40 yr old male
5’9" 196. BMR 30
No facial hair/ slight body hair/ no hair loss
No loss of libido but lacking “fire”, motivation, energy
Packing of belly fat last couple years
Poor diet
Poor sleep and sleeping habits (shift work)
Testing came back with low T (159) and Vitamin D deficiency
I have extensive prior weight lifting experience
Have abused energy/fat loss supplements for 10+ Years
First, thanks to you all for taking time to address the situation I have only myself to blame for. My hopes are to combine information here with my new TRT program and increase muscle mass, decrease body fat, and give my daughters back their dad. It seems only yesterday I had body fat in near single digits, great vascularity, and incredible cardiovascular health. Seems I “woke-up” at 40, abusing energy/weight loss pills just to make it through the day while packing on fat, lacking energy, fire, motivation for daily activities let alone working out. It got so bad that I could take your strongest energy pill and immediately be able to take a nap. If it promised energy I crammed it down my throat. I know I was on a path for death and have decided to change to be here for my daughters. I just need some help.
Changes: I have not taken ANY energy supplements in 2 weeks, probably first time in 15-20 years, I am changing to a low carb high protein 2,000 cal diet, have begun TRT with 2 pumps of Androgel daily, and supplementing with Vitamin D. I am also beginning the Rushfit 60 day workout on monday.
Hopes: To take advantage of my test script and lower body fat, add muscle and have the “fire” to regain cardio health
Any info you guys can offer is greatly appreciated. Looking for help with supplementation needs to increase/work with gel, what I should ABSOLUTELY be taking, how can I use TRT to my advantage in muscle growth, what I should be asking my doctor,etc. I will post all lab results after my Dr emails them. My Dr z BTW is awesome and I would have no problem changing therapy/combining TRT tgerapy to weekly shots as I know he does these already. THX Again. I will post number changes, before n afters, etc. as my journey back to a “rat” begins…
[quote]iw84aces wrote:
Are you primary or secondary?
what was your lab results? Post them here.
Are you sure this is a low T problem?
[/quote]
Aces - Thanks for your reply. I spoke with the dr office and they are going to email my complete blood draw results so I’ll post em asap. Being a newbie, I’m not sure what you mean by primary/post. Dr. checked everything possible, to rule out any other issues, and said all other levels tested in normal range. Well see how normal when post these and have the experts check em. He was quite shocked at the low T number. Other than that there really are no other issue’s. No real worries, no depression, etc. Sleep is sort of an issue but, I work shift work and have never been much of a sleeper to begin with.
I hope some of this helped. Again, I can not thank you enough for taking out the time for this newbie with little info and even less answers.
[quote]iw84aces wrote:
It’s just to bad you didn’t make your way here before you started trt.
Low T is a symptom. We try to find out what is causing the problem.
Have you read the stickies?? A lot of good info for you there if you have an interest.
The things you have been doing to your body have most likely caused this issue.
Sleep and good diet would be very important for testosterone production.
Oh well at least you’re here now, a lot can be learned.
Welcome to hormones 101 lol[/quote]
Thanks for the warm invite bro! I did jam through the stickies but, to be quite honest with you my head was in a tailspin from “holy sh!t I just got a test script” to “holy sh!t I just got a test script”. My head was spinning from awesomeness to WTF happened. I spent over 2 decades taking great care of myself and damn near ruined it all in just a few years. I guess my real hope here is that I use this time to regain the fire/motivation to head back to the gym, change my eating habits to reap the benefits of the script, and overall ensure my health. Maybe it’s the turd way out but, at this point nothing else was working so I was sure a low T score had something to do with it. It’s been a week on androgel so far and all I have noticed is a bit more energy and less “sleppiness”. i didn’t find this site until I realized what was occurring coupled with no real knowledge on the subject so I sought what I felt would be the true experts. Aside from listing my results here soon, I have a follow-up in a couple weeks. What should I be asking The doc. i’m off to reread the stickies and attempt to retain some of the knowledge as the smoke is clearing but, I can’t say I feel any better about the situation. You’re helpin a lot bud. Thx!
The stimulants may have caused some adrenal fatigue, you can watch for that in you reading.
Your low energy and weight gain can also be from [subclinical] hypothyroidism. See the thyroid basics sticky. Check your oral waking and mid afternoon body temperatures.
Using sea salt or iodized? If sea salt, since when?
Other health issues?
Drugs, Rx or OTC?
