Martin Burkham (Leangains) Consult up for Grabs

Nutrition
241

[quote]SSC wrote:
Good post from StateChamp there.

I said it in some other thread on here, Intermittent Fasting is cool. And it works. And should not be discredited because the guy who “coined it” is rich now.[/quote]

Thanks man. I think it’s really the hallmark of this site that though the articles might be diverse and open-minded, the vast majority of the posters are not. I don’t think it’s ever hurt anyone to keep an open mind and attempt to learn by experience rather than shout down an idea as stupid.

I also found it funny that when a post finally addressed the main topic of the thread it was completely ignored by all but two posters.

242

[quote]Professor X wrote:
^Michael Jackson is in your avatar

Tell him I said, Thriller still kicks ass.[/quote]
That is messed up. What if someone told you that you look like a child molester?

243

Sorry but if you guys take the time to read carefully, you will realize no one talked down on intermittent fasting. I’ve been using IF for more than a year so far and it’s been enjoyable, but I sure don’t take into offense when someone tries to shed some light into IF that others may not have considered before. So in your own words, I don’t think it’s ever hurt anyone to keep an open mind and attempt to learn about other factors in IF that we may not have considered before.

244

[quote]shffl wrote:
Sorry but if you guys take the time to read carefully, you will realize no one talked down on intermittent fasting. I’ve been using IF for more than a year so far and it’s been enjoyable, but I sure don’t take into offense when someone tries to shed some light into IF that others may not have considered before. So in your own words, I don’t think it’s ever hurt anyone to keep an open mind and attempt to learn about other factors in IF that we may not have considered before. [/quote]

I didn’t think MODOK’s first post in this thread had anything to with shedding light. It was just belittling. All kaisermetal and solidkhalid have done is bash IF when they would probably benefit from it. I do have to say though that MODOK eventually provided some interesting information in this thread.

245

Where did I bash IF? WTF? We can make shit up as we go along now?

246

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
I IF, so I guess I’m biased in that I try to look for people who have had success with it. Alot of the old BOI members seemed to have used the methd effectively, and don’t have the ‘stringy-look’ that MB and his clients have. I feel maybe that look may have to do with lack of hypertrophy work that Martin or his clients do.

They simply want to be lean and strong. If you take a look at MB’s suggest routines, they are usually low reps, low frequency (3x a week in the gym), and low volume, just high intensity. Not trying to sound like a know it all, just maybe these guys dont look like BB’ers because they aren’t???[/quote]

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

Not good with posting vids, but this dude is a guy MB helped, and though he’s not technically a BB’er (he does those athletic shows that I think that Exile Swede guy use to do), but he does incorporate more hypertrophic work then most of Martin’s clients, and he def has the BB’er look, if I do say so my self…[/quote]

So I’m assuming neither of these comments were in line with the thread, or were just straight up wrong?? Because I’m honestly curious as to what others think about it.

247

[quote]MODOK wrote:

[quote]165StateChamp wrote:

[quote]shffl wrote:
Sorry but if you guys take the time to read carefully, you will realize no one talked down on intermittent fasting. I’ve been using IF for more than a year so far and it’s been enjoyable, but I sure don’t take into offense when someone tries to shed some light into IF that others may not have considered before. So in your own words, I don’t think it’s ever hurt anyone to keep an open mind and attempt to learn about other factors in IF that we may not have considered before. [/quote]

I didn’t think MODOK’s first post in this thread had anything to with shedding light. It was just belittling. All kaisermetal and solidkhalid have done is bash IF when they would probably benefit from it. I do have to say though that MODOK eventually provided some interesting information in this thread. [/quote]

Belittling to who? I simply offered my opinion on the matter. As you continue to grow up, and get a little further past your teenage years, you will realize that in this world dissenting opinions are very important part of things. Everything from the scientific method, to our judicial system, to our government is based upon the rigorous exercise and examination of dissenting opinion. If you are going to take part in this process at some point, you will need to grow to realize and accept the fact that many times people are going to believe what you don’t personally believe. It is up to YOU to make the case for your side based on logic, science, and facts. If you just start crying and saying “he’s mean-spirited!” or " you are belittling him, I’m telling the teacher!" you are going to get eaten alive. Thats just the world.

