Mayweather's UFC Comments

Igor Vovchanchyn

[quote]OMC wrote:
Fastest most damaging hands after tyson I have seen is Vitor Belfort…he arrive as a boxer, so much so he didn’t even bother to go barefoot…fast forward to his fight against Marvin Eastman…evolution that were required of his skills.

WhiteFlash wrote:

You’re obviously a thai boxer, so I see your biased. No thai boxer [or UFC “striker”] I’ve ever seen has near the power that Mayweather has. I’ve always believed that if you took a mid level boxer with good power and tought him takedown defenses and the like he’d destroy any mma practitioner. Their hands are just plain too hard and fast. Add in the 4oz gloves and you’d have some ugly fuckin’ knockouts.

I politely disagree with some of your statement. If you put him in a ring with a Thai Boxer or someone who could use his legs the reach advantage is taken away. Also, I don’t care how heavy your hands are my kicks land with more force. I think that Mayweather would get destroyed no matter who he fought in the UFC at the new lightweight level.

[/quote]

[quote]DrVonNostrand wrote:
Nishijima made K-1/MMA fighter Mark Hunt look like a clown rather than one of the most dangerous strikers in MMA.

I talked up Hunt as a iron-chinned bomber, only to see him struggle to put down a boxer who weighed 100lbs less than him. Yes, the same man who gave Fedor one hell of a fight took nearly 20 minutes to stop a cruiserweight boxer who had no other skills besides heart.
[/quote]

But Hunt admitted he did not take that fight seriously and barely trained for the fight. Hence he was in horrible shape. If Hunt had been in the kind of shape he was in when he fought Fedor or Crocop the fight would have been over much more quickly. I am not trying to take anything away from Nishijima’s performance, it was clearly a great fight, but Nishijima was not giving Hunt any trouble at all.

I can’t believe this “debate” still rages.

Some people claim the earth is flat. Is this debatable, too?

Not every geek (or even most geeks) who “do MMA” would beat a Golden Gloves fighter. But at the highest levels, it’s well-established that a boxer would not stand a chance.

I have no skin in this game (never boxed, wrestled, or competed in martial arts), but I had to comment because this argument just seems so absurd.

I looked up Mayweather’s boxing record here:

He hasn’t had an early round knockout since 1998. Since then, his shortest bouts have been two 6th round TKO’s in 2005. And half of his 18 fights from 1999 to today have gone the distance.

Do the people on here really think he can “one-punch” all these MMA guys when they try to take it to the ground?

Vitor Belfort wasn’t a boxer. He didn’t arrive as a boxer. He was a Gracie trained BJJ trained black belt who also knew how to box.

In fact the story of Belfort’s first MMA fight…

Vitor Belfort Vs Jon Hess (Superbrawl 2: 11th October, 1996.)

First, some background on Hess and what led to the fight.

Extracted from Clyde Gentry’s excellent, ?No Holds Barred: Ultimate Fighting And The Martial Arts Revolution? which can be bought via Amazon (among others.)

http://www.amazon.com/No-Holds-Barred-Ulti…TF8&s=books

Anyway, the extract which starts by describing Hess’s fight at UFC 5…

[quote]Another first round match produced one of the few examples of serious foul play in the UFC. The 6ft 7in, 295lb John Hess outweighed Texan Andy ?The Hammer? Anderson by 60lbs and was nine inches taller. The week of the fight, Hess had been in bully mode, pushing people and berating them with tough talk. His manager even challenged commentator Jeff Blatnick to a fight. He believed strongly in Hess’s fighting style, which he dubbed Scientific Aggressive Fighting Technology of America. Anderson was a self made millionaire who owned several businesses, including the Totally Nude Steakhouse in Longview, Texas; the place became so popular, yet offensive, that the city actually paid Anderson to shut it down. He was also a sixth-degree black belt in tae kwon do, and agreed to donate his UFC fight purse to one of three charities: School for the Blind, Feed the Children, or a cerebral palsy foundation.

