[quote]
mikren wrote:
You don’t need a $10 ab wheel; just use an olympic bar loaded with a couple of 35’s. From a standing position, bend over grab the bar and roll out as far as you can, then roll back.
You’ll be doing the crab crawl to get out of bed the next morning.[/quote]
I sat here trying to picture this for a long-ass time and then I remembered: not every gym uses octagonal plates! haha
Not possible at mine…
[quote]hueyOT wrote:
two posts full of crap[/quote]
I don’t disagree that isolation work is sometimes necessary to help target a lacking area. Not once did I even suggest that I disagreed with that. The problem I have is that people come on this board looking for advice on how to target certain areas when they haven’t even bothered to build up any sort of base. Yes- it’s possible he doesn’t give a shit about building a base and it is his prerogative to do so. But if that is the case he doesn’t belong on this forum. If you disagree with that you don’t belong on this forum either. This is a forum built around hardcore bodybuilding. There are other boards out there for those concerned about their abs.
If you want to try and cater your advice to only answer the specific questions asked and put your blinders on to the overall issues, that’s also your prerogative. This isn’t about trying to change someone’s goals, it’s about pointing out the universal things one must do to achieve any sort of bodybuilding goal. Once those are figured in, then it’s time to try and target weak areas. I doubt that the OP is in a position to be concerned about targeting his “lower abs”. Once you get far enough along that this matters, it’s doubtful you would need to post a question on how to target a specific muscle group. You would know.
It’s a proven fact that most people do not focus on compound movements and spend all of their time and energy on mirror muscles doing only isolation work. Just take a look at your gym, hell any gym for that matter. Was it wrong of me to assume this guy was one of those types? Maybe. I also don’t recall you ever asking the guy if in fact he isn’t that type? You made the assumption he was already working compounds and was just looking for a way to help bring up a weak area, or worse he had injuries preventing him from doing compound movements. How is it not wrong for you to make assumptions as well just because your assumptions made him appear smarter?
This isn’t a soapbox situation, at least for me. It appears it may be for you. If you don’t like the advice someone is giving then try and offer up your own advice rather than playing the annoying internet police. Yes I am aware you did that, but not until after you attacked my advice.
As for being a parrot with my “one-dimensional” training. You’re right. Compound lifts are so one-dimensional. Isolation work is the wave of the future.
If you want to emphasize the lower portion of the rectus abdominus you have to make sure you are trying as hard as possible to use it. What I mean by this is that hanging pikes, leg raises and the like are mainly hip flexor exercises. Sure there is some rectus ab work there but for the most part if you do these exercises you will be targeting the hip flexors. What you have to do is try to emphasize spinal flexion by using the lower abdominals and obliques to curl your hips in and up.
[quote]gojira wrote:
mikren wrote:
The best way I have found to target my lower abs is to use a simple $10 ab wheel and do them from the toes instead of the knees. Once you get fully extended you will need some serious strength in your lower abs to return to the starting position without falling to your knees.
You don’t need a $10 ab wheel; just use an olympic bar loaded with a couple of 35’s. From a standing position, bend over grab the bar and roll out as far as you can, then roll back.
You’ll be doing the crab crawl to get out of bed the next morning.[/quote]
Yea buddy…it’s murderous.
I do squats and deadlifts and all that, but neglecting direct ab work and depending on other exercises never worked for me. In the last four months I’ve started doing some kind of direct ab work at the end of every workout, and I feel a million times better…not to mention my lifts are better.
Hanging leg raises and side bends tend to be my favorites.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Yea buddy…it’s murderous.
I do squats and deadlifts and all that, but neglecting direct ab work and depending on other exercises never worked for me. In the last four months I’ve started doing some kind of direct ab work at the end of every workout, and I feel a million times better…not to mention my lifts are better.
Hanging leg raises and side bends tend to be my favorites.[/quote]
I never got much out of sidebends. Gojira’s rolling sounds interesting. I’ll have to give that a shot. I take it you’ve tried it, or something similar. Any tips?
[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Yea buddy…it’s murderous.
I do squats and deadlifts and all that, but neglecting direct ab work and depending on other exercises never worked for me. In the last four months I’ve started doing some kind of direct ab work at the end of every workout, and I feel a million times better…not to mention my lifts are better.
Hanging leg raises and side bends tend to be my favorites.
I never got much out of sidebends. Gojira’s rolling sounds interesting. I’ll have to give that a shot. I take it you’ve tried it, or something similar. Any tips?[/quote]
Hahaha. Be prepared for the next day…they hurt like a motherfucker.
