I did an interview with IronRadio.org the other day and we talked about the Pulse Fast. Dr. Lonnie Lowery added some interesting research info too.
Here’s the link to the audio: http://www.ironradio.org/Audio/78IronRadio_Chris_Shugart_Smart_Fasting64.mp3
Listened to this yesterday. It’s very long (45min +), and doesn’t tell us anything we can’t read in a 1 page article.
LR
[quote]hypergainer wrote:
[quote]wfifer wrote:
It’s in a different class. Insulin response to carbs is biphasic. Insulin response to aminos (and I guess carb-less meals) is only the first phase…[/quote]
This is interesting. I always thought insulin was insulin. Surprisingly I can not find much about this on the web (well, that I understand yet).
So if you can check my understanding, there are two types of insulin, a “fast” acting and an “intermediate”. Biphasic insulin seems to refer to a mix of the two insulin types. so I am not clear on a first and second phase, but more of simply two different speeds of activity.
So are you sure that the response to amino acids is the production of fast acting insulin?
And the key question: is there a difference in muscle sensitivity for each type of insulin? If muscle is more sensitive to the insulin produced by amino acids than carbs, it might change our thinking about pre and post workout supplementation. It might also help explain how pulse fasts might affect the muscle sensitivity to insulin…less “carb insulin” and more “amino insulin” in the blood stream for example, might create a favorable environment to “retrain” the body to build muscle.
[/quote]
Sorry for the ambiguity; the insulin response is different, but as you originally thought, insulin is insulin. The first phase is in response to elevated glucose (or amino acids, as the case may be) in the blood. Big insulin spike, doesn’t last long. The second phase is in response to glucose entering the beta cells of the pancreas. This stimulates prolonged insulin release, albeit at a lower level.
For the life of me I can’t find the reference I’m looking for right now. Hyperaminoacidemia is definitely accompanied by a rise in insulin, but I expect this response to be acute. I don’t believe amino acids themselves can stimulate beta cells (they may have attenuating effects), and hyperaminoacidemia is short-lived anyway. So unless blood sugar is still elevated after the initial insulin response–and I expect the opposite to be true–you’re not getting that second, drawn out insulin response.
[quote]wfifer wrote:
[quote]hypergainer wrote:
[quote]wfifer wrote:
It’s in a different class. Insulin response to carbs is biphasic. Insulin response to aminos (and I guess carb-less meals) is only the first phase…[/quote]
This is interesting. I always thought insulin was insulin. Surprisingly I can not find much about this on the web (well, that I understand yet).
So if you can check my understanding, there are two types of insulin, a “fast” acting and an “intermediate”. Biphasic insulin seems to refer to a mix of the two insulin types. so I am not clear on a first and second phase, but more of simply two different speeds of activity.
So are you sure that the response to amino acids is the production of fast acting insulin?
And the key question: is there a difference in muscle sensitivity for each type of insulin? If muscle is more sensitive to the insulin produced by amino acids than carbs, it might change our thinking about pre and post workout supplementation. It might also help explain how pulse fasts might affect the muscle sensitivity to insulin…less “carb insulin” and more “amino insulin” in the blood stream for example, might create a favorable environment to “retrain” the body to build muscle.
[/quote]
Sorry for the ambiguity; the insulin response is different, but as you originally thought, insulin is insulin. The first phase is in response to elevated glucose (or amino acids, as the case may be) in the blood. Big insulin spike, doesn’t last long. The second phase is in response to glucose entering the beta cells of the pancreas. This stimulates prolonged insulin release, albeit at a lower level.
For the life of me I can’t find the reference I’m looking for right now. Hyperaminoacidemia is definitely accompanied by a rise in insulin, but I expect this response to be acute. I don’t believe amino acids themselves can stimulate beta cells (they may have attenuating effects), and hyperaminoacidemia is short-lived anyway. So unless blood sugar is still elevated after the initial insulin response–and I expect the opposite to be true–you’re not getting that second, drawn out insulin response.
[/quote]
Thank you for this info. It appears that I confused biphase insulin that is administered via injection, and biphase insulin secretion. What you have stated here makes sense to me. I did find a paper that explains biphase insulin secretion. Most of it is unintelligible to me but I get the gist of it: diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/55/2/441.full.pdf
Great discussion.
[quote]hypergainer wrote:
[quote]yusef wrote:
[quote]hypergainer wrote:
It worked, I was able to focus but had some spaciness at various times, did not do a workout, hunger was almost a non issue. Slept ok but not well, even with the ZMA. Lost 1 pound which could be water, no inches on waist. Slept like crap even with the ZMA
[/quote]
Thanks for posting this. What do you mean ‘it worked’? Any visible mirror difference?
Keep the results coming btw. [/quote]
Ah, sorry, my statement was not clear…probably still some brain fog today.
