Low Testosterone Level

Hi folks

This is my first post. I am 43 years old and trying to build muscles. I always felt weak and found hard to lift weights. After reading the messages, I ordered a blood test online (with-out going through a doctor). My testosterone is 229 NG/DL. I am a bit scared for testosterone shots due to side effects. I am also currently trying to cut and do fasted cardio for I hour in Empty stomach.

MY question is : Does Fasted Cardio reduces testosterone? Are there any other way to increase testosterone levels naturally (to 500 NG/DL) without taking shots?

Thanks for your for responses

Couldn’t tell you much about fasted cardio (even though I disagree with it) reducing testosterone, but not all forms of testosterone are injectable. There are topical gels available as well.

[quote]seth64 wrote:
Hi folks

This is my first post. I am 43 years old and trying to build muscles. I always felt weak and found hard to lift weights. After reading the messages, I ordered a blood test online (with-out going through a doctor). My testosterone is 229 NG/DL. I am a bit scared for testosterone shots due to side effects. I am also currently trying to cut and do fasted cardio for I hour in Empty stomach.

MY question is : Does Fasted Cardio reduces testosterone? Are there any other way to increase testosterone levels naturally (to 500 NG/DL) without taking shots?

Thanks for your for responses[/quote]

Here’s a page from the Life Extension Foundation with information on natural testosterone boosting.

How well you respond to natural methods is different for everyone.

Serum levels of testosterone are higher post-exercise, but the rise is not due to increased production. The rise is due to lower plasma volume and that exercise slows the metabolic clearing of testosterone. It’s not a real increase in testosterone. “Prolonged” exercise decreases testosterone production by about 10%.

One of the best things anyone can do to help with testosterone is to lose fat. Fat produces both estradiol and aromatase, so limiting how much fat you have is a good thing in lots of ways.

Perfectly understandable and sensible, however, “side effects” are easily controlled and don’t forget that low testosterone isn’t just an inconvenience. Low testosterone is associated with cardiovascular disease, metabolic disorder, loss of bone density, depression, poor cognition, low libido and poor sexual functioning.

I believe that natural methods are a valid psychological step for guys to go through while they educate themselves about TRT. They might even help a few guys who have borderline problems and who are good responders.

Strength issues can be related to testosterone, but it is far more likely that simply training correctly will make the biggest difference in that area. We’ve all known little wiry guys that didn’t carry much muscle mass but who were quite strong and that is because strength is largely a CNS issue.

Sure, guys who are already highly trained do have increases in strength with higher testosterone levels, but untrained guys who start training also can have very significant increases in strength with no testosterone increases.

WE NEED A STRONGER STATEMENT HERE.

For really low levels of T, these “natural methods” will simply be ineffective as well as having a horrible cost:benefit ratio.

There are no negative side effects to TRT when done properly. AI keeps E down which is a positive change for the prostate. E is the biggest driver of BPH. Lower E also improves mood, clarity of thought and avoids any possibility of gyno. Lowering E can improve urine flow for many who have the typical age related prostate changes [which were probably cause by increased E and E:T ratios].

HCG maintains the function and health of the testes, as well as fertility and sexual self image. Maintaining the the testes also maintains the principle source of pregnenolone in males, which is important for mental health as the brain uses pregnenolone to produce important [non systemic] neural steroids.

TRT improves insulin sensitivity and can eliminate the need for insulin drugs or insulin for some. That has huge effects on QOL and life expectancy.

TRT improves endothelial function which has profound QOL and life expectancy effects for the brain, arteries, kidneys and liver; things that are greatly threatened by “hardening/scarring of the arteries” - diminished blood circulation. Some ED problems are from damage to blood vessels in the penis.

Where there are symptoms of problems from increased E2 levels or atrophy of the testes, this is a side effect of a doctor that simply has no idea of what he/she is doing. They are simply doing things wrong and have not learned or refuse to learn.

The challenge is finding the right doctor. We need to attribute side effects to doctors, not TRT/HRT.

Proper TRT/HRT is increasing T and keeping E in balance. Increasing T leads to very little LH and hCG is used in place of LH as part of hormone restoration. T, E and hCG [in place of LH] -all need to be managed, like three legs of a tripod.

Some will suffer more hair loss, but for those, they are programed for that in response to normal levels of DHT. When T is restored, DHT is also restored. Note that E has more negative effects on the prostate than DHT or T. Taking anti DHT drugs can cause profound harm for few. We see this reported here, but doctors and drug companies will not disclose any of that.

