Right.
I can do that. Maybe I’ll get one tonight, just a couple reps. I’ll see what I can do.
Shirt off, for the sake of visibility.
Totally unnecessary, but I felt like it since my lack of chest thickness bothered me in that video.
Bench (slight incline, pin 4)
95, 135 x 5
155 x 5, 5, 11
160 next time. Whenever that is. I found a starting number, so there.
I’m probably going to switch to a true greyskull lp program after I get back from Vegas.
And deadlifts.
135, 185, 225 x 5
275 x 7
A starting point. I haven’t done deadlifts for reps since my few weeks trying stronglifts 2 years ago. Straps, touch-n-go.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Shirt off, for the sake of visibility.
[/quote]
uh huh
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Shirt off, for the sake of visibility.
[/quote]
uh huh
[/quote]
Meh. See the post above it…
Thanks for posting that.
In my opinion I think the BTN presses are a temporary fix, if even a fix at all.
As I imagined you seem to be drawing some compensations from other segments of your body to get in position to complete the BTN presses; a bit of forward head posture, not “tall” enough, core didn’t look tight enough/ anterior pelvic tilt. Though you are one of the few people I’ve seen that seems to have “decent” form on them.
I don’t want to tell you to change stuff up when its working for you.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
–
As for me, I’m stealing the squat and deadlift programming piece of it and tying it in with what I’ve been doing.
Day 1: squat 2x5, 1x5+; lat pulldowns 10 x 10; rear-delt flyes 4 x 20
Day 2: btn press 3x12 superset with ez-bar curls 3x10 (+ maybe pre-exhaust curls or extra sets for my smaller right arm)
Day 3: deadlift 1x5+
Day 4: lat pulldowns 10 x 10; rear-delt flyes 4 x 20
Day 5: squat 2x5, 1x5+; btn press 3x12 superset with ez-bar curls 3x10
Day 6: rest
Squat and deadlift go up 5lbs a session, as long as the + set is less than 10 reps. Increase by 10lbs otherwise. BTN press increases by 1 lb per session. Pulldowns and curls and flyes, increase when all sets are done at the same weight and relatively easy.[/quote]
I think a 3 day 5/3/1 variation with some focus on conditioning for fat loss would be nice, but
Since you already have what you want to do in mind. I would just suggest that you try to do you pressing with DBs/KBs as compared to a BB. And that you might replace the pulldowns with some kind of rowing variation, I think all the pressing and pulldowns would be a bit to much of internal rotation on the shoulder/ gleno-humeral joint. Also make sure that the elbow does not go past the torso on pulling and pressing movements. Initiate the pulls with scapula retraction.
Stay strong
[quote]young n wrote:
I think a 3 day 5/3/1 variation with some focus on conditioning for fat loss would be nice,[/quote]
Congrats at being the first person in my entire life to suggest a fat loss routine to me, lol.
Why 5/3/1?
My objections to 5/3/1 at this point are… I don’t believe I’ve truly milked the progress of out simple linear progression. I also don’t think 5/3/1 lends itself to monitoring progress very well in any unit smaller than a 4 week cycle. Mainly you don’t get a good workout-to-workout measure of comparison. With a linear progression system and the layer/nemesis systems, you can compare the last X workouts and measure your rate of progress.
Could you explain the reasoning?
Could you elaborate a bit more on rowing vs pulldowns? I’ve only been doing pulldowns for a few weeks at this point. It’s about the only lat-focused exercise I’ve found that doesn’t require me to move a bunch of equipment, so I’m not too keen on dropping it. Augmenting it with something (e.g., machine rows, cable rows) I’d be ok with.
I swear I’m not trying to be difficult.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]young n wrote:
I think a 3 day 5/3/1 variation with some focus on conditioning for fat loss would be nice,[/quote]
Congrats at being the first person in my entire life to suggest a fat loss routine to me, lol.[/quote]
Don’t know if serious.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
- Why 5/3/1?
My objections to 5/3/1 at this point are…
2. I don’t believe I’ve truly milked the progress of out simple linear progression.
3. I also don’t think 5/3/1 lends itself to monitoring progress very well in any unit smaller than a 4 week cycle.
4. Mainly you don’t get a good workout-to-workout measure of comparison. With a linear progression system and the layer/nemesis systems, you can compare the last X workouts and measure your rate of progress.[/quote]
- Because 5/3/1 is simple, I could write you something but . . . I think most men want to figure stuff out by themselves.
