[quote]MWP wrote:
[quote]Waittz wrote:
The common denominator always seems to be work ethic in the gym.[/quote]
and can you do a true parallel squat? [/quote]
hahah, man that is pretty spot on. I remember when I first started training, on squat days the big dudes would come by and give me the ‘nod’ even though I had like 95 on the bar and barely weighed more than that myself soaking wet with rocks in my pocket.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
Wouldnt even talk to one to be honest. I dont like people that dont respect themselves and their bodies.
[/quote]
…which would be called “elitist” by many people…which is what many of us are if we admit it or not.[/quote]
I would call this me being selective in a situation that allows me to be selective. If I were paired with that said fat obese morbid and lets pretend stupid woman for a class project or a work assignment or whatever I would 100% respect her
Now, I see the internet as the later where you are paired with a lot of different individuals, some whom you maybe wouldnt like and wouldnt talk too if you had the opportunity to be selective… You could be just as selective on the web but its gonna bring on a lot of shit… just like it would if I were to told the fat stupid woman that she’s a fat stupid woman if I had a class project with her
Idk if what im saying makes sense?
[quote]Waittz wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
Wouldnt even talk to one to be honest. I dont like people that dont respect themselves and their bodies.
[/quote]
…which would be called “elitist” by many people…which is what many of us are if we admit it or not.[/quote]
Is ‘elitist’ supposed to be an insult? To be honest the general population is fat, stupid, lazy and worthless. I am kind of proud to be an elitist. [/quote]
It was apparently an insult to me alone…even though anyone truly serioius could be seen that way.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
Have to agree, I’m afraid.
From Merriam Webster: caÃ??Ã?·maÃ??Ã?·raÃ??Ã?·deÃ??Ã?·rie noun: “spirit of friendly good fellowship.”
Good fellowship starts with making people feel welcome and respected. Hard to argue with that.
[/quote]
No, good fellowship comes from meeting on COMMON GROUND…which requires some understanding of the effort to be there.
[quote]
If your argument is: why is there not more camaraderie among elite posters (meatheads, I presume, I obviously cannot say. [/quote]
That is not my argument.
[quote]
If your question is why aren’t you, personally, in your role as an established meathead on T-Nation, respected more and treated with a greater sense of camaraderie, I think you have already formed a well-entrenched opinion on that issue and there’s really no reason to discuss it unless you are eager for more poop-flinging. [/quote]
?? If you make this thread about me, it is your own doing.
If zraw can write he wouldn’t even talk to an obese woman and NOT be seen as elitist, smething is wrong.[/quote]
Could the common ground not be interest in getting bigger, stronger and leaner? Not just those who are already as BSL as they’d like to be?
And I think I agree with the elitist thing. Seems like everybody who takes a great deal of pride in what they do and what they’ve achieved is (or should be) an elitist. Doesn’t necessarily have to be a derogatory term.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
Tnation isnt a real gym.[/quote]
The whole thread was making a comparison and asking a question. It is understood that T-Nation is not a real gym.
[quote]
. its a website made to cather to A LOT of different crowds… im not sure what you are trying to say here to be honest
Would you want the “non meatheads” to shut the f up and not discuss any subjects brought by “meatheads” cause irl they wouldnt even “have the chance” of talking to these big guys?[/quote]
I didn’t say any of this. Why would a meathead not speak to someone? It is strange some of you show that seperatism from others daily but now claim someone is “elitist” if they dare dicuss ways to bring those with common goals together.[/quote]
Well sorry I was under the impression that being against everyone feeling welcomed was kind of like… wanting those not part of said group to… not try and discuss some things the meatheads would like to discuss by themselves
Im not trying to turn this into a big argument as much as im trying to see what you are really asking or want to know, or would like this place to feel like or whatever
[quote]setto222 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
Have to agree, I’m afraid.
From Merriam Webster: caÃ???Ã??Ã?·maÃ???Ã??Ã?·raÃ???Ã??Ã?·deÃ???Ã??Ã?·rie noun: “spirit of friendly good fellowship.”
Good fellowship starts with making people feel welcome and respected. Hard to argue with that.
[/quote]
No, good fellowship comes from meeting on COMMON GROUND…which requires some understanding of the effort to be there.
[quote]
If your argument is: why is there not more camaraderie among elite posters (meatheads, I presume, I obviously cannot say. [/quote]
That is not my argument.
