already starting to do the same thing."
Wow! Sounds just like the Nazi’s, huh?[/quote]
Makes him feel at home…
[quote]pat36 wrote:
Wow! Sounds just like the Nazi’s, huh?
Makes him feel at home…[/quote]
Sure nationalism and socialism in one package, how could I possibly resist?
Don´t confuse me with a neo-con.
[quote]lixy wrote:
orion wrote:
If you are Austrian and travel in the ME they congratulate you for the Holocaust.
Are you speaking from personal experience? Tell us which are these countries in the ME where the population sees the Holocaust in positive terms.[/quote]
I only experienced this once.
My uncle worked in North Africa as a doctor and there it is quite common to be greeted by the Hitler salute if they know where you come from.
Mostly by black and Arab old men that have been part of the German Army.