[quote]Heroin Bob wrote:
2) because I’m an insulin-dependent diabetic and it’s very difficult to exercise and not consume carbs. If I got a low blood sugar and needed just ONE glucose tablet (it typically takes at least two), that’s 4g CHO right there.
PS: Love your name/avatar, Brain.[/quote]
In honesty I have no idea what to do in the suitation of an insulin dependant diabetic [i’m insulin sensative myself] - Ketosis in diabetics is an incredibly complex issue, and its possible Doc Di Pasquale even recommended against type1 diabetics doing the Anabolic Diet.
What I’d recommend you ultimately do is post in Berardi’s locker forum thingie, explaining your suitation [especially mention insulin dependance] and ask for his diet recommendation, he is our resident expert after all.
Brain… I may just wander over to Berardi’s lockerroom and see what he thinks.
As to my situation, I’m not actually in ketosis, which isn’t too surprising given that the advanced ADers seem to say that it’s really just a NEAR-ketogenic diet. I’ve got the ketosticks to prove it. My control is incredibly tight, so really all that separates me from the rest of you is that I administer my own insulin rather than my body doing it naturally. That, and the fact that I have to correct lows manually with glucose tablets. I’m guessing that this is exacerbated on the AD because of glycogen depletion. Either way I’m guessing that switching to T-Dawg will be both easier and safer.
Training and building mass (I’m not huge yet, but I did start at around 170) as a diabetic does give you an intense understanding of nutrition and insulin balance, I’ll definitely say that.
[quote]Heroin Bob wrote:
As to my situation, I’m not actually in ketosis, which isn’t too surprising given that the advanced ADers seem to say that it’s really just a NEAR-ketogenic diet. I’ve got the ketosticks to prove it. My control is incredibly tight, so really all that separates me from the rest of you is that I administer my own insulin rather than my body doing it naturally. That, and the fact that I have to correct lows manually with glucose tablets. I’m guessing that this is exacerbated on the AD because of glycogen depletion. Either way I’m guessing that switching to T-Dawg will be both easier and safer.
[/quote]
While the AD isn’t designed as ketogenic, its easy enough to accidently slip into ketosis due to the tiny volume of carbs. Though admittedly most diabetics are usually more knowledgable / militant then that.
With the Authors Locker Room you can’t start a topic, you have to reply to one that exists. If you can’t find an appropiate topic maybe post in a newish one and appologise for the off topic question?
[quote]Heroin Bob wrote:
Brain… I may just wander over to Berardi’s lockerroom and see what he thinks.
As to my situation, I’m not actually in ketosis, which isn’t too surprising given that the advanced ADers seem to say that it’s really just a NEAR-ketogenic diet. I’ve got the ketosticks to prove it. My control is incredibly tight, so really all that separates me from the rest of you is that I administer my own insulin rather than my body doing it naturally. That, and the fact that I have to correct lows manually with glucose tablets. I’m guessing that this is exacerbated on the AD because of glycogen depletion. Either way I’m guessing that switching to T-Dawg will be both easier and safer.
Training and building mass (I’m not huge yet, but I did start at around 170) as a diabetic does give you an intense understanding of nutrition and insulin balance, I’ll definitely say that.[/quote]
Heroin Bob,
Sorry for the lack of response yesterday . . . work got in the way.
If you are in fact insulin relient due to diabetes I would steer away from the AD or Poliquin’s 4:1 very-low carbohydrate diets due to the severity of CHO swings. One thing I will say about both of those diets is ketosis is definitely not the state our body’s are in with regard to energy utilisation. On these diets we move through the ketogenic stage to become fully fat burners where we power our every day activities with fat from diet and our stores.
Anyway . . . back to your situation. From what you describe, I would say that your caloric intake is quite low, especially if that is taken on a training day. Has this been the case for a while now? I’d really like to get an idea as to whether you’ve been chronically dieting for 6 months or whether your 4-6 weeks into a cutting phase.
I think the T-Dawg 2.0 is a nice balance for you. It is very similar to Berardi’s precision nutrition protocols and can work nicely if done effectively. One thing to keep in mind is that the re-feeds/CHO loads are very important with these types of diets. We need them to reset leptin levels, replenish depleted CHO stores, increase basal metabolic rates and satisfy psychological needs.
Moving forward, if you have been chronically dieting, let’s use the T-Dawg 2.0 protocols and the current levels of calories and run with those for about 2 weeks (if you’re new to it). There, we will begin to bump up daily caolories by approximately 250-500 cals. Simultaneously, we’ll increase the amount of work you’re doing in the gym (I.e. G-Flux). We’ll conitnue to do this until it stops working.
