London Bombing

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
161

[quote]jlesk68 wrote:
So I have to sit by while i’m being called troll and stuff. I don’t know where you get that I said I was superior, and since when not supporting “The War On Terror” makes me a target. By the way, I haven’t lived at home for the past 19 years. I don’t slander this beautiful nation that I love, I’m speaking about the real morons that have almost made it the police state that it is. You republicans just can’t handle anyone talking about your Leader. And I wrap myself on the 1st amendment since anyone who doesn’t agree with you is demonized…[/quote]

Police State? Name one thing you can’t do now that you could do pre-9/11 that is a result of this Police State you refer to. I don’t know about NJ, but I can still do all the shit I could before 9/11 - and I pay less taxes. This is indeed a horribly opressive regime. Wake the hell up.

You are an ABB liberal that has transposed your hatred of GDub onto this war. That is very sad.

As for your Freedom of Speech whine fest. You don’t have to listen to anything anyone else says, either. This thread is supposed to be about the 50+ dead in the Subways of London, that were murdered at the hands of Islamic Jihadist cowards. You have done your best to join forces with our resident nut job, JTF, in making this about the Bush Administration.

That is why you are called a troll. That is why you statements inflame those of us who are supporters of the War on Terror. We have as much claim to the First Amendment as you do - so stop with the “poor me” bullshit whining and realize that people will respond to what you say very strongly on an issue such as this.

If you are patient, and work really, really hard at raising money for the MoveOn folks - maybe you will have another liberal in the whitehouse one day. And then you will be for the War on Terror, and everything will be rosey once again. Or not.

162

[quote]Professor X wrote:
FCFighter wrote:
This is going to be a long war. Terrorism will not end overnight and it will not end with compassion and understanding.

Correction, it simply will not end, especially if there is no understanding of what creates a terrorists. I am not sure why any of you believe that a war on a concept would ever have the result of being “won”. As long as there are people with strong opinions that affect what they believe in, there will always be those willing to hurt others to achieve a goal. The real question is, how far do you extend yourself in the effort to battle a concept? Until all resources are gone? A nuke dropped on the Middle East today would not end terrorism.[/quote]

Define victory in this situation.

There have been no more terrorist attacks on our soil since the War on Terror began. Maybe I am using a different definition than you are, but I say we are winning. we are killing a shitload more of them averyday than they are of us. Another point for us.

Fuck ‘understanding’ them and what ‘causes’ terrorists. They are murderers of innocent men women and children. I could give a shit why so long as they are exterminated like the vermen they are.

163

[quote]rainjack wrote:
jlesk68 wrote:
So I have to sit by while i’m being called troll and stuff. I don’t know where you get that I said I was superior, and since when not supporting “The War On Terror” makes me a target. By the way, I haven’t lived at home for the past 19 years. I don’t slander this beautiful nation that I love, I’m speaking about the real morons that have almost made it the police state that it is. You republicans just can’t handle anyone talking about your Leader. And I wrap myself on the 1st amendment since anyone who doesn’t agree with you is demonized…

Police State? Name one thing you can’t do now that you could do pre-9/11 that is a result of this Police State you refer to. I don’t know about NJ, but I can still do all the shit I could before 9/11 - and I pay less taxes. This is indeed a horribly opressive regime. Wake the hell up.

You are an ABB liberal that has transposed your hatred of GDub onto this war. That is very sad.

As for your Freedom of Speech whine fest. You don’t have to listen to anything anyone else says, either. This thread is supposed to be about the 50+ dead in the Subways of London, that were murdered at the hands of Islamic Jihadist cowards. You have done your best to join forces with our resident nut job, JTF, in making this about the Bush Administration.

That is why you are called a troll. That is why you statements inflame those of us who are supporters of the War on Terror. We have as much claim to the First Amendment as you do - so stop with the “poor me” bullshit whining and realize that people will respond to what you say very strongly on an issue such as this.

