yeah, it’s a cream. it’s a lil yucky. i’m still not used to it. 
they told me it would take a couple weeks to notice a change.
shrug
am i lookin for morning wood or somethin’? xP
[quote]sco412 wrote:
yeah, it’s a cream. it’s a lil yucky. [/quote]
I can see why you have low test.
Or change in sexual activity ie: being hornier could be a change.
[quote]sco412 wrote:
am i lookin for morning wood or somethin’? xP[/quote]
See my earlier recommendations for application to your penis and scrotum.
lmao!
you guys are killin’ me! x_X
anyway, ksman, why do the labels direct me not to put it there?
couldn’t it cause some shrinkage?
Because the FDA will not talk about things that make sex feel better. They are sexually up tight. But I can’t imagine a branch of the government acting any other way.
Don’t forget to take your niacin, it is part of the chemistry of the orgasm. And that is what is in the new sex lubes to enhance things for the gals.
niacin, eh?
could i be getting enough through a healthy diet? or would yet another supp. be recommended?
Just wondering, what happens to your health when you have low test level?
Read the sticky’s.
UPDATE:
went to the doc to get some bloodwork done. my plan was to test for my free-T, total-T, E2, progesterone, and vit D(was low on the last test). i got some weird looks from my ‘new’ dr.
great.
turns out that the lab the dr. uses doesn’t test for free-T, an acted like they didn’t know what i was talking about. but everything was supposed to be “okay.”
i refused to take the blood test and left.
ugh, what a waste of a day.
now i gotta find a new new dr…
UPDATE:
i got my results from my 2nd blood test:
LH - < 0.2 mIU/mL (normal range 1.7-8.6)
FSH - 0.3 mIU/mL (normal range 1.5-12.4)
Testosterone, Serum - 73 ng/dL (normal range 280-800)
Testosterone, Free - 2.02 ng/dL (normal range 5.00-21.00)
% Free Test. - 2.77
so, obviously, the testosterone cream didn’t help much…
sorry. that sucks.
[quote]sco412 wrote:
UPDATE:
i got my results from my 2nd blood test:
LH - < 0.2 mIU/mL (normal range 1.7-8.6)
FSH - 0.3 mIU/mL (normal range 1.5-12.4)
Testosterone, Serum - 73 ng/dL (normal range 280-800)
Testosterone, Free - 2.02 ng/dL (normal range 5.00-21.00)
% Free Test. - 2.77
so, obviously, the testosterone cream didn’t help much… :/[/quote]
Your are a transdermal non-responder. That is a symptom of hypogonadism. Get TSH and fT4 tested.
Your LH and FSH are tanked. While it is normal and expected that TRT will take those close to zero, this does not make sense as your TT and FT levels are not high enough to shut down what is left of your HPTA.
%FT is meaningless when TT is so low. With FT low, E2 and SHBG should be low. Lower SHBG is consistent with %FT=2.77
So at this point, a working assumption should be that your hypothalamus and pituitary may be incapable of producing LH/FSH. If that is true, you have secondary hypogonadism and your testes might be hCG responsive and that should be tried. If hCG does not increase T, then you are primary and secondary. IT may take time for your testes to respond. A 10,000iu vial will last 80 days.
Testing E2 would have been interesting as a possible agent for HPTA shutdown. Prolactin can do this, but if high one would expect some gyno. If prolactin is high, cause can be a pituitary adinoma.
Again, your pituitary is suspect.
Summary:
- Test for hypogonadism, TSH and T4, not just TSH.
- Trial with 10,000iu dosed: 250iu hCG SC EOD to see if testes are LH responsive.
If you are hCG responsive, that might be all that you need.
Your TRT will need to be injected. Self injection is the way to go and least cost. With transdermals, the amount delivered/absorbed is always variable and unknown in advance [typical 10% if working well]. With injections, what you inject is 100%.
If you are injecting T, you still need hCG to preserve your testes [if responsive].
You need a sperm count at some point.
A higher dose of the T-cream will do nothing.
Yes, too much to learn. As you do not grasp this material yet, you should be collecting this material in a file on your own computer and make available to doctors.
thanks for the reply and info. again, KSman.
i’m scheduling an appointment with a “specialist” now (endocrinologist).
it’ll be awhile before i actually get the appointment though, however, at least this gives me an opportunity to gather some more info. and cash.
on another point, since i have crappy T-levels, how would that affect me getting bigger?
i’m fairly lean at about 150-155 now, but i’d like to put on 10/15/20 lbs of muscle.
is this an uphill battle that i can overcome with good diet and heavy lifting? or will my low-T just make me fat?
i’m going to try anyway 
just thought i’d ask for opinions/info/comments.
