[quote]burt128 wrote:
This is 1000% the right attitude.
[/quote]
I couldn’t agree more - there aren’t enough people out there that are willing to take it like a man - even though it sounds like you got the short end of the stick. As everyone else has said, stick with it - it seems like your character would be an asset to the sport.
So sorry your first meet experience was bad. I lift USAPL and really appreciate the strictness. I’ve been to meets sponsored by other feds where the lifts were so sloppy but passed anyway. To me there’s no badge of honor in that.
Anyone who chooses to do a meet should read the federation’s rulebook and ask seasoned lifters for guidance if possible.
You always need to read the rules, but the judges are not supposed to walk off and make a decision. The head judge is not even supposed to judge depth unless it is obviously high. the side judges are supposed to judge depth in the moment as they see it.
They have retarded rules, vibrams? Wtf is that going to do. I used to lift AAU, and they were sort of the same way, just not quiet as bad…
USAPL sucks IMO. Sub par equipment… Shitty judging (not passing lifts that should pass is just as bad as passing lifts that shouldn’t)…
I know personally the feds with sloppy judging in the past are cleaning it up… big time.
I was at an SPF meet awhile back, and this year I was told they were cleaning up their judging. They were 100% serious. Bar come up slightly tilted on bench, if you didn’t correct it and lockout evenly on time, then red light. Squats were judged strict as hell. If you didn’t hit depth then you weren’t getting it.
IPA has cleaned up their shit too. APF has never been too bad.
This is all my opinion, some of you may disagree, but its way better to go with a fed that doesn’t try and “preserve the integrity of the sport” by giving their lifters subpar equipment, bullshit rules, and music so gay you probably leave the meet having grown a vagina.
For 99% of people powerlifting is for fun, so why not go to a fed that is more fun. If you are in the 1% that loves the sport, wants to have fun, AND wants to be the best, you still want to have fun, and you want to use better equipment (better bars, benches, monolift, no retarded rules against underwear and vibrams)so that you can put up the most weight possible.
SPF and IPA are my favorites. APF is good too. I used to do AAU, IBP, and went to some USAPL meets, but I got tired of the bullshit of the AAU and USAPL and went with other feds, that coincidently have far stronger lifters on average.
[quote]BigSkwatta wrote:
a fed that doesn’t try and “preserve the integrity of the sport” by giving their lifters subpar equipment[/quote]
Curious what you’re referring to here . . .
[quote]BigSkwatta wrote:
You always need to read the rules, but the judges are not supposed to walk off and make a decision. The head judge is not even supposed to judge depth unless it is obviously high. the side judges are supposed to judge depth in the moment as they see it.
They have retarded rules, vibrams? Wtf is that going to do. I used to lift AAU, and they were sort of the same way, just not quiet as bad…
USAPL sucks IMO. Sub par equipment… Shitty judging (not passing lifts that should pass is just as bad as passing lifts that shouldn’t)…
I know personally the feds with sloppy judging in the past are cleaning it up… big time.
I was at an SPF meet awhile back, and this year I was told they were cleaning up their judging. They were 100% serious. Bar come up slightly tilted on bench, if you didn’t correct it and lockout evenly on time, then red light. Squats were judged strict as hell. If you didn’t hit depth then you weren’t getting it.
IPA has cleaned up their shit too. APF has never been too bad.
This is all my opinion, some of you may disagree, but its way better to go with a fed that doesn’t try and “preserve the integrity of the sport” by giving their lifters subpar equipment, bullshit rules, and music so gay you probably leave the meet having grown a vagina.
For 99% of people powerlifting is for fun, so why not go to a fed that is more fun. If you are in the 1% that loves the sport, wants to have fun, AND wants to be the best, you still want to have fun, and you want to use better equipment (better bars, benches, monolift, no retarded rules against underwear and vibrams)so that you can put up the most weight possible.
SPF and IPA are my favorites. APF is good too. I used to do AAU, IBP, and went to some USAPL meets, but I got tired of the bullshit of the AAU and USAPL and went with other feds, that coincidently have far stronger lifters on average.
