John Murtha --- Traitor

"In case you missed the video on “I Love the '80s,” Rep. Murtha was caught on tape negotiating bribes with Arab sheiks during the FBI’s Abscam investigation in 1980. The Abscam investigation was conducted by Jimmy Carter’s Justice Department, not right-wing Republicans.

On tape, Murtha told the undercover FBI agent: “When I make a f***in’ deal I want to make sure that I know exactly what I’m doing and … what I’m sayin’ is, a few investments in my district …”

It is a profound and shocking fact that Murtha even showed up at this meeting, knowing he was going to be negotiating bribe money with Arabs."

http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/welcome.cgi

I’m so glad we now have an ethical Congress, Madam Speaker. You, Murtha, Hastings, Jefferson, on and on…will all one day face judgment by the American people.

And Dick Cheney had deals with Saddam Hussein.

Big fucking deal. I’m sorry that I have to be the one to tell you this HH, but politicians are corrupt. They are out for themselves, and you are a fool to think any other way.

Murtha has said that he and the House Democrat majority will now work to pull all the financial plugs from the military and place our troops in Iraq in extreme harm’s way. While advising that the Democrats will vote to defund our troops, Murtha said jubilantly: “They [our troops] won’t be able to continue. They won’t be able to do the deployment. They won’t have the equipment, they don’t have the training and they won’t be able to do the work!”

Note: The only thing missing from this unprecedented anti-American and ‘we can defeat the USA’ remark was a hearty laugh from Murtha and a video showing him gleefully rubbing his hands.

Douchebag!

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
And Dick Cheney had deals with Saddam Hussein.

Big fucking deal. I’m sorry that I have to be the one to tell you this HH, but politicians are corrupt. They are out for themselves, and you are a fool to think any other way.

[/quote]

THere was nothing corrupt about Cheney dealing with Saddam, though. He wasn’t receiving bribes in a hotel room, he was acting on behalf of the U.S.

Why isn’t this stuff trotted out when he is facing election?

Given the sources, Coulter and Nuthunter, I’m guessing that we are only getting half the story at best.

Coulter, for one, isn’t known for integrity with respect to quoting sources and using statements in context.

Any chance of getting full details on the issue from reputable sources? That would allow reasonable people to form their own opinions instead of having them served up ready made.

Sheep.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
And Dick Cheney had deals with Saddam Hussein.

Big fucking deal. I’m sorry that I have to be the one to tell you this HH, but politicians are corrupt. They are out for themselves, and you are a fool to think any other way.

[/quote]

I realize that they are out for themselves. That’s why our Constitution was designed to prevent these people from abusing their elective power. With the advent of a mixed economy though, the increased power of the federal government draws corrupt and evil people into government.

This is a big reason I favor a very small innocuous government. If our federal government was about as exciting as a post office in a small town in Iowa (for ex), the crooks couldn’t use it to abuse us.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Why isn’t this stuff trotted out when he is facing election?

Given the sources, Coulter and Nuthunter, I’m guessing that we are only getting half the story at best.

Coulter, for one, isn’t known for integrity with respect to quoting sources and using statements in context.

Any chance of getting full details on the issue from reputable sources? That would allow reasonable people to form their own opinions instead of having them served up ready made.

Sheep.[/quote]

Why do you always have to throw insults into your posts? I suggest you consult your physician.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
And Dick Cheney had deals with Saddam Hussein.

Big fucking deal. I’m sorry that I have to be the one to tell you this HH, but politicians are corrupt. They are out for themselves, and you are a fool to think any other way.

I realize that they are out for themselves. That’s why our Constitution was designed to prevent these people from abusing their elective power. With the advent of a mixed economy though, the increased power of the federal government draws corrupt and evil people into government.

This is a big reason I favor a very small innocuous government. If our federal government was about as exciting as a post office in a small town in Iowa (for ex), the crooks couldn’t use it to abuse us.

[/quote]

Have you noticed though that no matter who is elected and what they promise, the government still grows? Many people try to fight human nature, but I seldom hear of any winning.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
vroom wrote:
Why isn’t this stuff trotted out when he is facing election?

Given the sources, Coulter and Nuthunter, I’m guessing that we are only getting half the story at best.

Coulter, for one, isn’t known for integrity with respect to quoting sources and using statements in context.

Any chance of getting full details on the issue from reputable sources? That would allow reasonable people to form their own opinions instead of having them served up ready made.

Sheep.

Why do you always have to throw insults into your posts? I suggest you consult your physician.

