Bump
All I can say is that you thought up a fantastic reply. I hate those kinds of situations because I have a hard time restraining myself.
Thanks dude, there will always be guys like that. atleast we figured out how to become successful in the iron game.
[quote]Frenchie7 wrote:
Damn this is some great stuff Quasi!
i want to thank you again for dropping all this knowledge on me man
i think i’ll adopt your saturday morning weigh in lol
i agree! i’ve been tracking reps,sets,and rest so every week i’m beating something whether it’s more reps,more weight or less rest
AWESOME, i’m loving this community,something i don’t get from my gym which is full of “personal trainers” and kids lined up to pump up their guns. the other day i came in at 6am to do some high bar olympic squats and i see all the power racks are filled with “trainers” using them as a place to have their clients do some quarter squats (looked like a group training session) so i thought “they payed for the same membership i did, i’m entitled to anything” so i spent 30 mins doing mobility and a dynamic warmup,foam rlling and finally one opened up and i start squatting atg great form, everything feels great no buttwink and i get up to 185 and bust out a set of 20 reps(which was hell) i notice a scrawny personal trainer is watching me squat and after i rack it he walks up to me and with an attitude says “i know you’re young and not so experienced but you shouldn’t squat bellow parellel it’s dangerous” i respectfully reply “i’m doing fine, if i wanted your opinion i would have hired you”[/quote]
Oh god if I saw PTs teaching their clients to do quarter squats, I would probably lose it. Like “The Shining” lose it. I’m very thankful my gym doesn’t seem to have personal training.
Sorry Frenchie, I missed your thank you post until Apoklyps quoted it. You are most welcome, I (and many others) am always happy to help as best I can. Give it some time and soon you’ll be giving advice to folks also - maybe even people at your gym that hired trainers.
At any commercial gym I’ve always noticed one of two things as you become bigger. People either assume you’re on roids because you’re growing/improving and they aren’t, or they start asking you for advice. Hopefully you’ll get the latter.
Stay focused, stay humble, and you’ll go far (just look at Bauber). Good luck!
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
[quote]Frenchie7 wrote:
Damn this is some great stuff Quasi!
i want to thank you again for dropping all this knowledge on me man
i think i’ll adopt your saturday morning weigh in lol
i agree! i’ve been tracking reps,sets,and rest so every week i’m beating something whether it’s more reps,more weight or less rest
AWESOME, i’m loving this community,something i don’t get from my gym which is full of “personal trainers” and kids lined up to pump up their guns. the other day i came in at 6am to do some high bar olympic squats and i see all the power racks are filled with “trainers” using them as a place to have their clients do some quarter squats (looked like a group training session) so i thought “they payed for the same membership i did, i’m entitled to anything” so i spent 30 mins doing mobility and a dynamic warmup,foam rlling and finally one opened up and i start squatting atg great form, everything feels great no buttwink and i get up to 185 and bust out a set of 20 reps(which was hell) i notice a scrawny personal trainer is watching me squat and after i rack it he walks up to me and with an attitude says “i know you’re young and not so experienced but you shouldn’t squat bellow parellel it’s dangerous” i respectfully reply “i’m doing fine, if i wanted your opinion i would have hired you”[/quote]
Oh god if I saw PTs teaching their clients to do quarter squats, I would probably lose it. Like “The Shining” lose it. I’m very thankful my gym doesn’t seem to have personal training.[/quote]
hahaha “heres johnny”, your gym is the place to be, mine is crawling with 135lb dudes who seem to know everything but look worst than most sedentary people,it’s like Defranco said you have to be a “G.a.m.e.r”
[quote]Bauber wrote:
Semi-big guy reporting. You need to eat more or you are not eating as much as you say or your metabolism is really high in which case, eat more. At 160 lbs at 5’11 you are quite thin.
I would also cut down some of your volume.[/quote]
I think at 319 lb you qualify as “completely big” dude. Sorry.
I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with him cutting down the volume of lifting too much, in my history I really benefitted from the volume as a formerly skinny guy (160 lb and 6’1"…yeah). You don’t want to go too high, but he’s only in the weight room 3 days a week…he’s gotta get volume in if he’s only there 3 times. I’ll re-read though I may have missed some skimming lol.