You can honestly run 5/3/1 for a long time. I mean its pretty simple, Coach Thibs, in the Indio project programs; has a overhead pattern (pressing), bench day, squat, and deadlift (pulling) day, In HP Mass there was some form of squating, pulling/deadlifting, and pressing, even the layer system has prressing, squating and pulling in it, Jim Wendler has an overhead, bench, squat, and deadlift day, Dan John uses the 5 human movements, push, pull, squat, hinge, carry (pressing, pulling, sqating, deadlifting movements.
Disclaimer I do not know these coaches and this is only my opinion, neither am I trying to group these coaches together, other than that they are some very accomplished coaches.
I got sidetracked but
You asked why 5/3/1? because I like the core principles behind it. start light, and get better each week.
-
I’m going to side track again here, a few pages back some members made comments stating that you are not as strong as you could have been, and that you were “pussyfooting” around and could have made more/better progress up to this point than you currently have.
(please do correct me here if I am way off)
I think a lot of people would agree that just putting the time and effort in is a form of linear progression, I think adding 5-10 lbs a month is a form of linear progression wouldn’t you say? -
I don’t think I understand that statement. But let me just say that you don’t have to change your core lifts every month/4 weeks.
Lets get on the same page about that? -
I guess you have yet to have a bad workout. And progress should be long term not workout to workout, I mean it can, but lets look at the big picture (long term) and not smaller segments of it (individual workouts), I think it was you who said you were in it for the long haul (6+ years).
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Could you explain the reasoning?[/quote]
Well you have pissed off shoulders the last thing you want to do is tell your shoulders what to do, force them to move a certain way, which is what happens with a barbell, the shoulders, humerus and what not can only move in a certain plane whereas with a dumbbell or kettlebell the shoulders have more “freedom” even if it is only a minor difference. The last thing you want to do to someone when they are pissed is give them orders/ tell them stuff. You would rather give them there space to calm down or figure stuff out (joint/structural integrity while the human body, (which by the way is very good at figuring out stuff) figures out how to move this weight (DB/KB) out of the way in a safe manner, err actually move it out of the way in a pain free way, which in turn usually is in a safe manner). Hope that makes sense, there are plenty of good authors who have write about it, and (again) can do a better job describing it than me. But feel free to ask and I shall try my best.
You have impingement so something is getting squeezed, or ending up in the wrong spot, right? well with DB/KB your arms/shoulders should move in a way that won’t cause any pain, hence no impingement.
This is only my opinion, I am not a doctor.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Could you elaborate a bit more on rowing vs pulldowns? I’ve only been doing pulldowns for a few weeks at this point. It’s about the only lat-focused exercise I’ve found that doesn’t require me to move a bunch of equipment, so I’m not too keen on dropping it. Augmenting it with something (e.g., machine rows, cable rows) I’d be ok with.[/quote]
Well you see pressing (or most pressing) variations put the shoulder/gleno-humeral joint in a internal rotation of the shoulder joint/capsule. And guess what so does the pulldown/pull up. So in the last training schedule that you listed, you had a lot of internal rotation of the shoulder joint, or at least that is what I saw. And all of those pull aparts that you are doing should be bring your shoulder back into “aliment” hence working your posterior delts, mid/lower trap, rhomboids, etc. Generally speaking I have not come across anybody that can engage/fire/activate their posterior delts (much if at all) with pressing movements and or pulldowns. Which rowing on the other hand has you shoulders in external rotation, most of the time, thus helping counteract the internal rotation at the shoulder joint. Its more complex than that and I could try to explain more, but I know I would be a retard at it.
I always like to ask what the persons goal is, for you it is simple body recomposition, for which you don’t need pulldowns for, anyone with a thick back had to row for it, or so I believe.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
I swear I’m not trying to be difficult.[/quote]
Actually your not be difficult,
If I had write you something it would be
Day 1
A1)Glute ham raise or something to work to hammies 3x8-10
A2)inverted row 4x8
B1)Front squat 3x5; warm up at least 3 sets of 10 reps and then your 3 work sets
B2)1 arm DB/KB floor press 3x6/side
C1)Half kneeling cable external rotation 3x12
C2)reverse crunch 3x8
D1)side bridge 3x15s/side
D2)farmers walk 3x100 meters/yards seconds
Day 2
Some conditioning work
Day 3
A1)Snatch grip Deadlift from knees 3x8
A2)1 leg feet elevated push ups 3x5/side
B1)reverse lunge 3x10/side
B2)Half kneeling face pull 3x15
C1)plank 3x30s
C2)biceps curls 3x12 use ez bar or DBs
D1)Half kneeling Chop 3x10/side
D2)bear crawl 3x50 meters/yards
Day 4
Conditioning
Day 5
A1)Barbell Glute bridges 3x8 (I know how you feel about them)
A2)Half kneeling cable row 3x10
B1)Rear Foot Elevated Split Squat 3x10/side
B2)Incline push ups 3x10
C1)Prone “Y’s” off incline bench 3x8/side
C2)triceps pushdowns 3x10
D1)reverse crunch 3x8
D2)plank 3x30s
D3)farmers walk 3x60 seconds
Day 6 conditioning
Day 7 recovery/active rest?