I didn’t say anything that I, and many people around here, don’t believe to be the truth. I think he is taking advantage of people. He is certainly not the only one, but he is guilty of it. You are paying this guy, who has very limited physiological knowledge and no formal training in physiology, an unreal amount of money to diagnose and correct what could be a complicated metabolic issue limiting your fat loss… from Sweden (or Norway or wherever the fuck he’s from). Thats kind of like paying a race car driver for instructions on how to rebuild a Toyota Camry engine over the internet.

If we were being honest, 95% of people who buy his services do it for one reason…the pictures he posted of himself initially. Thats not a very smart thing to do for about a thousand different reasons. But, do what you please…thats what makes this country great.[/quote]

Agree completely. If I pay someone over 1,000 bucks for anything that directly has to do with my health, there had better be some sort of medical/clinical/nursing degree after their name.

I also agree with dissenting opinions especially when those opinions are coming from people formally educated in the subject at hand.

The backlash against that makes little sense.

For me, the issue is NOT that he can charge what he chooses…it is that people will buy info for that much money when the hard work still lies in them and it would do them better to learn the ins and outs instead of blindly following.

Modok has every right to voice his opinion about the matter as every guy in the thread who acted like he was clueless earlier on.

Either way, I would like to see more intellectual debate here NOT from people who just read articles.

Sadly, it would appear many think reading some articles takes the place of a real education.

It doesn’t.

It never has.

248

Ive read a lot about physiology over the past few years and everything Modok said is absolutely dead on, anyone that knows and has read about things petaining to this subject scientifically will aggree with him. I also aggree about the clear and blatant exploitation of sad and desperate people.

I know that sure it works but the reason it works as far as fat loss goes is because people are getting adequate protein and the right amount of calories. Overall amount of food ingested and macronutrients ingested is way more important then when you eat them. I honestly do not see what is so special about this program, what it looks like to me is eat everything within 8 hours, get the proper amount of calories in each day and have the majority of them post workout.

It looks like people are paying him for him to calculate how many calories and maybe protein they need to eat and possibly what foods but the fact that to get him to do that costs 700 bucks a week is a tad disgusting in my opinion.

249

[quote]165StateChamp wrote:

[quote]SSC wrote:
Good post from StateChamp there.

I said it in some other thread on here, Intermittent Fasting is cool. And it works. And should not be discredited because the guy who “coined it” is rich now.[/quote]

Thanks man. I think it’s really the hallmark of this site that though the articles might be diverse and open-minded, the vast majority of the posters are not. I don’t think it’s ever hurt anyone to keep an open mind and attempt to learn by experience rather than shout down an idea as stupid.

I also found it funny that when a post finally addressed the main topic of the thread it was completely ignored by all but two posters. [/quote]

It wasn’t ignored. MB’s response doesn’t address what this debate is all about: what additional info does he offer to warrant those fees? I’ve asked that question, and I was only ever referring to $1500/ in a single month, not three months. Actually, I haven’t seen a single reference to a twelve week referral on this thread until you posted MB’s response.

Nobody seems to be able to provide an answer to that. With all the IF’ers on this thread, nobody has come forward who has actually paid out for MB’s coaching; nobody has any real idea of what his extended methodology entails (if it’s just walking people through the info already on the leangains site, it’s still damned expensive), and I doubt anybody here can put their hand on their heart and say they’d pay the asking price.

So why are the fees being so vigorously defended?

250

[quote]roybot wrote:

So why are the fees being so vigorously defended?[/quote]

Fanboys.

Apparently sitting at home and reading articles is like a 4 year degree.

Who knew?

251

[quote]Squatzenheimer wrote:
Yep, he can charge what he wants, and there’s a lot of merit to what he’s saying. If you’re willing to pay for it, then more power to ya. I’ve retained his services in the past (they were cheaper then), and generally speaking, I found it to be an effective program. I’ve written about it elsewhere in this forum. I did find that I lost a ton of strength, but it’s hard to know how much of that can be attributed to simply cutting so many calories for such a length of time.
[/quote]

I think this bears out what most critics have been saying.

IMHO IF is a pretty good cutting diet, but if someone who’s paid for MB’s services did it and “lost strength” how can people claim it is anything other than a good cutting diet?

252

[quote]Professor X wrote:
If I pay someone over 1,000 bucks for anything that directly has to do with my health, there had better be some sort of medical/clinical/nursing degree after their name.[/quote]

Hello Prof X. I’m curious, as you are a dentist, if you feel your fees are excessive? (Sincere question) In the UK at least, non-NHS dentists can charge whatever the hell they want… and why not? Everyone has teeth. Just like everyone has a body, and most/all have a desire for people to accept them as attractive/healthy/ whatever. Check out Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs.