I would say you need to up your calories man–as a formerly skinny punk you are going to have to force calories down. When I got stuck with bodyweight it would sometimes take me cramming 5500-6000 calories down for weeks at a time to break through. As a skinny guy eating the calories you need will be the hardest part. Not to say you need to jump up to 5000+ here. Just saying you have to be focused on no particular “calorie count” if you want to make progress–eat what moves the scale.
I would start with 3500 calories daily right now unless you are currently moving up in bodyweight on your 3000 cal diet. If you are moving, don’t change. If not, up the calories. If it doesn’t move in 3 week, up to 4000, but don’t jump the gun right away.
Also I will say I fucking love your attitude. I came here with the same mindset years and years ago. I also got the same kind of comments starting out training my first couple years by my old friends and especially HS girlfriend lol. They all thought I was crazy and they told me not to get “too big”. Funnily enough I continued hearing “you’re crazy–you look great now, but don’t get any bigger you’ll get too big” for the next 60+ lbs I put on :). Hah!
“obsession” is what the weak minded call “dedication”. If you want to be elite, you have to be dedicated to the long haul, over the long term, and through all the dead spaces where it feels like you’re just spinning your wheels and not getting anywhere for months. If you do that, you end up strong and big.
These words of encouragement mean alot Quasi, hopefully we can stay in touch on here, and i can pick your brain on different aspects of training.
I agree, i’m looking to learn as much as i can so one day i can help others with their goals.
I can say this from experience. It’s not the program that creates the physique, it’s the work put into that certain program. High reps, low reps, heavy, light, drop sets, rest-pause, supersets, etc. They all have their place. They all work. They are all good. But if the mind isn’t focused and the heart isn’t in it, it doesn’t matter. The perfect program is the one that YOU enjoy and bust your ass at. Stress and resistance will spur growth and strength. Yes, some programs are more “specific” towards certain goals, but you CANNOT teach work ethic. Congrats on your success and best of luck in the future.
OP, as I said above I don’t think your volume of EXERCISES chosen or SETS is crazy at all. HOWEVER, you spend too much time over 15 REPS in a set. That is not really beneficial in my mind. I would say for the immediate short term take your ME Upper day and do all repped sets under 12 for your assistance exercises. Keep in the 6-10 zone most of the time. If you want you could keep one really good high rep set right after your ME movement, but only 1 set and then start increasing the weight to keep it in the 8-10 zone.
On your Repetition Upper body day, then you can do the 10-15+ rep sets. ME day is supposed to be heavy weight, Max EFFORT. Rep day is rep day. Separate the two methods out into their own days like they are labeled, instead of mixing them together. I would say the same for ME lower.
Personally I would hit the gym Sat/Sun for a second lower body day as well, however that may or may not work with your schedule and/or sports competitions if you play sports.
[quote]jbalplayr02 wrote:
I can say this from experience. It’s not the program that creates the physique, it’s the work put into that certain program. High reps, low reps, heavy, light, drop sets, rest-pause, supersets, etc. They all have their place. They all work. They are all good. But if the mind isn’t focused and the heart isn’t in it, it doesn’t matter. The perfect program is the one that YOU enjoy and bust your ass at. Stress and resistance will spur growth and strength. Yes, some programs are more “specific” towards certain goals, but you CANNOT teach work ethic. Congrats on your success and best of luck in the future.[/quote]
Great Post jbal, i agree with you completely,i’m definitely a g.a.m.e.r
[quote]kgildner wrote:
All I can say is that you thought up a fantastic reply. I hate those kinds of situations because I have a hard time restraining myself.[/quote]
I agree–as a coach myself it drives me FUCKING NUTS. Especially when I am working out on my own on a trip or something and some dumbass says the same thing to me. I have a very long fuse in real life (because I blow off lots of steam online ranting lol), but that is one of my very very biggest pet peeves and on rare occasions I’ve let them have both barrels. It’s enough to make sure that I never get bothered again haha.
But it’s better to be civil, even as you are no-nonsense. It’s my achilles heel though.
