Hi there, I am a 33 y/o female looking to put on muscle mass- more of it anyway. I’ve had tremendous success with push, pull, legs but then I began the PHAT workout (PHAT training stands for Power Hypertrophy Adaptive Training and it was created by bodybuilder and powerlifter Layne Norton, who is a well respected PhD in the bodybuilding and fitness community). This program was effective but I was in the gym for no less than 2 hours a day and I simply could not sleep enough because of the heavy work load. Opinions/ideas? I’m open to suggestions.
I tried PHAT for like 2 weeks, it was brutal.
I’m not sure how developed you are, so its difficult to advise a program suited to your development.
I find Trained by Jordan Peters to be a good auto-regulation style program.
If you’ve got excellent recovery, full body every other day.
If slightly worse, maybe push/pull or upper/lower.
If worse than that, PPL.
If your recovery is attrocious, body part split.
If you particularly enjoy your powerlifts, switch over to Phraks Greyskull LP. Consider what’s written to be your ‘base program’ and add in anything else you’d like to add as ‘assistance work’.
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PHAT was brutal. I would like to try it again when work is not so demanding. I felt like 8-9 hours of sleep on that program was not nearly enough! I could definitely try full body every other day. Any templates for full body that you would suggest?
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Andrew is already answering I see and he really knows his stuff, but also
Tagging in @Dani_Shugart for a womens perspective
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I like this.
It was written as to always beat the logbook, but this becomes unsustainable at a certain point.
I now prefer to push to failure every set, regardless of weight used.
*over time, weight should increase.
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You’re not asking for advice on this, but this indicates under-recovery, not necessarily over training.
If you count macros, id be interested to know what they are.
Often times, under recovery can be offset by adding carbs and reducing fats.
Adding LISS cardio (walking, bike riding, etc) can help with recovery as well. Hitting 10k steps daily certainly helps me.
This is very helpful information. At that time, I was not going crazy over maintenance.
I realize it’s been 5 days but I missed this one. I’m surprised no one asked for photographs and your current nutrition. Those are quite useful in answering these questions.
EDIT I SEE @Andrewgen_Receptors did ask about macros but didn’t receive a response.
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Currently 125 protein, 55 fats, and 244 carbs. My original diet plan was much lower in carbs — I’m gradually increasing them and it is tough to eat all of this food but I won’t play the violin 
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No reason to be in the gym this long. As you found out it’s detrimental to recovery which impedes growth.
I’ve been using the RPHypertrophy app. It has many stock stock programs for male and female lifters and you can customize a great deal. Would highly recommend it. It is highly intuitive and takes all the guesswork out of your progressions based on the feedback you give it.
They also have a great diet app.
That being said, your pics aren’t uploading. What is your current weight and what are your goals besides mass
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Totally. This is really the crux of the thread, OP - you can do basically anything else.
What do you like to do? How many days do you want to train? Are there lifts you care about improving?
That’s kind of interesting! I’m not sure why, but I wouldn’t have guessed an App would appeal to you. I guess it’s really no different than just following a program, though.
I started with a log book and then improved that with google sheets to track what i was doing. I heard about the RP app so gave it a try. I think it is excellent at figuring out your progressions based on what you are logging and the feedback portion. You can either use their stock programs, modify and use their stock programs or create your own templates which is what i do. I’m finishing up a “bridge” program now to get me from my diet program to lifting heavier again. I’ve already started programming Grandmaster into the app for the week after next. I’ve tried a couple apps but this one allows you to also use it on a PC so it’s super easy to use. I would highly suggest it to anyone looking for structure and who wants to improve without even thinking about it. Can’t say enough good things.
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High praise! My least favorite thing to do is think, so I can see the appeal
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It’s like having a coach set your training up for you. You need need to execute. Gold IMO!!
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As said above, your pictures aren’t loading.