[quote]sco412 wrote:
Just last week i had some bloodwork done and decided to get my test levels checked out. turns out it’s low. very low. like at 30 when it needs to be around 250-300.
they prescribed a testosterone compound (couldn’t get a name). i was thinking of taking Alpha Male. i don’t plan on taking both at once, however, would Alpha Male do the trick?
Also, if anyone is interested, i’m 25. eat really healthy meals, 4-5 meals a day, lift twice a week, and box 3-4 nights a week. i generally stay very active and supplement with Flameout and zma. i don’t smoke or drink either. i’m just worried/curious as to why my test levels are so low…[/quote]
Buy several different Test herbs, like Longjack and Catauba. Cycle them every 3 or 4 days so your body won’t adapt.
Don’t go near HRT. It is a scam.
well, looks like it’ll be a looooooooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnggggggg time till i get an appointment with an endo.
someone told me to try some HGH… wonder if that’ll help.
I have the same problem with low test, my level is 189. It was 6 weeks before I could see an endo, so I called around looking for one that prescribes injectables, I have an appt for tomorrow. Call around I am sure you and find one who isnt all booked up like I did, of course I had androderm which is burning my skin so that prob helped me get in.
[quote]London Runner wrote:
This may interest you, then again, it may not;
Greek researchers did a trial with just under three hundred infertile men, whose sperm count was low and most of whom had low levels of testosterone production. The researchers gave the men either 20 mg tamoxifen, 60 mg toremifene or 60 mg raloxifene daily for three months. The table below shows what happened to the menâ??s LH, FSH and testosterone levels.
[photo]24865[/photo]
Raloxifene has little effect on the testosterone level, so itâ??s not an interesting candidate for a Post Cycle Therapy supplement. Toremifene is somewhat better, but doesnâ??t perform as well as tamoxifen, and it loses its maximum effect after two months as well.
To complete the story weâ??ve added the table below, which shows the effect of the three on sperm cells. Once again, raloxifene performs less well than tamoxifen and toremifene.
[photo]24866[/photo]
The researchers suspect that the two more effective SERMs not only work through the bodyâ??s hormonal thermostat, thereby inducing the pituitary gland to make more messenger hormones [which in turn get the testes to produce more testosterone]. They think that tamoxifen and toremifene also have a direct effect on the testosterone producing cells.
LR[/quote]
Where did you see this published?
UPDATE II:
i have an appointment with an endo scheduled for the 13th of january.
also, i’ve been feeling better and better recently. more energy, better mood, better libido. 
i couldn’t say exactly what could be the sole cause of it either… it’s probably a combination of things. but to make a list of major lifestyle changes:
–“bulking” - i’m consuming anywhere between 3500-4500 calories now. in fact, i’m about 170lbs today. that’s about 4lbs a week from when i started, so i think i’m moving up waaaayyy to fast… i’m still eating mostly clean, though i’ve added a lot more carbs than i usually do and a few more sweets here and there.
–i’m lifting 4 times a week now instead of 2 or 3
–i’ve quit boxing and my 2nd job. i get a lot more rest in the evenings now. i’m not dying for a nap by lunchtime.
–supps. i’m taking more Flameout and have added Rez-V.
despite all this, i’m still going to go see the endo. i doubt the problem has just disappeared, although i wish it has. i’m sure i’ll get another blood test anyway.
Greek research:
The data shows that Toremifene does not loose its effect at 3 months. Please edit/correct your post.
Toremifene is known to have good effects on the prostate.
You cannot compare the numbers across the groups as these are different groups of men. You can only look at the increases relative to the group’s baseline data [BL].
The differences between the first two SERMs are not statistically significant.
The increases of T seem to be totally explained by increases in LH. It is not possible to state which of the first two SERMs is better, only can state that they are effective and the third is not. One could do a double blind cross over study to determine which of the first two is more effective, but then the results might be from the chosen doses and not superior fundamentals. It would be interesting to look at the effectiveness of the two SERMs based on moles instead of milligrams.
In choosing between tamoxifen and Toremifene we can conclude that both are effective and one can use either or the least cost. If there are no issues concerning side effects and availabilty, cost:effect would seem to rule.
Some hear can try both and report relative differences in terms of how they feel.
I am glad that the researchers did not bother to even study clomid. Probably because the side effects rule it out as for these therapeutic uses.
“”“They think that tamoxifen and toremifene also have a direct effect on the testosterone producing cells. “””
This is hard to accept as there is nothing in the data to suggest that these two SERMs are stimulating LH receptors directly. Perhaps the researchers are trying to fish for more research money. Most research papers suggest a need for more study and never try to close the book on a subject as that puts them out of business.