[/quote]

Yeah, the “sheep/sheeple” thing is getting old too.

Time for a new punchline.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
And Dick Cheney had deals with Saddam Hussein.

Big fucking deal. I’m sorry that I have to be the one to tell you this HH, but politicians are corrupt. They are out for themselves, and you are a fool to think any other way.

I realize that they are out for themselves. That’s why our Constitution was designed to prevent these people from abusing their elective power. With the advent of a mixed economy though, the increased power of the federal government draws corrupt and evil people into government.

This is a big reason I favor a very small innocuous government. If our federal government was about as exciting as a post office in a small town in Iowa (for ex), the crooks couldn’t use it to abuse us.

[/quote]

That is not possible. This is a massive country, and if you want a strong federal government, then it’s going to be big.

Politicians rarely show any regard for the Constitution… your president has shown a consistent disdain for it all the time.

Again, every politician has side deals. When you catch them, you punish them…but don’t act all surprised. Christ.

Maybe I’m just jaded cause I’m from New Jersey, and here, if you’re not cheating, you’re not trying.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
And Dick Cheney had deals with Saddam Hussein.

Big fucking deal. I’m sorry that I have to be the one to tell you this HH, but politicians are corrupt. They are out for themselves, and you are a fool to think any other way.

I realize that they are out for themselves. That’s why our Constitution was designed to prevent these people from abusing their elective power. With the advent of a mixed economy though, the increased power of the federal government draws corrupt and evil people into government.

This is a big reason I favor a very small innocuous government. If our federal government was about as exciting as a post office in a small town in Iowa (for ex), the crooks couldn’t use it to abuse us.

[/quote]

And the heroes couldn’t use it to protect us.

Read “Jennifer Government”, it’s a book about capitalism taken to the level you like to blab about. Pick it up.

The fact is, if government was small, big business would simply “replace” it. And the crooks their are equally as bad, if not worse.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:

The fact is, if government was small, big business would simply “replace” it. And the crooks their are equally as bad, if not worse.

[/quote]

I agree. Although they already have, to an extent, because of how powerful they are.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
And Dick Cheney had deals with Saddam Hussein.

Big fucking deal. I’m sorry that I have to be the one to tell you this HH, but politicians are corrupt. They are out for themselves, and you are a fool to think any other way.

[/quote]

So true. But it is their business and that of the media to keep people misinformed. That way people like HH actually think there is a true alternative between the two parties.

First of all what he is proposing is simply a bad idea. Stay in or get out is the question. Congress should not micro manage combat operations. They can’t even manage themselves properly.

From the Washington Post:

Murtha Stumbles on Iraq Funding Curbs
Democrats Were Ill-Prepared for Unplanned Disclosure, Republican Attacks

By Jonathan Weisman and Lyndsey Layton
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, February 25, 2007; A05

The plan was bold: By tying President Bush’s $100 billion war request to strict standards of troop safety and readiness, Democrats believed they could grab hold of Iraq war policy while forcing Republicans to defend sending troops into battle without the necessary training or equipment.

But a botched launch by the plan’s author, Rep. John P. Murtha (Pa.), has united Republicans and divided Democrats, sending the latter back to the drawing board just a week before scheduled legislative action, a score of House Democratic lawmakers said last week.

“If this is going to be legislation that’s crafted in such a way that holds back resources from our troops, that is a non-starter, an absolute non-starter,” declared Rep. Jim Matheson (Utah), a leader of the conservative Blue Dog Democrats.

Murtha’s credentials as a Marine combat veteran, a critic of the war and close ally of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) were supposed to make him an unassailable spokesman for Democratic war policy. Instead, he has become a lightning rod for criticism from Republicans and members of his own party.

Freshman Rep. Joe Sestak (D-Pa.), a retired Navy admiral who was propelled into politics by the Iraq war, said Murtha could still salvage elements of his strategy, but Sestak, an outspoken war opponent, is “a bit wary” of a proposal that would influence military operations.

“I was recently in the military, and I have to speak from that experience,” Sestak said.

The story of Murtha’s star-crossed plan illustrates the Democratic Party’s deep divisions over the Iraq war and how the new House majority has yet to establish firm control over Congress. From the beginning, Murtha acted on his own to craft a complicated legislative strategy on the war, without consulting fellow Democrats. When he chose to roll out the details on a liberal, antiwar Web site on Feb. 15, he caught even Pelosi by surprise while infuriating Democrats from conservative districts.