[quote]
If your question is why aren’t you, personally, in your role as an established meathead on T-Nation, respected more and treated with a greater sense of camaraderie, I think you have already formed a well-entrenched opinion on that issue and there’s really no reason to discuss it unless you are eager for more poop-flinging. [/quote]
?? If you make this thread about me, it is your own doing.
If zraw can write he wouldn’t even talk to an obese woman and NOT be seen as elitist, smething is wrong.[/quote]
Could the common ground not be interest in getting bigger, stronger and leaner? Not just those who are already as BSL as they’d like to be?
And I think I agree with the elitist thing. Seems like everybody who takes a great deal of pride in what they do and what they’ve achieved is (or should be) an elitist. Doesn’t necessarily have to be a derogatory term. [/quote]
This pretty much sums up what I think of as “meathead comraderie”. In my gym there’s very few guys who are serious about lifting, but whether they’re bodybuilder’s powerlifters or one random ass russian guy who does nothing but snatches, they all talk to eachother. The guy who’s prepping for a show isn’t telling the powerlifters they’re “not cut out for this” because they’re in lower weightclasses, because still strong as fuck. The powerlifters aren’t calling out the guy prepping for a show because he squats in the smith machine.
Point is if you’re serious about lifting, whatever aspect it is, you can and should get respected by other serious lifters. Everyone has the goals of being bigger stronger and leaner. (well with one notable exception)
[quote]Mtag666 wrote:
This pretty much sums up what I think of as “meathead comraderie”. In my gym there’s very few guys who are serious about lifting, but whether they’re bodybuilder’s powerlifters or one random ass russian guy who does nothing but snatches, they all talk to eachother. The guy who’s prepping for a show isn’t telling the powerlifters they’re “not cut out for this” because they’re in lower weightclasses, because still strong as fuck. The powerlifters aren’t calling out the guy prepping for a show because he squats in the smith machine.
Point is if you’re serious about lifting, whatever aspect it is, you can and should get respected by other serious lifters. Everyone has the goals of being bigger stronger and leaner. (well with one notable exception)
[/quote]
And there-in lies my trouble with gym-goers:
who the FUCK is that random ass Russian guy and WHY does he get such better results than me!? I swear…I even saw him practice his O-lifting with a luffa in the shower.
[quote]super saiyan wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
My 2 cents regarding this:
Establish an atmosphere where everyone are welcomed and are treated with dignity and respect.
[/quote]
What does this mean?
Everyone isn’t a meathead…even thouh everyone may want to be around.
Don’t you lose the soul of what that is if “everyone” in internet land feels welcome?[/quote]
This sounds elitist as fuck… sorry…
[/quote]
Aren’t most of the people here to some degree?
No offense, but would you marry a morbidly obese woman, Zraw?[/quote]
[/quote]
was only a matter of time, dude, lol.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
Have to agree, I’m afraid.
From Merriam Webster: caÃ??Ã?·maÃ??Ã?·raÃ??Ã?·deÃ??Ã?·rie noun: “spirit of friendly good fellowship.”
Good fellowship starts with making people feel welcome and respected. Hard to argue with that.
[/quote]
No, good fellowship comes from meeting on COMMON GROUND…which requires some understanding of the effort to be there.
[quote]
If your argument is: why is there not more camaraderie among elite posters (meatheads, I presume, I obviously cannot say. [/quote]
That is not my argument.
[quote]
If your question is why aren’t you, personally, in your role as an established meathead on T-Nation, respected more and treated with a greater sense of camaraderie, I think you have already formed a well-entrenched opinion on that issue and there’s really no reason to discuss it unless you are eager for more poop-flinging. [/quote]
?? If you make this thread about me, it is your own doing.
If zraw can write he wouldn’t even talk to an obese woman and NOT be seen as elitist, smething is wrong.[/quote]
I feel like you are jumbling up a lot of things so it’s genuinely hard to follow your point here.
what zraw does or doesn’t do in his personal life re: women isn’t really relevant to elitism on T-Nation forums. I assume he means he would never approach an obese woman in a sexual context, not that he would not, under any circumstances, talk to an obese woman re: any topic. It’s hard not to interact with obese people as a life principle. That’s his preference, just as he can choose not to interact with particular people on here. That is different than saying, I won’t show you any respect on T-Nation unless I feel you are a bona-fide meathead.