The biggest challenge in responding to this is not knowing your weight. You sound like you have an athletic build, so the scale number matters mostly for macro recommendations.
My standard recommendations are:
Protein: 1g/lb bodyweight
- More is not helpful unless enhanced.
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- protein is very filling so if struggling to eat your carbs as-is, this is even less desireable. We want to leave as much room for carbs as possible.
- Less is limiting recovery and muscle recruitment.
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- actual maximum absorption for naturals is 0.9g/lb, but variances allowed by FDA labelling, moisture loss, etc… all mean we should aim a little bit higher - just in case.
Fats: 0.3g/lb bodyweight
- More is not helpful unless for satiety and digestion.
- Less is likely to impair hormone production (for men and women).
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- Excess dietary fat gets stored as body fat, so I will always recommend to keep this number as low as possible while still at this target zone. (I assume this is as big of a no-no for you as it is for me)
Carbs: to fill the remainder of your calories until at caloric goal.
- If cutting, take 500cals (or 125g) away from maintenance caloric needs.
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- you can lose up to 1% bodyweight per week safely with minimal to no risk of losing muscle.
- If bulking, add 250cals (or 63g) to maintenance caloric needs.
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- the cool part about carbs is that if you overeat them - they first get stored as glycogen, then get stored as bodyfat. Whereas with dietary fat, it will get preferentially stored as body fat if glycogen stores are sufficiently full. Excess protein, on the other hand, doesn’t get stored at all.
Assess weekly with weight and pictures.
Scale weight is an incomplete metric, but it should help give quantifiable metrics for you to gauge your diet on.
Pictures are to help you see if you’re getting too fat for comfort, and stopping before it becomes too difficult to come back from. You’ll have hormonal changes that can and will make this an incomplete metric too, but at least you’ll have the data points to go back on.
You can always use things like fruit juice as an intra-workout to help get your carbs in. It’ll fuel your workout a bit better, and you’re far more likely to just burn through it than to store any of it.
Try to eat every 4-5 hours, and go for a 10 minute walk after you eat to help with digestion.
I’m on a forum with a number of dudes in the 280lb+ range and they have to force down some 7,000cals daily… they HAVE to walk or their body cannot digest it fast enough.
It might sound counterintuitive, but reducing veggies can help too.
If you decided to start a training log, I think there’d be a lot of folks here who’d enjoy following along.
*with or without pictures
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PHAT was one of my favorite programs years ago, but it is a tough one!
Layne has a number of solid programs and a subscription based workout builder on his website. If you like his programs check it out. They’re not all as intense.
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Do you see this as 0.9g/lb of “lean body mass” or just “body mass”?
I always wonder about this when I see the protein recommendations, and think there is a tendency now days to just throw “more” protein into the mix and hope for the best. Not a bad approach, don’t get me wrong, but it’s also not for everyone. Protein seems to be the most expensive part of my grocery list so I am inclined to balance it with good carbs/veggies in meals much like you are advocating in other posts.
You seem to have a good handle on this so your thoughts are appreciated.
This is what everyone should be using, Fat doesn’t care about protien. Lean tissue does. Using this formula you should be at 1g/lb of LBM minimum. I use 1.25g/lb/lbm personally as my baseline. If dieting I will go higher.
A 300lb guy at 40%bf does not need 300g of protien as the “standard” theory would suggest. His LBM is 180lbs so I would give him 180-225g
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I will differ with the two extremes. I would use 1 gram per pound at 15% body fat weight. On a trained person, 15% body fat shows major muscle group separation.
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2 approaches, neither are incorrect.
I have a client whose about 350lbs trying to lose weight. He’s very fat.
He *cannot absorb 350g protein daily. It will not be fully synthesized.
But if he’s eating 350g protein daily, he’s not very hungry to eat much else, is he…?
The discussion should be mostly centered around LBM, but more will rarely hurt. Unless you’re in OPs position where she is struggling to eat all her food in a surplus.
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