Vit-D3, get tiny oil based 5000iu caps, take 30,000 a day for 7-10 days, 5,000 thereafter.
If T-gel does not work, that might be from a thyroid problem, we see that connection often.
[quote]KSman wrote:
The stimulants may have caused some adrenal fatigue, you can watch for that in you reading.
Your low energy and weight gain can also be from [subclinical] hypothyroidism. See the thyroid basics sticky. Check your oral waking and mid afternoon body temperatures.
Using sea salt or iodized? If sea salt, since when?
Other health issues?
Drugs, Rx or OTC?
Vit-D3, get tiny oil based 5000iu caps, take 30,000 a day for 7-10 days, 5,000 thereafter.
If T-gel does not work, that might be from a thyroid problem, we see that connection often.
The support on tbis site is awesome! Thanks Ksman! I’ll take and post my temps tomorrow and I read the piece on hypothyroidism and adrenal fatigue. All is soundin very familiar! I work in a very adrenaline based
occupation and I am sure that + ephedrine based products has definitely taken its toll. I will be sure to speak with the Doc about all of this as well.I will take my temp and post them tomorrow. I also use iodized salt fairly regularly but you never know.
I can not explain the impact you two have already made on me for no other reason than to help. I have dedicated my life to helping others and it restores my faith in humanity that the sweat, blood, and tears are for nought. Thanks again!
These tests were after a week vacation,ie drinking binge, and have just about scared me to death. It’s clear I have to do something now if I plan on being around for my two daughters. Let me hear it…
Listen man go see a homeopath or a naturopath brig your labs with you and take some advice.make sure you are seeing a good one.
You cholesterol is not terrible again no ranges
Globose is a worry but what time was it taken and were u fasting and its only one test
Liver looks good for a week of drinking
I have different units in canada but even ksman will ask you to add units and ranges
Also, BRO you need to read the stickies and get the labs suggested not just the ones above.
The adrenals and the thyroid should be fully tested.
Read the stickys and if you still don’t know what to test ask and we will help you
Tsh is slightly high. Still think ft3 and ft4 will tell more of a story
Thanks for the quick repsonse Aces! I have a follow-up on the 23rd and will have the other tests completed. I had these done before I found this site. Wish I had known about it when I went for blood but, I went to check my health and finally get a physical aftet feelin like crap for years. Never imagined my tiredness would have something to do with test. Not diggin the cholesterol values as my dad has had 5 heart attacks so i gotta make sure I jam on lowering those. Sugar was unfasted. Ill repost with values. Thanks brother!!!
Thanks for the quick repsonse Aces! I have a follow-up on the 23rd and will have the other tests completed. I had these done before I found this site. Wish I had known about it when I went for blood but, I went to check my health and finally get a physical aftet feelin like crap for years. Never imagined my tiredness would have something to do with test. Not diggin the cholesterol values as my dad has had 5 heart attacks so i gotta make sure I jam on lowering those. Sugar was unfasted. Ill repost with values. Thanks brother!!!
Its been 3 weeks on two pumps of androgel a day and I am not noticing anything. In fact, I may have less libido since starting it. I did start working out again though so unsure if that has an effect or not. I also have not noticed any mood enhancement, performance enhancement etc. I have a follow up Dr appointment Tuesday and will have blood testing do
ne again. It is too late to get numbers before TRT, other than those already provided, but have gathered these tests from the stickies:
TT
FT
E2
Prolactin
DHT
LH/FSH
PSA
TSH
Ft3
fT4
ADRINAL LABS:
Cortisol 4 sample saliva testing
Pregnenolone
DHEA
DHEA-S
Are there any I am missing?
Since gel hasnt done shit, what should I ask my Dr. for in a perfect world? He’s pretty open amd my
my insurance is great. Thx!!!
The most important numbers requested are LH and FSH, which would determine is you have primary or secondary hypogonadism. Your doc should have tested for these. If primary, TRT is the only option. If secondary, pituitary output is low and that can be for a variety of reasons. BUT, they can sometimes be fixed and you won’t need TRT.
Two pumps of androgel (hopefully 1.62%, not 1%) is a low and conservative dose. The dose should be to alleviate the symptoms and improve quality of life, not to get you within the medically “accepted” range. Also, some just do not absorb testosterone topically, which may indicate and issue with your thyroid. Need subsequent T tests to confirm.
I began TRT on topical testosterone. It took me about a month before I ever began to notice any kind of improvement. I was absorbing it, though.
