McCain...a Lying Skunk?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]lixy wrote:
Now, I have no problems giving McCain the benefit of the doubt, but your attempt to dismiss the OP on the ground that “military records” are untouchable just 'cause you say so is evidently flawed.

Bring forth arguments why you think McCain’s version is more credible than that of the other veteran. Say that “lying skunk” is a cheap-shot. What you shouldn’t be doing, is appeal to emotions to slam the opposing viewpoint. I don’t want to use terms such as “censor” but you’ve come pretty close.[/quote]

Since every post here serves to bump this worthless thread, this will be my last.

Respecting someone for their military service is basic decency. The entire concept of decency is irrational and an appeal to emotion, and I really don’t give a shit. If you don’t understand what decency is, then blame your parents, it’s not my job to teach you.

I never said military records are untouchable, if every enlisted man who served under a man and every officer who served with him came out and said he was a despicable piece of shit then you’d probably have something. But then I find it impossible to believe that such a man would get an honorable discharge, and that his despicable nature would not make it into the official record. If you think otherwise then you are the type who dismisses obvious truths to grasp at conspiracy theories.

The best case scenario, of trying to re-write a man’s military record, would be something like the swift boat vets, where you have some men served with Kerry, who 30 years after the fact remember that they didn’t think his wounds were serious and that he didn’t deserve his medals, versus another group who served with him, who said that he was a fine officer, and did deserve his medals. All you end up with is one account versus another, one memory versus another, people will believe whichever side shares their own political prejudices, and nothing will ever get settled.

In this case, McCain has his military record and the testimony of his fellow prisoners, and yet, you are somehow saying that this he has to prove his innocence against the word of a man who wasn’t even there, and bases his charges on testimony of unknown, anonymous people who just happen to know more than everyone involved? Are you so desperate for human interaction that you will try to start an argument over this shit?

22

Also regarding Kerry, don’t forget that Kerry was running on a platform that was essentially “I was a brave soldier, and W was not!” That was honestly about the entirety of his campaign.

Thus, it was not too out of line to then look more closely at his military record and examine the criticisms of his service.

McCain is certainly not hiding his military service, but that is not his entire platform. Unlike Kerry, who opened his DNC acceptance speech with a salute and a “Reporting for Duty!” line.

23

[quote]lixy wrote:
I am not attacking anyone. I just cannot understand the idea that the mere fact that a person who participated in a war (though invasion seems more appropriate) that achieved absolutely nothing but cause suffering and deaths, should not only be given credit ‘for serving his country’ but his military record should simply be ‘left alone’.
[/quote]

The North were the ones invading the soverign nation of South Vietnam. What are you going to tell us next, McCain poured napalm on babies? If you have no respect for our country, then stay the hell out of this.

24

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
The North were the ones invading the soverign nation of South Vietnam. [/quote]

Did they now?

When exactly was that? Before of after you sent thousands of troops?

25

The French were in Viet Nam long before the US was.

Thanks for playing.

26

[quote]rainjack wrote:
The French were in Viet Nam long before the US was. [/quote]

They were imperialistic scum and I, of all people here, should know about that.

Thing is, they aren’t in denial about it nor are they still trying to rationalize invading and bombing countries half way across the world.

27

[quote]lixy wrote:
rainjack wrote:
The French were in Viet Nam long before the US was.

They were imperialistic scum and I, of all people here, should know about that.

Thing is, they aren’t in denial about it nor are they still trying to rationalize invading and bombing countries half way across the world.[/quote]

Who is in denial? Who is rationalizing?

You are fucked up, lady.

28

[quote]tGunslinger wrote:
Also regarding Kerry, don’t forget that Kerry was running on a platform that was essentially “I was a brave soldier, and W was not!” That was honestly about the entirety of his campaign.

Thus, it was not too out of line to then look more closely at his military record and examine the criticisms of his service.

McCain is certainly not hiding his military service, but that is not his entire platform. Unlike Kerry, who opened his DNC acceptance speech with a salute and a “Reporting for Duty!” line.[/quote]

You make an excellent point. Unless he uses his service record as part of his campaign, it would be dishonorable to question it.

29

[quote]lixy wrote:

They were imperialistic scum and I, of all people here, should know about that.

Thing is, they aren’t in denial about it nor are they still trying to rationalize invading and bombing countries half way across the world.[/quote]

Isn’t it cute that the true “imperialists” were totalitarian communists, but we hear nary a peep out of you?

Vietnam was a messy affair, tough choices in a messy world - but there was nothing dishonorable about choosing sides in a contest against totalitarianism.

Shining a light on the dark corners of the ideological heroes of an Islamist-Progressist is always going to be a little painful. It’s part of growing up - but the trouble we all go through would make a lot more sense if you were fourteen. You’ve run out of the excuses of youth.

30

[quote]lixy wrote:
rainjack wrote:
The French were in Viet Nam long before the US was.