Believe it or not, I don’t care about you. I’m not out to get you or make anything about you. I was just trying to figure out what your point is here. From what I gather, you believe camaraderie on here should be a consequence of merit, as in, if you want to feel the warm embrace of the T-Nation forum, you should have to earn it through… whatever (that would be a whole new topic). I think most people would disagree. On a fundamental level, people just want to be treated with dignity and respect. I have less than 30 posts, and you have approaching 50k or something (not really sure). Does this mean you should have more cred on here? Maybe, I guess that’s for an individual reading a given post to decide. It certainly shouldn’t mean I can’t participate in the debate without being ridiculed or disrepected.
If you want an elite only forum where only a select few can participate, why not start your own brotherhood of iron or something.
I guess I just don’t understand where you are coming from. Post your mission statement so we can understand what it is you want to see happen in terms of “camaraderie.”
[quote]setto222 wrote:
Could the common ground not be interest in getting bigger, stronger and leaner? Not just those who are already as BSL as they’d like to be? [/quote]
That is what I would hope it would be.
Some of the guys I speak to the most of the hardworking younger guys who are just getting into it and making great progress.
[quote]
And I think I agree with the elitist thing. Seems like everybody who takes a great deal of pride in what they do and what they’ve achieved is (or should be) an elitist. Doesn’t necessarily have to be a derogatory term. [/quote]
Exactly.
[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
I guess I just don’t understand where you are coming from. Post your mission statement so we can understand what it is you want to see happen in terms of “camaraderie.”[/quote]
^ this
[quote]zraw wrote:
Well sorry I was under the impression that being against everyone feeling welcomed was kind of like… wanting those not part of said group to… not try and discuss some things the meatheads would like to discuss by themselves
[/quote]
Uh…yeah…that is what I am saying.
If “everyone” feels welcome, then “hardcore” doesn’t exist.
[quote]stinger70 wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
I wouldn’t say the bond is missing here. Look at the multiple threads in BSL about making someone leaner or where the Vets are mentoring another member. Those threads are good. rds63799, for example, has really steped up in Stinger70s thread.
[/quote]
Part of my reasons for wanting to be bigger/strong/leaner are to fit in with this ‘camaraderie’ that the prof speaks of. That may seem kind of retarded to some, but let me try and explain. I’ve watched bodybuilders at my gym for months and i kind of look at them with a sense of understanding and common ground, unlike the guys who are in there to have a chat and flex their abs in the mirror. I know what they are doing, and every time i overhear their conversations on diet or training i know what they are talking about.
Lets be honest, that common ground and understanding doesnt get returned until you LOOK like you know what you are talking about. I’m just the scrawny guy that is there same time every week pulling deadlifts with double the effort of everyone else in the gym. Honestly, i’m surprised none of these big guys have sparked up a conversation relating to how im doing the same shit as them and not bro-ing out like the other lifters. Or maybe offered some pointers.
Instead i am recognised and respected by the “above average” crowd, they can see im there to train hard and i’ve had a couple ask me for a spot and tell me i had good form on the lift i was doing or whatever. But i think there is an attitude among a lot of the biggest guys where unless someone is their size, they don’t qualify for the gym camaraderie, and that is something that i always crave when i see those pictures from pumping iron. So professor X, if you ever see me in a gym come and talk to me i might just know what you are talking about and be able to relate, looks can be deceiving![/quote]
this makes me almost want to cry, 
if you crave their attention and approval so much, why don’t you go initiate conversation with them? i dunno. i guess i just don’t relate to this sentiment.
[quote]Angus1 wrote:
[quote]Waittz wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
In my gym, all of the bigger or more developed guys seem to know each other. It really doesn’t matter if they are old or young, it is like you have something in common with those people…and you just know it when you see each other.
It isn’t about a certain size either…but more a look and a vibe you get from certain people.
This is why I train at certain gyms…because of the people and the atmosphere that brings.
Why is it in internet-land, that bond seems to not only be missing lately…but it seems some of the smaller or less developed have now developed some pretty strong attitudes that I even see in the gym lately?
There is a whole new breed of gym goer who hs no clue about gym ettiquette and some even seem to dispise those who worked to stand out from the norm.
How do we maintain that camaraderie in a public forum when it comes so easily face to face…and is lost so quickly once behind a computer screen?
[/quote]
I think the number 1 thing needs to be acceptance of individual goals all around. If someone wants to get big at all costs, cheer them on. If someone wants to be lean and balanced, cheer them on. If someone wants to get strong, cheer them on. As long as that person busts there ass to achieve their goal they should be considered a peer.
This forum routinely turns to shit when people cannot accept the fact that there is more than 1 way to skin a cat.
