[quote]lucasa wrote:
And to the idiots saying Mayweather could learn a some sprawl or ground game and do pretty well, I say bullshit.
[/quote]
I’d just like to add to this; if he learned to sprawl or tried to develop a ground game, he would moving away from being a “boxer” in the purest sense, and this would simply be proving that a boxer couldn’t win in MMA. A boxer-turned-MMA fighter could, but not a boxer.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
If Matt Hughes gets ko’d by St. Pierre he’s gonna lose his head by someone with 12-16oz power, not just 4 [not to take anything away from St. Pierre]. I’m sure if the money’s good enough he’d be down, but as is why take a pay cut?
[/quote]
Poor example, St Pierre’s wrestling is very good and the very reason Hughes couldn’t get the fight to the ground. Comparing GSP’s ability to control where the fight takes place to Mayweather’s ability to do the same is completely misguided.
A novice to wrestling is not going to join the game and be able to stop Matt Hughes from taking them down, Hughes has spent his entire life wrestling and you’re expecting a guy to pick that up in a few years? Try a lifetime to develop that aspect.
To everyone who quoted my first post and took it to the heart… I have a second!!! Oh no!!! He might say something that hurts the feelings of others…
Anyways, answer me this. Why does Floyd get paid millions, while Sherk gets paid thousands? Why is Floyd the best at 4 different weight classes, while Sherk is the best at pinning half-naked men? Why does Floyd get HBO and SHOtime cover, while Sherk doesn’t?
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I would be willing to bet that the gangly, monkey-armed Mayweather would be tapping out before he hits the ground if someone were to shoot on him.
I’d be willing to bet Mayweather would backpeddle and light up anyone who tried to shoot on him. And to what Thai bxr said, I fully agree that no ones punch can match the power of a kick, but you’d have to get that kick.
I’ve watched a shitload of thai boxing matches [never participated, but boxed when I was younger] and the first thing I noticed was the severe lack of power in their hands. They swing [not throw] wildly until they clinch and then knee the fuck outta one another. I firmly believe a mid level boxer with knockout power would detonate on any mma event provided he trained his take down defense.[/quote]
Maybe, but it makes it awfully hard to move when you’ve got a baseball sized welt on the side of your knee. That’s pain a lot of boxers know nothing about. And it’s especially bad for someone who likes to be mobile.
Re: an earlier comment–Too broad of a brush. “Any UFC fighter” huh? Mayweather would be KILLED by CroCop’s LHK. Maybe you meant just in his weightclass. I’m with rainjack on this one–one dimension gets you eaten alive.
Mayweather has extremely deadly hands, far more so than anyone at his weightclass in UFC/Pride, BUT nothing else. If you can weather the storm, or slip it, you’ll destroy him on the ground, or in the muay thai clinch.
[quote]John Smith wrote:
To everyone who quoted my first post and took it to the heart… I have a second!!! Oh no!!! He might say something that hurts the feelings of others…
Anyways, answer me this. Why does Floyd get paid millions, while Sherk gets paid thousands? Why is Floyd the best at 4 different weight classes, while Sherk is the best at pinning half-naked men? Why does Floyd get HBO and SHOtime cover, while Sherk doesn’t?[/quote]
Oh my bad, I guess we all forgot the most important aspect of a fighter, the guy who gets paid more and shows up on the SHOtime cover…thanks for putting together that well thought out argument.
By your argument Rakim was not nearly the performer Vanilla Ice was in his heyday
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Work on reading comprehension. I didn’t say any boxer, I said Mayweather. I have as good a clue as you do boss, maybe more as I’ve actually fought in the ring [granted it’s been awhile]. [/quote]
My comprehension is fine - but I think it a little funny that a boxing guy telling anyone to work on reading-anything.
You first said you never said, nor implied. Now you aren’t denying it, only pissing an moaning over my choice of wording.
Go figure.
[quote]If Matt Hughes gets ko’d by St. Pierre he’s gonna lose his head by someone with 12-16oz power, not just 4 [not to take anything away from St. Pierre]. I’m sure if the money’s good enough he’d be down, but as is why take a pay cut?
[/quote]
I do believe that the fatal blow to Hughes came from GSP’s feet - something that Monkey Arms will be introduced to in the octagon as well.
But you just reinforce my statement that Mayweather is all mouth. Now you want to take over the puss talk for him.
White has already promised to make it worth Monkey Arms while. It’s put up or shut up time for your idol. My money is on shut up. Where’s yours?
This has already been settled when Tommy ‘The Machine Gun’, a champion boxer in his prime, got his ass kicked by an over-the-hill (but more well-rounded) fighter Rocky Balboa. Case closed.
Seriously though, I don’t think it’s much of an argument. I don’t care how good of a boxer you are, you’re not going to knock someone out from your back. And unless you can defend yourself against the takedowns of world-class grapplers, that’s exactly where you’ll end up.