Stay strong
[quote]young n wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]young n wrote:
I think a 3 day 5/3/1 variation with some focus on conditioning for fat loss would be nice,[/quote]
Congrats at being the first person in my entire life to suggest a fat loss routine to me, lol.[/quote]
Don’t know if serious.[/quote]
I actually was. I’ve heard “why don’t you feed this kid some food” for years.
But now that I’ve read your entire response, it sounds like you’ve misconstrued my current goals a bit.
My goals aren’t really body-composition. I suppose “look good at the pool” usually means that, but in my case… bigger arms, bigger shoulders, more width, while still keeping visible abs.
So, my current training focus is pretty much just that. Volume-based pulldowns for lat width, slightly less volume BTN press for shoulders and tricep size, a bit more delt work, bicep curls, thoracic mobility work + minimal horizontal pressing + specific rear delt/mid-trap work to adjust wake and sleep posture a bit (which seems to be the primary thing sustaining the pain/injury/inflammation). And squats and deads for their general mass building benefits to the legs and back.
Diet-wise, continue to push the weight and muscle gain for a few more weeks, and then do a short 4-week shift to lean up just a touch. So, sure, recomposition goals at that point, but not right now.
[quote][quote]LoRez wrote:
Could you explain the reasoning?[/quote]
Well you have pissed off shoulders the last thing you want to do is tell your shoulders what to do, force them to move a certain way, which is what happens with a barbell, the shoulders, humerus and what not can only move in a certain plane whereas with a dumbbell or kettlebell the shoulders have more “freedom” even if it is only a minor difference. The last thing you want to do to someone when they are pissed is give them orders/ tell them stuff. You would rather give them there space to calm down or figure stuff out (joint/structural integrity while the human body, (which by the way is very good at figuring out stuff) figures out how to move this weight (DB/KB) out of the way in a safe manner, err actually move it out of the way in a pain free way, which in turn usually is in a safe manner). Hope that makes sense, there are plenty of good authors who have write about it, and (again) can do a better job describing it than me. But feel free to ask and I shall try my best.
You have impingement so something is getting squeezed, or ending up in the wrong spot, right? well with DB/KB your arms/shoulders should move in a way that won’t cause any pain, hence no impingement.
This is only my opinion, I am not a doctor. [/quote]
As much as I like that explanation, the reality is that if I just let my shoulders follow their own path, my tendons get impinged. The hard retraction has been the only way to reduce/avoid that.
This is part of the reason why I’ve been putting work into the postural side of things, so that the natural path is NOT to impinge the tendons.
If I had a safe way to bring a pair of dumbbells into position without 1) racking them, or 2) bringing them in front of my head, I’d consider it.
The reason I unrack/rerack the BTN press how I do is to avoid any positions that cause shoulder pain. Otherwise I’d just unrack at proper height and press/jerk it up before going behind the neck. Frontal plane causes no pain, but the closer I get to scapular plane, the higher my risk for impingement pain.
[quote][quote]LoRez wrote:
Could you elaborate a bit more on rowing vs pulldowns? I’ve only been doing pulldowns for a few weeks at this point. It’s about the only lat-focused exercise I’ve found that doesn’t require me to move a bunch of equipment, so I’m not too keen on dropping it. Augmenting it with something (e.g., machine rows, cable rows) I’d be ok with.[/quote]
Well you see pressing (or most pressing) variations put the shoulder/gleno-humeral joint in a internal rotation of the shoulder joint/capsule. And guess what so does the pulldown/pull up. So in the last training schedule that you listed, you had a lot of internal rotation of the shoulder joint, or at least that is what I saw. And all of those pull aparts that you are doing should be bring your shoulder back into “aliment” hence working your posterior delts, mid/lower trap, rhomboids, etc. Generally speaking I have not come across anybody that can engage/fire/activate their posterior delts (much if at all) with pressing movements and or pulldowns.[/quote]
No? I’ve found medium-wide or wide grip pulldowns, leaning back, pulled to the upper sternum activates the posterior delts quite a bit.