Thanks for the fast response Kaynon. I do not see LH or FSH results from original blood work so Ill be sure to ask for those on Tuesday. I have been on the 1.62% gel and have yet to feel anything. Thought I did the first 2-3 days but that had to be in my head. My Dr. said he would like me to be at and maintain a 900-1000 level and is open as far as listening to his patients. He’s been great. I was placed on TRT based simply on a test result of 157 which he said was extremely low. He suggests that anyone under 300 begin TRT as it needs to be treated. Those 300-700 he says have to weigh benefits and if improvements are noticed. So I am going to ask to begin weekly injections of 100 mg Test, 250 iu hCG (evry other day), and 1 mg arimidex. Is this shooting for the stars? Also, should I supplement with DHEA, Saw Palmetto, Pygeum, and/or Melatonin? I am hoping to take advantage of this new source of T to put on muscle and lose some belly fat as well hoping to really go from 200 lbs (not a bad build but have handles and belly fat) down to a vascular 180 lbs. Doing RushFit and maintaining roughly 1500-2000 calories a day (usually 1800-2000 but workout subtracts 300-400 daily so I am at a caloric deficit with a usual breakdown of 45 protein, 30 carb 25 fat) after years of overeating garbage and not working out. Somehow I maintained a pretty mascular physique through all that. Good genetics I guess coupled with decades of doing it right before I lost all motivation. Any other suggestions?
Thanks for the fast response Kaynon. I do not see LH or FSH results from original blood work so Ill be sure to ask for those on Tuesday. I have been on the 1.62% gel and have yet to feel anything. Thought I did the first 2-3 days but that had to be in my head. My Dr. said he would like me to be at and maintain a 900-1000 level and is open as far as listening to his patients. He’s been great. I was placed on TRT based simply on a test result of 157 which he said was extremely low. He suggests that anyone under 300 begin TRT as it needs to be treated. Those 300-700 he says have to weigh benefits and if improvements are noticed. So I am going to ask to begin weekly injections of 100 mg Test, 250 iu hCG (evry other day), and 1 mg arimidex. Is this shooting for the stars? Also, should I supplement with DHEA, Saw Palmetto, Pygeum, and/or Melatonin? I am hoping to take advantage of this new source of T to put on muscle and lose some belly fat as well hoping to really go from 200 lbs (not a bad build but have handles and belly fat) down to a vascular 180 lbs. Doing RushFit and maintaining roughly 1500-2000 calories a day (usually 1800-2000 but workout subtracts 300-400 daily so I am at a caloric deficit with a usual breakdown of 45 protein, 30 carb 25 fat) after years of overeating garbage and not working out. Somehow I maintained a pretty mascular physique through all that. Good genetics I guess coupled with decades of doing it right before I lost all motivation. Any other suggestions?
I have never seen an instance where a topical testosterone got anyone to 900-1000 on TT, personally. Not to mention 2 pumps of androgel. He seems to be fixated on supplementing low T with T, which makes sense if you are primary, but is less than optimal if you are secondary. Most doctors (even endocrinologists) do not have a firm grasp on the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis (HPTA). Hell, I don’t think anyone REALLY does. It’s a complicated beast.
Anyhow, the protocol you suggest is spot on. This protocol takes the worry of “am I absorbing T?” out of the equation. It has it’s nuances and difficulties, but most have success with it. Give it at least a month to see where you’re at before re-testing. In the mean time, get the blood tests for your adrenals and thyroid, so if you aren’t feeling more energetic, you can look elsewhere. 4-point cortisol test is key.
Other supplements:
Vitamin-D 8,000-10,000/day
Probiotic (one from a vitamin shop, not CVS)
Good multi-vitamin
Iodine (iodoral is what most of us use. You can buy it on Amazon)
That’s all I take, in addition to some adrenal supplements. I’m not sold on supplementing DHEA. I tried it and the only thing that changed on blood tests was my E2 doubled. It’s been said on here before that some freely convert DHEA to E2. Others might disagree, but I would drop it.
Had a follow-up today and spoke to the dr about everything I read here. He was already aware of it as he READS this as well!!! He didn’t do further blood tests as he said since there was no improvement I most likely am still in the tank. He injected 400 of test and told me to continue gel.
He said to come back in 2 weeks for another 400 and then 2 weeks after that he would check all levels with a complete workup and see if we are on the right path or if an endo is needed. He said there are always more invasive and expensive routes to go but, due to my age (over 40) he prefers conservative approach. He said if I was younger he would have involved an endo almost immediately. What do u all think?