That being said, Mayweather certainly has the potential to be the best in the world at any fighting sport – but until he gets years of relevant training under his belt, he’d best stay in his current sport.
[quote]slimjim wrote:
John Smith wrote:
To everyone who quoted my first post and took it to the heart… I have a second!!! Oh no!!! He might say something that hurts the feelings of others…
Anyways, answer me this. Why does Floyd get paid millions, while Sherk gets paid thousands? Why is Floyd the best at 4 different weight classes, while Sherk is the best at pinning half-naked men? Why does Floyd get HBO and SHOtime cover, while Sherk doesn’t?
Oh my bad, I guess we all forgot the most important aspect of a fighter, the guy who gets paid more and shows up on the SHOtime cover…thanks for putting together that well thought out argument.
By your argument Rakim was not nearly the performer Vanilla Ice was in his heyday [/quote]
Glad we cleared that one up, sweet heart.
Striking in mma is different than striking in boxing. How hard is this to understand? You strike differently when you have the possibility of getting taken down and/or recieve/give kicks elbows etc. Yes it looks sloppier than boxing.
Liddell even said it took him a few years to fine tune his striking for mma.
Only practice boxing…you’ll be very good at boxing.
Practice multiple disciplines you’ll be more of a generalist.
Look for Floyd not to have such amazing striking in the octagon as there would be too much unfamilar to him. Not use to the takedown, not use to getting kicks, not use to the clinch, elbows, subs, gnp. The whole stance of an mma fighter is different and I’d bet it would take him longer to find his range. Time he wouldn’t have. MMA fights start and end a lot quicker than boxing matches on average.
Of course if he spends several months to a year+ cross-training then it’s a moot point as he would then be a mixed martial artist.
In a mma bout:
mma > boxer
In a boxing match:
boxer > mma
Very simple.
Floyd is just saying this because mma is growing faster than boxing.
I truly hope he is so arrogant as to go into the octagon with only boxing at his disposal.
Eh its at lightweight level dude.
Even if it was just limited to takedowns I’d still say mayweather couldn’t win simply because of leg kicks. High kicks can be blocked easily unless delivered with huge force i.e Crocop.
Consider also that many UFC fighters are accomplished boxers at amateur level…several have won golden gloves if I remember correctly.
[quote]John Smith wrote:
Floyd would bang any UFC fighter you put him against. UFC fighters are fat, slow, and sloppy.
Just because Floyd is a top boxer, it doesn’t mean he can’t or doesn’t know how to wrestle.[/quote]
Fastest most damaging hands after tyson I have seen is Vitor Belfort…he arrive as a boxer, so much so he didn’t even bother to go barefoot…fast forward to his fight against Marvin Eastman…evolution that were required of his skills.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
You’re obviously a thai boxer, so I see your biased. No thai boxer [or UFC “striker”] I’ve ever seen has near the power that Mayweather has. I’ve always believed that if you took a mid level boxer with good power and tought him takedown defenses and the like he’d destroy any mma practitioner. Their hands are just plain too hard and fast. Add in the 4oz gloves and you’d have some ugly fuckin’ knockouts.
I politely disagree with some of your statement. If you put him in a ring with a Thai Boxer or someone who could use his legs the reach advantage is taken away. Also, I don’t care how heavy your hands are my kicks land with more force. I think that Mayweather would get destroyed no matter who he fought in the UFC at the new lightweight level.
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[quote]Thai_Bxr wrote:
Djwlfpack wrote:
It all depends on if Mayweather worked on takedown defense or any kind of ground game to accurately judge how well he’d do. It would also depend on who he was matched up against.
Put him up against any striker in the UFC and he’d tear them apart. But, put him in there with a guy like Matt Hughes who could close the distance quick and score a takedown, he’d be in trouble.
I politely disagree with some of your statement. If you put him in a ring with a Thai Boxer or someone who could use his legs the reach advantage is taken away. Also, I don’t care how heavy your hands are my kicks land with more force. I think that Mayweather would get destroyed no matter who he fought in the UFC at the new lightweight level.
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I diagree… if you can dodge a flurry of jobs, you can dodge a kick.
Good boxers pay a lot of attention to how their opponents are standing (how much weight is on the front/back foot), how they’re leaning, the position of the hips… to get an idea of where a punch is coming and how much force is being put into it.
The problem would be getting out of a thai clinch… if his opponents covers up well and gets in close and locks on a clinch, Mayweather is in a lot of trouble.
Also if he goes to the ground, he’d be toast.
