As far as im concerned and from what ive seen in the gyms ive been too the closer the goals/lifestyle of lifters are the more they are gonna talk to each other
[quote]zraw wrote:
So you want to know why hardcore doesnt exist?..[/quote]
It doesn’t?
Uh, I thought that is what I was here for. If no “hardcore” is here, maybe you should work on bringing it back instead of fussing with me so much.
Clearly…yet a discussion is going on without you somehow.
Boggles the mind, don’t it?
[quote]zraw wrote:
As far as im concerned and from what ive seen in the gyms ive been too the closer the goals/lifestyle of lifters are the more they are gonna talk to each other[/quote]
Yeah, it is like that is most of the real gyms I have ever been in. No one is going to fit into that crowd either just based on what they read somewhere and repeating it outloud.
The question is what allows this major piece of the puzzle when it comes to truly helping people push for more and more to be accepted as lacking over the internet.
You are only strongest as your weakest link…so those with no goals will always bring down those with specific “extreme” goals.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
I guess I just don’t understand where you are coming from. Post your mission statement so we can understand what it is you want to see happen in terms of “camaraderie.”[/quote]
^ this[/quote]
Wow. The OP had:
[quote]Why is it in internet-land, that bond seems to not only be missing lately…but it seems some of the smaller or less developed have now developed some pretty strong attitudes that I even see in the gym lately?
There is a whole new breed of gym goer who hs no clue about gym ettiquette and some even seem to dispise those who worked to stand out from the norm.
How do we maintain that camaraderie in a public forum when it comes so easily face to face…and is lost so quickly once behind a computer screen?
[/quote]
What mission statement? I asked a question for discussion. Maybe you should stop trying to fuss with me personally and simply allow a discussion to happen.[/quote]
I read the OP. The discussion has gone like this:
PX:“how do we maintain that camaraderie?”
Several others: by showing everyone respect
PX: Not everyone deserves respect, you have to earn it. Camaraderie is not about respecting any old Joe Schmoe that walks in
Me: Then please tell me what you want to see in terms of camaraderie
That’s not fussing with you. That’s simply trying to figure out what the hell you are driving at. That’s a discussion, dude.
With all due respect, PX, I don’t think you really understand what “camaraderie” is. If you want to be an elitest, more power to you. Just don’t get all ants in the pants because I disagree with your fundamental premise.
I will tell you this one last thing before I leave this discussion for ever, though: “Act only according to that maxim by which you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law.” - Kant. In other words, treat others how you would like to be treated. IF* you wonder why you are not getting the respect you feel you deserve, ask if you are giving others the respect they deserve. I aspire to accomplish that, and that’s my contribution to the “camaraderie” here. Good day!
[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
With all due respect, PX, I don’t think you really understand what “camaraderie” is. If you want to be an elitest, more power to you. Just don’t get all ants in the pants because I disagree with your fundamental premise. [/quote]
Yeah…that whooshing sound would be the point flying right over your head.
Every serious trainer in the gym is “elitist” on some level. To believe otherwise is pure folly.
Thank you for the politically correct news advisement.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
You are only strongest as your weakest link…so those with no goals will always bring down those with specific “extreme” goals.[/quote]
why? i don’t get it. the beauty of the gym is that we all can “do our own thing” and not really affect anyone around us. i do my OL right next to a powerlifter who’s training next to the guy who’s just there to get out of the house and scope out cardio bunnies. most people at the gym don’t even interact with each other anyway so i don’t see how anyone is bringing anything down.
[quote]zraw wrote:
As far as camaraderie is concerned to be honest I do feel like there is a lot of camaraderie here…
An easy example is you talking about “zraw’s posse”… I do not know any of the guys on this forum yet there is a good number of guys whom I like discussing with etc etc
You have a good camaraderie with SteelyD, irondwarf (rip), etc etc[/quote]
agree’d… it wont be with everybody but there will be a few you conversate with and that is enough… as far as the gym goes, if it were up to me all my weights would be in my garage… but I am weird like that…
Well if we look a bit outside TNation I think that for a big camaraderie to take place on the web to take place all you need is people to be in agreement…
Take a look at the DC subforum… everyone there like each other because they all have the same belief
Go on the carb backcycling forum, same thing
If there was to be a Mountain Dog Training subforum here, same thing would happen
The thing is in a forum with such a large audience, target, there are gonna be a lot of people in disagreement and its way easier to be vocal on the web about something you disagree with
Its like religion wars lol…
[quote]flch95 wrote:
why? i don’t get it. the beauty of the gym is that we all can “do our own thing” and not really affect anyone around us. [/quote]
This isn’t a gym. By its very nature, this forum actually makes it closer to being in a room filled with people looking for common ground to DISCUSS AND COMMUNICATE on.