With the supinated grip I use on the pulldowns, they actually externally rotate the shoulders. But I get what you’re saying here.
I do appreciate the time you took to write that up, but I won’t be doing that.
I figured I’d address this part on its own. Apologies in advance for any sarcasm.
[quote]young n wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
- Why 5/3/1?
My objections to 5/3/1 at this point are…
2. I don’t believe I’ve truly milked the progress of out simple linear progression.
3. I also don’t think 5/3/1 lends itself to monitoring progress very well in any unit smaller than a 4 week cycle.
4. Mainly you don’t get a good workout-to-workout measure of comparison. With a linear progression system and the layer/nemesis systems, you can compare the last X workouts and measure your rate of progress.[/quote]
- Because 5/3/1 is simple, I could write you something but . . . I think most men want to figure stuff out by themselves.
You can honestly run 5/3/1 for a long time. I mean its pretty simple, Coach Thibs, in the Indio project programs; has a overhead pattern (pressing), bench day, squat, and deadlift (pulling) day, In HP Mass there was some form of squating, pulling/deadlifting, and pressing, even the layer system has prressing, squating and pulling in it, Jim Wendler has an overhead, bench, squat, and deadlift day, Dan John uses the 5 human movements, push, pull, squat, hinge, carry (pressing, pulling, sqating, deadlifting movements.
Disclaimer I do not know these coaches and this is only my opinion, neither am I trying to group these coaches together, other than that they are some very accomplished coaches.
I got sidetracked but
You asked why 5/3/1? because I like the core principles behind it. start light, and get better each week.[/quote]
Greyskull LP is even simpler. Squat, bench, press, and deadlift, starting light and get better each session. I wrote up how it works a few posts back.
[quote]2. I’m going to side track again here, a few pages back some members made comments stating that you are not as strong as you could have been, and that you were “pussyfooting” around and could have made more/better progress up to this point than you currently have.
(please do correct me here if I am way off)[/quote]
Wasn’t me.
Actually… no. That’s not linear progression.
Linear progression involves, well, linearly progressing workout to workout. Not adjusting volumes and intensities workout-to-workout using wave-based periodization as 5/3/1 does.
[quote]3. I don’t think I understand that statement. But let me just say that you don’t have to change your core lifts every month/4 weeks.
Lets get on the same page about that?[/quote]
I didn’t realize we were on a different page about it?
…
Which… is why I look at the big picture… and progress over time…
But here’s what I meant by being able to compare workout to workout progress.
With the layer system (Christian Thibeaudau program, if you didn’t catch that), and Nemesis (Nick Horton, weightlifting coach, ideas very heavily borrowed from the Bulgarian weightlifting methods) progress is pretty easy to track. Every session begins with a ramp to a daily training max. This is the prime indicator of progress. And then some work is done at some percentage of that training max. This is mostly what drives up the training max over time.
So, if, say… over a month time…
(training maxes)
Workout 1: 3RM of 155
Workout 2: 3RM of 145
Workout 3: 3RM of 155
Workout 4: 3RM of 165
Workout 5: 3RM of 170
Workout 6: 3RM of 160
Workout 7: 3RM of 165
Workout 8: 3RM of 165
Comparing workout-to-workout, you can see a trend of constantly improving numbers. Sometimes it goes up, sometimes down, but you can see the trend and compare.
Now, for something that’s more of a pure linear progression, like Greyskull LP that finishes with an AMRAP set every session…
Workout 1: 155 x 3 x 5 (5RM ~155)
Workout 2: 157.5 x 3 x 5 (5RM ~157.5)
Workout 3: 160 x 3 x 5 (5RM ~160)
Workout 4: 162.5 x 3 x 5 (5RM ~162.5)
Workout 5: 165 x 5, 5, 4 (5RM ~163)
Workout 6: 145 x 5, 5, 9 (5RM ~162)
Workout 7: 147.5 x 5, 5, 9 (5RM ~165)
Workout 8: 150 x 5, 5, 8 (5RM ~168)
So, again, you can compare workout to workout pretty easily and see the trends.
On the other hand, with 5/3/1, the loading and intensity varies week-to-week, so trying to determine how well you’re progressing mid-cycle is, well, difficult. You can compare your training maxes over time, but, again, that’s very very different than what I just described.