As the match got underway, Hess lumbered toward Anderson throwing sloppy slaps with little technique. ?Instead of hitting, he scratched my eyes while we were standing,? said Anderson. ?Then he continued to scratch and hit me. I finally got him on the ground and got on top of him and he shoved one thumb into my eye so that I could barely see. Then he bit a chunk out of my hand, grabbed the back of my head, and shoved a thumb into my eye, popping it out of socket. I lost twenty percent of the peripheral vision in my right eye.? McCarthy stepped into stop the bout at 1:23; Anderson was visibly disgusted when Hess’s hand was raised. Hess was fined thousands of dollars for his dirty deeds, which was paid to Anderson and given to the School for the Blind. Backstage, Anderson found Hess balling his eyes out. He was exhausted, and since his hand was broken, could not continue.

A year and a half later, Hess chastised the UFC as a publicity stunt, opinions were due to appear in Inside Kung Fu magazine. To prove his point, he picked an ?easy? fight with an 18-year-old jiu-jitsu stylist. The match lasted 15 seconds. The jiu-jitsu man was Vitor Belfort who demolished Hess with super-fast punches.[/quote]

A Vitor Belfort quote on his fight with Jon Hess.

[quote]What do you remember of your first fight, in the ring at Super Brawl, in Hawaii?

Belfort: I remember that, at the weigh in, Magic Johnson and Shaquille O’neil bet a rolex on the fight. One of them even asked me how I could beat the big guy, and Carlson responded with a classic, “It’s no problem because the king of the jungle is the lion, not the elephant!” Only the winner would take the 10,000 dollar prize. It was a savage time, no holds were barred, and Jon Hess said he would stick a finger in my eye. I was 18 years old, I was terrified (laughs). But Carlson made me feel absurdly confident, and told my opponent: “You want to go in armed? Take a knife, we will let you!”[/quote]

And the fight…

It has bad video quality and there’s no sound. The clip is only 35 seconds long though. It’s a brutal destruction job. To use a colloquialism, nigga got fucked up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGm4io45z8E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGm4io45z8E

Finally, two postscripts.

First, a 2005 Sherdog interview with Jon Hess.

From…

http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles.asp?n_id=2416

[quote]Big Words from ?Big? Jon Hess

February 10, 2005
by Traci Ratzloff

?Given the chance to fight Vitor Belfort again, I will knock him out faster than he did me,? said ?Big? Jon Hess, referring to his second?and last?MMA fight, which took place at SuperBrawl 2. ?If I am allowed to return, I will be world champ!?

The 35-year-old San Diego native made his mixed martial arts debut in 1995?s Ultimate Fighting Championship 5 against third dan Andy Anderson. Hess easily won by technical knockout after only slightly more than one minute.

Said to be one of the dirtiest bouts in UFC history, Hess sees it differently: ?I would not agree that this fight was a dirty fight as the UFC billed itself as no rules. If there are no rules then how can you break them? It was a true fight in that Anderson was trying to hurt me, and I hurt him first.?

Hess first became interested in MMA when he saw UFC 4, which he ?thought was a joke,? particularly Brazilian jiu-jitsu master Royce Gracie, whom he said he ?could defeat very easily.?

During a 10-minute workout with Art Davie, Hess said he displayed his ?exceptional hand-to-hand skill and was allowed into the UFC.? With Lew Hicks and his new wife, Julie, in his corner, Hess entered the cage in 1995 for the first time.

After the bout with Anderson ended, an overweight Hess forfeited his position in the tournament. ?Two months prior to the UFC, I quit smoking (two packs a day), and I put on 40 pounds of fat,? he said. ?I was eating very unhealthy and drinking too much. After destroying Anderson, I was gassed and my right forearm and wrist were injured from striking Anderson in the side of his head. I didn?t think I could defeat Severn with just my left and without any energy.?