That is closer to a fraternized gym atmosphere than some place where everyone is off doing their on thing.
[quote]
i do my OL right next to a powerlifter who’s training next to the guy who’s just there to get out of the house and scope out cardio bunnies. most people at the gym don’t even interact with each other anyway so i don’t see how anyone is bringing anything down.[/quote]
But…we are interacting…which changes that scenario.
[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
If you see someone deadlift 500 lbs, even if you’ve never spoken to that person, you likely will hold a certain amount of respect for him or her (especially if its a her). Here, all we have is words, and considering so much of this is anonymous, we’re just pairing opinions with faceless names.[/quote]
Honestly, I think this is self-correctable to an extent. The forum is only as anonymous as people choose to be. I understand maintaining a level of privacy, but it’s pretty easy for people to use a face-blurred pic of themselves as an avatar, or at least participate in the Check-In threads that now pop up regularly in GAL. Not for nothing, but thanks to those Check-in threads, a few formerly-anonymous posters have put up some pics that increased their training credibility (in my eyes at least).
Super Saiyan is actually pretty big, not some pencilneck goof who posts gifs and memes all day. LankyMofo is pretty built for someone 9 feet tall. Hell, even DBCooper is in good shape for someone who’s constantly channelling an ADHD-version of Hunter S. Thompson.
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
In the gym, it’s different. You see the same faces over and over again and start to take note of who is dedicated and who is full of shit. Not only that, but you develop a sense of familiarity with like-minded people just from seeing them so much. It seems almost like some strange sort of family. [/quote]
The last few months, I’ve been intentionally trying to shake hands and “officially” meet some of the regulars I see in my gym. A simple, “What’s up, I’m Chris. I see you in here every time I’m training and just wanted to say hey.” Boom. That transforms “leg press lady” or “hammer strength press dude” or “pull-up kid” into "Scott the potential spotter or “Dave the between-set chat pal.” It’s also how you learn who has a show coming up and whose brain you can pick for legit tips.
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
In person people are nicer, less ride, less condescending, less pompous and have a less “know it all/must be right” attitude because those sort of interactions are frowned upon “IRL”, for the most part.[/quote]
You spelled “rude” wrong. Holy shit, how much of a mindless simpleton do you have to be to spell a fucking four letter word wrong? WTF!?!
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
If you see someone deadlift 500 lbs, even if you’ve never spoken to that person, you likely will hold a certain amount of respect for him or her (especially if its a her). Here, all we have is words, and considering so much of this is anonymous, we’re just pairing opinions with faceless names.[/quote]
Honestly, I think this is self-correctable to an extent. The forum is only as anonymous as people choose to be. I understand maintaining a level of privacy, but it’s pretty easy for people to use a face-blurred pic of themselves as an avatar, or at least participate in the Check-In threads that now pop up regularly in GAL. Not for nothing, but thanks to those Check-in threads, a few formerly-anonymous posters have put up some pics that increased their training credibility (in my eyes at least).
Super Saiyan is actually pretty big, not some pencilneck goof who posts gifs and memes all day. LankyMofo is pretty built for someone 9 feet tall. Hell, even DBCooper is in good shape for someone who’s constantly channelling an ADHD-version of Hunter S. Thompson.
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
In the gym, it’s different. You see the same faces over and over again and start to take note of who is dedicated and who is full of shit. Not only that, but you develop a sense of familiarity with like-minded people just from seeing them so much. It seems almost like some strange sort of family. [/quote]
The last few months, I’ve been intentionally trying to shake hands and “officially” meet some of the regulars I see in my gym. A simple, “What’s up, I’m Chris. I see you in here every time I’m training and just wanted to say hey.” Boom. That transforms “leg press lady” or “hammer strength press dude” or “pull-up kid” into "Scott the potential spotter or “Dave the between-set chat pal.” It’s also how you learn who has a show coming up and whose brain you can pick for legit tips.
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
In person people are nicer, less ride, less condescending, less pompous and have a less “know it all/must be right” attitude because those sort of interactions are frowned upon “IRL”, for the most part.[/quote]
You spelled “rude” wrong. Holy shit, how much of a mindless simpleton do you have to be to spell a fucking four letter word wrong? WTF!?!
:)[/quote]
This. This so much.
TPS is like a weird family here in Boston. For me personally, I’d like to know as many of the serious recreational lifters as much as the competitive athletes we have training at TPS. If anything, it puts a name with a face and you can enjoy the communal aspect of lifting. I’m also spoiled to be in the Brotherhood of Iron Facebook groups where it is very much the same thing.