OP, I will say from my stance a Westside template, or a modified Westside for Skinny Bastards template like it seems you are using, is in my opinion one of the greatest ways to get big and strong. I have very very good memories of those splits and I used them exclusively for years (mostly the actual Westside Template, but yeah). They are favorites of mine because I like to haul heavy iron and I feel like everything has a very defined purpose in them (it does–or should anyway).
There was something else I wanted to say but I can’t remember…
OH yes! Educate the shit out of yourself. 95% of the people around in the fitness gyms and everywhere else know fuck-all about their bodies or about how a body works from a mechanical or biological standpoint. They also read Mens Health for their workouts.
There are 2 primary components to long term jackedness. 1) you have to fucking work consistently, even when you’re spinning your wheels and going nowhere, because it’s only the bullheaded stubborn work ethic that eventually breaks a plateau–not the guy who knows the name of every muscle and tendon in the body, and all the journal articles or coaches names but never actually busts ass in the gym til he bleeds. and 2) you have to read CONSTANTLY and THINK critically–it is an acquired skill that comes from training it, just like muscles and strength. If you don’t train your mind, you don’t educate yourself. Any moron can repeat something he has memorized–that is the lowest form of “learning” because it means nothing. YOU need to understand how to judge what works and what doesn’t, and why. YOU need to be able to recognize patterns of similarity between great coaches with very seemingly different approaches, and also learn why things work.
You don’t need to be a scientist. But you need to think like an engineer for your body–Does this make sense? Does it work but not make sense? How does this work? Why does this work? Ok, that didn’t work…why didn’t it work?
You can’t be successful in anything whether business or anything else without being able to think for yourself and support your reasons. If you can’t you will always be taken advantage of. Likewise if you close your mind off from advice because you’ve read a ton or made progress and think you know it all, you become obsolete right then and there. So you basically have to consider yourself a student, and learn how to learn. Hell, you can’t even play sports at a pro level mindlessly–Peyton Manning, Joe Montana, Marino, Jordan, all the greats studied and thought about their game all the time, not just relying on talent even though they had a ton.
Two quotes that really hit home for me and defined a lot of my education:
-
“Ever since childhood, Iâ??ve lived by a simple code: if you want to be successful, do the opposite of what everyone else [who fails or stagnates] does” Coach Charles Staley.
-
Can’t find the direct quote, so I’ll have to paraphrase. “You have to read. Read 1 hour every day [on a SINGLE TOPIC] for a year and you will probably be a fairly knowledgeable layman. Read 1 hour every day for 3 years and you will be one of the most knowledgeable people in your immediate vicinity or city. Read an hour every day for 5 years and you will be one of the most knowledgeable people in the region. Read an hour every single day for 10 years and you will be one of the most knowledgeable people in the country.” Charles Poliquin, I believe.
The rule of 10,000 hours. That’s what you have to put in.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
OP, as I said above I don’t think your volume of EXERCISES chosen or SETS is crazy at all. HOWEVER, you spend too much time over 15 REPS in a set. That is not really beneficial in my mind. I would say for the immediate short term take your ME Upper day and do all repped sets under 12 for your assistance exercises. Keep in the 6-10 zone most of the time. If you want you could keep one really good high rep set right after your ME movement, but only 1 set and then start increasing the weight to keep it in the 8-10 zone.
On your Repetition Upper body day, then you can do the 10-15+ rep sets. ME day is supposed to be heavy weight, Max EFFORT. Rep day is rep day. Separate the two methods out into their own days like they are labeled, instead of mixing them together. I would say the same for ME lower.
Personally I would hit the gym Sat/Sun for a second lower body day as well, however that may or may not work with your schedule and/or sports competitions if you play sports.[/quote]
ahh interesting,i see what you mean. what do you think of a westside template being used by someone who is interested in physique development as well as strength development?
i was thinking of starting westside for viking bastards.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]kgildner wrote:
All I can say is that you thought up a fantastic reply. I hate those kinds of situations because I have a hard time restraining myself.[/quote]
I agree–as a coach myself it drives me FUCKING NUTS. Especially when I am working out on my own on a trip or something and some dumbass says the same thing to me. I have a very long fuse in real life (because I blow off lots of steam online ranting lol), but that is one of my very very biggest pet peeves and on rare occasions I’ve let them have both barrels. It’s enough to make sure that I never get bothered again haha.