Then for an entire week, as members of Congress returned home for a recess, Murtha refused to speak further. Democratic leaders failed to step into the vacuum, and Republicans relentlessly attacked a plan they called a strategy to slowly bleed the war of troops and funds. By the end of the recess, Murtha’s once promising strategy was in tatters.

Tom Andrews, a former House member and antiwar activist who helped Murtha with his Internet rollout, fumed: “The issue to me is, what is the state of the backbone of the Democratic Party? How will they respond to this counterattack? Republicans are throwing touchdown passes on this because the Democrats aren’t even on the field.”

Rep. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, a Florida Democrat and deputy whip, said party leaders are working on several Iraq proposals and that Murtha’s may survive. Finding consensus will be difficult but not impossible, she said. “This is a multi-step process,” she cautioned. “At least we’re debating the topic, not blindly following the president.”

Megan Grote, Murtha’s spokeswoman, said the congressman will not discuss Iraq policy until a news conference scheduled for the end of the week.

Murtha, 74, the powerful chairman of the House Appropriations subcommittee on defense, still holds a unique position on war policy, stemming from his roots as a veteran, his close ties to the uniformed military and his long-standing alliance with Pelosi. When he first publicly called for ending the war in 2005, he commanded the attention the party’s left and right wings.

The strategy he would craft was designed to calm the nerves of the party’s conservatives by fully funding the war, while placating the antiwar left by attaching so many strings to those funds that the president would not be able to deploy all the 21,500 additional combat troops he wanted.

To be sent to battle, troops would have to have had a year’s rest between combat tours. Soldiers in Iraq could not have their tours extended beyond a year there. And the Pentagon’s “stop-loss” policy, which prevents some officers from leaving the military when their service obligations are up, would end. Troops would have to be trained in counterinsurgency and urban warfare and be sent overseas with the equipment they used in training.

Pelosi endorsed the plan in concept but never the details. The plan surfaced Feb. 15 in an unorthodox Murtha appearance on MoveCongress.org, an antiwar Web site affiliated with the liberal activists of MoveOn.org.

It came the day before the House voted on a nonbinding resolution opposing Bush’s additional troop deployments that Democratic leaders had been touting as a major rebuke. Murtha dismissed that vote as he promoted his coming plans regarding the war spending bill. “This vote will be the most important vote in changing the direction on this war,” he said of his proposal. “This vote will limit the options of the president and should stop the surge.”

To many Democrats, that was not only impolitic, it was disloyal.

“He stepped all over Speaker Pelosi’s message of support for the troops,” said Rep. Jim Cooper (Tenn.). “That was not team play, to put it mildly.”

Even after that Web appearance, some senior Democratic aides say Murtha might well have been able to save his plan if he had quickly laid it out before the Democratic caucus and marshaled Democratic leaders behind a defense. Instead, the House recessed for a week, Murtha disappeared from the media, and Democratic leaders were silent, saying they could not discuss Iraq legislation because no real plan existed.

In the face of an unanswered Republican assault, the Democratic rank-and-file cracked – on the left and the right.

“While we’re all for troop readiness, we’re all for them having all the equipment they want,” Matheson, the Utah Democrat, said, “I’d be very concerned about doing anything that would hamstring resources and commanders on the ground.”

Indeed, Matheson and other Blue Dogs said the Democrats should concentrate on oversight hearings on Iraq policy, while refraining from binding legislation on the war.

The party’s newly elected Iraq veterans favor a more straightforward approach than Murtha, establishing a legal timetable for pulling U.S. troops out of Iraq, Sestak said. And the party’s antiwar left is no less unhappy with what they see as half measures from Murtha.

“Congress has the authority, and I know it has the responsibility, to get us out of there. And we should use every means possible,” said Rep. Lynn Woolsey (Calif.), a co-chairman of the Out of Iraq Caucus.

Rep. Barbara Lee (Calif.), another co-chairman who sits on the Appropriations Committee, is likely to try to tie the war spending bill to legislation demanding a withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq by a date certain, with the bill’s money available only for the safe withdrawal of the troops.

Such legislation was precisely what Murtha hoped to head off with his recent Internet appearance, said Rep. James P. Moran Jr. (D-Va.), who helped connect him with MoveCongress.org. And Moran still believes the appearance ultimately will work to the Democrats’ favor. “The cognoscenti is upset because he’s not under their control,” Moran said. “They would prefer he release his plan to a think tank, but he decided he wanted to communicate directly. He doesn’t trust the way the media filters what he says and does. He understands the power of being able to communicate.”

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
And Dick Cheney had deals with Saddam Hussein.

