Matt Hughes VS Royce Gracie in May

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61

[quote]Velvet Revolver wrote:
Yea, i dont see Royce doing so well. I have trained with Royce many times. Obviously, he helped bring about BJJ to the mainstream. But I think the addition of Gloves really hurt his, and BJJ fighters overall, chances in MMA.

Bareknuckled, a majority of the strikes going around nowadays wouldnt happen. Gloves do not protect your head, only the hands of the striker. Without gloves, the BJJ guys would dominate MMA. Not so in todays era.[/quote]

I agree that gloves have evolved the sport a bit, however I do not think that they are the reason BJJ guys have not continued to dominate the sport. The inability of a lot of the pure BJJ practicioners to take wrestlers down definately hurt them more than the addition of gloves, couple that with wrestlers and strikers learning submissions and the game has evolved past being able to sit in the guard, pull a switch, and armbar the guy.

Granted, the BJJ practiced by a lot of these guys is not very technically sound, but often it is good enough to have a base knowledge of it as long as you are an excellent grappler or striker and athletically superior to your opponent. It will make a difference when Matt Hughes has to face the far superior BJ Penn, first non-Brazilian to win Gold in the blackbelt division of the BJJ championships after aquiring his blackbelt in an astounding four years, a way better striker, and all-around dominate fighter.

62

I am just furious that this isn’t Penn’s fight.

My friend attends a college in hawaii and occationally trains in a dojo that Penn has there. He overheard BJ talking to what he assumes was his promoter about how he would not be fighting Hughes. Penn was screaming at the top of his lungs, but all my friend caught was “FUCK IT, I WILL FIGHT ANYBODY. I WILL BEAT EVERY FUCKING ONE OF THEM, LINE THEM UP”

Funny story… kinda

BJ was walking around wearing a purple belt and my friend noticed it. He is a jackass and says “oooooh whos cute purple belt” The entire room went dead silent and one the the students said “dude if you are smart you will never say that again…”

Apparently if Penn would have heard him he would have made him his bitch just like he did Hughes.

63

[quote]slimjim wrote:
Velvet Revolver wrote:
Yea, i dont see Royce doing so well. I have trained with Royce many times. Obviously, he helped bring about BJJ to the mainstream. But I think the addition of Gloves really hurt his, and BJJ fighters overall, chances in MMA.

Bareknuckled, a majority of the strikes going around nowadays wouldnt happen. Gloves do not protect your head, only the hands of the striker. Without gloves, the BJJ guys would dominate MMA. Not so in todays era.

I agree that gloves have evolved the sport a bit, however I do not think that they are the reason BJJ guys have not continued to dominate the sport. The inability of a lot of the pure BJJ practicioners to take wrestlers down definately hurt them more than the addition of gloves, couple that with wrestlers and strikers learning submissions and the game has evolved past being able to sit in the guard, pull a switch, and armbar the guy.

Granted, the BJJ practiced by a lot of these guys is not very technically sound, but often it is good enough to have a base knowledge of it as long as you are an excellent grappler or striker and athletically superior to your opponent. It will make a difference when Matt Hughes has to face the far superior BJ Penn, first non-Brazilian to win Gold in the blackbelt division of the BJJ championships after aquiring his blackbelt in an astounding four years, a way better striker, and all-around dominate fighter.[/quote]

Yes, but what about his face?

64

[quote]Shaved wrote:
I am just furious that this isn’t Penn’s fight.

My friend attends a college in hawaii and occationally trains in a dojo that Penn has there. He overheard BJ talking to what he assumes was his promoter about how he would not be fighting Hughes. Penn was screaming at the top of his lungs, but all my friend caught was “FUCK IT, I WILL FIGHT ANYBODY. I WILL BEAT EVERY FUCKING ONE OF THEM, LINE THEM UP”

Funny story… kinda

BJ was walking around wearing a purple belt and my friend noticed it. He is a jackass and says “oooooh whos cute purple belt” The entire room went dead silent and one the the students said “dude if you are smart you will never say that again…”

Apparently if Penn would have heard him he would have made him his bitch just like he did Hughes.[/quote]

If you were a promoter you would think, how can I make the most money?

Have three big fights instead of one!

BJ Penn vs. GSP

Hughes vs. Gracie

Then the winner of each of the above fight.

In way you can’t blame them…

65

Enough of this nonsense.

Royce Gracie is going to win.

66

[quote]HardcoreHorn wrote:
Enough of this nonsense.

Royce Gracie is going to win.[/quote]

LOL…wanna bet? (not money of course)

67

Hasn’t Gracie been fighting in Japan a good bit in the last 8-9 years?

68

[quote]slimjim wrote:

I agree that gloves have evolved the sport a bit, however I do not think that they are the reason BJJ guys have not continued to dominate the sport. The inability of a lot of the pure BJJ practicioners to take wrestlers down definately hurt them more than the addition of gloves, couple that with wrestlers and strikers learning submissions and the game has evolved past being able to sit in the guard, pull a switch, and armbar the guy.

