Gained about 10-12lbs on my last cycle…ended start of March (Sus 250 - 500gm p/week)…I was quite pleased with my gains and my strength gains rocketed, upper body I broke my personal best’s…I ran all the PCT and thought I was doin pretty well while I recovered…anyway I had a stressfull experience at work 3 weeks ago and I have had to get my Union involved…this put me off my food (although I forced it in) and a few sleepless nights, and 2 missed meals…and, if I am honest I do trawl the internet at night till 11.15-11.30pm and never wake up refreshed and cannot gt up when my alarm goes off…around this time of work trouble 3 people said I had lost weight…in the last 3 weeks I have made extra effort with my diet, Im bulking but its pretty clean and I only have 1 cheat meal a week…I admit after my evening workout I have a PWO with fast carbs but 2 hous later I have just cottage cheese or scrambled eggs and no carbs…
Anyway…Ive lost everything, libido is ok…Im feeling deflated and despondent, I never miss training…I seem to worry a lot and lose weight quickly if I have stressfull situations…can anybody help me, is there any hope? I am looking to keep half of what I gain in any future course
sounds to me like your diet is shit. If you’re not eating to support the new muscle where do you think it’ll go? Straight to hell, that’s where.
Just chalk it up to experience and make more of an effort next time. Learn to eat.
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
sounds to me like your diet is shit. If you’re not eating to support the new muscle where do you think it’ll go? Straight to hell, that’s where.
Just chalk it up to experience and make more of an effort next time. Learn to eat.[/quote]
My diet is (training days):
Meal 1: 4 pieces of wholemeal toast and 4 scrambled eggs
Meal 2: 1 wholemeal bagel peanut butter and whey protein shake - 50gm protein
Meal 3: Rice, minced beef or chicken, rice, can of pineapple
Meal 4: Mass gainer shake - 50gm protein, 600 calories
Train
Meal 5: PWO shake w/fast carbs - 50gm protein
Meal 6: Cottage cheese w/pint of milk or can of tuna or mackeral
Could you give me your opinion of this diet as you say it may be the reason Im loosing everything
Im 42, 5"7 and 14 stone.
I think the only ‘keepable gains’ are with really mild bullshit, and even there hardly so.
I don’t believe in keepable gains. I believe when you first start cycling, you’re either on it until you achieve something big, or drop it. I REALLY don’t believe in keepable gains.
How is anyone supposed to evaluate your diet, when the total calories could be the issue, when youdont give quantities? If those are all big portions then it might not be the issue. If 'weight gainer is like 50g, and ‘whey shake’ is 10g of whey then you might not be eating enough of a particular macro.
[quote]putter2712 wrote:
How is anyone supposed to evaluate your diet, when the total calories could be the issue, when youdont give quantities? If those are all big portions then it might not be the issue. If 'weight gainer is like 50g, and ‘whey shake’ is 10g of whey then you might not be eating enough of a particular macro.[/quote]
Sorry, Ive edited it for you
Your protein sources are shit. You need more meat and more eggs.
Consider the time each amino acid source is in your bloodstream for (positive nitrogen balance) and seek to maintain this as long as possible, much like when considering injection frequencies with varying Esters of AAS compounds.
Also 2 hours between your PWO shake and solid protein meal is super fail. Close this gap to within an hour.
Whey protein is available in your bloodstream for ~40 minutes. Some meat sources eclipse 4+ hours in your bloodstream.
TBH I think you just aren’t eating enough to support any amount of appreciable muscle mass.
Also what was your ADex dosage? You weren’t running an oral as far as I can see, but water weight can still accumulate.
Cheers,
-PTD
Also do everything you can do reduce stress. Cut coffee. Take a few deep breaths through your nose and move on. Drink lots of water. Don’t worry about the weightloss, its normal when coming off.
You’re body has adapted to high androgen levels, and now without the serum your seeing a cortisol (stress) response. The last thing you need is your mind fucking everything up more 
Relax, eat, train.
some good advice from PTD there, just to add to what he’s saying:
if you aren’t gaining on that diet, then it isn’t enough. Eat more. If you still aren’t gaining then eat even more. And more. And more until you do. No one can look at your diet written down and say if it’s enough for you because only you can tell. Are you getting bigger? If yes, then good for you. If no, then eat more. It really is that simple (it’s simple, it’s no necessarily easy).
The best dietary advice I ever got was “your meals should intimidate you”.
[quote]PAINTRAINDave wrote:
Your protein sources are shit. You need more meat and more eggs.
Consider the time each amino acid source is in your bloodstream for (positive nitrogen balance) and seek to maintain this as long as possible, much like when considering injection frequencies with varying Esters of AAS compounds.
Also 2 hours between your PWO shake and solid protein meal is super fail. Close this gap to within an hour.
Whey protein is available in your bloodstream for ~40 minutes. Some meat sources eclipse 4+ hours in your bloodstream.
TBH I think you just aren’t eating enough to support any amount of appreciable muscle mass.
Also what was your ADex dosage? You weren’t running an oral as far as I can see, but water weight can still accumulate.