See what I mean now?
[quote]LoRez wrote:
My goals aren’t really body-composition. I suppose “look good at the pool” usually means that, but in my case… bigger arms, bigger shoulders, more width, while still keeping visible abs.[/quote]
Hmm, I guess thats what body recomposition was (gain lean mass, reduce bodyfat), guess I’m out of touch with the lingo.
[quote]LoRez wrote:So, my current training focus is pretty much just that. Volume-based pulldowns for lat width, slightly less volume BTN press for shoulders and tricep size, a bit more delt work, bicep curls, thoracic mobility work + minimal horizontal pressing + specific rear delt/mid-trap work to adjust wake and sleep posture a bit (which seems to be the primary thing sustaining the pain/injury/inflammation). And squats and deads for their general mass building benefits to the legs and back.
Diet-wise, continue to push the weight and muscle gain for a few more weeks, and then do a short 4-week shift to lean up just a touch. So, sure, recomposition goals at that point, but not right now.
[quote][quote]LoRez wrote:
Could you explain the reasoning?[/quote]
Well you have pissed off shoulders the last thing you want to do is tell your shoulders what to do, force them to move a certain way, which is what happens with a barbell, the shoulders, humerus and what not can only move in a certain plane whereas with a dumbbell or kettlebell the shoulders have more “freedom” even if it is only a minor difference. The last thing you want to do to someone when they are pissed is give them orders/ tell them stuff. You would rather give them there space to calm down or figure stuff out (joint/structural integrity while the human body, (which by the way is very good at figuring out stuff) figures out how to move this weight (DB/KB) out of the way in a safe manner, err actually move it out of the way in a pain free way, which in turn usually is in a safe manner). Hope that makes sense, there are plenty of good authors who have write about it, and (again) can do a better job describing it than me. But feel free to ask and I shall try my best.
You have impingement so something is getting squeezed, or ending up in the wrong spot, right? well with DB/KB your arms/shoulders should move in a way that won’t cause any pain, hence no impingement.
This is only my opinion, I am not a doctor. [/quote]
As much as I like that explanation, the reality is that if I just let my shoulders follow their own path, my tendons get impinged. The hard retraction has been the only way to reduce/avoid that.
This is part of the reason why I’ve been putting work into the postural side of things, so that the natural path is NOT to impinge the tendons.
If I had a safe way to bring a pair of dumbbells into position without 1) racking them, or 2) bringing them in front of my head, I’d consider it.
The reason I unrack/rerack the BTN press how I do is to avoid any positions that cause shoulder pain. Otherwise I’d just unrack at proper height and press/jerk it up before going behind the neck. Frontal plane causes no pain, but the closer I get to scapular plane, the higher my risk for impingement pain.
[quote][quote]LoRez wrote:
Could you elaborate a bit more on rowing vs pulldowns? I’ve only been doing pulldowns for a few weeks at this point. It’s about the only lat-focused exercise I’ve found that doesn’t require me to move a bunch of equipment, so I’m not too keen on dropping it. Augmenting it with something (e.g., machine rows, cable rows) I’d be ok with.[/quote]
Well you see pressing (or most pressing) variations put the shoulder/gleno-humeral joint in a internal rotation of the shoulder joint/capsule. And guess what so does the pulldown/pull up. So in the last training schedule that you listed, you had a lot of internal rotation of the shoulder joint, or at least that is what I saw. And all of those pull aparts that you are doing should be bring your shoulder back into “aliment” hence working your posterior delts, mid/lower trap, rhomboids, etc. Generally speaking I have not come across anybody that can engage/fire/activate their posterior delts (much if at all) with pressing movements and or pulldowns.[/quote]
No? I’ve found medium-wide or wide grip pulldowns, leaning back, pulled to the upper sternum activates the posterior delts quite a bit.
With the supinated grip I use on the pulldowns, they actually externally rotate the shoulders. But I get what you’re saying here.
I do appreciate the time you took to write that up, but I won’t be doing that.[/quote]
Well good luck with your goals, I’ll be following.
Stay strong
[quote]LoRez wrote:
I figured I’d address this part on its own. Apologies in advance for any sarcasm.
[quote]young n wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
- Why 5/3/1?
