Low Carb Eating and Insomnia

Diet and Nutrition
1

So I’ve noticed that if my carbohydrate intake goes down to about 150g a day (and caloric intake stays the same) then I start to get really bad insomnia. Can’t get to sleep, can’t stay asleep.

Anyone else had this problem/has any idea why it’s happening? Doc has no idea, and there’s a really long wait to see a specialist.

By way of background:
I’m eating about 3000 calories a day (this is my maintenance level). Recently I tried being mostly Paleo, i.e. I cut out grains and milk. felt so amazing, energy levels were stable, bloat was gone. But as soon as I reduced carbohydrates in my diet (not eating grains makes reducing carbohydrates very easy), I noticed that my sleep wasn’t as amazing as it used to be. still pretty good though.

my eating before Paleo was about 260g carbohydrate, 260g protein, 100g fat.

After paleo I started mucking around with my macro ratios. when carbohydrates were about 200g (and protein 260g and fats 120g), sleep was not as amazing as it used to be. still pretty good though.

after a couple of weeks of this, I took carbohydrates down to about 150g (protein 260g, fats 160g). immediately my sleep went to shit (2 hours a night of sleep). couldn’t get to sleep, couldn’t stay asleep.

tried to stick it out for several days, to see if my body would adjust. it didn’t, it just got worse.

carbohydrates are now back up to their original levels, thanks to rice and potatoes. I’m now getting about 6 hours of sleep a night, hoping that I’ll be able to get back to my usual 7.5-8 hours.

any ideas what’s going on??

2

lack of carbs tends to decrease your serotonin levels. you can try some 5htp about an hour before bed, it helps alot of us low carbers get to sleep.

3

thanks for your help.

5htp is only available with a prescription from a doctor here in Oz, as is melatonin :frowning:

I get the link between seratonin and carbs, I just didn’t think that 150g a day was so low carb that it would destroy my sleep.

also any idea why my sleep isn’t back to where it was? do i need to build up the level of seratonin again or something?

4

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
lack of carbs tends to decrease your serotonin levels. you can try some 5htp about an hour before bed, it helps alot of us low carbers get to sleep.[/quote]

Huh? Serotonin is made from tryptophan(An amino acid).

How does low carb have a direct or indirect affect on serotonin production? I’m not seeing the connection of the top of my head.

5

[quote]-MF- wrote:

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
lack of carbs tends to decrease your serotonin levels. you can try some 5htp about an hour before bed, it helps alot of us low carbers get to sleep.[/quote]

Huh? Serotonin is made from tryptophan(An amino acid).

How does low carb have a direct or indirect affect on serotonin production? I’m not seeing the connection of the top of my head. [/quote]

It is an indirect kind of effect. Tryptophan needs to cross the blood brain barrier, but the transporter required to transport tryptophan also transports other amino acids. Insulin (stimulated by carbohydrate intake obviously) causes the uptake of many of these competing amino acids into the tissues (like muscle). Insulin does not have this same effect on tryptophan, leaving tryptophan in the blood. Thus tryptophan does not have to compete as much to cross the blood brain barrier and can go on to be converted to serotonin.

6

Hey there.

I saw your post after some googling. I was wondering, how long until you started sleep normally?

I decreased my carbs a bit too much and I have had insomnia for about 6 weeks. After reintroducing carbs, I am sleeping more soundly but Im still not quite there yet. How long did it take you to recover your sleep?

7

Hey andri … it took me a while before i started getting a good sleep again, even after i changed my diet back to normal. The things i tried which did not help in the slightest were: listening to a meditation tape, taking magnesium and/or 5HTP and/or melatonin about 30 mins before i went to bed, drinking herbal tea before bed, eating heaps of carbs, taking sleeping pills (temazapam) - these will knock you out but the sleep is so shitty and i felt so useless the next day that i stopped taking them. you could try these, but i had no luck.