.[/quote]

Well, again, I think gloves protect the top guy alot more than the bottom guy. Without gloves, guys wouldnt be able to ground and pound from the top guard position. So not being able to take down a bigger wrestler isnt an issue - BJJ never intended to be that way. The guard is an ADVANTAGIOUS position to a highly trained BJJ guy when gloves arent an issue.

Take away the gloves, and I think you would see alot of big guys getting arm barred and traingled left and right from smaller, more skilled BJJ guys. And when I speak of BJJ guys, Im not really talking about the brazilians or the gracies. We americans have pretty much equalled, if not surpassed them, in recent years in terms of skill.

Ive been involved with BJJ for the last 10 years since I was 16 years old, from the beginning almost. I really do think that gloves have changed, negatively, not just BJJ but MMA as well. People are getting the wrong idea watching MMA and see strikers dropping bombs left and right and think they can do the same in the street. What will happen is you’ll end up with broken hands, LOL.

Either way, Royce is going down. His BJJ isnt world class(and never was IMO). He lacks explosive strength, and is way past his prime anyways. I think bareknuckled Hughes could beat him anyways :slight_smile:

69

This is one bad matchup for Royce.

Royce hasnt fought a quality opponent in a long time under real rules. He fought Yoshida(who was tooling him the first time around even before the early stoppage and got owned the next time around), and Sakuraba (who totally exposed how the game has evovled far too much since the Gracie days). Royce dominated an untalented group back in the early 90s and only registered a few wins ever since even though his matchups all featured rules tailor made for him.

Hughes on the other hand is too well versed in MMA, is playing in rules that favour him and is in his prime.

This will be a single sided beatdown. Its only a publicity stunt to make Hughes a legend. Now Royce could very well pull of a sub at any given moment but the Gracie era is over, they arent even the best in Brazil anymore. Chute Boxe and Brazilian top team has athletes who arent just better at MMA than them but also at grappling(Arona) and submissions(Nog brothers).

70

[quote]Velvet Revolver wrote:

Well, again, I think gloves protect the top guy alot more than the bottom guy. Without gloves, guys wouldnt be able to ground and pound from the top guard position. So not being able to take down a bigger wrestler isnt an issue - BJJ never intended to be that way. The guard is an ADVANTAGIOUS position to a highly trained BJJ guy when gloves arent an issue.

Take away the gloves, and I think you would see alot of big guys getting arm barred and traingled left and right from smaller, more skilled BJJ guys. And when I speak of BJJ guys, Im not really talking about the brazilians or the gracies. We americans have pretty much equalled, if not surpassed them, in recent years in terms of skill.

Ive been involved with BJJ for the last 10 years since I was 16 years old, from the beginning almost. I really do think that gloves have changed, negatively, not just BJJ but MMA as well. People are getting the wrong idea watching MMA and see strikers dropping bombs left and right and think they can do the same in the street. What will happen is you’ll end up with broken hands, LOL.

Either way, Royce is going down. His BJJ isnt world class(and never was IMO). He lacks explosive strength, and is way past his prime anyways. I think bareknuckled Hughes could beat him anyways :slight_smile:
[/quote]

I should’ve written the inability of pure BJJ guys to get their opponents to the ground. It is fairly accepted that wrestlers, and even Judo practitioners to an extent, have much better takedowns.

Many ex-wrestlers, such as Liddell, have rendered their ground game obsolete simply because they cannot get the match to the mat and are outclassed in the standup game.

There has been a lot of progression out of Brazil with more emphasis on takedowns; Arona, Nog, Babalu, are all a lot better at takedowns than a lot of the BJJ guys who came up earlier without training takedowns extensively, but still, for the most part, they are not on par with the takedowns that Couture or Mark Kerr would utilize(d)…fine, fine, even Matt Hughes.

I disagree with your assertion that Americans have equalled the Brazilians in BJJ skills, popularity for the sport has increased exponentially, but look at the winners of the Abu Dhabi and Brazilian Championships…we are still a ways off from being as good as they are.

71

[quote]slimjim wrote:
Velvet Revolver wrote:

Well, again, I think gloves protect the top guy alot more than the bottom guy. Without gloves, guys wouldnt be able to ground and pound from the top guard position. So not being able to take down a bigger wrestler isnt an issue - BJJ never intended to be that way. The guard is an ADVANTAGIOUS position to a highly trained BJJ guy when gloves arent an issue.

Take away the gloves, and I think you would see alot of big guys getting arm barred and traingled left and right from smaller, more skilled BJJ guys. And when I speak of BJJ guys, Im not really talking about the brazilians or the gracies. We americans have pretty much equalled, if not surpassed them, in recent years in terms of skill.

Ive been involved with BJJ for the last 10 years since I was 16 years old, from the beginning almost. I really do think that gloves have changed, negatively, not just BJJ but MMA as well. People are getting the wrong idea watching MMA and see strikers dropping bombs left and right and think they can do the same in the street. What will happen is you’ll end up with broken hands, LOL.