If you are patient, and work really, really hard at raising money for the MoveOn folks - maybe you will have another liberal in the whitehouse one day. And then you will be for the War on Terror, and everything will be rosey once again. Or not.[/quote]

Whatever…

164

[quote]rainjack wrote:
jlesk68 wrote:
So I have to sit by while i’m being called troll and stuff. I don’t know where you get that I said I was superior, and since when not supporting “The War On Terror” makes me a target. By the way, I haven’t lived at home for the past 19 years. I don’t slander this beautiful nation that I love, I’m speaking about the real morons that have almost made it the police state that it is. You republicans just can’t handle anyone talking about your Leader. And I wrap myself on the 1st amendment since anyone who doesn’t agree with you is demonized…

Police State? Name one thing you can’t do now that you could do pre-9/11 that is a result of this Police State you refer to. I don’t know about NJ, but I can still do all the shit I could before 9/11 - and I pay less taxes. This is indeed a horribly opressive regime. Wake the hell up.

You are an ABB liberal that has transposed your hatred of GDub onto this war. That is very sad.

As for your Freedom of Speech whine fest. You don’t have to listen to anything anyone else says, either. This thread is supposed to be about the 50+ dead in the Subways of London, that were murdered at the hands of Islamic Jihadist cowards. You have done your best to join forces with our resident nut job, JTF, in making this about the Bush Administration.

That is why you are called a troll. That is why you statements inflame those of us who are supporters of the War on Terror. We have as much claim to the First Amendment as you do - so stop with the “poor me” bullshit whining and realize that people will respond to what you say very strongly on an issue such as this.

If you are patient, and work really, really hard at raising money for the MoveOn folks - maybe you will have another liberal in the whitehouse one day. And then you will be for the War on Terror, and everything will be rosey once again. Or not.[/quote]

Bravo, bravo, bravo, rainjack! If we could get you to run in 08, I think I’m casting my ballot your way. You seem like a man of reason who would use rationale and good judgement to guide our country to peace and prosperity plus you make me feel warm and fuzzy inside as well as safe and protected.

I love how you said we are going to exterminate them like the vermin they are. I think, I will watch Full Metal Jacket tonight put on some army pants and patrol my street looking for any suspicious arab muslim types and woe is them if I find them.

I will proceed to bash them sensless all the while saying “this is for rainjack you verminous scum”!

165

[quote]nabz wrote:
Its a shame to see this topic regressed so backwardly, Im a Londoner but none of this debate (which I stupidly got caught in) helps my fellow Londoners, shame on all of you who on this board who show hate and contempt for others,what makes you any different from those that because of hate and contempt bombed my city?[/quote]

Lol, the difference is the people on this board don’t go setting off bombs in random large cities for the sole purpose of killing civilians.

166

[quote]jlesk68 wrote:
Whatever…[/quote]

You are whining about how badly you are being treated, yet when given a chance to respond, the best you have is “whatever”?

Wow.

167

[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
Bravo, bravo, bravo, rainjack! If we could get you to run in 08, I think I’m casting my ballot your way. You seem like a man of reason who would use rationale and good judgement to guide our country to peace and prosperity plus you make me feel warm and fuzzy inside as well as safe and protected.

I love how you said we are going to exterminate them like the vermin they are. I think, I will watch Full Metal Jacket tonight put on some army pants and patrol my street looking for any suspicious arab muslim types and woe is them if I find them.

I will proceed to bash them sensless all the while saying “this is for rainjack you verminous scum”![/quote]

You take part of what I said and spin it into something totally different just so you can go on a rant. Classic Elk.

I said the terrorists were vermen. Anyone who tries to further their cause by purposely targeting innocent civilians should be exterminated.

I’m sorry that you have taken what I said and tried to make me an islamophobe - but I guess you’d have to do some ‘creative’ writing to justify your rant.

168

[quote]Professor X wrote:
FCFighter wrote:
This is going to be a long war. Terrorism will not end overnight and it will not end with compassion and understanding.

Correction, it simply will not end, especially if there is no understanding of what creates a terrorists. I am not sure why any of you believe that a war on a concept would ever have the result of being “won”. As long as there are people with strong opinions that affect what they believe in, there will always be those willing to hurt others to achieve a goal. The real question is, how far do you extend yourself in the effort to battle a concept? Until all resources are gone? A nuke dropped on the Middle East today would not end terrorism.[/quote]

Prof X is right. In spite of its catchy title this is not a war on terrorism.