after a couple of months of trying all these, i finally saw a sleep specialist. their advice was:
(a) it will take UP TO 3-4 weeks to adjust to a sustantially different macro combination, but the body will adjust fine
(b) only go to bed when tired - the brain goes through a cycle every 90-120 minutes. when youre feeling heaps tired (ie the bottom of the cycle) then go to bed. otherwise, read a book in low light. if you miss the low point, then wait for the next one.
(c) no blue light (tv, computer etc) in the hour before bed. though, there is an app called f.lux which helps with this.
(d) if you’re not asleep within 20 mins, get up and read a book UNTIL TIRED, and then go to bed.
(e) related to (b) and (d), you need to associate your bed with sleeping. if you cant sleep in it, then get up. if this persists, find a different bed to sleep in. this worked an absolute treat for me. i had such a bad association with my bed but as soon as i changed beds i was fine.

basically, it had got to the stage where my sleeping problems really were “all in my head”.

anyway, hope this all helps. i did a buttload of reading into all this stuff, if youve got more questions let me know. my sleep is fine now, and i even did four months on the anabolic diet (<30 g carbs a day for 5-6 days a week). I just told myself to stick with it, and after a few days my sleep was fine.

8

[quote]david111 wrote:
Hey andri … it took me a while before i started getting a good sleep again, even after i changed my diet back to normal. The things i tried which did not help in the slightest were: listening to a meditation tape, taking magnesium and/or 5HTP and/or melatonin about 30 mins before i went to bed, drinking herbal tea before bed, eating heaps of carbs, taking sleeping pills (temazapam) - these will knock you out but the sleep is so shitty and i felt so useless the next day that i stopped taking them. you could try these, but i had no luck.

after a couple of months of trying all these, i finally saw a sleep specialist. their advice was:
(a) it will take UP TO 3-4 weeks to adjust to a sustantially different macro combination, but the body will adjust fine
(b) only go to bed when tired - the brain goes through a cycle every 90-120 minutes. when youre feeling heaps tired (ie the bottom of the cycle) then go to bed. otherwise, read a book in low light. if you miss the low point, then wait for the next one.
(c) no blue light (tv, computer etc) in the hour before bed. though, there is an app called f.lux which helps with this.
(d) if you’re not asleep within 20 mins, get up and read a book UNTIL TIRED, and then go to bed.
(e) related to (b) and (d), you need to associate your bed with sleeping. if you cant sleep in it, then get up. if this persists, find a different bed to sleep in. this worked an absolute treat for me. i had such a bad association with my bed but as soon as i changed beds i was fine.

basically, it had got to the stage where my sleeping problems really were “all in my head”.

anyway, hope this all helps. i did a buttload of reading into all this stuff, if youve got more questions let me know. my sleep is fine now, and i even did four months on the anabolic diet (<30 g carbs a day for 5-6 days a week). I just told myself to stick with it, and after a few days my sleep was fine. [/quote]

Thanks a lot for replying. I have also done an absolute ton of reading about insomnia and it seems like I am following the same path as you did.

Pills - done. Did not work and I doubt they work for any one to be honest.

Meditation/relaxation - It helps but I have remained pretty calm about the situation to be honest. Although I am now getting desperate since its been two months.

Carbs - I increased my carbs a lot… It definitely has helped. I fall asleep easier I have stopped pulling all nighters.

5-htp - It arrives on thursday. Im not sure what to expect… I have never had much success with taking any supplements or pills, so I dont know.

As far as negative connotations regarding my bedroom, yes, definitely. But I dont know if it has surpassed the physical mark and become mental. If so, then it is very much so subconscious.

I always fall asleep quite quickly… but the sleep is just so short and I usually wake 3-4 times… And even if I get 6-7 hours I still feel exhausted and worse than the day before. Does that sound like you? Im short of wondering whether I should re-double my efforts regarding the mental aspect of the insomnia. I just dont understand how subconscious issues could interrupt you when you are already asleep!