TRT done right as T+hCG+AI really does not have any negative side effects.

The side effects of doing nothing about otherwise age driven decreases in T and increases in E are loss of insulin sensitivity or frank diabetes, arterial disease, loss of QOL, disability, heart attacks, ED, loss of libido, stokes, mental decline, apathy/passiveness, loss of a sex life, muscle wasting, fat gain, loss of a sense of well-being.

Many things typically attributed to age are simply driven by correctable hormone changes. These can be substantially corrected or avoided.

It is hard to get the full picture out when the web and media do not. Very few will ever understand or even know that there are such things to be understood. Ignorance and apathy will prevail.

[quote]KSman wrote:
WE NEED A STRONGER STATEMENT HERE.

For really low levels of T, these “natural methods” will simply be ineffective as well as having a horrible cost:benefit ratio.

There are no negative side effects to TRT when done properly. AI keeps E down which is a positive change for the prostate. E is the biggest driver of BPH. Lower E also improves mood, clarity of thought and avoids any possibility of gyno. Lowering E can improve urine flow for many who have the typical age related prostate changes [which were probably cause by increased E and E:T ratios].

HCG maintains the function and health of the testes, as well as fertility and sexual self image. Maintaining the the testes also maintains the principle source of pregnenolone in males, which is important for mental health as the brain uses pregnenolone to produce important [non systemic] neural steroids.

TRT improves insulin sensitivity and can eliminate the need for insulin drugs or insulin for some. That has huge effects on QOL and life expectancy.

TRT improves endothelial function which has profound QOL and life expectancy effects for the brain, arteries, kidneys and liver; things that are greatly threatened by “hardening/scarring of the arteries” - diminished blood circulation. Some ED problems are from damage to blood vessels in the penis.

Where there are symptoms of problems from increased E2 levels or atrophy of the testes, this is a side effect of a doctor that simply has no idea of what he/she is doing. They are simply doing things wrong and have not learned or refuse to learn.

The challenge is finding the right doctor. We need to attribute side effects to doctors, not TRT/HRT.

Proper TRT/HRT is increasing T and keeping E in balance. Increasing T leads to very little LH and hCG is used in place of LH as part of hormone restoration. T, E and hCG [in place of LH] -all need to be managed, like three legs of a tripod.

Some will suffer more hair loss, but for those, they are programed for that in response to normal levels of DHT. When T is restored, DHT is also restored. Note that E has more negative effects on the prostate than DHT or T. Taking anti DHT drugs can cause profound harm for few. We see this reported here, but doctors and drug companies will not disclose any of that.

TRT done right as T+hCG+AI really does not have any negative side effects.

The side effects of doing nothing about otherwise age driven decreases in T and increases in E are loss of insulin sensitivity or frank diabetes, arterial disease, loss of QOL, disability, heart attacks, ED, loss of libido, stokes, mental decline, apathy/passiveness, loss of a sex life, muscle wasting, fat gain, loss of a sense of well-being.

Many things typically attributed to age are simply driven by correctable hormone changes. These can be substantially corrected or avoided.

It is hard to get the full picture out when the web and media do not. Very few will ever understand or even know that there are such things to be understood. Ignorance and apathy will prevail.
[/quote]

Thanks so much for the information you provide. It is extremely helpful. To be honest until I found this site I thought I was the only one dealing with these issues. I didn’t realize other people were going through the samethings I’m feeling and seeing.

Well then what is the best ways to raise t levels.

1st of all, outstanding post KSman, as usual. I do have some differences of opinion, which may be due to my ignorance of the specific chemistry involved with testosterone production. Nevertheless, I’ll state them below:

[quote]KSman wrote:

HCG maintains the function and health of the testes, as well as fertility and sexual self image. Maintaining the the testes also maintains the principle source of pregnenolone in males, which is important for mental health as the brain uses pregnenolone to produce important [non systemic] neural steroids.
[/quote]

hCG, as you have mentioned, is merely an LH analog. LH stimutes the leydig cells of the testes to produce testosterone. As I understand it, FSH is the main stimulatory hormone that stimulates the testes to produce sperm. I don’t believe hCG is an analog for FSH, and therefore shouldn’t really be stated as a fertility booster. But, as I said, I could be wrong and write this in an effort to seek other opinions or facts the smart folks on this board could provide.

Respectfully, in my opinion, going this route is only for those who have formally determined that the testes are NOT responding to the LH produced by the pituitary. If this is the case, then the leydig cells are either totally shot (afterwhich it wouldn’t make much sense to use hCG as the LH analog…there’s a signal, but the machinery ain’t working) or partially shot. If partially shot, then hCG might be a reasonable thing to use in conjuction with the T and AI as you mentioned.