My objections to 5/3/1 at this point are…
2. I don’t believe I’ve truly milked the progress of out simple linear progression.
3. I also don’t think 5/3/1 lends itself to monitoring progress very well in any unit smaller than a 4 week cycle.
4. Mainly you don’t get a good workout-to-workout measure of comparison. With a linear progression system and the layer/nemesis systems, you can compare the last X workouts and measure your rate of progress.[/quote]
- Because 5/3/1 is simple, I could write you something but . . . I think most men want to figure stuff out by themselves.
You can honestly run 5/3/1 for a long time. I mean its pretty simple, Coach Thibs, in the Indio project programs; has a overhead pattern (pressing), bench day, squat, and deadlift (pulling) day, In HP Mass there was some form of squating, pulling/deadlifting, and pressing, even the layer system has prressing, squating and pulling in it, Jim Wendler has an overhead, bench, squat, and deadlift day, Dan John uses the 5 human movements, push, pull, squat, hinge, carry (pressing, pulling, sqating, deadlifting movements.
Disclaimer I do not know these coaches and this is only my opinion, neither am I trying to group these coaches together, other than that they are some very accomplished coaches.
I got sidetracked but
You asked why 5/3/1? because I like the core principles behind it. start light, and get better each week.[/quote]
Greyskull LP is even simpler. Squat, bench, press, and deadlift, starting light and get better each session. I wrote up how it works a few posts back.
[quote]2. I’m going to side track again here, a few pages back some members made comments stating that you are not as strong as you could have been, and that you were “pussyfooting” around and could have made more/better progress up to this point than you currently have.
(please do correct me here if I am way off)[/quote]
Wasn’t me.
Actually… no. That’s not linear progression.
Linear progression involves, well, linearly progressing workout to workout. Not adjusting volumes and intensities workout-to-workout using wave-based periodization as 5/3/1 does.
[quote]3. I don’t think I understand that statement. But let me just say that you don’t have to change your core lifts every month/4 weeks.
Lets get on the same page about that?[/quote]
I didn’t realize we were on a different page about it?
…
Which… is why I look at the big picture… and progress over time…
But here’s what I meant by being able to compare workout to workout progress.
With the layer system (Christian Thibeaudau program, if you didn’t catch that), and Nemesis (Nick Horton, weightlifting coach, ideas very heavily borrowed from the Bulgarian weightlifting methods) progress is pretty easy to track. Every session begins with a ramp to a daily training max. This is the prime indicator of progress. And then some work is done at some percentage of that training max. This is mostly what drives up the training max over time.
So, if, say… over a month time…
(training maxes)
Workout 1: 3RM of 155
Workout 2: 3RM of 145
Workout 3: 3RM of 155
Workout 4: 3RM of 165
Workout 5: 3RM of 170
Workout 6: 3RM of 160
Workout 7: 3RM of 165
Workout 8: 3RM of 165
Comparing workout-to-workout, you can see a trend of constantly improving numbers. Sometimes it goes up, sometimes down, but you can see the trend and compare.
Now, for something that’s more of a pure linear progression, like Greyskull LP that finishes with an AMRAP set every session…
Workout 1: 155 x 3 x 5 (5RM ~155)
Workout 2: 157.5 x 3 x 5 (5RM ~157.5)
Workout 3: 160 x 3 x 5 (5RM ~160)
Workout 4: 162.5 x 3 x 5 (5RM ~162.5)
Workout 5: 165 x 5, 5, 4 (5RM ~163)
Workout 6: 145 x 5, 5, 9 (5RM ~162)
Workout 7: 147.5 x 5, 5, 9 (5RM ~165)
Workout 8: 150 x 5, 5, 8 (5RM ~168)
So, again, you can compare workout to workout pretty easily and see the trends.
On the other hand, with 5/3/1, the loading and intensity varies week-to-week, so trying to determine how well you’re progressing mid-cycle is, well, difficult. You can compare your training maxes over time, but, again, that’s very very different than what I just described.
See what I mean now?[/quote]
Different ways to skin a cat.
You do what works for you.
Stay strong
[quote]young n wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
My goals aren’t really body-composition. I suppose “look good at the pool” usually means that, but in my case… bigger arms, bigger shoulders, more width, while still keeping visible abs.[/quote]
Hmm, I guess thats what body recomposition was (gain lean mass, reduce bodyfat), guess I’m out of touch with the lingo.[/quote]
I guess the definitions I’ve used and I’m familiar with:
“bulk” : a focus on gaining muscle and strength while on a dietary surplus, with an expectation of some fat gain; total bodyweight goes up
“cut” : a focus on losing fat while on a dietary deficit, with an expectation of possible strength and size loss; total bodyweight goes down
“recomp” : an allegedly nearly impossible feat where you try to maintain your current body weight while gaining muscle and losing fat; bodyweight stays the same
So, currently, I’m trying to “bulk”, with an emphasis on certain parts of my upper body.