Thanks again,

Andri

9

[quote]andri wrote:

[quote]david111 wrote:
Hey andri … it took me a while before i started getting a good sleep again, even after i changed my diet back to normal. The things i tried which did not help in the slightest were: listening to a meditation tape, taking magnesium and/or 5HTP and/or melatonin about 30 mins before i went to bed, drinking herbal tea before bed, eating heaps of carbs, taking sleeping pills (temazapam) - these will knock you out but the sleep is so shitty and i felt so useless the next day that i stopped taking them. you could try these, but i had no luck.

after a couple of months of trying all these, i finally saw a sleep specialist. their advice was:
(a) it will take UP TO 3-4 weeks to adjust to a sustantially different macro combination, but the body will adjust fine
(b) only go to bed when tired - the brain goes through a cycle every 90-120 minutes. when youre feeling heaps tired (ie the bottom of the cycle) then go to bed. otherwise, read a book in low light. if you miss the low point, then wait for the next one.
(c) no blue light (tv, computer etc) in the hour before bed. though, there is an app called f.lux which helps with this.
(d) if you’re not asleep within 20 mins, get up and read a book UNTIL TIRED, and then go to bed.
(e) related to (b) and (d), you need to associate your bed with sleeping. if you cant sleep in it, then get up. if this persists, find a different bed to sleep in. this worked an absolute treat for me. i had such a bad association with my bed but as soon as i changed beds i was fine.

basically, it had got to the stage where my sleeping problems really were “all in my head”.

anyway, hope this all helps. i did a buttload of reading into all this stuff, if youve got more questions let me know. my sleep is fine now, and i even did four months on the anabolic diet (<30 g carbs a day for 5-6 days a week). I just told myself to stick with it, and after a few days my sleep was fine. [/quote]

Thanks a lot for replying. I have also done an absolute ton of reading about insomnia and it seems like I am following the same path as you did.

Pills - done. Did not work and I doubt they work for any one to be honest.

Meditation/relaxation - It helps but I have remained pretty calm about the situation to be honest. Although I am now getting desperate since its been two months.

Carbs - I increased my carbs a lot… It definitely has helped. I fall asleep easier I have stopped pulling all nighters.

5-htp - It arrives on thursday. Im not sure what to expect… I have never had much success with taking any supplements or pills, so I dont know.

As far as negative connotations regarding my bedroom, yes, definitely. But I dont know if it has surpassed the physical mark and become mental. If so, then it is very much so subconscious.

I always fall asleep quite quickly… but the sleep is just so short and I usually wake 3-4 times… And even if I get 6-7 hours I still feel exhausted and worse than the day before. Does that sound like you? Im short of wondering whether I should re-double my efforts regarding the mental aspect of the insomnia. I just dont understand how subconscious issues could interrupt you when you are already asleep!

Thanks again,

Andri[/quote]

Have you ever gotten a sleep study done, have this issues persisted for a longer duration of time? Have you recently bulked to a much higher weight then normal? Some of what your saying can be linked to possible sleep apnea but if you did have it then it would have affected your sleep for some time, unless you recently gained a lot of weight, restless leg syndrome can do similar as well… In the case of restless leg syndrome usually people just suggest getting some Zinc and Magnesium supplementation as well as Iron.

and you can probably disregard my post, just read you have only been having this go on for 6 weeks lol

10

@ David:

I feel your pain, I too am in the exact same boat. Anything under 150g carbs and that night Im feeling mentally and physically hungry throughout the night, waking in and out. I also take Elite Minerals every night. Now if I eat high carbs that day/night (which I do on Saturdays), even waking up and grabbing something small…I sleep deep like a baby.

I’m wondering if this affects people more who have low serotonin levels to begin with in general? There may be something to that…

11

Chemical balance may play a part in this more than just the diet and exercise we are doing. This is what I’m thinking per your experiments. We may just do better on moderate carb diets, lowering all other macros and being strict.

I don’t think “taking anything” to deal with the situation chronically is the answer. It may just be in the genes.

12

You can try the Z-12 from the T Nation store here - it works much better than melatonin for me personally.

13

I have the same issue and found that taking St. Johnswort and 1000 mg Tryptophan about an hour before bed gave me deep restful sleep. St. Johnswort acts as an MAOI so what I deduced is that the tryptophan helped increase brain serotonin and the st johnswort kept these levels in circulation for longer than usual, thus enhancing relaxation and sleep. I also take a calcium/vit D, fish oil, and magnesium supplement before bed.

Just what has worked for me during very low carb or fasting periods.