Cheers,
-PTD
[/quote]
I think you are right, Im not eating enough, how about a chicken breast and brocoli just before I train - its one gap where I can squeeze another small meal in. I didn’t use A-dex as I never get gyno (not prone to it) however next course I wiil def use it.
I thought I still looked lean(ish) on my course and wasn’t holding much water but a friend said she thought I looked a bit puffy - I couldn’t tell myself but seeing myself in the mirror every day you can’t see what others see anyway. I will take your advice on board I really appreciate it.
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
some good advice from PTD there, just to add to what he’s saying:
if you aren’t gaining on that diet, then it isn’t enough. Eat more. If you still aren’t gaining then eat even more. And more. And more until you do. No one can look at your diet written down and say if it’s enough for you because only you can tell. Are you getting bigger? If yes, then good for you. If no, then eat more. It really is that simple (it’s simple, it’s no necessarily easy).
The best dietary advice I ever got was “your meals should intimidate you”.[/quote]
It’s frustrating for me because I see friends who work 2 jobs, work the door and dont have any food/shakes during the evening and they look full/muscular and never seem to have this up and down weight loss like I do…I must admit I was desponsent last night, glad I posted this, let’s see how I get on.
[quote]want2getlean wrote:
I think the only ‘keepable gains’ are with really mild bullshit, and even there hardly so.
I don’t believe in keepable gains. I believe when you first start cycling, you’re either on it until you achieve something big, or drop it. I REALLY don’t believe in keepable gains.[/quote]
You really have no idea what you’re doing then.
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
[quote]want2getlean wrote:
I think the only ‘keepable gains’ are with really mild bullshit, and even there hardly so.
I don’t believe in keepable gains. I believe when you first start cycling, you’re either on it until you achieve something big, or drop it. I REALLY don’t believe in keepable gains.[/quote]
You really have no idea what you’re doing then.[/quote]
I have yet to see anyone keep a relevant ammount of gains or make enough progress clean that it justified the use of a stand alone cycle.
I’m talking about guys with all the precautions. Moderate doses, moderate length, hcg during, agressive PCT including a SARM…
The way I see it, the ‘one cycle and you’re out’ thing is bullshit. If I ever juice again, it will definitely be a blast and cruise for an indefinite ammount of time.
i did a cycle a while back and have kept all my gains.
you can absolutely keep your gains, or else what’s the point?
I don’t believe you can really keep a significant amount of gains from one cycle… because you haven’t had the muscle long enough and your body is still fighting for homeostasis. combine that with the decreased testosterone, increased cortisol and the stressful situation you are going through and its no suprised you lost the 7-8 pounds of muscle you had gained.
HOWEVER, i also don’t think it is pointless to do cycles without staying on indefinitely. If one was to continue doing cycles for awhile, something like 8 weeks on, 6 weeks off with short esters for a couple of years, they could likely come off the roids and be much more muscular then they ever could’ve without them. Yes you would EVENTUALLY lose these gains too if you never cycled again, but since your body is accustomed to the new muscle and you have been letting your naturally test recover to some degree, you could keep the gains for a long time afterward. Maybe even do a couple of cycles a year at that point to maintain the size. this is speculation of course because i havent been cycling long enough to know… does anyone here have experience with that sort of situation?
I disagree with that dbol, I think that as long as you are not over your genetic limit then you’ll keep your gains.
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
I disagree with that dbol, I think that as long as you are not over your genetic limit then you’ll keep your gains.[/quote]
fair enough. I find there are generally 2 schools of thought on this, people who think you can keep most of if not all your gains when you come off… and people who think you can barely keep any of them. I guess I’m kind of in the middle.
I do believe someone can do one cycle and keep a significant amount of the muscle they gained, just not indefinitely (unless they are relatively new to training). This is based on my limited experience and many hours of reading. I would love for someone to prove me wrong though, even anecdotally.
this does NOT apply to someone who’s far below their genetic limit, i’m talking about an experienced lifter who wants to take his physique to the next level with gear.
ah ok I think we agree on more than we disagree.
I was talking about people who have not reached their genetic limit but you were talking about people who were.
I think my own personal bias is shining through here a little. I’m not near my genetic limit but I cycle anyway…
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
i did a cycle a while back and have kept all my gains.
you can absolutely keep your gains, or else what’s the point?[/quote]
Exactly!
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
ah ok I think we agree on more than we disagree.
I was talking about people who have not reached their genetic limit but you were talking about people who were.
I think my own personal bias is shining through here a little. I’m not near my genetic limit but I cycle anyway…[/quote]
I think you are right. we were just talking about different situations. I actually cycled no where near my genetic limit as well. I had always trained on and off and did tons of research, so when I cycled i wasn’t very developed, but I knew exactly what and how much food my body needed to grow as i had done it before.
recently I stopped training and my diet went to shit for 2-3 months (exams and lack of motivation), and due to my ridiculously fast metabolism I pretty much lost all the gains from my last cycle. Instead of cycling again to get them back, I’ve decided to do it naturally, and do my next cycle when i get back to my previous highest weight. So far the muscle has come extremely fast, which is I guess another benefit to doing a few cycles and going off, the whole muscle memory aspect seems to be really helping me.
I can’t say it would work that way for someone that was closer to their genetic limit then me, but I thought it was relevant to this thread none the less.