What I meant was that I was able to complete the protein fast AND maintain mental concentration through a workday. I honestly did not think I could do it, so wanted to try it as a test before spending the money.
I know it is not the same and I noted the main differences in my post. But I was not trying to produce the same benefits, just wanted to see if I could get through it. So I assumed for appetite that protein is protein and would take care of the hunger, and it did. I also assumed that it is mostly the DMAE that keeps the brain fog away, and the mix I used absolutely did help.
Why did I have such low confidence level? I have always had strong appetite, and that is what kills me during any calorie restriction or fasting. Fat burners make me ravenous, and suppressants are mostly ineffective for me. Especially long term like using them for weeks rather than days. Cardio makes me feel like eating a hippopotamus. So essentially, fat burning creates extreme hunger for me.
Now for the actual MAG-10 Pulse Fast, I will be looking for the actual benefits of simultaneous fat burning and muscle gain. Based on what I was able to do, I am actually pretty excited about the possibilities, and am ready to commit to 16 pulse fasts (8 weeks), which should be about $500 if my math is correct.
I will absolutely post updates throughout.[/quote]
Sounds great. I’m very interested in your feedback,the results as well as your perceived value. What I mean by that is, I’m sure you’ll lose some fat and gain some muscle because of the fasting/anabolic rebound effect but the real question is, are the results worth the money?
I finished my third and last (ever) pulse fast; I do not think that this technique is at all effective for people who frequently 18/6 intermittent fast, warrior dieters (1 meal a day), or those who fast 1-2 days a week.
No acute thermic increases, no chronic increases in fat burning, no increase in mental function.
The only good thing out of this is the extra flavor shot and spare Power Drive for my exams.
So for those of you who frequently fast or have the capacity to do so, save some money.
Completed 2nd fast day (Thursday) and felt much better. Awaiting delivery of Power Drive still and, for reasons discussed in another thread, doing the IF with Peptopro, leucine and citrulline malate. I lowered leucine content this time and, as a result, didn’t experience headaches and nausea as per Monday’s pulse. Not trained on either pulse day but might try to during tomorrow’s pulse day if energy levels ok.
What I have noticed, as mentioned frequently by Shugart, you don’t seem to have hunger or craving issues during and post-fast. I have eaten normally each time, although deliberately raised carb intake and lowered fat. Anyway, early days. Reckon need a month on this to properly assess its efficacy.
[quote]silverhydra wrote:
I finished my third and last (ever) pulse fast; I do not think that this technique is at all effective for people who frequently 18/6 intermittent fast, warrior dieters (1 meal a day), or those who fast 1-2 days a week.
No acute thermic increases, no chronic increases in fat burning, no increase in mental function.
The only good thing out of this is the extra flavor shot and spare Power Drive for my exams.
So for those of you who frequently fast or have the capacity to do so, save some money.[/quote]
I’ve been doing a 16/8 IF the last month or so and have also been trying out the pulse fast (with pepto-pro). I’ve noticed weight loss both on the scale and visually.
[quote]chimera182 wrote:
[quote]silverhydra wrote:
I finished my third and last (ever) pulse fast; I do not think that this technique is at all effective for people who frequently 18/6 intermittent fast, warrior dieters (1 meal a day), or those who fast 1-2 days a week.
No acute thermic increases, no chronic increases in fat burning, no increase in mental function.
The only good thing out of this is the extra flavor shot and spare Power Drive for my exams.
So for those of you who frequently fast or have the capacity to do so, save some money.[/quote]
I’ve been doing a 16/8 IF the last month or so and have also been trying out the pulse fast (with pepto-pro). I’ve noticed weight loss both on the scale and visually.[/quote]
Weird, I did follow the plan as written.
I guess the lack of results is due to another variable then. Consider my first post tentative.
I did the first pulse fast yesterday. I weighted 245 in the morning. Everything went fine, followed the schedule to a â??Tâ??.. I was missing food, but wasnâ??t really starving… I guess knowing today I get food got me thru it… From about 5:00 pm on, I felt warm… come to think about it, itâ??s almost noon and I still feel warm.
This morning weighted in at 240 on the dot. Thatâ??s 5 pounds, but the night before the fast, I had ate a lot, and took one hell of a BM in the morning so take that into consideration… today and tomorrow will be interesting for sure !
[quote]silverhydra wrote:
[quote]chimera182 wrote:
[quote]silverhydra wrote:
I finished my third and last (ever) pulse fast; I do not think that this technique is at all effective for people who frequently 18/6 intermittent fast, warrior dieters (1 meal a day), or those who fast 1-2 days a week.
No acute thermic increases, no chronic increases in fat burning, no increase in mental function.
The only good thing out of this is the extra flavor shot and spare Power Drive for my exams.
So for those of you who frequently fast or have the capacity to do so, save some money.[/quote]
I’ve been doing a 16/8 IF the last month or so and have also been trying out the pulse fast (with pepto-pro). I’ve noticed weight loss both on the scale and visually.[/quote]
Weird, I did follow the plan as written.