14

[quote]andri wrote:

[quote]david111 wrote:
Hey andri … it took me a while before i started getting a good sleep again, even after i changed my diet back to normal. The things i tried which did not help in the slightest were: listening to a meditation tape, taking magnesium and/or 5HTP and/or melatonin about 30 mins before i went to bed, drinking herbal tea before bed, eating heaps of carbs, taking sleeping pills (temazapam) - these will knock you out but the sleep is so shitty and i felt so useless the next day that i stopped taking them. you could try these, but i had no luck.

after a couple of months of trying all these, i finally saw a sleep specialist. their advice was:
(a) it will take UP TO 3-4 weeks to adjust to a sustantially different macro combination, but the body will adjust fine
(b) only go to bed when tired - the brain goes through a cycle every 90-120 minutes. when youre feeling heaps tired (ie the bottom of the cycle) then go to bed. otherwise, read a book in low light. if you miss the low point, then wait for the next one.
(c) no blue light (tv, computer etc) in the hour before bed. though, there is an app called f.lux which helps with this.
(d) if you’re not asleep within 20 mins, get up and read a book UNTIL TIRED, and then go to bed.
(e) related to (b) and (d), you need to associate your bed with sleeping. if you cant sleep in it, then get up. if this persists, find a different bed to sleep in. this worked an absolute treat for me. i had such a bad association with my bed but as soon as i changed beds i was fine.

basically, it had got to the stage where my sleeping problems really were “all in my head”.

anyway, hope this all helps. i did a buttload of reading into all this stuff, if youve got more questions let me know. my sleep is fine now, and i even did four months on the anabolic diet (<30 g carbs a day for 5-6 days a week). I just told myself to stick with it, and after a few days my sleep was fine. [/quote]

Thanks a lot for replying. I have also done an absolute ton of reading about insomnia and it seems like I am following the same path as you did.

Pills - done. Did not work and I doubt they work for any one to be honest.

Meditation/relaxation - It helps but I have remained pretty calm about the situation to be honest. Although I am now getting desperate since its been two months.

Carbs - I increased my carbs a lot… It definitely has helped. I fall asleep easier I have stopped pulling all nighters.

5-htp - It arrives on thursday. Im not sure what to expect… I have never had much success with taking any supplements or pills, so I dont know.

As far as negative connotations regarding my bedroom, yes, definitely. But I dont know if it has surpassed the physical mark and become mental. If so, then it is very much so subconscious.

I always fall asleep quite quickly… but the sleep is just so short and I usually wake 3-4 times… And even if I get 6-7 hours I still feel exhausted and worse than the day before. Does that sound like you? Im short of wondering whether I should re-double my efforts regarding the mental aspect of the insomnia. I just dont understand how subconscious issues could interrupt you when you are already asleep!

Thanks again,

Andri[/quote]

in response to your questions:
(1) recovering from a severe sleep debt (which you probably had/have) can take as long as two weeks of consistently good sleep each night. this may be why you’re still feeling shit even after a good sleep. so stick at it, and get in a good routine of going to bed about the same time every night. for me, i went through a frustrating phase of good sleep one night and then bad sleep the next. but, after a while it was fine.

(2) when you’re asleep, the brain doesn’t switch off. in fact, your subconcsious can be very active, especially in REM sleep. so the brain is still ticking along. from my experience, when i know that i have to wake up early the next morning, i sleep badly as the nervousness/anxiety i am experiencing gives me a bad sleep. i’ll also wake up a lot, and sleep lightly. i find reading a book and clearing my head for 20 minutes before i go to bed really helps. also i write down any worries/things i need to remember to do the next day, so they’re out of my head and i don’t need to worry about remembering them.
so what i’m saying is, if you’re nervous or have a lot on your mind when you go to sleep, you’ll be more likely to wake up a lot in the middle of the night.
if you’re still having problems waking up, you could try using earbuds. I use Quies, they are the shit.
another possibility is that your required sleep is more than 6-7 hours. for me, i need almost 8 hours a night to feel rested. other people need more, others less.

also, you’ve probably found this site already, but if you havent there’s some interesting stuff to read http://www.sleepwarrior.com/

15

I would suggest ZMA and having your carbs for the day before bed with your last meal. Don’t worry, you won’t get fat.