Martin Berkhan like anyone else is merely catering to human desires and appetites, isn’t he? I am not envious at all, to be honest the fact that this guy can charge what he does gives me a nice feeling, like knowing someone else has won the lottery.

253

[quote]dannyrat wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
If I pay someone over 1,000 bucks for anything that directly has to do with my health, there had better be some sort of medical/clinical/nursing degree after their name.[/quote]

Hello Prof X. I’m curious, as you are a dentist, if you feel your fees are excessive? (Sincere question) In the UK at least, non-NHS dentists can charge whatever the hell they want… and why not? Everyone has teeth. Just like everyone has a body, and most/all have a desire for people to accept them as attractive/healthy/ whatever. Check out Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs.

Martin Berkhan like anyone else is merely catering to human desires and appetites, isn’t he? I am not envious at all, to be honest the fact that this guy can charge what he does gives me a nice feeling, like knowing someone else has won the lottery. [/quote]

Uh, Dental degrees are “medical/clinical degrees”.

Like I said, if I pay that much, they had better have a medical/clinical/nursing degree.

I am not sure what your post has to do with what I wrote.

We are formally educated in nutrition. I also have a biology degree.

What I know didn’t come from articles.

254

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]dannyrat wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
If I pay someone over 1,000 bucks for anything that directly has to do with my health, there had better be some sort of medical/clinical/nursing degree after their name.[/quote]

Hello Prof X. I’m curious, as you are a dentist, if you feel your fees are excessive? (Sincere question) In the UK at least, non-NHS dentists can charge whatever the hell they want… and why not? Everyone has teeth. Just like everyone has a body, and most/all have a desire for people to accept them as attractive/healthy/ whatever. Check out Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs.

Martin Berkhan like anyone else is merely catering to human desires and appetites, isn’t he? I am not envious at all, to be honest the fact that this guy can charge what he does gives me a nice feeling, like knowing someone else has won the lottery. [/quote]

Uh, Dental degrees are “medical/clinical degrees”.

Like I said, if I pay that much, they had better have a medical/clinical/nursing degree.

I am not sure what your post has to do with what I wrote.

We are formally educated in nutrition. I also have a biology degree.

What I know didn’t come from articles.
[/quote]

I didn’t mean to make reference toi dentistry seem belittling. I 100% respect the commitment, years of training and cost to obtain any sort of medical qualification.

My questions are

a) Do you feel you can justify the (in my experience, large) fees dentists charge?

b) If yes, is this because it’s certified at medicine (ie not amateurish) or another reason?

I guess i’m asking, can’t proficiency in a practical skill (such as coaching people towards fat loss) be enough justification for charging the highest fee people will pay?

Thanks

255

?^?

Uh, do you understand the difference between a professional degree and one that isn’t?

Board exams and credentialing are what separate some guy on the street from a doctor/dentist. That is why they can prescribe medication. It means very few people in the country have the skill set or STANDARDIZED TESTING to prove they have the skills to do a job like that.

You are talking about whether it is OK for a professional with those credentials to charge what he does?

Why wouldn’t he?

He’s been tested and tried and proved he knows what he is doing to a board of professionals.

256

[quote]Professor X wrote:
?^?

Uh, do you understand the difference between a professional degree and one that isn’t?

[/quote]

Yep. My girlfriend will be ‘Dr Girlfriend’ (lols if you watch Venture Bros) in June 2012. I do appreciate and respect the stringent tests that they need to pass to get to that level.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Board exams and credentialing are what separate some guy on the street from a doctor/dentist. That is why they can prescribe medication. It means very few people in the country have the skill set or STANDARDIZED TESTING to prove they have the skills to do a job like that.

You are talking about whether it is OK for a professional with those credentials to charge what he does?

Why wouldn’t he?

He’s been tested and tried and proved he knows what he is doing to a board of professionals.
[/quote]

I wasn’t really talking about the ability/license to prescribe medicines, but thanks nonetheless for clarifying your perspective.

I was sort of referring to how someone like Shelby/Thibs/John Meadows or indeed Martin Berkhan, without being doctors or PhDs per se, can charge large sums due to proven successes in achieving the results people want, which is ok.

Obviously if I wanted a tooth removed, i’d go to a dentist lol and not Martin fucking Berkhan. Point taken.