It is war against Islamic extremists that use terrorism as a tool to further their sick goals.

Education, free markets, freedom of religion and expression and freedom from tyranical leaders will marginalize and eventually eliminate this fringe elemnt of Islam that has declared war on us.

The shooting war is only part of the battle. The terrorist would love us to destroy an Islamic city. It would be a great recruiting tool.

Their biggest fear is a truly free and prosperous Middle Eastern country. That would show the rest of the Middle East how wrong the extremists are.

169

Ah, rain, I just get tired of hearing your “who de fuk are you” “You still living with mom and dad pussy” “Fuck em all let Allah sort em out” rhetoric. That gets ollllllld!

rainman, how many years passed between the first terrorist bombing in New York and 9/11? Do you realize that these guys work on a very slow timeline or are you on a slow timeline?

You said they are killers of women and children. Do you realize many more women and children have been slaughtered in Iraq by U.S. munitions THEN from all of the terrorist acts combined.

When they blow up a building they are cowardly terrorists metioned in every GW speech. When we blow up a city with hundreds of non combatant casaluties including children it’s not reported.

Rain, how can you justify the killing of any children? And, I’m tired of hearing the “Zap Brannigan” rationale of “It’s a shitty deal for them, but necessary crap”. Easy to say when your childrens or own life isn’t under fire!

170

[quote]jlesk68 wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
jlesk68 wrote:
…

By the way, I haven’t lived at home for the past 19 years.

Are you homeless?

I won’t continue with the stupid high school crap, you go ahead…[/quote]

You have posted nothing but high school crap. I have posted my opinions.

Pray tell, what is your opinion? As far as I can tell you are just looking for others to tell you what your opinion is. As long as it is not “mainstream” it must be cool in your mind. You have not generated a single shred of your own original thought.

171

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Professor X wrote:

Education, free markets, freedom of religion and expression and freedom from tyranical leaders will marginalize and eventually eliminate this fringe elemnt of Islam that has declared war on us.

[/quote]

YES! You’ve hit the nail directly on the head with this one, Zap!

But how do we do that? More bombings? More invasions? So far, there is very little being done with regards to actually aiding democracy in the Middle East. Yeah, yeah…they had an election in Iraq…so why are we still there and why is there an anti-Saddam, anti-American insurgency?

Why aren’t we talking with the pro-democracy Palestinian groups? Or the pro-democracy Pakistani groups? They DO exist. However, at least in Palestine, the US and Israel have only agreed to work with the most corrupt and anti-democratic groups (Fatah, Hamas, etc.). Most Palestinians in the occupied territories will tell you that the Israelis keep the pro-democracy folks in jail and put Hamas militants back on the street within hours! Democracy and freedom ARE THE ONLY ANSWERS to this problem, but we still aren’t taking proactive steps to encourage it. As some posters have pointed out, there are movements for democracy and secular government in most Middle Eastern countries, yet we still aren’t helping them.

172

[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
Ah, rain, I just get tired of hearing your “who de fuk are you” “You still living with mom and dad pussy” “Fuck em all let Allah sort em out” rhetoric. That gets ollllllld!

rainman, how many years passed between the first terrorist bombing in New York and 9/11? Do you realize that these guys work on a very slow timeline or are you on a slow timeline?

You said they are killers of women and children. Do you realize many more women and children have been slaughtered in Iraq by U.S. munitions THEN from all of the terrorist acts combined.

When they blow up a building they are cowardly terrorists metioned in every GW speech. When we blow up a city with hundreds of non combatant casaluties including children it’s not reported.

Rain, how can you justify the killing of any children? And, I’m tired of hearing the “Zap Brannigan” rationale of “It’s a shitty deal for them, but necessary crap”. Easy to say when your childrens or own life isn’t under fire!
[/quote]

Dude, my best friend in the whole world walked out of the WTC about 15 minutes before it got hit by the plane.
It wasn’t me or my kids, but it still hits close to home.

They way I see it is we can fight or we can surrender. Do you think if we pulled out of Afghanistan and Iraq we would have peace? We were not in these countries when they tried to blow up the WTC the first time, when they blew a hole in the USS Cole, when they blew up a couple of our embassies in Africa or on 9/11.