Either way, Royce is going down. His BJJ isnt world class(and never was IMO). He lacks explosive strength, and is way past his prime anyways. I think bareknuckled Hughes could beat him anyways :slight_smile:

I should’ve written the inability of pure BJJ guys to get their opponents to the ground. It is fairly accepted that wrestlers, and even Judo practitioners to an extent, have much better takedowns.

Many ex-wrestlers, such as Liddell, have rendered their ground game obsolete simply because they cannot get the match to the mat and are outclassed in the standup game.

There has been a lot of progression out of Brazil with more emphasis on takedowns; Arona, Nog, Babalu, are all a lot better at takedowns than a lot of the BJJ guys who came up earlier without training takedowns extensively, but still, for the most part, they are not on par with the takedowns that Couture or Mark Kerr would utilize(d)…fine, fine, even Matt Hughes.

I disagree with your assertion that Americans have equalled the Brazilians in BJJ skills, popularity for the sport has increased exponentially, but look at the winners of the Abu Dhabi and Brazilian Championships…we are still a ways off from being as good as they are.[/quote]

I have to agree. But I think the Americans have made up for much with their superior strength. If you look at the typical Brazilian fighter they seem small compared to an American at the same weight.

Of course the exception would be BJ Penns face. That sucker is HYYYYYUUUUUGE

(sorry I had to mention it-he does have the largest roundest face for anyone of almost any weight class)

72

[quote]danreeves1973 wrote:
Hughes vs Arlovski?

I believe Arlovski would own his ass, and in rather quick fashion.

Better question, how would Arlovski stack up agaisnt the Pride heavyweights, Fedor and his brother, Crocop, etc, ?[/quote]

Arlovski can beat Aleks, has no chance against Fedor and in a ring has no chance against a healthy Crocop either, nor Sergei, nor Big Nog.

With his UFC contract expiring this year and Prides willingness to pay HWs big bucks, we might just find out how underrated or overrated this guy is very soon.

73

[quote]ZEB wrote:

I have to agree. But I think the Americans have made up for much with their superior strength. If you look at the typical Brazilian fighter they seem small compared to an American at the same weight.

Of course the exception would be BJ Penns face. That sucker is HYYYYYUUUUUGE

(sorry I had to mention it-he does have the largest roundest face for anyone of almost any weight class)
[/quote]

I knew there was a reason you loved Hughes so much, you admire his chiseled features and svelt body…yes, I would say we are bridging the gap a bit, but a few more years before we can say we’re on par. I will say that most of our guys technique is poorer, but they are making up for it athletically, once we have the generation of guys who grew up with the sport, I think we may then dominate.

74

[quote]slimjim wrote:
ZEB wrote:

I have to agree. But I think the Americans have made up for much with their superior strength. If you look at the typical Brazilian fighter they seem small compared to an American at the same weight.

Of course the exception would be BJ Penns face. That sucker is HYYYYYUUUUUGE

(sorry I had to mention it-he does have the largest roundest face for anyone of almost any weight class)

I knew there was a reason you loved Hughes so much, you admire his chiseled features and svelt body…yes, I would say we are bridging the gap a bit, but a few more years before we can say we’re on par. I will say that most of our guys technique is poorer, but they are making up for it athletically, once we have the generation of guys who grew up with the sport, I think we may then dominate.[/quote]

No, no I just want to talk about BJ Penns face. I don’t care about any other persons face in the UFC.

BJ Penn has the biggest roundest face of any human being his size…

Come on he does…you know he does… :slight_smile:

75

Fine, BJ has a big round face…and unmatched jiu-jitsu skills in UFC

76

It’s true, he does. It look like he is storing nuts for the winter.

77

[quote]Shaved wrote:
It’s true, he does. It look like he is storing nuts for the winter.
[/quote]
Yea, it’s not just completely round, it’s HUGE. I have seen him stand next to 250lb. men and his face looks much larger than the big guys. His head isn’t large, just the face…

78

[quote]slimjim wrote:
Fine, BJ has a big round face…and unmatched jiu-jitsu skills in UFC[/quote]

No, no, no I don’t want to talk about his “skills.” I want to talk about his very large and perfectly round face.

Are you in?

I have never seen anything like it in my life and more attention should be paid to it. It’s a phenomenon!

When we are done with BJ’s face I want to talk about how Rich Franklin looks exactly like Jim Carey (the comedic actor).

79

I’ve talked about the corelation between relative head size and a fighters ranking in his weight for a long time. It doesn’t always hold true but a lot of really big headers do well. For the simple fact that the big head forgives them when they make a mistake and takes a punch a bit better than a small head.

80

I saw an older fight of his where he was at a lower weight. (can’t remember the fight, he lost by decision though) His face looked quite normal then. When he went up in weight, I think it all went to his cheeks.

But to get back on topic, I have my heart set on Gracie winning the fight. I highly doubt that he could, but I will have my “Gracie For President” shirt on.