[/quote]
First, meet equipment (bars, plates, etc.) varies even within a federation from meet to meet. Every USAPL meet I have ever been to has had exceptional equipment, and I would never call a monolift better. This can go back to many debates that I would rather not dig up, but you cannot call a monolift any better than squat jacks. That all comes down to a lifters preference on whether they think walking a weight out for squat is better or not. Second, every USAPL meet I have gone to has been conducted in the finest of fashion in some great locations, not places that look like my garage. Finally, ever USAPL meet I have ever been to the depth of a squat is rarely questioned, and that is how I prefer it. A lot of this crap comes down to who is running the meet and whether there are quality judges and a quality meet director. I know any meet that I have ever been to if the judges walked off to come to an agreement on something then the meet director would have punched them in the face over it and taken over themself.
it’s always been my understanding that the whole purpose of the lights was for the judges to judge themselves and whatever the outcome was is what the lift is…for the judges to walk off and have a private chat and come back and make a ruling is bullshit. I don’t care what fed we’re talking about here. It’s just not a good experience for someone who is competing for the first time and whoever those judges are, they should really question their own motivations for how they treated this guy. The sport isn’t going to grow with this kind of bullshit.
Nothing against USAPL or any other federation.
i agree! there is a fine line between being too strict for the sake of being able to proclaim that ‘we are the strictest, therefore the most legit organization’ most lifters lift for the enjoyment of it and nothing elseI have spent a lot of money with entry fees, membership cards, gas, hotel etc… just to bomb out with some judges who cant decide for themselves if a squat was deep enough. i’m not going for a state record, just to beat what i did last time under supposedly the same conditions.
Sorry to hear that you had such a crappy experience. I lift in the USAPL down in southern California, and the meets are always run very well. As I’m sure you now know, reading the rulebook does help if it is your first meet in a new fed.
I must admit that I struggle with the inconsistencies in this sport. On the one hand, it’s great that there’s a fed for everyone. On the other, the discrepancies make for a mockery at times and ensure an apples-to-apples comparison of numbers is impossible. For example, the feds can’t even agree what constitutes raw vs. geared. Some feds allow knee wraps and still call it raw even though wraps give a decided advantage.
And the rules for the lifts vary so much as well. The feds can’t even agree on what a legitimate squat is. Some require a clear dip below parallel. Others may say they do but pass lifts that are unquestionably not even parallel and don’t require locked knees to start and finish. Same with bench in terms of head position, butt position, feet position, locked elbows to start/finish, pause length. And some feds tolerate perfomance enhancement drugs use while others drug test at every meet to weed out that behavior.
Sorry for the rant. But it’s a beef of mine at times and the reason why this sport will never make it to serious international prominence.
[quote]kpsnap wrote:
I must admit that I struggle with the inconsistencies in this sport. On the one hand, it’s great that there’s a fed for everyone. On the other, the discrepancies make for a mockery at times and ensure an apples-to-apples comparison of numbers is impossible. For example, the feds can’t even agree what constitutes raw vs. geared. Some feds allow knee wraps and still call it raw even though wraps give a decided advantage.
And the rules for the lifts vary so much as well. The feds can’t even agree on what a legitimate squat is. Some require a clear dip below parallel. Others may say they do but pass lifts that are unquestionably not even parallel and don’t require locked knees to start and finish. Same with bench in terms of head position, butt position, feet position, locked elbows to start/finish, pause length. And some feds tolerate perfomance enhancement drugs use while others drug test at every meet to weed out that behavior.
Sorry for the rant. But it’s a beef of mine at times and the reason why this sport will never make it to serious international prominence.[/quote]
I agree with what you say. Also there is a problem with setting a “record” or being ranked #1. There are too many variations. If I were to tell someone I set a record in the squat I would have to already clarify weight class and age group as well as federation and category. So now you have to say "I set a record in the squat weighing 181 lb. for the USAPL open category while lifting raw with no knee wraps and drug tested. This gets complicated as you can see and you have to clarify so much. Then you have all the questions about what USAPL is vs. APF vs. insert one of the other 100 federations. It drives me nuts at times. I wish there was a unified category but there never will be because some want to squat over a grand and not hit parallel. Not to knock a 1000lb half squat, that would still break my back, but some make sacrifices in form and regulations to lift more weight. People will always bend the rules and often break them to excel at their sport. It is part of being so competitive.
You should not have been disqualified for that. In particular being your first meet the correct thing to do would have been to warn you and have you remove them.
It’s this kind of overly officious behavior that gives USAPL a bad name and it is completely uncalled for.
Additionally, it’s unacceptable for the guy doing equipment check to speak to you that way. Next time if I were you I would ask to speak to the meet director at that point. Hell, the guy passed a non-conforming belt so he clearly was a dummy.
Your attitude is good and you just need to get back in the saddle and post a total.
I’m sorry you had such a poor first representation of the fed. If you are so inclined, I would love to know the name of the guy who checked your equipment and the official who DQ’ed you. PM me them if you are willing.
Both of these things were uncalled for.