IF the problem is with the pituitary or the hypothalamus for some reason, then it does indeed pay for the individual to at least try some of the other protocols aimed at attempting to increase LH production naturally. By naturally I mean coaxing your own body to produce the LH…the only way I know how to do this is via Clomid, Arimidex, or Novaldex.

Spot on, and very eloquently written.

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Despite today’s Atomic Dog I think I’d have to give KSman a hug after reading his post.[/quote]

I have been re-reading some threads and learn from KSman every day. There is a lot of smart guys on this site and you have to be impressed with their dedication to other members. KNB is also very knowledgeable.

A former doctor of mine said that the production of T in the testes due to HCG stimulates the sertoli cells to take whatever small of FSH amount the receive and make some sperm.

I’d disagree a bit with KSman, as we simply don’t know all the long-term interactions of messing with hormone levels. In another 5-10 years with the large cohort currently taking TRT, we will have a better sense of long-term effects just as we did with the estrogen replacement therapy experiment with women.

But as KSman rightly pointed out, the known side effects seem manageable and don’t compare to the known effects of very low T. I’d want to make sure I had a doc who specialized in metabolic medicine such as an endocrinologist or some gerontologists if I were undergoing treatment, as they are most knowledgeable at safe treatment regimes and monitoring possible effects. If any just prescribe you T, but don’t order ongoing monitoring, find another doc.

There are some known suppressors of T that you’ll want to address if they apply to you even if you undergo therapy. Alcohol, deficiencies in key micro & macro nutrients (EFAs, some minerals, etc.), and too much body fat all can contribute to lower T levels from everything I’ve read, and taking care of these are no brainers from a general health perspective anyway.

A good doctor in this area should discuss and explore these and review all medications you are taking to make sure there aren’t some that could also be contributing to your problem. If they just look at a blood test and write out a script, again I’d look for another doc.

One thing they will not discuss is the implications of eating foods that have been given hormones and other junk that might mess with your hormone levels. Especially, if you eat lots of fatty animal products, I’d consider trying to make sure these are more often than not hormone-free or organic, etc. There has been very little study of the impacts of what is being done to a lot of livestock on our metabolisms (incl. hormones). There may not be much impact, but I tend to take the prudent avoidance of risk approach in the absence of enough good info.

Good luck!

Thank you for your help. Learning a lot from this forum. especially from KSman. He has been very supportive and has been guiding me the next steps.

I just came across this forum by accident, boy what a life saver this has been

Thank again Every one; I will keep you all updated on how I progress

[quote]seth64 wrote:
Hi folks

This is my first post. I am 43 years old and trying to build muscles. I always felt weak and found hard to lift weights. After reading the messages, I ordered a blood test online (with-out going through a doctor). My testosterone is 229 NG/DL. I am a bit scared for testosterone shots due to side effects. I am also currently trying to cut and do fasted cardio for I hour in Empty stomach.

MY question is : Does Fasted Cardio reduces testosterone? Are there any other way to increase testosterone levels naturally (to 500 NG/DL) without taking shots?

Thanks for your for responses

[/quote]
I’ve been slow to read this thread, but I see our major HRT pros had already done their usual excellent job explaining the process.

 I have more questions than answers. Clearly, a total T of 229 is clinically low and in most circumstances would call for TRT. But you only mentioned the problem building muscle. Did you have any other symptoms of low T, such as sexual dysfunction, reduced libido, cognitive deficits (brain fog), depression, irritability or insomnia? The case for HRT is much stronger if you have any symptoms such as these. 

And as you have locked into KSman’s knowledge, you would certainly probably know now that total T alone gives an extremely limited snapshot of how your total endocrine system is doing. Many other hormones in the HPTA axis as well as outside of it can play roles in both your lowered T and your difficulties in building muscle.

Just so you know, I take TRT and it has helped me enormously, but it has been a rocky road at times and is not yet perfect science in my opinion. It is, however, the best science we have for primary hypogonadism-and if you indeed have this (dysfunctional testes), you should seek to find out possible causes besides just “aging.”

In my case, I was diagnosed with infertility after having difficulty having our only child, and large varicoceles were thought to possibly be the culprit. In hindsight I believe I ended up with a T lower than yours through a variety of mechanisms, varicocles being only one of them. Stress, weight gain, chronic insomnia, and hypothyroidism were some of the others.