But it’s better to be civil, even as you are no-nonsense. It’s my achilles heel though.
OP, I will say from my stance a Westside template, or a modified Westside for Skinny Bastards template like it seems you are using, is in my opinion one of the greatest ways to get big and strong. I have very very good memories of those splits and I used them exclusively for years (mostly the actual Westside Template, but yeah). They are favorites of mine because I like to haul heavy iron and I feel like everything has a very defined purpose in them (it does–or should anyway).
There was something else I wanted to say but I can’t remember…
OH yes! Educate the shit out of yourself. 95% of the people around in the fitness gyms and everywhere else know fuck-all about their bodies or about how a body works from a mechanical or biological standpoint. They also read Mens Health for their workouts.
There are 2 primary components to long term jackedness. 1) you have to fucking work consistently, even when you’re spinning your wheels and going nowhere, because it’s only the bullheaded stubborn work ethic that eventually breaks a plateau–not the guy who knows the name of every muscle and tendon in the body, and all the journal articles or coaches names but never actually busts ass in the gym til he bleeds. and 2) you have to read CONSTANTLY and THINK critically–it is an acquired skill that comes from training it, just like muscles and strength. If you don’t train your mind, you don’t educate yourself. Any moron can repeat something he has memorized–that is the lowest form of “learning” because it means nothing. YOU need to understand how to judge what works and what doesn’t, and why. YOU need to be able to recognize patterns of similarity between great coaches with very seemingly different approaches, and also learn why things work.
You don’t need to be a scientist. But you need to think like an engineer for your body–Does this make sense? Does it work but not make sense? How does this work? Why does this work? Ok, that didn’t work…why didn’t it work?
You can’t be successful in anything whether business or anything else without being able to think for yourself and support your reasons. If you can’t you will always be taken advantage of. Likewise if you close your mind off from advice because you’ve read a ton or made progress and think you know it all, you become obsolete right then and there. So you basically have to consider yourself a student, and learn how to learn. Hell, you can’t even play sports at a pro level mindlessly–Peyton Manning, Joe Montana, Marino, Jordan, all the greats studied and thought about their game all the time, not just relying on talent even though they had a ton.
Two quotes that really hit home for me and defined a lot of my education:
-
“Ever since childhood, Iâ??ve lived by a simple code: if you want to be successful, do the opposite of what everyone else [who fails or stagnates] does” Coach Charles Staley.
-
Can’t find the direct quote, so I’ll have to paraphrase. “You have to read. Read 1 hour every day [on a SINGLE TOPIC] for a year and you will probably be a fairly knowledgeable layman. Read 1 hour every day for 3 years and you will be one of the most knowledgeable people in your immediate vicinity or city. Read an hour every day for 5 years and you will be one of the most knowledgeable people in the region. Read an hour every single day for 10 years and you will be one of the most knowledgeable people in the country.” Charles Poliquin, I believe.
The rule of 10,000 hours. That’s what you have to put in. [/quote]
Woah, this is on of the best post’s i’ve read to date. i love that quote so much i’m writing it in my training log.i can’t thank you enough for taking time out of your day to post on this thread.it’s really humbling when the experienced are so willing to help the newbs like myself.
I avidly read philosophical works and i’m also in school working towards becoming a psychologist so my natural inclination/habit is to want to learn and extract ideas and concepts from text in order to improve my understanding of a field i’m interested in. in the iron game i try to extract what i can from reliable sources but at the end of the day know i have so much to learn before i can consider myself knowledgeable.
Also every couple of weeks really crank up the volume on RE day and try this…
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]Bauber wrote:
Semi-big guy reporting. You need to eat more or you are not eating as much as you say or your metabolism is really high in which case, eat more. At 160 lbs at 5’11 you are quite thin.
I would also cut down some of your volume.[/quote]
I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with him cutting down the volume of lifting too much, in my history I really benefitted from the volume as a formerly skinny guy (160 lb and 6’1"…yeah). You don’t want to go too high, but he’s only in the weight room 3 days a week…he’s gotta get volume in if he’s only there 3 times. I’ll re-read though I may have missed some skimming lol.