Is this acceptable behavior? Should we just let it go?

We are fighting the best we can and trying to keep the civilian casualties down. The fucking terrorists are intentionally killing innocent Muslims all over the world.

We are at war. We are clearly on the right side. The people we are fighting against truly are bad guys. Don’t kid yourself into thinking that if we didn’t fight everything would be OK.

It is cool you didn’t vote for Bush. I have no problems with that. It is cool if you thought the invasion of Iraq was not the best strategy in this war. It is cool if you are angry that our intelligence services are so fucked up they got the whole WMD thing wrong.

What is not cool is to justify the terrorist actions because our military sometimes hits the wrong target by mistake.

It is a shitty deal for the people in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Lebanon etc.
It has been for a long time. We are trying to do something about it by evicting the tyrants, restoring clean water, electricity and education.

173

[quote]frogie2001 wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
I do not condemn Islam because I do not know enough about it. I do know hate is being spead in the name of Islam and it is wrong.

America needs to put more pressure on dictatorships that push Muslim extremism as a way to control their people (Saudi Arabia).

When we support these dictators we support Muslim extremism.

one of the ideals of a true democracy is to allow freedom of speech and beliefs. what does it say when one country imposes its beliefs onto another?
[/quote]

So, you think it is OK to support Wahabism in a country that claims to have 15%+ unemployment (which is closer to 30%+).

It is the classic Alpha and Omega dicatomy. Give the masses something to hate other than those in power and keep stealing from the masses.

Tell me how this is not going on in Saudi Arabia.

We should have invaded Saudi Arabia after Afganistan. Not Iraq.

All we had to do was dust of Nixon’s plans and put an end to oil revenue funded ignorance and hate.

What do you know about Saudi Arabia and the House of Saud’s funding of Wahabism?

Do you know of the House of Saud’s agreement with the Wahabist leaders in their country?

Ignorance kills…

174

[quote]battlelust wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Professor X wrote:

Education, free markets, freedom of religion and expression and freedom from tyranical leaders will marginalize and eventually eliminate this fringe elemnt of Islam that has declared war on us.

YES! You’ve hit the nail directly on the head with this one, Zap!

But how do we do that? More bombings? More invasions? So far, there is very little being done with regards to actually aiding democracy in the Middle East. Yeah, yeah…they had an election in Iraq…so why are we still there and why is there an anti-Saddam, anti-American insurgency?

Why aren’t we talking with the pro-democracy Palestinian groups? Or the pro-democracy Pakistani groups? They DO exist. However, at least in Palestine, the US and Israel have only agreed to work with the most corrupt and anti-democratic groups (Fatah, Hamas, etc.). Most Palestinians in the occupied territories will tell you that the Israelis keep the pro-democracy folks in jail and put Hamas militants back on the street within hours! Democracy and freedom ARE THE ONLY ANSWERS to this problem, but we still aren’t taking proactive steps to encourage it. As some posters have pointed out, there are movements for democracy and secular government in most Middle Eastern countries, yet we still aren’t helping them.

[/quote]

Our efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan are trying to do the very things that need to be done. Unfortunately it gets difficult to fix the electrical grid when a bunch of assholes keep blowing it up.

I do not know if we are truly doing a good job in these area. I know we have good people doing their best. I also know that our government could fuck up a wet dream so we will always be able to find fault with the effort they are making.

175

[quote]Elkhntr1 wrote:
Ah, rain, I just get tired of hearing your “who de fuk are you” “You still living with mom and dad pussy” “Fuck em all let Allah sort em out” rhetoric. That gets ollllllld! [/quote]

That’s fine if you have a problem with what I said. We are here to debate and counter. But when you make shit up - “Fuck em all let Allah sort em out” - then I have to wonder why you even post and use my name. I didn’t say that. But eveidently that’s not going to matter too much to you.

[quote]
rainman, how many years passed between the first terrorist bombing in New York and 9/11? Do you realize that these guys work on a very slow timeline or are you on a slow timeline?[/quote]

I don’t know the exact timeline, but we had The USS Cole attack, the U.S. Embassy attacked, and other terrorist attacks inside of an 8 year window. We are closing in on 4 years, now and no attacks on U.S. soil. What is your point?