[/quote]

Did he solicit a bribe from him?

I am surprsed the Murtha video saw the light of day on anything other than Fox News.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Why isn’t this stuff trotted out when he is facing election?
[/quote]
Because the MSM likes him.

John Murtha (D-PA) was one of the Congressmen videotaped in an encounter with undercover FBI operatives.[6] Although never indicted or prosecuted, he was named an “unindicted co-conspirator” in the scandal. As such, he testified against Frank Thompson (D-NJ) and John Murphy (D-NY), the two Congressmen mentioned as participants in the deal at the same meeting. A short clip from the videotape shows Murtha stating “I’m not interested… at this point” in direct response to an offer of $50,000 in cash. [7]

While this statement has been a reference point for Murtha and others who proclaim his innocence, detractors point to the complete video, which offers a more ambiguous picture.[8] At issue are the indeterminacy of Murtha’s intentions along with the fact that he did not report the attempted bribe following the meeting, a violation of House Ethics Rules.

Critics cite the fact that Murtha would even meet with an Arab sheik for a potential bribe offer as suspicious activity. Murtha was also taped saying, “You know, we do business for a while, maybe I’ll be interested…” - causing many to question what role he may have played had the operation not been ended early due to media exposure.

In November 1980, the Justice Department announced that Murtha would not face prosecution for his part in the scandal. The U.S. Attorneys Office reasoned that Murtha’s intent was to obtain investment in his district. Full length viewing of the tape shows Murtha citing prospective investment opportunities that could return “500 or 1000” miners to work.

In July 1981, the House Ethics Committee also chose not to file charges against Congressman Murtha, following a mostly party line vote. The resignation later that day of Republican E. Barrett Prettyman, Jr., the panel’s special counsel, has been interpreted as an act of protest.[9]

Mr. Murtha remains prominent in Congress, and has been re-elected by his constituency 13 times over a course of 26 years.

This story has been far underreported. Why?

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Beowolf wrote:

The fact is, if government was small, big business would simply “replace” it. And the crooks their are equally as bad, if not worse.

I agree. Although they already have, to an extent, because of how powerful they are.[/quote]

Big Business is NOT powerful.

If they cannot get a government to force you to do something (only possible with a big government) they cannot do shit.

Government is gun-to-your-head powerful.

Big Business is serve-you-or-perish not powerful.

To utter again and again that them big companies are all evil and have way too much power does not makle it so.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
vroom wrote:
Why isn’t this stuff trotted out when he is facing election?

Given the sources, Coulter and Nuthunter, I’m guessing that we are only getting half the story at best.

Coulter, for one, isn’t known for integrity with respect to quoting sources and using statements in context.

Any chance of getting full details on the issue from reputable sources? That would allow reasonable people to form their own opinions instead of having them served up ready made.

Sheep.

Why do you always have to throw insults into your posts? I suggest you consult your physician.

[/quote]

That’s pretty rich, coming from you.

Who was the first to use the word traitor in this thread?
A hint: look at the title.

Traitor? That’s a strong word.

It’s not like he ratted on a CIA undercover agent or anything.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
And Dick Cheney had deals with Saddam Hussein.

Big fucking deal. I’m sorry that I have to be the one to tell you this HH, but politicians are corrupt. They are out for themselves, and you are a fool to think any other way.

I realize that they are out for themselves. That’s why our Constitution was designed to prevent these people from abusing their elective power. With the advent of a mixed economy though, the increased power of the federal government draws corrupt and evil people into government.

This is a big reason I favor a very small innocuous government. If our federal government was about as exciting as a post office in a small town in Iowa (for ex), the crooks couldn’t use it to abuse us.

And the heroes couldn’t use it to protect us.

Read “Jennifer Government”, it’s a book about capitalism taken to the level you like to blab about. Pick it up.

The fact is, if government was small, big business would simply “replace” it. And the crooks their are equally as bad, if not worse.

[/quote]

Capitalists don’t have police/military power to enforce their will. However, in a mixed economy, they can buy influence with a politician and gain power to abuse us.

The best way to prevent capitalists, or anyone, from corrupting a government is to make it simply outside the government’s province to interfere in the individual and economic life. Keep the government small: Military, judiciary, police. No other functions allowed, or we’re simply opening a Pandora’s Box (which we have already of course).

Someday, this system must collapse of its own weight, like the Ming Empire. The country will dissolve into ‘robber gangs’ and warlords. The currency will become worthless first, then rule by force will be initiated. Then comes the complete chaos. Not a bright future…