Losing That Last Stubborn 2% BF

Diet and Nutrition
1

Folks: this is my first post here. I’ve been lurking and reading the articles for some time. I love T-Nation and am constantly implementing the tips I read here into my workouts and nutritional program. Now I have a question for the experts, because if you guys can’t answer this, nobody can.

My question is fairly specific. I’m currently sitting at 8% body fat, 190 lbs. No bullshit 8% either, where I claim to be that but am actually at 12%. I’m judging this by the fact that I can see pretty good (not fabulous) abdominal definition without flexing or holding my breath, or in special lighting. I lift weights 4x/week (currently Meltdown, which is hard as hell) and I also do several GPP/conditioning workouts per week, incorporating things like tire-flipping, sandbag carries, farmer’s walks, etc. I usually go 5 rounds on the heavy bag once a week, jump rope, and run sprints. This probably sounds like overtraining, but I’m just giving you a laundry list… I typically do one main session 6 out of 7 days and often add a very brief (15 min. tops) high-intensity session of jumprope or sprints on maybe 4 of those days, in the afternoon.

I’ve been at around 8% for most of the year and wondered if anyone who’s gotten lower than that could offer up any hints as to how to do it. I’m shooting for 6%. The reasons are 50% vanity and 50% because I enjoy a challenge and enjoy seeing how far I can go. If I can get to the 6%, I hold no unrealistic expectations about staying there all year long. Just want to see if I can be there for a while.

I’ve eaten clean for years… usually a “Zone” type diet. I almost never eat processed foods, and almost never eat white flour, sweets, packaged snack foods, HFCS, etc. Most of what I eat I can imagine growing, walking, or being milked from a cow in the not too distant past. So I’m normally around 40/30/30, with almost all of the carbs coming from fruits, vegetables, and dairy. Protein comes from red meat, chicken, and whey powder. I’m not afriad of fats if they’re from meat or dairy. And yes, I get plenty of “good” fats too, from olive oil, fish oil supps, avocadoes, peanuts, and so on.

One thing: I realize that John Bernardi just ran his “Get Shredded” diet. If anyone feels that the GS diet is the way to eat to do this, then please just tell me. It’s a bit too intense for my personality (I tried it for a week and the tedium and hunger were not cool) and if this is truly the only way, let me know and I’ll maybe have to let it go. Please don’t flame me for having the answer in my hand (if it’s the GS diet) and wussing out on it. I freely admit that I’m going to wuss out if this is the only way to lose that last 2%. Or maybe someone will convince me that this is the only way, and so maybe I’ll force myself to do it. Who knows.

I’m currently trying the anabolic diet (read through much, but nowhere near all, of the “My Experience on the Anabolic Diet” monster thread, as well as part I and II of the AD article from around 2003). This is in some ways more intense, but the weekend carb-ups help. The challenge I’m having with it is that “incidental” carbs are everywhere and add up fast, so if you want to stay under the limit of 30g/day, you can’t get much fruit or vegetables.
Something rubs me the wrong way about not eating veggies and fruits. And also, it’s blueberry season around here.

Again, if the AD is the way to go, just let me know and maybe I’ll tough it out.

Wondering, in short, what nutrition programs you guys who’ve gotten to around 6% have used to get there. Is ultra-low-carb the only solution? I’m NOT afraid of hard work or discipline, but I do need to weigh how badly I want to get to 6% if it entails such a restrictive (carb-wise) approach.

I’m also diabetic, which is tricky because if my blood sugar drops after my workouts, guess what I need to eat? Carbs! So much for having enough left for fruit and veggies.

I tend to work very hard (but still believe I rest adequately), and am interested in hearing how any of you have gotten to the “next level.” Been training for 13 years, so not really a noob to all of this. (I default to Westside training when I’m not dieting.)

Sorry for the length of the rant, but I tried to anticipate the questions people would ask me and just give them to you up front.

Thanks in advance, y’all.