[quote]
You said they are killers of women and children. Do you realize many more women and children have been slaughtered in Iraq by U.S. munitions THEN from all of the terrorist acts combined. [/quote]

Are you equating our involvement in Iraq with terrorism? It sounds like it to me. The difference is - and please try to pay attention here - the terrorists TARGET the innocent SPECIFICALLY. They hide amoung thew women and children. They hide in the Mosques. Then they blow them up if they don’t cooperate. Thw Coalition makes every effort to minimize the civilian casualties. Remember Fallujah? Remember our soldiers being killed by going door to door and trying to get the terrorist element out of Fallujah? Why did they go door to door when the safe play qould have been to turn Fallujah into a prking lot? Give up? To minimize civilian casualties.

[quote]
When they blow up a building they are cowardly terrorists metioned in every GW speech. When we blow up a city with hundreds of non combatant casaluties including children it’s not reported. [/quote]

Name a city that we have “blown up”. If you can’t find a report of a “blown up” city in the liberal anti-war rags that pass as journalism, you have a very weak position.

If my children were “under fire” I would do what many fathers have done: take them to a safer place. That’s easy enough to do when the evil U.S. led band of murdering thugs take special precautions at the risk of their own life to try and ensure the safety of innocents. That’s something that the imported terrorists would never do.

You are just proving my point that the ABB crowd has transposed their hatred of Bush to the War on Terror. Defending the terrorists by painting us to look as evil as they are is truly a deplorable position to take.

176

[quote]jlesk68 wrote:
.[/quote]

Cute cartoon but are you just parroting liberal talking points or can you prove your assertion?

177

[quote]samsmarts wrote:
There have been many publications(one posted in this very thread) that have stated that the gross number of terrorisms in Latin America alone is larger than those by muslims. And then there are the ex-USSR regions, ireland etc. Point being your assumption is flawed. Almost every terrorist isnt a muslim.[/quote]

The USSR terrorists are connected with radical muslims.

178

JustTheFacts,

You are wackier than JeffR.

Give it a rest!

179

I havent been around for a while…so hi again.

1 day on and astonishingly things are moving on already. Over 50 now reported dead. Irrespective of the group resonsible, the important thing is the response from those affected, to return to normality as soon as possible.

Increadible to think that someone said that it was meant to cause traffic disruption (it did) and not kill…if disruption was the aim then destroying switchgear or signalling equipment would have been more efficacious.
The IRA in all of their time did not kill so many in 1 attempt. The aim was to kill and maim at soft targets. Tubes and buses are proven easy targets.

I gues it could have been much much worse

It is likely to have been an islamist group, combined to time with the g8(olymics a coincidence). but this remains to be proven.

Such a strange time, 1 day so so high, the next so so low. I guess all there is to do is get back to normality and carry on.

180

Rain, you are the one choosing to believe filtered propagandized news. Doesn’t have anything to do with liberal or conservative in a war zone people die everyone one. U.S. soldiers, insurgents, non combatants, women, children, babies.

But, you are one of the Sean Hannity believing brigade that “we knock on doors and no innocents are hurt by all means” You talk about the liberal media spreading untruths.

I do agree our soldiers go to lengths to not all out kill everything in sight but in the end in the situation there put in it’s self preservation and they will do what they have to do to go back home.

If that means lobbing a grenade into a home that may contain insurgents or it may contain women and children don’t believe faux news that grenade is going in!

Hell, if my Gov. forced me to go to a war that I didn’t agree with my only focus would be coming home alive and if that meant lobbing a grenade into that home It would be done!

Again it’s not downing the troops it’s realistically looking at the situation GWB has put them in. One that I am certain with every fiber of my being he would decline to be a part of if he had to make that choice.

Rain, if the roles were reversed and a foreign invader came to Texas and one child was sexually humiliated at a detention facility and another was killed mistakenly at a checkpoint do you think you would plant a roadside bomb or two.

Or if the person who tortured your child was suddenly in your hands do think you could cut their head off?

I am curious to know!