257

Modok- much respect sir- I have learned a ton by reading your posts on this and many other threads- THANK YOU!!

Two questions if you are still reading this thread

  1. Since insulin resistance rises during the day- does sensitivity increase enough after a resistance workout to counteract this effect so that ingestion of carbs in the early afternoon becomes an effective protocol for anabolism? Or should the majority of carbs be consumed AM regardless of when resistance training is performed?

  2. Can following a regular feeding schedule change the times at which cortisol is normally excreted?

I ask this second question because it occurs to me that it could be that cortisol rises in the morning in anticipation of an AM feeding since that is what most of the population does. If one regularly fasts from 8pm to noon would the body adapt to this sort of different feeding schedule by releasing cortisol at different times?

258

[quote]solidkhalid wrote:
Where did I bash IF? WTF? We can make shit up as we go along now?[/quote]

You’re 100% right. You were talking about the ‘lean, skinny look’, not IF. My mistake and my apologies.

259

[quote]MODOK wrote:

[quote]165StateChamp wrote:

[quote]shffl wrote:
Sorry but if you guys take the time to read carefully, you will realize no one talked down on intermittent fasting. I’ve been using IF for more than a year so far and it’s been enjoyable, but I sure don’t take into offense when someone tries to shed some light into IF that others may not have considered before. So in your own words, I don’t think it’s ever hurt anyone to keep an open mind and attempt to learn about other factors in IF that we may not have considered before. [/quote]

I didn’t think MODOK’s first post in this thread had anything to with shedding light. It was just belittling. All kaisermetal and solidkhalid have done is bash IF when they would probably benefit from it. I do have to say though that MODOK eventually provided some interesting information in this thread. [/quote]

Belittling to who? I simply offered my opinion on the matter. As you continue to grow up, and get a little further past your teenage years, you will realize that in this world dissenting opinions are very important part of things. Everything from the scientific method, to our judicial system, to our government is based upon the rigorous exercise and examination of dissenting opinion. If you are going to take part in this process at some point, you will need to grow to realize and accept the fact that many times people are going to believe what you don’t personally believe. It is up to YOU to make the case for your side based on logic, science, and facts. If you just start crying and saying “he’s mean-spirited!” or " you are belittling him, I’m telling the teacher!" you are going to get eaten alive. Thats just the world.

I didn’t say anything that I, and many people around here, don’t believe to be the truth. I think he is taking advantage of people. He is certainly not the only one, but he is guilty of it. You are paying this guy, who has very limited physiological knowledge and no formal training in physiology, an unreal amount of money to diagnose and correct what could be a complicated metabolic issue limiting your fat loss… from Sweden (or Norway or wherever the fuck he’s from). Thats kind of like paying a race car driver for instructions on how to rebuild a Toyota Camry engine over the internet.

If we were being honest, 95% of people who buy his services do it for one reason…the pictures he posted of himself initially. Thats not a very smart thing to do for about a thousand different reasons. But, do what you please…thats what makes this country great.[/quote]

When I write on here, I do it as if I’m speaking with strangers in real life. I try to be courteous, eloquent and polite. I expect the same from others and usually I get it.

I’m not paying Martin Berkhan anything. If I ever do go with a paid nutritionist I’d probably work with Shelby Starnes. I posted a reply from Berkhan regarding why he charges the prices that he does. I think it made sense and explains his reasoning. When it comes down to it, people are going to buy what they want to. I don’t feel as if he’s taking advantage of anyone and if the people who purchased the plan don’t feel that way either, I don’t see what the issue is.

260

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Agree completely. If I pay someone over 1,000 bucks for anything that directly has to do with my health, there had better be some sort of medical/clinical/nursing degree after their name.

I also agree with dissenting opinions especially when those opinions are coming from people formally educated in the subject at hand.

The backlash against that makes little sense.

For me, the issue is NOT that he can charge what he chooses…it is that people will buy info for that much money when the hard work still lies in them and it would do them better to learn the ins and outs instead of blindly following.

Modok has every right to voice his opinion about the matter as every guy in the thread who acted like he was clueless earlier on.

Either way, I would like to see more intellectual debate here NOT from people who just read articles.

Sadly, it would appear many think reading some articles takes the place of a real education.

It doesn’t.

It never has.[/quote]

If you read the response Martin wrote, he talks about educating all of his clients.

If you would rather only people with health science degrees discuss topics on this forum, you will be very bored. Good luck with that.