And then I will attempt a “recomp”. I’d like to stay away from the full metabolic shift that comes with a “cut”.
I didn’t mean to be so dismissive. There was definitely a misunderstanding with respect to my current goals, and that’s certainly part of it. Plus, I’m a bit stubborn on top of it.
With the program you proposed, I didn’t see how that really addressed my short term or long term goals, and included a bunch of movements that, frankly, seemed very extraneous.
As you noticed when looking at that BTN press video, there are a number of postural issues I have. None are excessive, but they do exist. I actually wouldn’t say they’re compensations as much as just flaws with my normal posture.
Now, I see in the proposed program you included several movements to address both static and dynamic core stability, as well as a few to address strengthening the external rotators.
But at the same time, the movement selection looks very “complex for the sake of being complex”, while de-emphasizing the main mass and strength building movements. E.g., something that makes you feel like you’re doing something, but not actually accomplishing much toward actual goals.
If I may… a few questions:
Why “inverted row” instead of “cable row”, “bent-row”, “pendlay row”, “chest-supported row”?
Why “half-kneeling cable external rotation” instead of “prone db external rotation on an incline bench” or even “cuban presses”?
Why “plank” at all? I never saw the point of them. I can hold planks for minutes at a time.
Why not “KB/DB windmills”, or even “TGUs”?
It just seems like an excessive focus on core work… flexion, extension, rotation, anti-rotation… and minimal focus on any real strength, mass or aesthetic goal. Biceps and triceps are addressed, sure. Shoulders and lats are not. Even legs and most of the back is fairly neglected.
I dunno. Am I missing something?
Concentration curls, right-arm only, pre-exhaust
10 x 10, 15 x 10, 20 x 10 – something like that.
For whatever reason, I can do a full ROM concentration curl with my right arm without my elbow hurting. Can’t do that standing, so there must be something to applying pressure to the back of my elbow. Either way, this was a stupid way to pre-exhaust, completely neglecting my left arm. Just experimenting with the movement, mainly.
Lat pull downs (supinated, slightly narrower than shoulder, upright torso, arms in front of body, pull to chin height)
115 x 7 x 10
100 x 3 x 10
Last 4 sets superset with:
Rear Delt Flyes
40 x 20 (I thought it was 45)
45 x 3 x 20
After this workout, my [pumped] rear delts actually overshadowed the size of my [unpumped] front delts. That was kind of neat and weird.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
. . . while de-emphasizing the main mass and strength building movements. E.g., something that makes you feel like you’re doing something, but not actually accomplishing much toward actual goals.[/quote]
Wow. Not to sound like a retard but have you tried it? I don’t think anybody should knock anything until they have tried it, no?
[quote]LoRez wrote:If I may… a few questions:
Why “inverted row” instead of “cable row”, “bent-row”, “pendlay row”, “chest-supported row”?[/quote]
I rather get the same benefits form bodyweight movements before having to add external resistance, get more done with less, right?
Again no barbells or anything that has your arms, shoulders in a fixed position.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Why “half-kneeling cable external rotation” instead of “prone db external rotation on an incline bench” or even “cuban presses”?[/quote]
From experience people cheat less on these than cuban presses. And because not enough people spend enough time in the half kneeling position. Correct me if I’m wrong but you said something about sitting at a desk? Half kneeling is an excellent cure for that.
Makes me wonder how much your hanging out on your passive restraints. Are your planks like the RKC hardstlye planks?
Not sure how you want me to repsond to that.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
real strength, mass or aesthetic goal. Biceps and triceps are addressed, sure.[/quote]
I would not even say that, unless your talking about the biceps and triceps being stimulated via the pushing and pulling movements.
You do know that the delts (anterior) get worked via pushing movements, right? and why no direct overhead pressing for you because of your shour issue.
The lats do grow with rows, just tweak angle of your arm relative to your torso to find your mind muscle connection.
[quote]LoRez wrote:Even legs and most of the back is fairly neglected.
[/quote]
Help me see that?
[quote]young n wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:If I may… a few questions:
Why “inverted row” instead of “cable row”, “bent-row”, “pendlay row”, “chest-supported row”?[/quote]
I rather get the same benefits form bodyweight movements before having to add external resistance, get more done with less, right?