[quote]zraw wrote:
Well if we look a bit outside TNation I think that for a big camaraderie to take place on the web to take place all you need is people to be in agreement…
Take a look at the DC subforum… everyone there like each other because they all have the same belief
Go on the carb backcycling forum, same thing
If there was to be a Mountain Dog Training subforum here, same thing would happen
The thing is in a forum with such a large audience, target, there are gonna be a lot of people in disagreement and its way easier to be vocal on the web about something you disagree with
Its like religion wars lol… [/quote]
I kinda agree with the analogy. The only thing with those examples is that the people there are basically pre-sorted to having more than a few things/beliefs/ideas in common. They all generally “agree” with DC training if they’re signed up there, they believe carb backcycling is ideal, etc.
With this forum, other than wanting to end up bigger/stronger/leaner, most people have different ideas of the best way there… and that’s where most debates/arguments come from. Really though, if zraw, X, Thib, and BlueCollarTr8n went to train together and then went for burgers, I’d bet good money you guys would all have a great training session and you’d all have some great conversations afterwards.
The OP seemed pretty easy to understand imo… Some of you seem deliberately confused hahaha.
The reason there is no “camaraderie” on this site is that people don’t have any pecking order or way to discern who is the alpha, thus they just jump in and throw poop at each other whenever they want. People can say whatever they want on the internet because there is zero ramifications to it.
I can tell someone they are an asshole on this forum and never have to worry about it. I don’t because I’m a decent person who can handle when people disagree with me, but the internet turns everyone into the most insecure babyish version of themselves and they feel the need to assert their dominance because they know they will never truly have to back it up.
In real life, if someone asks a question, and someone else is an asshole for no reason, that person would either get their ass kicked, or be completely shut out and eventually ostracized from the group. The camaraderie works in real life because those checks and balances exist.
If people exhibited the type of behavior that is frequently shown here in real life, they would have no one in the gym to have camaraderie with, because nobody wants to talk to an insecure argumentative extremist asshole is real life. There is no way to enforce any sort of social order or responsibility on the internet, because there is nothing stopping the person being the asshole from continuing to post over and over.
So, I get exactly what I want from my relationship with T-Nation. I am using the word relationship because many of the people who are having a negative experience are past the point of camaraderie. Gym camaraderie does not involve commentary on what others think or are doing. This level of interaction should be reserved for relationships above the casual.
Of course we have people who solicit the forum for information or suggestions. You can provide your opinion and anyone can reply to not only the op but any responders information. If you find that you don’t like this effect perhaps post less or limit to op and ignore responses or only post when directly solicited.
One way to do this would be to have your own training log and allow those interested to follow and ask questions. This may greatly reduce your feelings of how much demand actually exists for your commentary or opinion.
X, here is a question. If you do not like how the forum is why not find one that you do like or start your own?
[quote]Mtag666 wrote:
Point is if you’re serious about lifting, whatever aspect it is, you can and should get respected by other serious lifters. Everyone has the goals of being bigger stronger and leaner. (well with one notable exception)
[/quote]
That’s kinda the way the group I train with came together. We all lift heavy and it just makes more sense for all of us to start working out together. We all lift for different reasons (2 are bodybuilders and the rest of us are/were powerlifters).
I mean if you are squating, doing deads, or stacking obscene plates on a leg press you kinda like to train with people that can relate, do the same, and can help rack/unrack. It was like we gravitated to each other. Everyone of us is different and thank God all of us have thick skin because we rip each other a new one almost every day. It’s great motivation.
I know the rest of the gym has this opinion that we are pricks and we probably are but we have busted our ass to get that way.
[quote]DN90 wrote:
Maybe I misread the OP, but the answer seems pretty simple:
People are pretty nasty to each other on the internet because there is nothing on the line. IRL you face consequences. Online there’s nothing to lose.
The same reason why in high school we were so nasty to each other. There was really nothing on the line… or at least it felt like it.
As for the issue of younger guys being rude in the gym…no clue us young fellas are fine where I go to the gym.
[/quote]
Please post more often, that avatar is mesmerising!
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
[quote]Smashingweights wrote:
In person people are nicer, less ride, less condescending, less pompous and have a less “know it all/must be right” attitude because those sort of interactions are frowned upon “IRL”, for the most part.[/quote]
You spelled “rude” wrong. Holy shit, how much of a mindless simpleton do you have to be to spell a fucking four letter word wrong? WTF!?!
:)[/quote]
Lol, autocorrect strikes again
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Someone tells me they have the stats of IFBB pros when natural or they don’t have the same physique or body comp as them, what are people supposed to say to this?
[/quote]
Who did this? if they have the same stats, that would mean the same body comp also. I haven’t seen anyone here make that claim to match the body comp and stats of an IFBB pro but not look like it.
Who did that?