Don’t push yourself too hard the first time- do a few sets of six and get used to it first. They’re killers.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Yea buddy…it’s murderous.
I do squats and deadlifts and all that, but neglecting direct ab work and depending on other exercises never worked for me. In the last four months I’ve started doing some kind of direct ab work at the end of every workout, and I feel a million times better…not to mention my lifts are better.
Hanging leg raises and side bends tend to be my favorites.
I never got much out of sidebends. Gojira’s rolling sounds interesting. I’ll have to give that a shot. I take it you’ve tried it, or something similar. Any tips?
Hahaha. Be prepared for the next day…they hurt like a motherfucker.
Don’t push yourself too hard the first time- do a few sets of six and get used to it first. They’re killers.[/quote]
I would assume you use small plates, like 5’s or 10’s, to avoid being up off the ground too much? This actually sounds like a challenge now. Gonna try them tomorrow.
[quote]hueyOT wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:
EXACTLY MY POINT. This is a bodybuilding website. What part of “how do I make my abs stick out?” relates at all to BODYBUILDING?
did you really just ask that question?
Did he say any of that? No he just wanted to know how to isolate his lower abs. Usually that means all he wants is to finish out his six pack.
although you may be right about him being that cheesy type of casual gym trainee who only does arm curls and sit-ups, it’s arrogant of you to assume that without verifying it. and even if he is only concerned about abdominal training, that is his prerogative, and telling him to squat and bench and deadlift isn’t going to be enjoyable for him and isn’t the most effective method for him to achieve HIS goals. maybe he doesn’t cre about putting on 15 pounds of muscle or benching double body-weight. not everyone in the gym has the same goals.
[b]
How exactly did I do that? He asked what would be good ways to work on his abs. Are you telling me the exercises I listed will not do anything for him in this regard? [/b]
although compound lifts do activate the abs, nobody will disagree with that, they are not going to develop thick and cosmetically impressive abs alone. if someone really wants a great stomach they better go spend some time with direct abdominal work. abs quickly adapt to movements like squats, and at that point squats do little to hypertrophy the abs.
This is the exact damn reason why this forum is turning into bodybuilding.com. Idiots like you and huey trying to make everything PC and cater to frat boys and their abs. Count me out for the big group hug.
you’re clearly the more intelligent poster in this thread, parroting the same one-dimensional outlook on training that is far from uncommon around these parts.
very original.
[/quote]
Ha, Huey’s back. And he apparently has sand in his vagina.
Seriously, you sound like you’ve read a couple of articles and suddenly know everything.
[quote]Dave_ wrote:
Ha, Huey’s back. And he apparently has sand in his vagina.
Seriously, you sound like you’ve read a couple of articles and suddenly know everything. [/quote]
Who exactly is this comment aimed at?
[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
Dave_ wrote:
Ha, Huey’s back. And he apparently has sand in his vagina.
Seriously, you sound like you’ve read a couple of articles and suddenly know everything.
Who exactly is this comment aimed at?[/quote]
I assure you, it’s aimed entirely at “keyboard warrior Huey”, I’ve found him to be extremely irritating from the second he leapt into the forum talking about his fat buffet post workout.
…But, even it was for you, does it really matter what some guy on a forum thinks of your training knowledge/experience?
[quote]Dave_ wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:
Dave_ wrote:
Ha, Huey’s back. And he apparently has sand in his vagina.
Seriously, you sound like you’ve read a couple of articles and suddenly know everything.
Who exactly is this comment aimed at?
I assure you, it’s aimed entirely at “keyboard warrior Huey”, I’ve found him to be extremely irritating from the second he leapt into the forum talking about his fat buffet post workout.
…But, even it was for you, does it really matter what some guy on a forum thinks of your training knowledge/experience?[/quote]
Not really. Just curious.
[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
Dave_ wrote:
eengrms76 wrote:
Dave_ wrote:
Ha, Huey’s back. And he apparently has sand in his vagina.
Seriously, you sound like you’ve read a couple of articles and suddenly know everything.
Who exactly is this comment aimed at?
I assure you, it’s aimed entirely at “keyboard warrior Huey”, I’ve found him to be extremely irritating from the second he leapt into the forum talking about his fat buffet post workout.
…But, even it was for you, does it really matter what some guy on a forum thinks of your training knowledge/experience?