[/quote]
Ya know, I find this really interesting. I really bought into the “I’m skinny, fast metabolism, use low volume hard-gainer routines” and I didn’t make a lot of progress. It was only when I started pushing some volume is when I started getting stronger and actually growing. I think if someone is a ‘hard-gainer’ (whatever that means, but I guess I mean someone naturally skinny, needs a lot of food to push weight), that they should probably REALLY try to lift with a good deal of volume, to FORCE their body to grow, just as they do with high food intake.
Just doesn’t make sense to me, someone who has a hard time putting on muscle, why low volume would be suggested.
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]Bauber wrote:
Semi-big guy reporting. You need to eat more or you are not eating as much as you say or your metabolism is really high in which case, eat more. At 160 lbs at 5’11 you are quite thin.
I would also cut down some of your volume.[/quote]
I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with him cutting down the volume of lifting too much, in my history I really benefitted from the volume as a formerly skinny guy (160 lb and 6’1"…yeah). You don’t want to go too high, but he’s only in the weight room 3 days a week…he’s gotta get volume in if he’s only there 3 times. I’ll re-read though I may have missed some skimming lol.
[/quote]
Ya know, I find this really interesting. I really bought into the “I’m skinny, fast metabolism, use low volume hard-gainer routines” and I didn’t make a lot of progress. It was only when I started pushing some volume is when I started getting stronger and actually growing. I think if someone is a ‘hard-gainer’ (whatever that means, but I guess I mean someone naturally skinny, needs a lot of food to push weight), that they should probably REALLY try to lift with a good deal of volume, to FORCE their body to grow, just as they do with high food intake.
Just doesn’t make sense to me, someone who has a hard time putting on muscle, why low volume would be suggested. [/quote]
Maybe I just shouldn’t comment lol. Just from personal experience low volume and high volume makes me grow so…
[quote]Bauber wrote:
[quote]Spidey22 wrote:
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]Bauber wrote:
Semi-big guy reporting. You need to eat more or you are not eating as much as you say or your metabolism is really high in which case, eat more. At 160 lbs at 5’11 you are quite thin.
I would also cut down some of your volume.[/quote]
I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with him cutting down the volume of lifting too much, in my history I really benefitted from the volume as a formerly skinny guy (160 lb and 6’1"…yeah). You don’t want to go too high, but he’s only in the weight room 3 days a week…he’s gotta get volume in if he’s only there 3 times. I’ll re-read though I may have missed some skimming lol.
[/quote]
Ya know, I find this really interesting. I really bought into the “I’m skinny, fast metabolism, use low volume hard-gainer routines” and I didn’t make a lot of progress. It was only when I started pushing some volume is when I started getting stronger and actually growing. I think if someone is a ‘hard-gainer’ (whatever that means, but I guess I mean someone naturally skinny, needs a lot of food to push weight), that they should probably REALLY try to lift with a good deal of volume, to FORCE their body to grow, just as they do with high food intake.
Just doesn’t make sense to me, someone who has a hard time putting on muscle, why low volume would be suggested. [/quote]
Maybe I just shouldn’t comment lol. Just from personal experience low volume and high volume makes me grow so…
[/quote]
No man, please comment! It’s people talking about this stuff, and even disagreeing (in a civil way) that usually has the best discussions. lol
Question: i recently had a conversation with a gym buddy who is doing crossfit,i told him that i’m going to start training with more bodybuilding parameters this year to add some quality muscle. he then went on to talk about how body building type training is “non functional” and will not add to strength development or athleticism, i personally think this is bullshit. what do you guys have to say about this?
[quote]Frenchie7 wrote:
Question: i recently had a conversation with a gym buddy who is doing crossfit,i told him that i’m going to start training with more bodybuilding parameters this year to add some quality muscle. he then went on to talk about how body building type training is “non functional” and will not add to strength development or athleticism, i personally think this is bullshit. what do you guys have to say about this? [/quote]
I think functional is a stupid word, at least used in the context of lifting.
If your goal is building muscle, bodybuilding style workouts are ‘functional’.
If a sport if your goal, workouts based around improving specific skills for that sport is functional.
If you goal is Oly lifting, workouts that allow you to get strongest in the competitive lifts are functional.
If your goal is to be able to do pistol squats on Bosu ball, workouts that help achieve that are functional.