If you haven’t been chronically dieting, let’s use the T-Dawg diet and continue in the reduce caloric state and look at your training. We’ll implement some complexes/supersets/giant sets to really get your metabolic rate moving. There, we’ll continue to drop daily calories and uping the re-feeds as you get leaner.
[quote]SashaG wrote:
If you are in fact insulin relient due to diabetes…[/quote]
Sasha… you’re thinking of the other type of diabetes. I’m insulin-dependent, or type I, sometimes also called juvenile-onset. The far more common kind is type II, which usually occurs in older and/or overweight people and is characterized by insulin resistance. I’m actually very insulin sensitive (which is a good thing).
The bigger problem for me is addressing low blood sugars without exceeding my daily CHO allowance. With all the training I do, I CAN do it, but it’s hard…
Interestingly enough, the diabetes treatment philosophy I tend to subscribe to actually advocates a diet very similar to the AD, only with fewer calories. So I know what you mean about not being in ketosis; diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) is something that’s avoided at all costs. I agree that the diet is sort of beyond simple ketone generation.
But again, I’m far more active than the typical diabetic. I’ve never heard anything about how to bodybuild, or powerlift, or generally do anything physically extreme with this condition. So it’s a wrench in the works, so to speak. I feel that a larger CHO allotment (like T-Dawg) will give me the wiggle room I need. That’s mainly why I’m moving away from the AD for now.
I negleted to mention that on training days, I do add at least one PWO drink containing 30g CHO/30g PRO, and about 250 calories. If I do a second session in a day, I add another PWO drink.
These last few weeks have been an extreme for me. I’d guess that other than these past few weeks, I probably get 3000 calories a day. But again, I hadn’t been keeping track. I’ve sort of been dieting, but not too severly. For instance, other than just recently, I never really felt hungry.
So to answer your question, I HAVE sort of been dieting since April, but have NOT been doing it to any extreme. In fact, I may inadvertantly been eating at maintenence without meaning to do so. Not sure where that puts me in your figuring.
Is this true with T-Dawg? I know it is with the AD, but I was under the impression that the “cheat” on T-Dawg was just that… a cheat, rather than a re-feed, important mainly for psychological reasons. Would you suggest that I look at the weekly cheat on T-Dawg the way that I look at the weekend CHO load on the AD? That’s good to know if so.
It’s like you’re my doctor! LOL.
My guess/impression is that this is the case, that I haven’t been chronically dieting in the sense of being calorically deprived. So I’ll start with the 18 x B.W. recommendation for T-Dawg and gradualy scale down. Agreed?
As to the training, I do feel I’ve definitely got that in line. I just finished Meltdown and have been incorporating supersets and short rest periods for some time now – a definite deviation from how I normally train. I also do quite a bit of traditional and non-traditional interval work, like strongman and/or boxing drills.
I’m really intrigued by this notion of the re-feed in the context you’re mentioning it… to sort of “reset” between weekly intervals of dieting. Are there any links you have to more on this idea? I’m guessing Bernardi must have addressed it at some point, but I must have missed it.
I’d be careful with refeeds as a diabetic. I guess you could do them. You’d just still have to watch carb intake and make wiser carb choices. But be much more liberal with protein and fat and allow yourself to exceed your normal caloric zone.
Cheers for the reply and I’m happy to help as best as I can.
I understood the type of diabetes you meant and that is why I was recommending against the AD and Poliquin’s 4:1 styled diet. It requires your blood sugar levels to rest far too low for far too long it really is a recipe for disaster.
You are also correct that refeeds/CHO loads (when following a very low carbohydrate diet) help to reset your metabolic rate, balance letpin levels (in the case of CHO loads), replenish glycogen stores and maximize the benefits from insulin (which you know way more about than I). I also agree with jsbrooks’ point on the re-feeds. You may need to be a little more careful with your food selection and not overdo the higher GI foods.
I would recommend going forward with the T-Dawg at maintenance level for one week. For week two, I suggest you drop your cals by between 250-500 per day. On the Sunday of week two, have one re-feed meal focusing on low GI, high starch-based carbs. Oatmeal, whole grain pasta, etc. This will now become a weekly thing. Week three, drop another 250 cals per day. Week four, another 250. Once we get to 2000 cals, let’s re-evaluate and see what’s next. We can either further drop the daily cals and up the frequency of the re-feeds or start waving your caloric intake throughout the week.
Hope that helps and as far as the refeed links from the authors, check out the low carbohydrate roundtable part II where one of the writers talks about CHO loads and leptin.
Okay, that’s pretty much exactly what I’m going to do… T-Dawg at maintenence and then decrease slowly. I’m also doing the Waterbury Summer Project workout, which contains a lot of supersetting, circuits, and intervals. Your advice has been very helpful. Wish me luck!