2

Yes, the Get Shredded Diet is probably the way to go. But JB has said it will not work as well if your metabolism is depressed. Which is the case if you’ve been following Zone calorie guidelines and not just food choices. The food choices are actually pretty solid. Look into doing Precision Nutrition for awhile till you’re firing on all cylinders. Then you can move to Get Shredded to make the final push.

3

Add 63 pounds of muscle – that will take you to 6% BF…

4

I haven’t tried it yet, but some folks are pretty excited about the results they are getting with HRX.

If you weren’t already doing something along these lines it might help drive you to a slightly lower plateau, or perhaps uncover the abs a little more.

It sounds like you’ve got a fairly solid nutrition and workout regimen in order anyway…

5

You’re only 6’ 190. Why exactly do you want to get under 8% BF?

6

Agree.

Add some muscle and it’ll be easier to cut down to 8-6 % bf.

So,you might need to do a slow,clean bulk and add some muscle before you can reseach that level of leanness.
Don’t worry ,though.

If you want to add muscle slowly so you won’t undo all your “hard work”(Personally,I don’t care.When I bulk I except some added fat and expect much gain) that would be fine.
Start out by adding 250-300 cal above your current maintanence level.

With this much added calories, you will stay below 10 % and not gain much,if any fat.
However,your gains WILL be slow.

Good luck,
Cthulhu

7

[quote]Heroin Bob wrote:
My question is fairly specific. I’m currently sitting at 8% body fat, 190 lbs. No bullshit 8% either, where I claim to be that but am actually at 12%. I’m judging this by the fact that I can see pretty good (not fabulous) abdominal definition without flexing or holding my breath, or in special lighting.[/quote]

As much as you don’t want to hear this, you probably are closer to 12%. You are “judging this by seeing your abs”. What the hell kind of body fat test is that??

Get it DEXA tested [just sign up for a bodyweight study of some kind and you’ll get one easy], or at least from a reliable doctor with a multiple site caliper test. I’ve seen so many people who “look” 8%, who when they get DEXA tests [its the most accurate on the planet that I know of] get readings of 11%'s and 12%'s.

You can get plenty of veggies on the anabolic diet, just stay away from potatoes and other highly starchy foods till the weekend. Red meat [ie. the recommended big eating food] has a fraction of a gram in a 250gram serving. So unless you have a fetish for slopping huge quantities of sauces and shit on your steak you get a meal that so far has 0 carbs. And you can eat this more then once a day, all you need is a grillpan and a heatsource.

8

I hate doctors, man. And needles.

9

Nothing beats an autopsy!

10

Thanks for all the help, guys. I really appreciate it. So here we go with the replies:

JSBROOK: I am actually NOT following the Zone’s calorie recommendations. Not really even following the Zone; it’s just a “Zone-type” diet. Although it IS possible that I’ve been under-eating all summer. I’ll check into it and see if I should add before subtracting. Thanks.

VROOM: What is HRX?

LAURIONB, PANTHER1015, AND CTHULHU: Goes to show what a hardcore place this is. I feel “big” when I browse other fitness boards at 190lbs! I noticed that Dave Tate appears pretty cut in Bernardi’s article because he simply has so much muscle, so I see where you’re going. I just wanted to cut up a bit for summer and then bulk again when shirt-off weather is over. Believe me, adding muscle is definitely on my mind. I actually hate the dieting and type of workout that seems necessary for losing fat! Looking forward to packing on some more pounds later. Not too afriad of adding fat at that point.

THE BRAIN: I’ll admit that my way is a half-assed way to measure, but I’ve found that caliper tests are typically shit and that the only thing that is accurate to any degree is hydrostatic weighing (not sure what a DEXA test is…?). Ultimately, whatever number is on the calipers, how I look in the mirror is really my gauge of success. So if I’m really at 12% now, I guess I want to get to 10%. Whatever the number, I want to lose about 2%. For the record, I know what you mean about guys thinking they’re single-digits but really being closer to 12%. I don’t think that’s me, based on some hydrostatic weighing I had in college years ago combined with how the image in the mirror has changed, but if I’m wrong, so be it. Like I said, I guess I don’t care as much about the number as I originally said.

