[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I have no clue how I’m avoiding it by using a combination of things I said before:
Following bodybuilding for 17 years.
Reading the works of some highly involved people, some with related degrees AND DEMONSTRATED COMPETENCE in nutrition and exercise physiology.
Looking at what thousands of top bodybuilders have achieved in the past six decades.
Obviously, you’re not fond of this list, or my reasoning. [/quote]
You were asked how many of those guys started training after the age of full maturity.
Please answer this.[/quote]
That I can’t provide. I already told you SO MANY times that much of this is SPECULATION and ACADEMIC, but you don’t like speculation either. [/quote]
I love speculation…done correctly.
making a claim on what most people can do after a certain age when your original base study group has UNKNOWN AGES OF BEGINNING makes your stance…baseless.
Your tendency to mention “30 and 40lbs of muscle” as representative of what someone gains is also baseless. No one could know that without autopsy…which makes the number you keep mentioning ARBITRARY.
Please responds directly.[/quote]
You are right that this cannot be proven without a doubt, however looking at the information that is available, many people much more experienced in the field than most of us have developed similar opinions to those of Brick. There has to be a limit somewhere and I think that Bricks estimate is pretty close. [/quote]
Correct. Hence it’s not arbitrary. If I say I got this from observing so many bodybuilders over the years, it’s not arbitrary. If I had come up with a number based on no observation or critical thinking, it would be arbitrary.
You are right that this cannot be proven without a doubt, however looking at the information that is available, many people much more experienced in the field than most of us have developed similar opinions to those of Brick. There has to be a limit somewhere and I think that Bricks estimate is pretty close. [/quote]
Yeah, that would be why we had those huge discussions about ethnicity. It is amazing how it is like all of that didn’t happen because of the same parade of nonsense through every thread.
[quote]zraw wrote:
You arent often given the choice to speak or not to someone
If in a bar no i wont go to the morbidly obese girl.whom.I am.not attracted to
If im sitting next to a morbidly.obese.person and that person asks.me a question ill.be jst as nice to that person as id be to anyone else
Can you see the nuance here?
I speak to fat people on a daily basis and im.nice with them and dont maks.them.feel.like they dont belong
Lol[/quote]
Zraw would be an elitist if he believed and behaved as though an obese person would not be worthy and should not speak to him. This does not appear to be the case by his posts. Some would consider him shallow for the views he does have(I don’t) but they are not elitist.
Again Prof X, I am not trying to pile on. Just calling things as I see them and trying to remain as respectful in debate as is possible. I hope that is clear.[/quote]
WTF?
Who is saying that someone shouldn’t be worthy to speak to someone?
That is not my stance so what is it that is being argued?
Correct. Hence it’s not arbitrary. If I say I got this from observing so many bodybuilders over the years, it’s not arbitrary. If I had come up with a number based on no observation or critical thinking, it would be arbitrary. [/quote]
Wrong. It is arbitrary for all of the reasons we spent 3 threads discussing.
We need to rewrite it all here again?
If most of the people you are looking at all started at UNKNOWN AGES and were all predominantly of only one ethnic group in majority, claiming what all humans can do from that sample is dubious at best and should NOT be used to claim that someone couldn’t possibly have done more.
Correct. Hence it’s not arbitrary. If I say I got this from observing so many bodybuilders over the years, it’s not arbitrary. If I had come up with a number based on no observation or critical thinking, it would be arbitrary. [/quote]
Wrong. It is arbitrary for all of the reasons we spent 3 threads discussing.
We need to rewrite it all here again?
If most of the people you are looking at all started at UNKNOWN AGES and were all predominantly of only one ethnic group in majority, claiming what all humans can do from that sample is dubious at best and should NOT be used to claim that someone couldn’t possibly have done more.[/quote]
Alright, once again, you don’t like my reasoning or my statements. I accept that.
[quote]zraw wrote:
You arent often given the choice to speak or not to someone
If in a bar no i wont go to the morbidly obese girl.whom.I am.not attracted to
If im sitting next to a morbidly.obese.person and that person asks.me a question ill.be jst as nice to that person as id be to anyone else
Can you see the nuance here?
I speak to fat people on a daily basis and im.nice with them and dont maks.them.feel.like they dont belong
Lol[/quote]
Zraw would be an elitist if he believed and behaved as though an obese person would not be worthy and should not speak to him. This does not appear to be the case by his posts. Some would consider him shallow for the views he does have(I don’t) but they are not elitist.
Again Prof X, I am not trying to pile on. Just calling things as I see them and trying to remain as respectful in debate as is possible. I hope that is clear.[/quote]
WTF?
Who is saying that someone shouldn’t be worthy to speak to someone?
That is not my stance so what is it that is being argued?