A year and a half went by and MMA enthusiasts had not heard a word from Hess. ?I believe that I was blacklisted by Art Davie,? he insisted. ?I was not allowed to return, and I could get no fights anywhere.?

After trying for 14 months, Hess grew extremely frustrated and quit trying and training. In October 1996, however, his disbarment from the sport ended when he received a call stating Royce Gracie?s brother ?Victor? wanted to fight him in four days at SuperBrawl 2. Hess had challenged Gracie after UFC 5, but nothing ever surfaced.

?After my bad experience in UFC 5,? recalled Hess, ?I got in shape to show the world that I was the best fighter, so I challenged Royce Gracie, and he was unwilling to fight me?probably because he knew that I would kick his rear end.?

When he received the call, Hess replied that he was no longer in shape, especially for a fight that would occur in four days, but was told he was being ?called out.?

?Because I had challenged Royce the previous year, I agreed,? he said.

Entering SuperBrawl, Hess quickly learned that the ?Victor? he had anticipated was in reality Vitor Belfort. In 12 seconds, Hess was knocked out, suffering a concussion.

?I believe Belfort was using anabolic steroids prior to and before our match,? Hess stated. ?Given the chance to fight him again, I will knock him out faster than he did me. I was sick and in the worst shape of my life, and I couldn?t overcome his steroid strength. However, Royce did get the last laugh, and I paid a heavy price of humiliation and a concussion.?

The MMA world has not seen Hess since. ?I had to get my life squared away before I could give fighting my best effort,? he said, ?so I retired after I humiliated myself against Belfort.?

Known for being the co-creator of Scientific Aggressive Fighting Techniques of America (SAFTA), a hand-to-hand martial art, Hess trained with Jerry Peterson, whom he believes ?is the smartest hand-to-hand instructor in the world. He is a great man, and I learned a lot about life and how to handle situations from him.?

Today, Hess spends his time playing sports and religiously lifting weights, planning for a career, once again, somewhere in the fight world.

Going back to the basics of training, Hess said he is now a ?considerably more dangerous man today than I was back then. I am also more humble and smarter. My punching power has increased exponentially, and I have an 82-inch reach.?

Weighing his options between a career in pro-boxing or MMA, he confides, ?I?ll either return [to the cage] by summer, or I?ll stay retired for good. I am confident in my abilities, as I believe that I could defeat Royce Gracie, Vitor Belfort and Frank Mir. I would be willing to take any of those matches, winner-take-all. I wouldn?t do that if there was a chance I would lose.?

Unwilling to fight again in smaller venues, Hess focuses on the UFC. ?There is no one at the UFC who I couldn?t defeat, but I don?t know if I am still banned as they have new owners.?

Though he has yet to step in the cage, Hess is well aware of how the sport has changed. In his own words he finds ?MMA has evolved and devolved at the same time. It has evolved in that the majority of fighters are better and more well rounded. At the same time, it has devolved in that the champs and better fighters are less dangerous and of lesser skill. Frank Mir is an example of this devolution. Rulon Gardner is an example of the evolution.?

?I believe the old UFC was more exciting,? he continued. ?With all of the cross training now, many of the UFC fighters seem to be Ken Shamrock clones. I think Mir is an example of these clones, and I would defeat him in less than 25 seconds.?

While he continues to train, preparing to show the MMA world just who he is and what he can do, only time will tell if fight fans will have the opportunity to see ?Big? Jon Hess live up to his big words?an event that is sure to be unforgettable.[/quote]

Second…

Vitor Belfort Vs Tank Abbott (UFC 13: The Ultimate Force. 30th May, 1997.)

search/belfort/video/ xiho1_vitor-belfort-vs-tank-abbott]http://
www.dailymotion.com/visited/search/…-vs-tank-abbott

I just think it’s great for UFC that Mayweather is even bothering to talk shit about them when he’s on the verge of one of the biggest fights in boxing. Can only be good press for the UFC, no?