I guess the lack of results is due to another variable then. Consider my first post tentative.
[/quote]
For sure, there are a ton of variables one way or the other.
[quote]silverhydra wrote:
I finished my third and last (ever) pulse fast; I do not think that this technique is at all effective for people who frequently 18/6 intermittent fast, warrior dieters (1 meal a day), or those who fast 1-2 days a week.
No acute thermic increases, no chronic increases in fat burning, no increase in mental function.
The only good thing out of this is the extra flavor shot and spare Power Drive for my exams.
So for those of you who frequently fast or have the capacity to do so, save some money.[/quote]
What is an 18/6 intermittent fast? Is it 18hr fast every 6 days?
[quote]fnf wrote:
[quote]silverhydra wrote:
I finished my third and last (ever) pulse fast; I do not think that this technique is at all effective for people who frequently 18/6 intermittent fast, warrior dieters (1 meal a day), or those who fast 1-2 days a week.
No acute thermic increases, no chronic increases in fat burning, no increase in mental function.
The only good thing out of this is the extra flavor shot and spare Power Drive for my exams.
So for those of you who frequently fast or have the capacity to do so, save some money.[/quote]
What is an 18/6 intermittent fast? Is it 18hr fast every 6 days?[/quote]
18 hour fast followed by 6 hours of eating.
[quote]chimera182 wrote:
[quote]fnf wrote:
[quote]silverhydra wrote:
I finished my third and last (ever) pulse fast; I do not think that this technique is at all effective for people who frequently 18/6 intermittent fast, warrior dieters (1 meal a day), or those who fast 1-2 days a week.
No acute thermic increases, no chronic increases in fat burning, no increase in mental function.
The only good thing out of this is the extra flavor shot and spare Power Drive for my exams.
So for those of you who frequently fast or have the capacity to do so, save some money.[/quote]
What is an 18/6 intermittent fast? Is it 18hr fast every 6 days?[/quote]
18 hour fast followed by 6 hours of eating.[/quote]
Thanks. I googled it and was kind of confused. Lots of stuff about paleo. Gotta read more.
Wanted to stop by and clarify the insulin posts by wfifer and hypergainer. The biphasic response of insulin in response to increased blood glucose vs. the monophasic release of a.a. is not mediated by glucose uptake into beta cells. The first phase of the biphasic response (and the only phase of the monophasic response) are essencially of the same magnitude if full stimulation is present and represent the STORED insulin reserve inside the beta cell.
The second phase of the biphasic response is due to new production of insulin by the beta cell. So the beta cells receive the message to release insulin and dump the insulin they contain from storage granules and then in the face of continued stimulus (and this is caused by continued elevated blood glucose levels which is why it is absent from a.a. mediated insulin release) then more insulin is manufactured and released as it is made which of course takes some time.
Hope this helps clear that up. It’s pedantic I know but I did want clarify.
Tyson
[quote]TysonKilpatrick wrote:
Wanted to stop by and clarify the insulin posts by wfifer and hypergainer. The biphasic response of insulin in response to increased blood glucose vs. the monophasic release of a.a. is not mediated by glucose uptake into beta cells. The first phase of the biphasic response (and the only phase of the monophasic response) are essencially of the same magnitude if full stimulation is present and represent the STORED insulin reserve inside the beta cell.
The second phase of the biphasic response is due to new production of insulin by the beta cell. So the beta cells receive the message to release insulin and dump the insulin they contain from storage granules and then in the face of continued stimulus (and this is caused by continued elevated blood glucose levels which is why it is absent from a.a. mediated insulin release) then more insulin is manufactured and released as it is made which of course takes some time.
Hope this helps clear that up. It’s pedantic I know but I did want clarify.
Tyson[/quote]
Thanks Tyson…what is a.a.?
I appreciate the pedanticalness, I read the studies and whatnot but my formal education is not in human physiology. 
I misread you at first, but I think now I’m clear…is that any different than what I said, or is just more detailed?
[quote]JamesBrawn007 wrote:
…doing the IF with Peptopro, leucine and citrulline malate. I lowered leucine content this time and, as a result, didn’t experience headaches and nausea as per Monday’s pulse.
[/quote]
JB, How much leucine, and how much citrulline malate?
It’s an occupational hazard. And you were almost spot on, but glucose isn’t uptaken into the beta cell (at least not to release insulin). Rather it is a voltage gated phenomenon. Doesn’t matter, the jist is correct.
And sorry about that hypergainer, a.a. is my shorthand for amino acid.
[quote]yusef wrote:
[quote]wfifer wrote:
I appreciate the pedanticalness, I read the studies and whatnot but my formal education is not in human physiology.
[/quote]
PEDANTRY actually.[/quote]
Excuuuuuuuse me but i believe it’s pedanticalosity actually. Kthanx