To X and the comment on vibe, from my experience it is not a size, or a degree of leanness etc. The common denominator always seems to be work ethic in the gym.[/quote]
I agree with this.
We all have different goals. Some of us want to be strong as a bull.
Some want to be ripped to shreds and some just want to be huge.
Not to mention the athletes and fighters on here as well.
To think that having any one of these goals is superior to the others is just being narrow minded. [/quote]
I agree with the last two comments here… When somebody is busting their ass in the gym they get respect… So far nobody has trashed my goals(except for telling me I will need to juice to get them) I am just hear to learn from people that have been doing this for years… Not to mention posting my log has kept me honest…
[quote]zraw wrote:
[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
I guess I just don’t understand where you are coming from. Post your mission statement so we can understand what it is you want to see happen in terms of “camaraderie.”[/quote]
^ this[/quote]
Wow. The OP had:
[quote]Why is it in internet-land, that bond seems to not only be missing lately…but it seems some of the smaller or less developed have now developed some pretty strong attitudes that I even see in the gym lately?
There is a whole new breed of gym goer who hs no clue about gym ettiquette and some even seem to dispise those who worked to stand out from the norm.
How do we maintain that camaraderie in a public forum when it comes so easily face to face…and is lost so quickly once behind a computer screen?
[/quote]
What mission statement? I asked a question for discussion. Maybe you should stop trying to fuss with me personally and simply allow a discussion to happen.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]zraw wrote:
Well sorry I was under the impression that being against everyone feeling welcomed was kind of like… wanting those not part of said group to… not try and discuss some things the meatheads would like to discuss by themselves
[/quote]
Uh…yeah…that is what I am saying.
If “everyone” feels welcome, then “hardcore” doesn’t exist.[/quote]
So you want to know why hardcore doesnt exist?..
Well simply put because this website is made to cather to different crowds in order to sell more supplements…
I just dont understand what it is you actually want to discuss…
[quote]krummdiddy wrote:
[quote]Angus1 wrote:
[quote]Waittz wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
In my gym, all of the bigger or more developed guys seem to know each other. It really doesn’t matter if they are old or young, it is like you have something in common with those people…and you just know it when you see each other.
It isn’t about a certain size either…but more a look and a vibe you get from certain people.
This is why I train at certain gyms…because of the people and the atmosphere that brings.
Why is it in internet-land, that bond seems to not only be missing lately…but it seems some of the smaller or less developed have now developed some pretty strong attitudes that I even see in the gym lately?
There is a whole new breed of gym goer who hs no clue about gym ettiquette and some even seem to dispise those who worked to stand out from the norm.
How do we maintain that camaraderie in a public forum when it comes so easily face to face…and is lost so quickly once behind a computer screen?
[/quote]
I think the number 1 thing needs to be acceptance of individual goals all around. If someone wants to get big at all costs, cheer them on. If someone wants to be lean and balanced, cheer them on. If someone wants to get strong, cheer them on. As long as that person busts there ass to achieve their goal they should be considered a peer.
This forum routinely turns to shit when people cannot accept the fact that there is more than 1 way to skin a cat.
To X and the comment on vibe, from my experience it is not a size, or a degree of leanness etc. The common denominator always seems to be work ethic in the gym.[/quote]
I agree with this.
We all have different goals. Some of us want to be strong as a bull.
Some want to be ripped to shreds and some just want to be huge.
Not to mention the athletes and fighters on here as well.
To think that having any one of these goals is superior to the others is just being narrow minded. [/quote]
I agree with the last two comments here… When somebody is busting their ass in the gym they get respect… So far nobody has trashed my goals(except for telling me I will need to juice to get them) I am just hear to learn from people that have been doing this for years… Not to mention posting my log has kept me honest…[/quote]
x2
one thing I notice in my gym is that all the serious lifters talk to each other a lot and we do form our own group…there are a couple that are sometimes disrespectful about other goals (the guy who just does chest and arms will trash deadlifts, and the crossfit guy will bash everyone’s deadlift and squat form but doesn’t look like he lifts), but the guys who talk trash are usually taken down a peg by the other lifters lol. The common denominator is that we all lift seriously and don’t take weeks off like most gym-goers
As far as camaraderie is concerned to be honest I do feel like there is a lot of camaraderie here…
An easy example is you talking about “zraw’s posse”… I do not know any of the guys on this forum yet there is a good number of guys whom I like discussing with etc etc
You have a good camaraderie with SteelyD, irondwarf (rip), etc etc
