I’m just getting back into lifting “heavy” (relatively speaking). I’ve studied the Westside method somewhat. I never see that they do a max effort upper body pull such as rows or weighted chins. Is this because they are oriented for the competition lifts only? Do they feel that the back gets max effort during the bench press (as a support). Either way, is it possible that an imbalance of explosive strength can occur? Thanks
I should note that by max effort I mean in the 1-3 rep range. Westside does employ rows in somewhat higher rep ranges. I know they are the strongest and most innovative in the sport. Maybe competitive powerlifting and overall (non-competition oriented) powerlifting goals are two very different things? Maybe rows and chins are not conducive to extremely low rep ranges?
Thanks
When I read all of the articles from westside-barbell I saw that occasionally they do (or did) heavy backrows, but they are done on the lower body ME days. I would tell you which article exactly, but my Adobe reader dislikes me. Also, if heavy pulls help you, do them. Westside is a very adaptable way to train. Just because they might not do it does not mean it is useless.
The ME method for upperbody pulling is pretty straight forward. I would use pullups personally. Defranco uses them with his wrestling athletes (I can’t think of another sport that it’s necessary for…maybe field hockey).
I have my own DE(Dynamic effort) and RE (repetition effort) methods for upperbody pulling. RE method is if you need to gain more strength/hypertrophy than you do speed. It’s pretty much like Coach Staley’s EDT except with a set # not a set time limit. Hopefully you can do 12-15 pullups b4 you begin my parameters. I would multiply 5 by your max # of pullups and increment by 10 each week in your RE meso cycle.
Thats a lot of wordy shit hopefully it will make sense :-p
All your info can be found on This Thread:
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=685222
I use the Westside method of Max Effort days to build up for heavy vertical pulling. I’m ridiculously fast as it is, and don’t weigh too much so I’m use the Repetition exercises rather than DE work.
Microcycle for RE Pullup work:
Week 1: 50 pullups as many sets as necessary
Week 2: 65 pullups as many sets as necessary
Week 3: 75-80 pullups as many sets as necessary
Week 4: Either no movement just Accessory work, or 2-3 sets of as many reps as possible.
DE Work- I use the same percentages used in a raw bench cycle. You would use those percentages with the Lat pulldown machine.
Week 1:83@50%
Week 2:82@55%
Week 3:10*2@60%
Week 4: (Same as RE method)
Or you can scrap the percetages and just do the pullups with a “Kip”(full body explosion of legs and hips used to add momentum to your pullup, really uses a fraction of your bodyweight). I’d keep the #'s the same but just ditch the percetages. This would be a good idea if you still need to build some strength in your back muscles more so than “speed”.
All maximal lifting should be balanced out by one of these two training methods. Or a period of de-loading.
One technique I use in my assistance work that really helped to increase my weighted chin poundage is to use a super set.
Barbell Rows 33-5@75-85%/ Pullups 310
or
Weighted Pullups 33-5@ 75-85%/ Seated rows 315-20@45-60%
In my assistance work I vary hand positions usually pullup variation or the v handle variation.
Whenever I cycle pullups as my ME exercise again, I’m quite certain that I can pull a huge PR, maybe not bodyweight but 10-20lbs shy of it certainly. (i’m 180ish)
For now I’m working on my overhead lifts which SUCK. Hopefully I’ll balance that out and it will skyrocket my vertical pull also.
Great Post Xen!
I am just starting a westside style program alternating a bench press day and a pullup day and I think I’ll try an RE phase after my first DE phase on pullups using your guidelines! I’ve had good results using Pavel Tsatsouline methods but wanted to try westside and see what results I got and obviously you have had good results! Would definately like to hear more on how you have adapted westside methods to suit you!
Thanks
Jamie
Westside lifters do rows/pullups/pulldowns 3-4 days a week. Just do some heavy rows(5-6rep sets) after your main ME movement, which would be some sort of a press.
Even if competitive powerlifting isn’t your thing, you will get a very strong and thick back doing this. I don’t see much good in working up to a 1RM in a rowing movement or pullup. These are generally better suited to higher reps.
I use the westside template for upper body pulling exercises all the time. Max effort pullups, chest supported rows, and dynamic pullups. It really works for any movement plane, it just has to be applied.
Xen what’s your thoughts on strict versus kipping pullups?