Please do yourself a favor and get to the root of the problem, if you can, before simply getting on TRT to build muscles. Doc

Where did you get an online test for testosterone?

Edit…never mind…found one. Thanks.

Reading threads like this made me pay attention to my T levels. 2 years ago I was 40 pounds overweight, untrained with a 90 pound bench press 1RM and my T level was 307 ng/dl. I’ve been working out for the past 7 months, lost 35 pounds, raised my 1RM bench to 170 pounds and my T level measured a couple weeks ago is 613 ng/dl. Normal range for my age (44) is 241-827 so I’m pleased with my T level.

To answer the original question, I’d give yourself some time (6 months) of lifting and doing cardio to see if your T levels go up naturally.

[quote]Lenny99 wrote:
Reading threads like this made me pay attention to my T levels. 2 years ago I was 40 pounds overweight, untrained with a 90 pound bench press 1RM and my T level was 307 ng/dl. I’ve been working out for the past 7 months, lost 35 pounds, raised my 1RM bench to 170 pounds and my T level measured a couple weeks ago is 613 ng/dl. Normal range for my age (44) is 241-827 so I’m pleased with my T level.

To answer the original question, I’d give yourself some time (6 months) of lifting and doing cardio to see if your T levels go up naturally.[/quote]

Lenny,
You are a one in a million example of somebody who had significant T level raised by changing his life style including diet. Unfortunately the other 999,+ men will not have those same results. I am guessing without knowing your previous E levels, they were quite high, and were causing your T levels to plummet. Body fat holds E, and E creates body fat.It’s a vicious circle for most of us too. We men got a raw deal when we were designed to have less T with more E available. That’s probably why the average 59 year old man today has higher E levels than the average 55 year old woman.
You got really, really lucky. The rest of us didn’t or won’t. BTW, as stated in previous posts, lifting and cardio do not cause drastic increases in T levels. Read all posts by KSman.

I only wrote this to not falsely raise the hopes for those that won’t respond like you did. No offense intended.

No offense taken.

There are a lot of websites touting diet and exercise as a way to boost testosterone levels naturally so I just assumed this was the norm. How much of an increase there will be, they don’t say. I will certainly yield to what you and KSman have to say as you seem to have a LOT more experience in this area than my N=1 experience. I have no idea what my estrogen level was/are so I will assume your theory is correct.

KNB, I agree with you that Lenny99 was very fortunate to double his T with diet and exercise alone. But one in a million? I don’t know about that, I think there are so many variables at play here. For starters- age. In hindsight, I know my T started heading south at age 30-35. I think I fended off the major symptoms of T deficiency with good diet and exercise (even though it was Men’s Health exercise) all the way until I was 45, when my car accident sidelined me. Then I couldn’t compensate any longer. Of course I was in denial for the next five years, but thats another story.
I just think we should study people like Lenny like a lab rat (again, no offense Lenny) to see what mechanisms really reversed in him. Maybe he had sub clinical hypothyroidism or metabolic syndrome also, and these were reversed by his diet and exercise (just an example). I also think if he had tried to do this at 53 instead of 43, the odds of his doing this would have been…maybe one in a million!
Of course, lowering E had to play a role in it, I’m just not sure it was everything.
Interesting twist on this thread. Doc

Dr. PC and KNB and Lenny99, I think your recent discussion shows there’s a difference between “side-effect” hypogonadism due to crappy diet and lack of fitness, verses the actual disease of secondary or primary hypogonadism.

For men like me that have decent testes but a problem with the pituitary gland, no amount of eating right and training hard is going to fix things. That little dingaling in the middle of my brain is broken, and I think that’s the case for many candidates for TRT that would benefit from “a change in lifestyle.”

Believe me, I wish I could do this naturally. Today I got a nice big hematoma from my injection. Scared the crap outta me. But, IM T injections (+hcg+adex) have been the most effective TRT for me. With appropriate TRT, I can now see the fruits of “a change in lifestyle” because I am getting the exogenous help.

Hope that makes sense.

[quote]bigdawg011 wrote:
Dr. PC and KNB and Lenny99, I think your recent discussion shows there’s a difference between “side-effect” hypogonadism due to crappy diet and lack of fitness, verses the actual disease of secondary or primary hypogonadism.

Hope that makes sense.[/quote]

This is an excellent point. In medicine, sometimes we layer it out one more layer and call it "tertiary." I agree that this side-effect hypogonadism is at a third level (not originating directly from testicular or pituitary disease). I think this distinction is important, not to minimize it, but to clarify cause and best treatment plan.      Doc