Not really. Just curious.[/quote]
Yay.
Decline weighted sit-ups work for me.
I am curious to why people are not recommending Full contact twists… I have found them to be an excellent rotational ab exercise. If you have no idea what I am talking about, this article has them in it… http://www.T-Nation.com/findArticle.do?article=205abs2
[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
If you want to emphasize the lower portion of the rectus abdominus you have to make sure you are trying as hard as possible to use it. What I mean by this is that hanging pikes, leg raises and the like are mainly hip flexor exercises. Sure there is some rectus ab work there but for the most part if you do these exercises you will be targeting the hip flexors. What you have to do is try to emphasize spinal flexion by using the lower abdominals and obliques to curl your hips in and up.[/quote]
This is a very good point. I don’t know about the whole upper/lower ab distinction, but it’s definitely easy to take stress off the abdominal muscles if you swing, lean back excessively, or move very quickly through the movement. Coach Sommer has a good article on hanging leg raises (googlable) that sets a very high standard: His gymnast kids can perform HLRs with the back in a straight line with the hands and shoulders, perpendicular to the ground (no flexion at the shoulder joint).
Even though I don’t swing when I perform HLRs, I still have a tendency to bend the arms as my hip angle is at about 45 degrees, and I am not capable of performing HLRs without some lean-back. Since I don’t really care about my HLR strength and just do these for abdominal conditioning, I sometimes hold the top for time (shins to bar) instead of doing repetitions.
This seems to engage the abdominal muscles more intensely than doing repetitions. To restate the point: Obviously this is not the technique that is most conducive to develoing HLR strength, but it seems to be effective from the standpoint of abdominal conditoning.
[quote]gojira wrote:
mikren wrote:
The best way I have found to target my lower abs is to use a simple $10 ab wheel and do them from the toes instead of the knees. Once you get fully extended you will need some serious strength in your lower abs to return to the starting position without falling to your knees.
You don’t need a $10 ab wheel; just use an olympic bar loaded with a couple of 35’s. From a standing position, bend over grab the bar and roll out as far as you can, then roll back.
You’ll be doing the crab crawl to get out of bed the next morning.[/quote]
!!!
Dude, I never thought of that. That’s a fucking GREAT idea.
[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
hueyOT wrote:
And your input on this thread has been so valuable. How is it arrogant of me? The guy is the one asking the questions. It’s not like I randomly picked his phone number out of the phone book then called him up to tell him to squat.
[/quote]
Calls random phone number
“You need to squat, man”
“But I am paraplegic”
“Well then you will at least break paralel without trouble”
Building a ‘base’ is only important for overall growth, and has little to do with someone who wants to build and isolate a muscle group. “Squat for big arms” only goes so far.
Compound powerlifting movements don’t help much with abs. They’re stabilizers. In the squat and deadlift the emphasis always seemed to be the lower back to me, not the abs, and if they do fire maybe you hyperextended too much or something.
Either way, you do NOT want the abs to be the limiting factor in your powerlifts that need to become stronger so you can increase on them, you want that to be your quads, hams, pecs/tris or whatever.
Direct work is always the best way to make a muscle group grow, large movements can help and teach movements for sports or everyday life. Although honestly, I can’t think of a powerlift that would help much with a hanging leg raise.
Bah, I forgot to add this:
Ab wheels are better and safer than barbell rollouts. The reason is a close grip. Also, your hands are on either side of a single wheel, rather than both being between two wheels.
You can do a close grip on barbells, but then it gets harder to make it roll out evenly, one wheel can roll out faster and start to turn and stuff. It’s still tricky even with a wide grip. With a wide grip you also can’t extend your arms as far forward since much of their length goes sideways.
I guess doing both could be cool for variety, but you can’t discount the wheel. Plus, good luck using a barbell for the rollouts with your legs.
The cool thing about ab wheels for your feet is that you can do a wheelbarrow walk without someone to carry your feet, and it would probably be more challenging too since your legs aren’t as elevated.
reverse crunches, or, for the more advanced, dragon flags (or for huey, dragon flags with a hundred pound dumbbell between the ankles. just kidding man!. I’m also a big fan of overhead work for “core” strength. Overhead carries, waiter walks, overhead squats, snatchs, drop snatches, etc… If you like bodyweight exercises, try levers (http://www128.pair.com/r3d4k7/FrontLever(1962).JPG) or planches (404 | Dragon Door) If you can pull off either of those, you’ve got pretty solid abs.
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