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
yeah… all you had to say was USAPL. I was handling a lifter once at one of their meets and he was redlighted. when asked why, the judge responded- “it didn’t look quit right” wtf?? the rest of the meet was like that. at one point i gave him a slap on the back before a lift and you would have thought i dropped my pants and took a huge dump right there on the floor. i was told that that type of behavior wasn’t permitted. this was a family environment. very very lame. [/quote]
Once you get more meets under your belt you’ll realize shit like this happens everywhere and you just roll with it.
It’s not a USAPL thing, it’s a meet thing.
It’s what seperates gym lifts from competition lifts.
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
You should not have been disqualified for that. In particular being your first meet the correct thing to do would have been to warn you and have you remove them.
It’s this kind of overly officious behavior that gives USAPL a bad name and it is completely uncalled for.
Additionally, it’s unacceptable for the guy doing equipment check to speak to you that way. Next time if I were you I would ask to speak to the meet director at that point. Hell, the guy passed a non-conforming belt so he clearly was a dummy.
Your attitude is good and you just need to get back in the saddle and post a total.
I’m sorry you had such a poor first representation of the fed. If you are so inclined, I would love to know the name of the guy who checked your equipment and the official who DQ’ed you. PM me them if you are willing.
Both of these things were uncalled for.[/quote]
I appreciate it man. It didnt make me think anyworse of the fed. Ive been to several meets with different federations,including USAPL, as an onlooker and I didnt see anything like this. I honestly couldnt tell you the rep’s name. He really didnt have a good attitude all morning so it wasnt just me. I saw him plain out ignore a lifter asking him a question. I could tell that the woman who knocked me out for my briefs and belt felt somewhat bad about it. She was just following the rules. But Ill be looking at the calendar for more meets in the next year. Hopefully A&M hosts another because I enjoyed visiting the campus again.
[quote]farmerson12 wrote:
[quote]apwsearch wrote:
You should not have been disqualified for that. In particular being your first meet the correct thing to do would have been to warn you and have you remove them.
It’s this kind of overly officious behavior that gives USAPL a bad name and it is completely uncalled for.
Additionally, it’s unacceptable for the guy doing equipment check to speak to you that way. Next time if I were you I would ask to speak to the meet director at that point. Hell, the guy passed a non-conforming belt so he clearly was a dummy.
Your attitude is good and you just need to get back in the saddle and post a total.
I’m sorry you had such a poor first representation of the fed. If you are so inclined, I would love to know the name of the guy who checked your equipment and the official who DQ’ed you. PM me them if you are willing.
Both of these things were uncalled for.[/quote]
I appreciate it man. It didnt make me think anyworse of the fed. Ive been to several meets with different federations,including USAPL, as an onlooker and I didnt see anything like this. I honestly couldnt tell you the rep’s name. He really didnt have a good attitude all morning so it wasnt just me. I saw him plain out ignore a lifter asking him a question. I could tell that the woman who knocked me out for my briefs and belt felt somewhat bad about it. She was just following the rules. But Ill be looking at the calendar for more meets in the next year. Hopefully A&M hosts another because I enjoyed visiting the campus again.[/quote]
A&M hosts that meet every February. On July 16th in Spring, Texas Tony Cardell and his girlfriend Christy will be hosting the Texas Summer Powerfest. I am planning on entering that meet as a raw lifter (no knee wraps, no wrist wraps). Tony is a great guy and I am sure it will be a great meet. Maybe you can make it there if College Station wasn’t too far of a drive.
[quote]farmerson12 wrote:
I appreciate it man. It didnt make me think anyworse of the fed. Ive been to several meets with different federations,including USAPL, as an onlooker and I didnt see anything like this. I honestly couldnt tell you the rep’s name. He really didnt have a good attitude all morning so it wasnt just me. I saw him plain out ignore a lifter asking him a question. I could tell that the woman who knocked me out for my briefs and belt felt somewhat bad about it. She was just following the rules. But Ill be looking at the calendar for more meets in the next year. Hopefully A&M hosts another because I enjoyed visiting the campus again.[/quote]
Well, I have dealt with that very situation at meets we have directed and without exception we will warn the lifter, let them remove the item in question, and continue in the meet. It’s not like you tried to get away with squat briefs, it was an honest mistake and there was no advantage in you wearing boxer briefs.
Like I said, you have a great attitude and I am sure a great future in the sport.
I guess my point in the broader sense was like I said before, as you get more meets under your belt you will realize that one of the most difficult things to overcome in a meet is when things don’t go as planned. Add to this a couple people, who in my opinion, didn’t do the right thing (this happens in every sport and is not unique to powerlifting) and things can get pretty silly pretty fast.