I don’t know if I’m just more anal on the A.D. than most or if I’m just doing something wrong. But I keep finding that, you know, cheese has 1g CHO per ounce; peanuts have a few net CHO, turkey bacon has 1g… and they just seem to add up. By the end of the day I’ve got 28 CHO and nothing left. Maybe a greater proportion of meat?

Thanks again, everyone. I’ve got nothing against criticism; it’s why I’m asking. If anyone has more to say, keep it coming.

11

One quick story about the sometimes inaccurate nature of calipers: I once had my BF tested at my gym by a trainer. The guy must have been retarded because he told me I was at 3%. This was about 10 years ago and I was probably closer to 15%. At least I didn’t believe him.

Maybe if I’d been holding a shoe at the time, he would have better been able to judge my BF%.

12

Ahh,don’t worry heroin bob.
My pictures this fall will inspire you to bulk…and every other 150 pound kid with 8% bf.

13

I don’t have much to add, but I just wanted to say I love SLC punk, great film especially for a low budget.:slight_smile:

Gl and stuff to :slight_smile:

14

[quote]Heroin Bob wrote:
VROOM: What is HRX?
[/quote]

HOT-ROX Extreme? It’s the newest fat loss supplement available from Biotest? Have you been following along?

Maybe check out the product launch thread…

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1066793

15

[quote]vroom wrote:
Heroin Bob wrote:
VROOM: What is HRX?

HOT-ROX Extreme? It’s the newest fat loss supplement available from Biotest? Have you been following along?

Maybe check out the product launch thread…

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1066793[/quote]

Gotcha… I just didn’t know the “HRX” acronym. I DO know the product. I’ve been considering it… I’ll check it out. Thanks again.

Alex-P: Good catch. Other places I’ve used this screen name, people ask if I really do heroin.

Edit: Just bought a bottle of HRX. Had to go to bodybuilding.com since they’re sold out here. I’m skeptical about supplements but the comments seemed to have a lot of good stuff to say, so I’m giving it a shot. Wish me luck.

16

BTW, SLC punk is one of my favorite flicks of all time, I like your name/pic.

Good luck with the weight loss

17

I don’t think that people should judge their leaness by how ripped their abs look, flexed or unflexed. Posture plays a role there. Metabolically people store body fat in different areas. you want to talk ripped, then talk about striations in other areas like the tris, quads, delts, back, etc. also a tan help which i need desperately. laters pk

18

[quote]Heroin Bob wrote:
I’ll admit that my way is a half-assed way to measure, but I’ve found that caliper tests are typically shit and that the only thing that is accurate to any degree is hydrostatic weighing (not sure what a DEXA test is…?). Ultimately, whatever number is on the calipers, how I look in the mirror is really my gauge of success. So if I’m really at 12% now, I guess I want to get to 10%. Whatever the number, I want to lose about 2%. For the record, I know what you mean about guys thinking they’re single-digits but really being closer to 12%. I don’t think that’s me, based on some hydrostatic weighing I had in college years ago combined with how the image in the mirror has changed, but if I’m wrong, so be it. Like I said, I guess I don’t care as much about the number as I originally said.

I don’t know if I’m just more anal on the A.D. than most or if I’m just doing something wrong. But I keep finding that, you know, cheese has 1g CHO per ounce; peanuts have a few net CHO, turkey bacon has 1g… and they just seem to add up. By the end of the day I’ve got 28 CHO and nothing left. Maybe a greater proportion of meat?
[/quote]

This explains what a DEXA is - Etre conseiller en gestion de patrimoine [It also tells how much fat you have, and where. Its not just for bone density.].

If you’re on the anabolic diet, get plenty of meats - I’m really anal while on it [especially in the start up phase] - but still manage to eat 20-30 grams a day while eating pig bacon [I don’t know what turkey bacon is], eggs, cheese [I eat lots of sheep and goats milk cheeses], 100% meat sausages, steaks, fish [inc oysters and mussels], and a heap of veggies with dinner [in stews, kebabs, in a pile on the side of the meat, in stirfrys, etc.].