I can’t stand Mayweather, and i hope de la hoya knocks the shit out of him cause its looking like he might be the only one in boxing who has a chance to do it.
however as much as i dislike Mayweather you can’t take away how great he is. i think he would do well in the UFC. see mayweather would go in with an advantage over most who enter MMA. he’s already in supurb condition, knows how to punch (unlike most in the UFC)and all boxers know how to take hits. grapplers and wrestlers aren’t that accustomed to it.
you put a wrestler/grappler with mayweather and as soon as he goes to charge in like they do, mayweather would land a hard clean shot, match over. most of the strikers in MMA are sloppy and slow compared to his hand speed.most fighters in the UFC have a base whether its wrestling, boxing, karate, whatever, but they had to learn new things outside their comfort zone to compensate. why would mayweather not be able to do that?
just cause it seems impossible to you don’t mean its impossible for him.
[quote]John Smith wrote:
Why is Floyd the best at 4 different weight classes, while Sherk is the best at pinning half-naked men?[/quote]
So in a sport composed of dancing in frilly silk shorts, slapping each other with mitts on, to win a purse and a belt, Mayweather is a champion four times over? Wow.
People break hands punching people in the face all the time. I have yet to hear of someone breaking their knee on someone’s face.
Anyone want to imagine (name your favorite heavyweight boxer) against Fedor?
110% odds on Fedor. 
[quote]jjoseph_x wrote:
I diagree… if you can dodge a flurry of jobs, you can dodge a kick.
Good boxers pay a lot of attention to how their opponents are standing (how much weight is on the front/back foot), how they’re leaning, the position of the hips… to get an idea of where a punch is coming and how much force is being put into it.[/quote]
Drastically different, boxers can dodge and anticipate punches because they all have to land in a 1 ft. by 2 ft. zone on their body. Additionally, watching the hips for a punch is completely different than watching a for a punch or a kick or a takedown.
Keeping your hands up like a boxer earns you a takedown from your opponent or many nice kicks in the legs or abdomen. Moreover, many boxers absorb punches with shoulders and upper arms. You don’t absorb leg blows with those parts of your body and keep punching very long.
Mixed martial artists keep their arms lower, forearms are much better at absorbing kicks.
I have seen tons of fights in boxing where one guy can’t compete so he just repeatedly just walks in and ties up over and over again to stop from getting destroyed.
The better fighter basically has no choice but to wait for the ref to break them up. In MMA, holding is legal, so there is no ref to break them up.
Mayweather doesn’t have very much power at his current weight (he just relies on his overwhelming speed), and i don’t think any of the top lightweights would be afraid to jump in and tie up with him, then take him down and beat him up.
I am surprised no one has mentioned Yosuke Nishijima, WBO NABO cruiserweight boxing champion. So far he has lost all four of his fights in PRIDE, three by submission in the opening minutes against good (but not great) competition.
Obviously Mayweather is a cut above Nishijima but the fights went exactly as predicted; fighters circle, opponent shoots, takedown then submission. When you add the UFC’s high caliber wrestlers, “wrestle-friendly” rules and the cage the odds look even worse.
I think it is also silly to say that Mayweather could learn MMA in a few months. Compare the success of Crocop to the failure, so far, of Le Banner (Hyper Battle Cyborg has got to be the greatest nickname of all time). Le Banner is a monster in kickboxing but very poor at MMA.
P.s.
Some cool stuff involving Le Banner:
Hoost shattered Le Banner’s arm with three mid kicks in the 2003 GP!
“Every time I fight Le Banner I loose 10 years off my life” -Mark Hunt.
[quote]gotaknife wrote:
I am surprised no one has mentioned Yosuke Nishijima, WBO NABO cruiserweight boxing champion. So far he has lost all four of his fights in PRIDE, three by submission in the opening minutes against good (but not great) competition.
Obviously Mayweather is a cut above Nishijima but the fights went exactly as predicted; fighters circle, opponent shoots, takedown then submission. When you add the UFC’s high caliber wrestlers, “wrestle-friendly” rules and the cage the odds look even worse.
I think it is also silly to say that Mayweather could learn MMA in a few months. Compare the success of Crocop to the failure, so far, of Le Banner (Hyper Battle Cyborg has got to be the greatest nickname of all time). Le Banner is a monster in kickboxing but very poor at MMA.
P.s.
Some cool stuff involving Le Banner:
Hoost shattered Le Banner’s arm with three mid kicks in the 2003 GP!
“Every time I fight Le Banner I loose 10 years off my life” -Mark Hunt.
[/quote]
Great post.
Add Stefan Leko to that list as well. Agreed he’s not Le Banner but mma is not for him.
Nishijima made K-1/MMA fighter Mark Hunt look like a clown rather than one of the most dangerous strikers in MMA.
I talked up Hunt as a iron-chinned bomber, only to see him struggle to put down a boxer who weighed 100lbs less than him. Yes, the same man who gave Fedor one hell of a fight took nearly 20 minutes to stop a cruiserweight boxer who had no other skills besides heart.
Fish out of water loses. That goes for both sports. I am predominantly an MMA fan, but Fedor would look like a fool in HW boxing. You get a mediocre boxer like Briggs vs Tim Sylvia, and Sylvia is taking it to the mat asap before he takes a nap.