[/quote]
I wasn’t saying that was your stance. I am saying that if Zraw believed that then he would be elitist. It appears he doesn’t so he is not elitist. That is my argument.
You all seem to have great camaraderie to me. These discussions go for pages and pages and pages on end. And as for Zraw’s team of ne’er-do-wells who in addition to lacking reading comprehension skills are also racist and out to get people, I think if you all woke up tomorrow and Professor X was gone, you’d all be left sad with a full house shaped hole in your hearts.
I wasn’t saying that was your stance. I am saying that if Zraw believed that then he would be elitist. It appears he doesn’t so he is not elitist. That is my argument.[/quote]
Yet you didn’t raise a finger to dispel the labels of elitism I was getting just from stating what happens socially in most real hardcore gyms.
[quote]csulli wrote:
I think if you all woke up tomorrow and Professor X was gone, you’d all be left sad with a full house shaped hole in your hearts.[/quote]
Do you mean “gone” as in pass away or “gone” as in left this board. Because if some guy I conversed with many times passed away, I surely would be sad considering that life is far more important than discussions about muscle gain and eating.
Correct. Hence it’s not arbitrary. If I say I got this from observing so many bodybuilders over the years, it’s not arbitrary. If I had come up with a number based on no observation or critical thinking, it would be arbitrary. [/quote]
Wrong. It is arbitrary for all of the reasons we spent 3 threads discussing.
We need to rewrite it all here again?
If most of the people you are looking at all started at UNKNOWN AGES and were all predominantly of only one ethnic group in majority, claiming what all humans can do from that sample is dubious at best and should NOT be used to claim that someone couldn’t possibly have done more.[/quote]
Alright, once again, you don’t like my reasoning or my statements. I accept that. [/quote]
WTF?
That is what I am talking about. This is not a response. It is a duck and run because you know you don’t have anything to back it up.
Then you turn around and claim I am attacking you for whatever reason.
Simply put, you can’t even explain where this “30lbs or 40lbs” number keeps coming from…which means yes, you should be questioned on it since you are claiming it as some kind of science fact.
Correct. Hence it’s not arbitrary. If I say I got this from observing so many bodybuilders over the years, it’s not arbitrary. If I had come up with a number based on no observation or critical thinking, it would be arbitrary. [/quote]
Wrong. It is arbitrary for all of the reasons we spent 3 threads discussing.
We need to rewrite it all here again?
If most of the people you are looking at all started at UNKNOWN AGES and were all predominantly of only one ethnic group in majority, claiming what all humans can do from that sample is dubious at best and should NOT be used to claim that someone couldn’t possibly have done more.[/quote]
Alright, once again, you don’t like my reasoning or my statements. I accept that. [/quote]
WTF?
That is what I am talking about. This is not a response. It is a duck and run because you know you don’t have anything to back it up.
Then you turn around and claim I am attacking you for whatever reason.
Simply put, you can’t even explain where this “30lbs or 40lbs” number keeps coming from…which means yes, you should be questioned on it since you are claiming it as some kind of science fact.[/quote]
Brick has said it about 1,000 times already.
His 30 or 40 pounds number comes from observing competitive bodybuilding for 17+ years and serif what is accomplished by the very best of the best.
Couple that with the writings of many well respected coaches.
He has reached his own opinion based on those two factors.
How is this so hard to understand?
This board is utterly frustrating.
Brick has said it about 1,000 times already.
His 30 or 40 pounds number comes from observing competitive bodybuilding for 17+ years and serif what is accomplished by the very best of the best.
Couple that with the writings of many well respected coaches.
He has reached his own opinion based on those two factors.
How is this so hard to understand?
This board is utterly frustrating.[/quote]
Once again, no one can know a number like that in relation to only muscle mass without killing someone first.
Correct. Hence it’s not arbitrary. If I say I got this from observing so many bodybuilders over the years, it’s not arbitrary. If I had come up with a number based on no observation or critical thinking, it would be arbitrary. [/quote]
Wrong. It is arbitrary for all of the reasons we spent 3 threads discussing.
We need to rewrite it all here again?
If most of the people you are looking at all started at UNKNOWN AGES and were all predominantly of only one ethnic group in majority, claiming what all humans can do from that sample is dubious at best and should NOT be used to claim that someone couldn’t possibly have done more.[/quote]
I believe that regardless of ethnicity, those numbers are still fairly accurate based on the anecdotal evidence that has been amassed by trainers. I think that it would take someone truly genetically gifted to reach the limit that Brick has presented. Those are your outliers. And I don’t consider the realm of muscular development to be as dominated by African ethnic groups as other expressions of athleticism, like speed. I think you also the Somoan, Nordic, and other Eastern European groups that can match them in that realm.