I do agree that Cardella is a good guy and every meet is only as good as the people helping.
The human factor always adds twists and turns.
[quote]jsmiley07 wrote:
[quote]BigSkwatta wrote:
First, meet equipment (bars, plates, etc.) varies even within a federation from meet to meet. Every USAPL meet I have ever been to has had exceptional equipment, and I would never call a monolift better. This can go back to many debates that I would rather not dig up, but you cannot call a monolift any better than squat jacks. That all comes down to a lifters preference on whether they think walking a weight out for squat is better or not. Second, every USAPL meet I have gone to has been conducted in the finest of fashion in some great locations, not places that look like my garage. Finally, ever USAPL meet I have ever been to the depth of a squat is rarely questioned, and that is how I prefer it. A lot of this crap comes down to who is running the meet and whether there are quality judges and a quality meet director. I know any meet that I have ever been to if the judges walked off to come to an agreement on something then the meet director would have punched them in the face over it and taken over themself.[/quote]
This x 9000
[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
at the meet i mentioned earlier, my buddy was on his second attempt at bench. after he got his “press” command he was pressing the weight and for no reason, one of the spotters grabbed his side of the bar causing my buddy to almost drop the bar on his chest. luckily he didn’t injury himself. He jumps up and asks what was that all about?? the spotter said he thought he heard “someone” say “take it”. again…wtf?? the head judge said he would “allow” him to attempt it again. But he would have to attempt it right away. He was clearly shaken from the near drop of the bar on him and obviously tired. I went up to the Judge’s table and asked one of them if he could be at least moved to the end of the flight to give him a moment to collect himself and catch his breath. She looked at me and said “no way… if he wants to lift he will do it right now” so he had to do TWO second attempts one right after the other one. Now that made a lot of sense. It probably didn’t help that i told them that they should get their head out of their asses. [/quote]
That is a pretty major screw-up. It’s very clear in the rules that you HAVE to move it to the end of the round. It’s not bloody optional. It’s been like that for ages, and is currently listed in detail on page 24 in the 2011 rulebook ( http://powerlifting-ipf.com/fileadmin/data/Technical_Rules/IPF_rulebook_02_2011.pdf ).
To paraphrase it, if there is an error by the spotter or a misload and you have started the lift, you get to take it again at the end of the round. If you’re following yourself, you have 4 minutes to get the start call, and one minute less for every lifter before your attempt until it’s the standard 1 minute.
[quote]smokotime wrote:
That is a pretty major screw-up. It’s very clear in the rules that you HAVE to move it to the end of the round. It’s not bloody optional. It’s been like that for ages, and is currently listed in detail on page 24 in the 2011 rulebook ( http://powerlifting-ipf.com/fileadmin/data/Technical_Rules/IPF_rulebook_02_2011.pdf ).
To paraphrase it, if there is an error by the spotter or a misload and you have started the lift, you get to take it again at the end of the round. If you’re following yourself, you have 4 minutes to get the start call, and one minute less for every lifter before your attempt until it’s the standard 1 minute.
[/quote]
Yeah, that was a pretty major screw up but this is where as a coach or handler you approach the jury (at a National level meet) and challenge the ruling or demand to speak to the meet director at a local event. It should then have been over turned.
You can’t rely on people to get things like this right. You have to assert the rules yourself when things are getting sideways.
MM likely doesn’t have the experience/knowledge of the rules to do this.
Having said that and in the absence of a video of the lift, I feel sometimes the head ref allows the lifter to strain with the weight much longer than necessary before calling it and this robs them of critical energy.
I always thank the head ref for a quick call if I am struggling and know in my head I have already done something that would result in DQ of the lift, anyway.
It can be a slippery slope and frankly I have grabbed the bar, in particular while spotting squats, before the ref called it because it was clear things were getting ugly and something needed to be done before the shit hit the fan.
I don’t know how it is in the US, but over here it’s only the nationals that have a jury. The head ref is, for all intents and purposes, the last call when it comes to those things, which sucks!
Spotting I’m always grabbing the bar on downward movement, otherwise it’s the ref or lifters call. It’s a lot less dicey now there’s the safety racks on the bench. The squat is rough, but the rear spotter has to be ready to catch the lifter from when they unrack until they re-rack, so the calling doesn’t seem to change much.
It is hard to call though, I’ll normally tell the spotters to take it if I know I’ve fucked up, but knowing you did is what only really comes with experience.