Again no barbells or anything that has your arms, shoulders in a fixed position.[/quote]
And yet the inverted row has your arms in a fixed position. Unless you specifically meant using rings or TRX (you didn’t mention).
I agree in principle with the idea of “if you can get the same benefits from bodyweight without adding external resistance”, but I can bang out far more than 8 of these at a time. If you can do more than 30+ reps with something, why artificially restrict it to 4x8?
The reason I asked about the other movements is because they can be progressively loaded very easily.
[quote][quote]LoRez wrote:
Why “half-kneeling cable external rotation” instead of “prone db external rotation on an incline bench” or even “cuban presses”?[/quote]
From experience people cheat less on these than cuban presses. And because not enough people spend enough time in the half kneeling position. Correct me if I’m wrong but you said something about sitting at a desk? Half kneeling is an excellent cure for that.[/quote]
That seems like a weird justification. I mean, standing one-foot on a bosu ball will definitely help with balance, but that doesn’t mean trying to do DB push presses while doing that adds additional benefit. To me, that’s what it sounds like you’re trying to do here… to modify a movement, increasing the complexity in the pursuit of multiple goals, but not really adequately achieve any of them.
Makes me wonder how much your hanging out on your passive restraints. Are your planks like the RKC hardstlye planks?[/quote]
No, but you didn’t specify that.
Not sure how you want me to respond to that.[/quote]
It was a genuine question. A large number of the movements in the proposed program seemed to be targeting strength and stability through the core.
In my own experience, I’ve found I found windmills, as well as side and bent presses (but I didn’t include these due to my current shoulder issues) to be excellent for that goal. Likewise for the “around the world” and “figure 8” drills with a kettlebell, around and through the legs, respectively.
Considering you seemed to be well versed in bodyweight and kettlebell movements (based on reading your dialogue with furo), it surprised me you didn’t include these movements.
Just for reference, I spent a long time doing bodyweight drills from The Naked Warror, and KB stuff from RKC and later ETK… and then later spent a few months practicing yoga… so a lot of planks and unilateral body movements don’t really seem to be a big deal to me. Stuff like loaded pistol squats and one-arm pushups really aren’t a challenge.
[quote]young n wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
real strength, mass or aesthetic goal. Biceps and triceps are addressed, sure.[/quote]
I would not even say that, unless your talking about the biceps and triceps being stimulated via the pushing and pulling movements.[/quote]
Well, I was referring to the fact that, in addition to pushing and pulling movements, you included tricep pushdowns and ez-bar curls.
You do know that the delts (anterior) get worked via pushing movements, right? and why no direct overhead pressing for you because of your shour issue.
The lats do grow with rows, just tweak angle of your arm relative to your torso to find your mind muscle connection.[/quote]
I do, but I also know that progress comes through progressive resistance. There’s not much volume in the one loaded pressing movement (the one-arm DB/KB press), and everything else is bodyweight (two pushup variants). Considering that, even with my shoulder injury, I can do 50 nonstop pushups, chest-to-ground, there’s inadequate volume at intensity to really do anything for the anterior delts.
And nothing for the lateral delts at all. There are face pulls for rear delts.
With respect to the lats you can tweak form on a few of the movements (chop, cable row), but by the time you had adequate resistance, the “half-kneel” would be the limiting factor… not the lats.
So no, the lats are not really addressed.
[quote][quote]LoRez wrote:Even legs and most of the back is fairly neglected.
[/quote]
Help me see that?[/quote]
Legs:
- Front squats is the only real quad movement, and it’s just once a week, when for strength, mass or even conditioning purposes it should be programmed more frequently.
- With bulgarian split-squats/rear-elevated split squats, the failure point will, again, be the balance, not the legs. This isn’t enough leg stimulation on its own for strength or mass purposes.
- If the hip thrusts were replaced with RDLs, this would make more sense.
Back:
- Snatch grip rack pulls (or deadlifts from the hang, can’t tell how you meant them) is a great movement for the upper back, midback, and erectors… however, this is a movement that usually responds better to heavier loading than sets of 8. 6x4 would make much more sense.
- There are no other loaded back movements where the back is doing the majority of the work. Again, inverted rows don’t provide enough resistance, and the half-kneeling movements are limited by balance considerations… so the back stimulation is limited. Basically, they can neither be loaded heavy (one form of progressive resistance), nor be brought near metabolic failure (another form).
- Lats were addressed above.