After the first two weeks you can up carbs to a max of 40 grams if you feel you need them to get more vegetables in.

My biggest tip for the anabolic diet is to start doing 90% of your groceries at a “farmers markets” type day [thats what mines called] - Its where all the produce farmers bring their fresh produce to sell direct to market goers, and also has fresh meat, fish, poultry, cheese, and coffee people.

Doing this I have halved my grocery bill, and I’m eating fresher, tastier food then I was before. It also means you aren’t going to get pre-prepared meat, thats loaded up with CHO in the sauce. When I cook with a sauce, I make a home made pesto out of sundried tomatoes, fresh herbs, and olive or peanut oils. All of which have minimum CHO.

You can also find low-carb cookbooks these days, which often have excellent recipies in them [due to the Atkins diets popularity], and even if they have some carbs, if you save the carb allowance up till dinner you should have plenty to spare [and can feed dinner guests healthy food, without them wondering why dinner is strange.].

Hope any of the above ramblings help, all the best getting to where you want bro.

19

Heroin Bob,

Did you say you were following the AD or you’re thinking of following the AD?

If you are on the AD already, what do your daily calorie levels look like? How long have you been eating at those levels? What do your CHO ups look like?

Answers those few questions and hopefully we can get you going in the right direction.

Also, check out the AD thread for loads of good info.

Cheers,

Sasha

20

Brain and Sasha- thanks for the tips. Here’s my diet history recently, for clarification. NOTE: I realize that I haven’t given these diets anywhere near enough time to “work,” and I normally am not so random with my diet. But finding one I can practically use has been a bit difficult.

  1. Did Berardi’s “Get Shredded” diet for only a week. I moved to the AD because I was tired of starving all the time. (At 10xBW on that diet, I could have 1900 calories per day.) If the GS diet is the way to go in your opinion (as jsbrook said) then just let me know. I’ll need to weigh how badly I want to lose the weight because that diet is damn tough for me.

  2. As mentioned, I switched to the AD because its near-ketogenic nature sounded like it would expedite fat loss and because I could eat more on it. Plus, there were the weekly carb-ups. After the break-in period, I only did this for another week. The reason is because 1) I was having psychological difficulties with the relative lack of fruits and vegetables (a tiny half-cup of blueberries has 10g CHO, for shit’s sake) and 2) because I’m an insulin-dependent diabetic and it’s very difficult to exercise and not consume carbs. If I got a low blood sugar and needed just ONE glucose tablet (it typically takes at least two), that’s 4g CHO right there.

So I’m now flip-flopping yet again and am considering T-Dawg 2.0. It seems to combine the strengths of both programs (for me) and sounds easier to live with.

Calories:

  • Prior to starting either of these diets, I was on the diet I described in my initial post. I wasn’t tracking calories then, but I’d now guess I was getting around 3000 calories per day. It felt like dieting, but I now realize that some of the things I was eating packed a caloric punch. So that probably nudged me up to around 3000, which I believe to be about 500 calories below maintenence. Right?

  • When on Berardi’s diet, I usually came fairly close to the 1900 target. I was hungry constantly. I started tracking my calories on FitDay.com and am anal about making sure that all of the calories, protein, CHO, and fat counts are accurate and accounted for.

  • On the AD, I seem to get around 2500-3000 per day and usually am able to keep it to around 35g CHO or less.

  • Assuming I switch to T-Dawg 2.0, I was going to go with the recommendation of 15x body weight, which would be 2850. Might nudge closer to 2500. This diet will allow me to correct low blood sugars without worry and eat enough fruits and vegetables for my taste. So the only remaining question is, will it work for fat loss?

CARB UPS: I don’t tend to go crazy, but I don’t track calories here either. I eat fairly clean with some definite cheat foods/meals. I never pig out until I’m stuffed.

Oh, and I also got some HOT-ROX Extreme. I’ll give that a shot.

Thanks for your help.

PS: Love your name/avatar, Brain.