I think it’s pretty obvious that Mayweather would get beaten down if he went in there with just pure boxing. A punchers chance is all he’d have. I mean, i don’t give a shit how quick he is. How is he gonna land a punch when Sherk just shoots low for an ankle pick? As soon as it hits the ground it’s game over. The only thing on Maywetahers side is that the fight starts standing.

Even with a few months training he would not be the favourite in a fight against Sherk. Look at Cro Cop. Athletically he is awesome and a very good kick boxer. Probably not as gifted as Mayweather but their skills are comparable.

If Cro Cops first MMA fight had been gainst someone like Fedor or Nog he’d have been destroyed. He was in fact beaten by Nog in his 10th fight as soon as it went to the ground. Cro Cop is dangerous because he is a better striker than everyone else and his takedown defence is awesome. The key thing for Mayweather is takedown defence.

Boxers always struggle with kicks in K-1 but to be fair we have always seen boxers competing past their best (Botha et al).

There are no boxers with anything like good records in MMA but again we haven’t seen the best. Nishijima is perhaps the best boxer to have competed in MMA but he’s been dominated in every fight except Hunt, but even then he never looked like winning.

In his 3 subsequent fights he’s been beaten in less than 4 minutes. This includes a fight against Cyborg in which he was battered standing before being choked out.

This thread is hilarious. I remember back when it was Tank Abbot calling out Mike Tyson. Now it’s Floyd calling out MMA fighters. Amazing who is on the short end of the stick crying for attention in only 10 short years.

HBO begins covering UFC this fall. Floyd vs Oscar is the last mega fight to ever happen in boxing unless the sport fixes itself. They are doing everything they can to try and get the spotlight and milk it for all it is worth.

[quote]DrVonNostrand wrote:
Nishijima made K-1/MMA fighter Mark Hunt look like a clown rather than one of the most dangerous strikers in MMA.

I talked up Hunt as a iron-chinned bomber, only to see him struggle to put down a boxer who weighed 100lbs less than him. Yes, the same man who gave Fedor one hell of a fight took nearly 20 minutes to stop a cruiserweight boxer who had no other skills besides heart.[/quote]

He didn’t look like a complete and total putz against a guy who hadn’t trained for 3 months and put on 45 pounds of samoan blubber since his last fight. Simply staying alive wassn’t enough to impress me of his skills. That was Hunt’s main talent as well, his boxing and technical skills were never that crisp but he never fucking quit and the fans ate him up.

Nishijima never even had Hunt, who has essentially having a fatman heart attack the whole fight, in any kind of danger. Then the vaunted Nish got dropped by Cyborg Santos, whose muay thai skills consist mostly of being an insane mother fucker with no regard for his own safety. Nish is not a good example at all here.

Jeremy Williams, however, has shown that a top notch boxer can pick up some skills pretty quick with hard training and apply them in MMA. Hell, he keeps tapping everybody because they are scared shitless to stand with him.

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Mayweather is an amazing, world-class athlete. Genetically he’s almost certainly a better athlete than the UFC guys, as it would make sense that boxing, which (for now) commands a much bigger purse than MMA would attract more top-notch athletes.

With that said, he’s never trained for MMA, at least not to anybody’s knowledge. So to say he could step in and take the UFC crown is foolish. Could Ronnie Coleman or Ed Coan win the World’s Strongest Man right now? No way. Do they have the genetic potential where if they spent the time training for it, they could be one of the best? Sure.

Mayweather is an athletic freak who could be a UFC champ if he put the time in to learn. As already mentioned, he’s very fast and has freakish punching power. But…he’s not Neo and he’s not going to send somebody flying across the ring with one punch. Eventually he’d get clinched and taken to the mat and he’d be done.[/quote]

Great Post!

I’m pretty sure they settled this in UFC 1.

You know… thats the thing about this guy Mayweather. He talks too much out of his ass.

I seriously want Oscar to beat the living sh*t out of him.

[quote]lucasa wrote:
John Smith wrote:

Why is Floyd the best at 4 different weight classes, while Sherk is the best at pinning half-naked men?