They were imperialistic scum and I, of all people here, should know about that.

Thing is, they aren’t in denial about it nor are they still trying to rationalize invading and bombing countries half way across the world.[/quote]

The French wanted their empire back. The Vietnamese actually declared independence with the US Constitution as a guide to establishing their country. The French, however, didn’t want to let go. For some inexplicable reason, the USA became convinced that the rebels in Vietnam were communists. We supported the French and the whole thing became one big exploding bag of shit.

Vietnam WAS one big fuck up all the way around. It probably is traceable back to Truman withdrawing support for the Chinese Nationalists in 1947 and letting communism into China.

31

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
tGunslinger wrote:
Also regarding Kerry, don’t forget that Kerry was running on a platform that was essentially “I was a brave soldier, and W was not!” That was honestly about the entirety of his campaign.

Thus, it was not too out of line to then look more closely at his military record and examine the criticisms of his service.

McCain is certainly not hiding his military service, but that is not his entire platform. Unlike Kerry, who opened his DNC acceptance speech with a salute and a “Reporting for Duty!” line.

You make an excellent point. Unless he uses his service record as part of his campaign, it would be dishonorable to question it. [/quote]

I think this crowd needs thicker sarcasm.

32

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Would love to hear those 32 ‘commercials’ that McCain made for the North Vietnamese murderers.

If this election isn’t a sham election put forth by the powers-that-be, then my name is Karl Marx and Hitler’s descendents are going to make me the Gauleiter of Cincinnati.[/quote]

How’re you doing today Karl?

33

[quote]
lixy wrote:
Bring forth arguments why you think McCain’s version is more credible than that of the other veteran.

Sloth wrote:
Us provide arguments? And the other veteran? The other veteran is repeating what anonymous sources told him, and nothing else. No evidence to actually back up what he was told by unverifiable sources . On the otherhand, McCain’s experience is documented. Nope, the burden of proof isn’t on our, nor McCain’s, shoulders.

lixy wrote:
Good. That is an argument.

Saying “leave his military record alone” because he “served his country” is not.

That was my point.[/quote]

This is a valid point.

However, it’s plain on it’s face that this is a cheap smear against McCain by someone who is either repeating rumor or making sh*t up. It doesn’t deserve further consideration.

34

[quote]lixy wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
The North were the ones invading the soverign nation of South Vietnam.

Did they now?

When exactly was that? Before of after you sent thousands of troops?[/quote]

Ah, before.

35

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
lixy wrote:
rainjack wrote:
The French were in Viet Nam long before the US was.

They were imperialistic scum and I, of all people here, should know about that.

Thing is, they aren’t in denial about it nor are they still trying to rationalize invading and bombing countries half way across the world.

The French wanted their empire back. The Vietnamese actually declared independence with the US Constitution as a guide to establishing their country. The French, however, didn’t want to let go. For some inexplicable reason, the USA became convinced that the rebels in Vietnam were communists. We supported the French and the whole thing became one big exploding bag of shit.

Vietnam WAS one big fuck up all the way around. It probably is traceable back to Truman withdrawing support for the Chinese Nationalists in 1947 and letting communism into China.

[/quote]

Wow, a man who knows history. No revisionist B.S. here.

36

[quote]lixy wrote:
rainjack wrote:
The French were in Viet Nam long before the US was.

They were imperialistic scum and I, of all people here, should know about that.

Thing is, they aren’t in denial about it nor are they still trying to rationalize invading and bombing countries half way across the world.[/quote]

Like you are rationalizing your hatred for the United States based on lies and half truths?

The North invaded the South, not vice versa. If you had any brains you would know the US did not invade North Vietnam.

37

Any bets on how fast this turns into an Iraq thread?

38

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
The Swift Boat Vets were speaking the truth. If men who were there have something to say, they deserve to be heard. The same is true for anyone who was with McCain.

The swift boat vets, and every other Vietnam Vet have every right to be pissed off about Kerry’s anti-war speech’s, especially his “war criminals” testimony. But with the Swift Boat Vets campaign you get a mixed bag, some of whom served with him and others who didn’t who only came out long after the fact to challenge the official record. And to counter that there were a good number of men who served with Kerry who came out in his defense.

In this case you’ve got a guy who admits that he never served with McCain, but who claims to know a lot of anonymous vets and pows who hate the guy. Fine, let them come forward, state who they are and how they claim to know what they know, otherwise their testimony is nothing but a cowardly smear.
[/quote]

Exactly.

39

[quote]lixy wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
The North were the ones invading the soverign nation of South Vietnam.

Did they now?

When exactly was that? Before of after you sent thousands of troops?[/quote]

Yes they did. Your lack of knowledge is appalling. Now piss off you low life piece of shit.

40

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
lixy wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
The North were the ones invading the soverign nation of South Vietnam.

Did they now?

When exactly was that? Before of after you sent thousands of troops?

Ah, before.[/quote]

Got a day or year for this alleged invasion?