So in a sport composed of dancing in frilly silk shorts, slapping each other with mitts on, to win a purse and a belt, Mayweather is a champion four times over? Wow.

People break hands punching people in the face all the time. I have yet to hear of someone breaking their knee on someone’s face.[/quote]

If you think fat, sweaty fat guys pinning each other in the missionary position is less gay than two people punching each other in the face, then I no longer accept your opinion as that of a mans.

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
I can’t believe this “debate” still rages.

Some people claim the earth is flat. Is this debatable, too?

Not every geek (or even most geeks) who “do MMA” would beat a Golden Gloves fighter. But at the highest levels, it’s well-established that a boxer would not stand a chance.[/quote]

Not necessarily… a very good boxer can beat an MMA fighter.

Look at Lidell’s last fight against Couture… it didn’t go to ground, he caught him with a punch and then jumped on him and finished him. Every time that Couture tried to close in and grapple he ate shots and had to back-off.

Or how about Couture vs. Silva… if Couture had the punching power of a Fedor or Crocop that overhead right would have knock Silva out cold and that would have been the end of the fight.

The thing is that there aren’t all that many boxers with great knock-out power; many mostly use their jabs to out-point their opponents.

A guy like Tyson, in his prime, could have had some success against MMA fighters, just because if he hit you, you’d likely go down (like Lidell multiplied by a factor of ten).

Sorry I should have been more specific. I meant simply that he vastly favoured his hands and when he realised that wasn’t enough he set about expanding upon the rest of his skills. ergo…good hands=not good enough

[quote]Mr90210 wrote:

[/quote]

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
This thread is hilarious. I remember back when it was Tank Abbot calling out Mike Tyson. Now it’s Floyd calling out MMA fighters. Amazing who is on the short end of the stick crying for attention in only 10 short years.

HBO begins covering UFC this fall. Floyd vs Oscar is the last mega fight to ever happen in boxing unless the sport fixes itself. They are doing everything they can to try and get the spotlight and milk it for all it is worth.[/quote]

I love boxing but after May 5th I’m afraid it will continue its slow, sad decline into irrelevance. It’s not real surprising to hear people like Jim Lampley and fighters like PBF badmouthing MMA. They didn’t talk shit 5 years ago. But now they feel threatened. They should.

Wow. What a mouth on that fucker. I never understand why guys go here with this, because it’s like asking which would win in a fight, a shark or a wolverine. Well, both are fucking vicious, but it depends if it’s in the water or in the woods.

That being said, from the UFC that I’ve watched, a lot of them are shitty boxers. Toe to toe, Mayweather dominates, and with four ounce gloves, puts his opponent in the hospital with a shattered face.

Mayweather would also be a better candidate against a UFC guy, because his footwork is unbelievable and he doesn’t tire out- which makes me believe that he would be fast enough to not get caught in a clinch and go to the ground. He’s smart enough to know to stay off the ground, and to try and knock the fucker out in the first three minutes so he doesn’t get put in that position.

You put a brawler in there, a Micky Ward type, and he’d get killed because he gets so close, which would be great for the UFC guy. Mayweather is a different story though. Who would I go with? I don’t know… but Mayweather is definitly a guy who could win.

It’s funny when they do this shit. Mayweather is a world class fighter, so it’s no wonder that he thinks he could take all comers. It’s just like how every little fucker who takes a couple classes in BJJ thinks he can win a streetfight against everyone at the bar. Same mentality. Being as the UFC is something of a fad, I’m not surprised that a boxer would look at it as the bastard child.

That all being said, I like boxing far more than UFC, because it is indeed the sweet science. If I wanted to see a street fight, I could just go to the bar.

[quote]John Smith wrote:

If you think fat, sweaty fat guys pinning each other in the missionary position is less gay than two people punching each other in the face, then I no longer accept your opinion as that of a mans. [/quote]

You’re questioning my masculinity? You’re the one who thinks that once the guy on top passes guard he probably just wants to cuddle.

Either;

A.) You watch too much freaky gay porn.

B.) Are incapable of distinguishing between fighting and sex.

C.) Both of the Above.

It’s your choice. In any event, you are clearly incapable of contributing intellectually to this or any other MMA discussion.

Let Mayweather punch a couple of guys in warmups with the 4 oz. gloves, let him see that he can’t launch his hands at 1,000 mph and land on everybody’s off button 100% of the time (as if he could do it before).

He’ll throw a hand that’ll land on somebody’s forearm or shoulder or the crown of their skull, or someone will land a kick before Mayweather can get his range, and then he’ll learn a lesson or two.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

That being said, from the UFC that I’ve watched, a lot of them are shitty boxers. Toe to toe, Mayweather dominates, and with four ounce gloves, puts his opponent in the hospital with a shattered face.[/quote]

Of all the people I expected to understand this from the other side. The gloves are, first and foremost, to protect the boxer’s hands (and Boxer’s fracture is still common) and that any speed “lost” from heavier gloves is easily regained with training.

The only way they protect the head/brain is that they allow you to take 200 punches to the head rather than 25-50. If it were merely to protect the head, padded helmets would be all the rage and we’d be back bare-fisted fighting (Daniel Mendoza is the true father of the real science).

Moreover, while you may gain more power transfer with smaller gloves, you lose the shielding that larger gloves provide.

I 100% agree, toe-to-toe in the ring, Mayweather’s got them beat. But there are just too many variables in MMA and too many ways for those variables to be accounted for to think that because you’re the master of boxing, you’re a master of MMA.

It’s not a street fight. Street fights involve pool cues, boots, being outnumbered, bricks, tire irons, brass knuckles, knives, etc. I understand some people well-versed in homosexual male sex say it bears some resemblence, so I guess it could be confusing. But boxing is too far removed from any sort of real fighting to be anything but an abstract theoretical science.

Royce Gracie (chiefly) established the UFC as a science, anybody who hadn’t studied for a decade or wasn’t talented enough to beat someone who had studied that long didn’t study professionally much longer.

It’s a paradigm shift of the sweet science.

Good post lucasa.

I would love to see a Sherk - Mayweather fight.

A few observations:

  • MMA striking does seem sloppier - and it is. However, because of glove and rule differences, there are more striking options with the fists in MMA. There is also far less defensive head movement in MMA (see below) - which provides different stiking oppurtunities.

  • Bobbing, weaving and slipping are a boxer’s bread and butter - but far more dangerous in MMA. Repeated lowering of the head to evade strikes sets a fighter up for the thai clinch, knees and take downs.

  • The smaller MMA gloves are harder to block than boxing gloves. This, together with less head movement (see above) lends itself to some different blocking and other defensive techniques.

A talented boxer could transition his striking game for MMA, but he would need to make to adjustments based on the differing nature of the game.

Then, he’d need to get a clinching, sprawling and ground game.

It’s very hard to master all the areas of MMA. There are so many ways to lose a fight in MMA and the recent string of upsets prove that.

IMO, one of the best all-around fighters in GSP. He can do it all - and do it all very well. However, Sera’s long range right hook/overhand with the side of his fist (a punch generally not seen in boxing) went around GSP’s “chicken wing” block and caught him on the back of the head. GSP never recovered. That’s all it takes in MMA.

How much money would Mayweather make in his fights if he said, “mmmm I don’ know if I could take on an mma fighter or not.”?
How much money would he make if he said “I’ll whip their ass”?

FightinIrish said it best, woods or water.

Football players think they make the best atheletes in any sport. Basketball players think the same, bodybuilders think their strength allows them to overcome any lack of skill in any sport.

These things may be true in amature sports, but when it comes to professional elite athletic events sports skills don’t transfer like that. Hell, if a boxer trains even a tad bit wrong a #12 ranked boxer can beat a #1.